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Theme Changer

 Topic: The clever tactics of Islamophobes

 (Read 12748 times)
  • 12 3 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • The clever tactics of Islamophobes
     OP - September 22, 2011, 12:47 AM

    Discuss. I like this article. I stand by its message.

    http://www.thestar.com/article/1055678--the-clever-tactics-of-islamophobes

    Many minorities in Canada and the U.S. suffered discrimination initially, especially during wartime. Still, the current wave of Islamophobia will have a dishonourable place in history.

    What’s said and tolerated about Muslims and Islam is not about other people and their religions. Self-restraint is also missing when violating the privacy and dignity of Muslims, disproportionately. Their every move and word is parsed, to nail them for some real or imagined radicalism.

    Our public discourse has been allowed to be hijacked by those whipping up fear of Muslims and Islam.

    Islamophobia cannot be censored out. But it should be subject to the critical scrutiny of a democracy. Often it is not. So it feasts on wild accusations, double standards and being happily disconnected from reality, even logic. Here’s how.

     • Collective guilt

    Islamophobes hold that all Muslims are responsible for the actions of some. Told that this is absurd, they take another tack: Yes, not all Muslims are terrorists but most terrorists these days are Muslims, so all Muslims must answer for Muslim terrorists anywhere.

    It is also said that Muslims do bad deeds because of their religion, while others do so for other reasons.

    It follows that Norwegian terrorist Anders Breivik and Timothy McVeigh, the Oklahoma bomber, are not representative of Christianity but Major Nadal Hasan, who killed 13 fellow Americans, is of Islam. Pastor Terry Jones of Florida, the Qur’an burner, is not representative of 311 million Americans, but every ignorant mullah is symptomatic of 1.3 billion Muslims.

     • Double standards

    In the book of Islamophobes, the Qur’an is “violent” but the Bible is not. And Islam is not a religion but rather an ideology, a “fascist” one, whose followers are “Islamo-fascists.”

    Even if it can be proven that their ideas are similar to fascism – a very European construct – they would be Muslim fascists, not Islamic ones.

    Other hypocrisies:

    Anti-Muslim demagoguery is free speech but anti-Western nonsense is hate-mongering.

    The minority of Muslims who believed that 9/11 was an American-Israeli inside job were conspiracy theorists, but the 70 per cent of Americans who believed that Saddam Hussein had a hand in 9/11 were patriots.

    Critics of Islam, such as Geert Wilders from Holland, should be welcomed in Canada but those who dare question Western policies, such as British MP George Galloway, must be denied visas.

     • Innuendo

    All or most mosques are controlled by hateful imams brainwashing the faithful to be “fundamentalists” “radicals,” and “jihadists.” No proof is offered.

    It is also said that many Muslim institutions are funded by Saudi money. The premise of the allegation is that while it is good for America to take billions of dollars from the Saudis for armaments, it is bad for Muslim institutions to get a fraction of that – if they are indeed getting it.

    It is said that Muslims cannot integrate. But studies show otherwise, especially in the U.S. where they are among the most educated and are among the top earners. The ones not doing well are in countries where they face the most discrimination, such as France and Germany. Polls in Europe, U.S. and Canada also show that Muslim values are no different than those of other groups.

     • Irrationality

    Twenty-three American states have taken legislative steps to stop the sharia, Muslim personal law, that’s not coming.

    Lest we snicker at Americans, Ontarians in 2006 stopped the sharia that wasn’t coming, either. In 2007, the Quebec village of Herouxville banned the stoning of women that had a zero chance of happening there.

    In 2009, the Swiss banned minarets when there are only four in their country and many more are unlikely to be erected.

    All such measures are not to be taken literally but rather symbolically, a reflection of mass hysteria.

     • Clever tactics

    Islamophobes claim victimhood — that their courageous truth-telling is hindered by political correctness, even as they command increasing media coverage.

    They say they are not against Muslims or Islam, only against “Islamists” and “Islamism,” “Islamicism” and “political Islam” – terms that can mean anything their users want them to mean.

    “Like anti-Semites and racists, who protest they are not against Jews or blacks, Islamophobes are the first to protest that they’re not Islamophobic,” says John Esposito, professor of religion at Georgetown University and co-editor of Islamophobia (Oxford Press, 2011).

    Islamophobes also enlist Muslims who are highly critical of fellow Muslims and Islam. These few individuals are used to discredit the religious beliefs and practices of a majority of Muslims. This is akin to citing a handful of oddball Catholics or Jews to rationalize discrimination against all Catholics and Jews.

  • Re: The clever tactics of Islamophobes
     Reply #1 - September 22, 2011, 10:18 AM



    Quote
    Islamophobes hold that all Muslims are responsible for the actions of some.


