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Theme Changer

 Topic: 72 virgins for martydom ?

 (Read 17824 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • 72 virgins for martydom ?
     OP - September 30, 2011, 04:53 PM

    one of my muzzy mates told me that there isn't any islamic doctrines in quran/hadith stating martyrs get 72 virgins, but that it's just nonsense the mullahs innovated to entice red blood young men into jihad/islamic militancy/carrying out suicide bombings.

    is he true, or is there some dogma stating you get your 72 virgins? and where so in quran/hadith?



    maybe u just get one 72 year old virgin ?  dance

  • Re: 72 virgins for martydom ?
     Reply #1 - September 30, 2011, 04:56 PM

    Enjoy reading this:

    http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/60188/72%20virgins
  • Re: 72 virgins for martydom ?
     Reply #2 - September 30, 2011, 05:20 PM

    Quote
    One of the best things that people long for in the Hereafter is, for men, the women of Paradise, namely al-hoor al-‘iyn, and for women there is an equivalent delight. By His great wisdom, Allaah has not mentioned what the women will have as the equivalent of al-hoor al-‘iyn for men, and that is due to modesty and shyness.


    Love that.



    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: 72 virgins for martydom ?
     Reply #3 - September 30, 2011, 05:21 PM


    Allah is shy   wacko

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: 72 virgins for martydom ?
     Reply #4 - September 30, 2011, 05:41 PM

     Cheesy

    I think its supposed to mean shyness and modesty of  Muslimah
  • Re: 72 virgins for martydom ?
     Reply #5 - September 30, 2011, 05:59 PM

    aphrodie that link was a good chuckle, but i dont see how it answers the '72 virgins' question
  • Re: 72 virgins for martydom ?
     Reply #6 - September 30, 2011, 06:48 PM

    There are various references in the Qur'an to the Hooris that one gets to enjoy in Jannah - the number "72" is not mentioned in the Qur'an - it is one of a variety of numbers mentioned in the Hadith.
    http://wikiislam.net/wiki/72_Virgins
  • Re: 72 virgins for martydom ?
     Reply #7 - October 01, 2011, 02:18 AM

    aphrodie that link was a good chuckle, but i dont see how it answers the '72 virgins' question


    You must be blind or trolling.

    Quote
    "And (there will be) Hoor (fair females) with wide lovely eyes (as wives for Al-Muttaqoon – the pious).

    23. Like unto preserved pearls”

    [al-Waaqi’ah 56:22, 23]

    “Verily, We have created them (maidens) of special creation.

    36. And made them virgins.

    37. Loving (their husbands only), (and) of equal age”

    [al-Waaqi’ah 56:35-37]

    “Therein (Gardens) will be Khairaatun‑Hisaan [fair (wives) good and beautiful]”

    [al-Rahmaan 55:70]


    Those are the Quranic verses regarding the 72 virgins. The rest is the interpretation of those verses and hadith by sunni scholars who are accepted by all if not most sunni muslims.
  • Re: 72 virgins for martydom ?
     Reply #8 - October 02, 2011, 12:57 PM

    I’ll be honest with you: I’d much rather prefer 17 sluts now than 72 virgins in the hereafter!


  • Re: 72 virgins for martydom ?
     Reply #9 - October 02, 2011, 07:40 PM

    ok aphrodite that answers the virgins part, but where does the figure of 72 come from?
  • Re: 72 virgins for martydom ?
     Reply #10 - October 02, 2011, 10:59 PM

    There are various references in the Qur'an to the Hooris that one gets to enjoy in Jannah - the number "72" is not mentioned in the Qur'an - it is one of a variety of numbers mentioned in the Hadith.
    http://wikiislam.net/wiki/72_Virgins


    Learn to read please  Smiley
  • Re: 72 virgins for martydom ?
     Reply #11 - October 02, 2011, 11:04 PM

    Islam is full of numbers -

    think the Prophet suffered from a lot of idiosyncrasies, to put it mildly  - perhaps a bit of OCD too.

    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Re: 72 virgins for martydom ?
     Reply #12 - October 03, 2011, 12:24 AM

    ok aphrodite that answers the virgins part, but where does the figure of 72 come from?