    Essentially, this is what distinguishes reasoned criticism of Islam with anti Muslim bigotry - the assertion of direct causation and collective responsibility.

    Mixed in the middle of this is something problematic, however; the primary, generative source of this idea is from within the realm of Islam - and it generates and is asserted in the primary instance by ummah identity politics, Islamism, literalist orthodox theology. Those that Haroon Siddique describes are secondary perpetuators of these ideas.

    However, without clearing a space for the articulation and scrutiny of this, we have a situation in which to mention and describe and confront and repudiate it, is to stand accused of participating it, and the elephant in the room remains.

    I wish when giving an account in defence of Muslims against the innacuracies and essentialising and collective guilt ascriptions of anti Muslim bigots, that this space was articulated and acknowledged and confronted equally clearly more often.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: The clever tactics of Islamophobes
     Reply #2 - September 22, 2011, 11:45 AM

    Discuss. I like this article. I stand by its message.

    http://www.thestar.com/article/1055678--the-clever-tactics-of-islamophobes

     ? Clever tactics

    Islamophobes claim victimhood ? that their courageous truth-telling is hindered by political correctness, even as they command increasing media coverage.

    They say they are not against Muslims or Islam, only against ?Islamists? and ?Islamism,? ?Islamicism? and ?political Islam? ? terms that can mean anything their users want them to mean.

    ?Like anti-Semites and racists, who protest they are not against Jews or blacks, Islamophobes are the first to protest that they?re not Islamophobic,? says John Esposito, professor of religion at Georgetown University and co-editor of Islamophobia (Oxford Press, 2011).

    So you're against the CEMB then, since it is an obviously Islamophobic organisation.


    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: The clever tactics of Islamophobes
     Reply #3 - September 22, 2011, 02:35 PM

    I can imagine if that the internet was around between the wars in germany, there would be many tapped words about a community that thought themselves superior or 'chosen', who lived in ghettos, didn't participate or integrate into the mainstream etc.

    Personally think that all this demonisation of muslims makes it easier for certain western elements to getaway with actions in energy-resource 'muslim' lands.

    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Re: The clever tactics of Islamophobes
     Reply #4 - September 22, 2011, 02:43 PM

     Cheesy Cheesy If the internet was around when Islam was growing and if UDHR was in place I doubt whether it would have grown so big and unwieldy,moreover there would have been no need for an exclusive  homeland for Jews! Tongue



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: The clever tactics of Islamophobes
     Reply #5 - September 22, 2011, 03:09 PM

    Quote
    exclusive  homeland for Jews!


    demonising muslims now helps in maintaining an exclusive(ish) homeland for jews.

    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Re: The clever tactics of Islamophobes
     Reply #6 - September 22, 2011, 08:32 PM

    I feel like Islamphobia is a word thrown at people the minute they voice any concerns about Islam, in a effort to distract from Islam's short-comings. There are some jerks who really do over over-board though. I see Islamphobes as people who attack and criticize innocent Muslims who really don't want anything to do with the volatile practices of Islam or are completely ignorant of it (and rather stay that way). Islam's theology needs to be questioned not the people.

    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • Re: The clever tactics of Islamophobes
     Reply #7 - September 22, 2011, 08:47 PM

    I see Islamphobes as people who attack and criticize innocent Muslims who really don't want anything to do with the volatile practices of Islam or are completely ignorant of it (and rather stay that way).

    Good point.

    I see the same trait in the Japanese when it comes to the murkier realms of their history and culture.

    And it's not all a bad thing. There's a degree of peace to be found in wilful blindness to shit you can't change.
  • Re: The clever tactics of Islamophobes
     Reply #8 - September 22, 2011, 09:33 PM

    I reckon some parts of the media won't be happy till Islamophobia is seen as the truth.

    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Re: The clever tactics of Islamophobes
     Reply #9 - September 22, 2011, 09:45 PM

    Like with all things in life there are a lot of gray areas but people with high contrast vision can see only black and white!

    Us and them right  obviously binary so absolutely no room for any shade of gray,hence unreal.
    We the people right perforce a lot of gray and a lot closer to reality



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: The clever tactics of Islamophobes
     Reply #10 - September 22, 2011, 09:53 PM

    Not all islamophobes are racist, but all racist are islamophobes.

    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Re: The clever tactics of Islamophobes
     Reply #11 - September 22, 2011, 09:59 PM

    ORLY? Care to rethink that? Some Muslims are racists.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: The clever tactics of Islamophobes
     Reply #12 - September 22, 2011, 10:01 PM

    Islam is the religion of tolerance.
  • Re: The clever tactics of Islamophobes
     Reply #13 - September 22, 2011, 10:31 PM

    The perception of collective guilt partially comes from the fact that many of the more extreme elements are not dealt with.. Why is Anjem Choudary still allowed in a mosque for example? Why do we not see more honest self-criticism about the extremes of the religion from muslims? The thought should be "yes, muslim extremists are more numerous and violent than any other religion, so I should quietly cooperate with the authorities to give the correct impression instead of whining about mistreatment and stamping my foot like a petulant child when somenone from my community causes there to be scrutiny of us as a whole..".  If a football team's supporters go on rampages, or chant offensive songs etc etc, then the team and ALL their supporters suffer penalties and extra scrutiny of their behaviour for a period until they don't do it any more.. why is it so wrong to apply the same to religions?

    The double standards argument mainly applies to the American side of things, and whilst I agree that the bible is just as horrific as the quran, the religion doesn't have the same political power or ambitions as islam, nor has it been used to justify anything close to the same behaviour that islam has for centuries.. although the latest batch of crazies in line for the presidential race may change that somewhat. Islam is DEFINITELY more than a religion, no other religion tells you exactly how to live your life right down to toilet habit...
    Most "anti-muslim demagoguery" generally doesn't have the same bloodthirsty overtones that the anti-western or anti-jewish nonsense spouted by some muslims.

    There are significant numbers of rather unpleasant imams running or visiting mosques. There are far more that aren't of course, but the number that are should not be dismissed out of hand and ignored just because they are for now in a minority in the west. The issue with Saudi funding is not so much the mosque itself, it is more the wahabbist literature that inevitably comes along with it which can be rather unsettling in it's content.
    I have an ex-muslim neighbour who I am good friends with, but he goes along with the motions for the sake of his family. His family have never even said hello to me once in 12 years living next door but one to me despite them knowing I am friends with Amran and me saying hello to them first for a year (at least until I got bored with the blank response) It is worse in the self segregating population in Birmingham where my aunt lives, where the teens yell racist abuse at her regularly when she goes out.. and that is generally the only time anyone in the whole community says anything to her. Muslim values are often not the same when applied to other cultures.

    The anti-sharia legislations in assorted states is to ban application of laws which are contrary to the laws of the land. Not anything which doesn't contradict existing laws.
    The Swiss ban on minarets was primarily to stop the construction of dominant religious structures. I do not agree with the fact that it only applies to minarets and not church towers as well personally, but that is the only explanation I have seen of it from a swiss perspective

    The main problem is that anyone who publicly criticises anything to do with islam is then accused of racism/islamophobia. I have seen Maryam Namazie accused of islamophobia almost as much as Tommy Robinson... Political correctness DOES hinder a frank and honest discussion of political Islamism and the more extreme branches of the religion.

    I've been driven mad trying to prove my sanity
  • Re: The clever tactics of Islamophobes
     Reply #14 - September 22, 2011, 10:34 PM

    Osmanthus - I cannot deny your logic  Afro

    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Re: The clever tactics of Islamophobes
     Reply #15 - September 22, 2011, 10:36 PM

    Many moderate/liberal Muslims are critical of extreme elements within their religion. It's not their problem if you're not listening. You can't lump them together and say they should cooperate with authorities if they're being discriminated against. If someone killed in the name of atheism or any other group you belong to, you sure as hell aren't going to remain silent. At least I wouldn't. Hell, even ex-Muslims are treated like potential Islamist terrorists. How ironic.
  • Re: The clever tactics of Islamophobes
     Reply #16 - September 22, 2011, 10:50 PM

    Quote
    yes, muslim extremists are more numerous and violent than any other religion, so I should quietly cooperate with the authorities to give the correct impression instead of whining about mistreatment and stamping my foot like a petulant child when somenone from my community causes there to be scrutiny of us as a whole..".  If a football team's supporters go on rampages, or chant offensive songs etc etc, then the team and ALL their supporters suffer penalties and extra scrutiny of their behaviour for a period until they don't do it any more.. why is it so wrong to apply the same to religions?


    I agree with all you have written and you have written it well. Just one point, the football analogy does not need to apply to just religions, why not politics, after all islam is seen as political. In this case what if the opposing teams board members and managerial team are involved in dirty politics, are they above admonishment? Should not their supporters be more vociferous in their opposition to those controlling the club.



    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Re: The clever tactics of Islamophobes
     Reply #17 - September 22, 2011, 10:51 PM

    I totally agree Abood,I don't discriminate or even judge individuals until I have a reason to (muslims in shalwars with big beards trailing niquabis are an exception), but there are many more that stay silent and generate the (mostly) unfair generalisation. The number and vocal nature of those who get offended by being under even the slightest scrutiny don't help this either compared to the rather subdued and often slow negative response from the genuinely moderate muslims. The media may have a part in this, but other than the daily mail they are generally fairly generous in showing everything possible that is positive of islam and muslims (in the UK at least).
    It is unfortunate that there are racist idiots who agitate the situation somewhat, and it is generally only them that accuse obvious ex-muslims of potential islamism.