    This should explain it. Cheesy

  • Re: 72 virgins for martydom ?
     Reply #13 - November 25, 2011, 08:03 AM

    Bill Maher's theory is that it stems from the Arabs being a bartering culture........

    I'll become a martyr for 100 virgins.

    Allah: I'll give you 50 virgins.

    75 virgins.

    Allah: 70 virgins and a eternal supply of musk.

    72, and throw in a green silk robe.

    Allah: ok  deal.

    The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
    superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
    is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
    -Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

     "Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags."  -Ibl
  • Re: 72 virgins for martydom ?
     Reply #14 - November 25, 2011, 08:19 AM

    There is no way I would consider doing anything for anything less than 500 virgins , and tbh I would much rather have 5 pornstars
  • Re: 72 virgins for martydom ?
     Reply #15 - November 27, 2011, 12:21 PM

    Bill Maher's theory is that it stems from the Arabs being a bartering culture........

    I'll become a martyr for 100 virgins.

    Allah: I'll give you 50 virgins.

    75 virgins.

    Allah: 70 virgins and a eternal supply of musk.

    72, and throw in a green silk robe.

    Allah: ok  deal.


     Cheesy

    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • Re: 72 virgins for martydom ?
     Reply #16 - November 29, 2011, 04:52 PM

    Quote from: "Aphrodite"
    Those are the Quranic verses regarding the 72 virgins. The rest is the interpretation of those verses and hadith by sunni scholars who are accepted by all if not most sunni muslims.


    So "most sunni muslims" are NOT constantly "reinterpreting" the Qur'an to their own liking? They blindly accept the centuries-old rulings of long-dead jurists?

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: 72 virgins for martydom ?
     Reply #17 - November 29, 2011, 05:49 PM

    MORE on "moderate Muslims"

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: 72 virgins for martydom ?
     Reply #18 - December 05, 2011, 11:15 AM

    Bill Maher's theory is that it stems from the Arabs being a bartering culture........

    I'll become a martyr for 100 virgins.

    Allah: I'll give you 50 virgins.

    75 virgins.

    Allah: 70 virgins and a eternal supply of musk.

    72, and throw in a green silk robe.

    Allah: ok  deal.


     Cheesy

    BTW love your DP, isn't that some hindu godess?  grin12
  • Re: 72 virgins for martydom ?
     Reply #19 - December 05, 2011, 12:08 PM

    Religious people talk about Morality and that kind of shit but in the end what is so moral about you having to fuck 72 Virgins?Huh? I don't see it in this case.

    Looks like a double standard, you can't fuck too much on earth but when u get to heaven u will fuck the living paradise out of those virgins, and Virgins, why virgins?? what is so special about them Huh?

    If Morality was absolute and Universal it would apply even in the other world.


  • Re: 72 virgins for martydom ?
     Reply #20 - December 05, 2011, 10:33 PM

    ^ Man, you can have rivers of WINE in Islamic Heaven! Huh?

  • Re: 72 virgins for martydom ?
     Reply #21 - December 05, 2011, 11:50 PM

    Its all about sex. Thats how you understand Islam.

    "Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all
            Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

    - John Keats
  • Re: 72 virgins for martydom ?
     Reply #22 - December 06, 2011, 01:40 AM

    Cheesy

    BTW love your DP, isn't that some hindu godess?  grin12


    Its Kali.....but I'm using the iconography out of its original context, but she is one of the destroyers of 'unreality' and of liberation or enlightenment , so I figure it fits in my own little way

    The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
    superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
    is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
    -Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

     "Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags."  -Ibl
  • Re: 72 virgins for martydom ?
     Reply #23 - January 04, 2012, 03:51 PM

    Isn't houri a mistranslation of grapes?  72 grapes OK?

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Re: 72 virgins for martydom ?
     Reply #24 - January 04, 2012, 08:16 PM

    Raisins, but that’s disputed.

  • Re: 72 virgins for martydom ?
     Reply #25 - January 04, 2012, 08:31 PM

    I thought it had been harrumphed, not actually disputed!