    I've been driven mad trying to prove my sanity
  • Re: The clever tactics of Islamophobes
     Reply #18 - September 22, 2011, 10:53 PM

    Quote
    Hell, even ex-Muslims are treated like potential Islamist terrorists. How ironic.


    Nail. Hit. On head.

    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Re: The clever tactics of Islamophobes
     Reply #19 - September 22, 2011, 10:57 PM

    I agree with all you have written and you have written it well. Just one point, the football analogy does not need to apply to just religions, why not politics, after all islam is seen as political. In this case what if the opposing teams board members and managerial team are involved in dirty politics, are they above admonishment? Should not their supporters be more vociferous in their opposition to those controlling the club.





    It should, and does somewhat apply. Do the BNP get a free ride? no, because they are infested with racist morons. The other parties have had their own rough times with scandals (expenses etc) and suffer at election time when those that have behaved worst risk losing seats. There obviously should be much stricter controls on their behaviour, but they are not totally above reproach or criticism. Whilst our political system is flawed and  somewhat corrupt, it is in my opinion at least, the least worst option available

    I've been driven mad trying to prove my sanity
  • Re: The clever tactics of Islamophobes
     Reply #20 - September 22, 2011, 11:05 PM

    Yes but the BNP are not board members. The financers in the boardroom and the managerial team I refer to is the American military-industrial complex, with acquiescent politicians doing there bidding.

    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Re: The clever tactics of Islamophobes
     Reply #21 - September 22, 2011, 11:11 PM

    Yes but the BNP are not board members. The financers in the boardroom and the managerial team I refer to is the American military-industrial complex, with acquiescent politicians doing there bidding.


    The american two-party system is essentially a plutocracy.. and really needs to be destroyed and rebuilt so that the average american is represented. There are currently only ever two choices and little distinguishes either candidate. One is rich and religious, the other is religious and rich. They are corrupt and self-interested but at least their own citizens aren't generally treated brutally and have the ability to freely protest (even if protest is ultimately futile).

    I've been driven mad trying to prove my sanity
  • Re: The clever tactics of Islamophobes
     Reply #22 - September 22, 2011, 11:12 PM

    There are currently only ever two choices and little distinguishes either candidate. One is rich and religious, the other is religious and rich.

    Grin Grin Nice one.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: The clever tactics of Islamophobes
     Reply #23 - September 22, 2011, 11:20 PM

    I have no doubt that Obama is an atheist, or at least an irreligious person.

    That's not to say I support him.
  • Re: The clever tactics of Islamophobes
     Reply #24 - September 22, 2011, 11:24 PM

    Not all islamophobes are racist, but all racist are islamophobes.


    Sorry! you don't need to be a racist to be an Islamophobe. A racist who hates all colored people isn't necessarily an islamophobe he's technically a xenophobe.



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: The clever tactics of Islamophobes
     Reply #25 - September 22, 2011, 11:28 PM

    Quote
    their own citizens aren't generally treated brutally


    That's because they make up a substantial amount of their fanbase, no use pissing them off, they are the paying public. Some clubs are in the premier League, others occupy the lower leagues and Palestine is not even in the Ryman's league. And the Football Association of England usually applies different rules for the richer clubs than the rest.

    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Re: The clever tactics of Islamophobes
     Reply #26 - September 22, 2011, 11:29 PM

    I have no doubt that Obama is an atheist, or at least an irreligious person.

    That's not to say I support him.

    I think he's most likely agnostic. I'm pretty sure though that his church attendance is just for show. He'd have no chance in US politics without some facade of Christianity.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: The clever tactics of Islamophobes
     Reply #27 - September 22, 2011, 11:36 PM

    So the separation of the church and the state is only on paper?



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: The clever tactics of Islamophobes
     Reply #28 - September 22, 2011, 11:38 PM

    The separation of church and state has nothing to do with people's attitudes towards the irreligious. Atheists are the most hated minority in the US.
  • Re: The clever tactics of Islamophobes
     Reply #29 - September 22, 2011, 11:40 PM

    Didn't george Bush say God told him to end the tyranny in Iraq. Religion also surfaced as an issue when Mr Bush and Tony Blair were reported to have prayed together in 2002 at his ranch at Crawford, Texas - the summit at which the invasion of Iraq was agreed in principle. Mr Blair has consistently refused to admit or deny the claim.

    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
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