    Quote
    Starting from those passages that are unclear to the Western commentators, the method runs as follows. First check if there is a plausible explanation in Tabarī that the Western commentators overlooked. If not, then check whether the Lisān records a meaning unknown to Tabarī and his earlier sources. If this turns up nothing, check if the Arabic expression has a homonymous root in Syriac with a different meaning which fits the context. In many cases, Luxenberg found that the Syriac word with its meaning makes more sense. It is to be noted, that these first steps of the heuristic do not emend the consonantal text of the Cairene edition of the Qur’ān.

    [13] If these steps do not avail, then see if changing one or more diacritical marks results in an Arabic expression that makes more sense. Luxenberg found that many cases are shown to be misreadings of one consonant for another. If not, then change the diacritical point(s) and then check if there is a homonymous Syriac root with a plausible meaning.

    [14] If there is still no solution, check if the Arabic is a calque of a Syriac expression. Calques are of two kinds: morphological and semantic. A morphological calque is a borrowing that preserves the structure of the source word but uses the morphemes of the target language. For example, German Fernsehen is just the morphemes tele and visio of English “television” translated into their German equivalents. A semantic calque assigns the borrowed meaning to a word that did not have the meaning previously, but which is otherwise synonymous with the source word.

    [15] In section four, Luxenberg presents the development of the Arabic script and its central importance to the transmission history of the Qur’ān. He demonstrates that there were originally only six letters to distinguish some twenty-six sounds. The letters were gradually distinguished by points written above or below each letter. The Arabic alphabet used in the Qur’ān began as a shorthand, a mnemonic device not intended as a complete key to the sounds of the language. Luxenberg concludes that the transmission of the text from Muhammad was not likely an oral transmission by memory, contrary to one dominant claim of Islamic tradition.


    = raisins

    http://syrcom.cua.edu/Hugoye/Vol6No1/HV6N1PRPhenixHorn.html

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Re: 72 virgins for martydom ?
     Reply #26 - January 26, 2012, 04:28 PM

    Here, it is most brilliantly explained by Yusuf "Cowboy" Estes and some other bloke. (don't they seem to be sitting a little bit too close to each other? How much more until it's haram?)  Cheesy

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVrproMr-t8&feature=related

    It reminds me of one of stopspamming1's most recent videos regarding conceptualization. As I like to say "stick to the topic, not the word" meaning, instead of addressing how most depictions of paradise were male oriented he focused on "paradise is not only for men"
  • Re: 72 virgins for martydom ?
     Reply #27 - January 27, 2012, 01:37 PM

    Have Luxenburg and others constructed a corrected version of the Koran?

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Re: 72 virgins for martydom ?
     Reply #28 - July 23, 2012, 12:59 PM

    one of my muzzy mates told me that there isn't any islamic doctrines in quran/hadith stating martyrs get 72 virgins, but that it's just nonsense the mullahs innovated to entice red blood young men into jihad/islamic militancy/carrying out suicide bombings.

    is he true, or is there some dogma stating you get your 72 virgins? and where so in quran/hadith?



    maybe u just get one 72 year old virgin ?  dance




    I think maybe you are looking for this- http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/25843,
  • Re: 72 virgins for martydom ?
     Reply #29 - November 29, 2012, 12:07 AM

    You need to invest some time in to research. According to the history; this concept (concerning number, to which sex it applied etc) was not established until some few hundred years after the death of Muhammad.
    It is amusing, however, to see how those who wish to resort to prevaricated statements in relation to Islam consistently refer to this notion. It indicates a few things: primarily, such individuals have failed to independently research, and clearly have to rely on others for their "information". It is disappointing (but typical) to see those individuals have failed to adhere to the Islamic principle of gaining knowledge - "it is obligatory to gain knowledge" or "an hours contemplation is better than a years worship". Secondly, they partake in a great injustice against what the facts stipulate. Thirdly, you slander the genuine teachings of Muhammad as a result.

    This does not apply simply to this topic but to several. I would suggest you look beyond the mass media for your information, embrace the idea "knowledge is power", and attempt to gain some.
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »