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Theme Changer

 Topic: Need help with an argument.

 (Read 40527 times)
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  • Re: Need help with an argument.
     Reply #90 - September 12, 2011, 06:44 AM

    Response: Concerning 2:193, the answer is in the very verse you quoted, as you yourself quoted, "But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers." Therefore, this once again demonstrates self-defense, as the verse clearly forbids waring with anyone who desists from waring with you.

    As for the hadith and 9:29 of the Qur'an, I agree, both order muslims to fight, but the word "fight' does not mean "kill". Secondly, if you are suggesting that since the text says "fight" that this somehow means that islam promotes unjust violence, then according to your logic, Martin Luther King is a violent person. Why? Didn't he "fight" for civil rights? Exactly. The word "fight" has several definitions, one meaning to struggle or strive. Thus the hadith and the verse of the Qur'an simply states to strive in promoting the teachings of islam, not to physically use violence or force, as proven by verse 2:256 of the Qur'an, which states that there is no compulsion in islam.


    by self defense you mean for the sake of not causing a "fitna" in the religion ?

    that is not self defense

    and about hadith. read it properly please and i don't think martin luther king said that the people who stop discrimating will be safe from us killing them because that is what the hadith says exaactly

    you muslims says that only when you learn arabic you can understand the quran and hadith better. well same goes to you

    read the hadith in arabic and you will understand

    even in english it says

    Quote
        It has been narrated on the authority of Abdullah b. 'Umar that the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer, and pay Zakat and if they do it, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah


    [13:36] <Fimbles> anything above 7 inches
    [13:37] <Fimbles> is wacko
    [13:37] <Fimbles> see
    [13:37] <Fimbles> you think i'd enjoy anything above 7 inches up my arse?
  • Re: Need help with an argument.
     Reply #91 - September 12, 2011, 07:44 AM

    Fatihah is same  as many muslims here in pakistan ...they believe but in parallel they reject...and they try to make their point and say that mullahs has misinterpreted it.......fatihah  is not answering about hadiths and verses but saying that for me its bad to kill innnocent...so it means quran and hadith are bad ...but no , fatihah wont believe that..... Smiley

    Fatihah is also from Pakistan dear kartoos ..lol..   but we all should be happy he moved from Mullah Islam like you see here in Pakistan  

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGNOo1vwHto

    to that of  Quran only Muslim with hadith stories attached here & there wherever needed for a Muslim Man. Well Fatihah Must have freedom and right to believe and question the understanding of Quran..

    Javed Ghamidi did a good job as long as Musharraf was there now he has to leave the country and move to Malaysia

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Need help with an argument.
     Reply #92 - September 12, 2011, 08:49 AM

    unlike other religious scriptures,  Quran is a book which is put together by fools who never edited it to figure how badly it is written., hence one must read verses above and blow to make a sense out of teh verse one is interested in. Here our Fatihah  either did not understand what is written in that 2:193 or he is misrepresenting it here .. Fatihah  says
    Response: Concerning 2:193, the answer is in the very verse you quoted, as you yourself quoted, "But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers." Therefore, this once again demonstrates self-defense, as the verse clearly forbids waring with anyone who desists from waring with you.

     Let us carefully read those verses in sequence
    Quote
    [2:190] They ask thee about the new moons. Say, ‘They are means for measuring time for the general good of mankind and for the Pilgrimage.’ And it is not righteousness that you come into houses by the backs thereof; but truly righteous is he who fears God. And you should come into houses by the doors thereof; and fear Allah that you may prosper.

    [2:191] And fight in the cause of Allah against those who fight against you, but do not transgress. Surely, Allah loves not the transgressors.

    [2:192] And kill them wherever you meet them and drive them out from where they have driven you out; for persecution is worse than killing. And fight them not in, and near, the Sacred Mosque until they fight you therein. But if they fight you, then fight them: such is the requital for the disbelievers.

    [2:193] But if they desist, then surely Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.

    [2:194] And fight them until there is no persecution, and religion is freely professed for Allah. But if they desist, then remember that no hostility is allowed except against the aggressors.

    [2:195] The violation of a Sacred Month should be retaliated in the Sacred Month; and for all sacred things there is the law of retaliation. So, whoso transgresses against you, punish him for his transgression to the extent to which he has transgressed against you. And fear Allah and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.

    There meaning of "Desist" is NOT "Stop fighting and stop killing when other side stop fighting and killing"

    what it is saying is "  killing of others is authorized in the event of "persecution" ., Now this word "persecution" is a very ambitious word.  

    For e.g., If some one questions Muhammad and his followers what they are doing.. "Then it is persecution"

    If some one doesn't give the money to Muhammad and his followers for the sake of propagating Allah religion "then the other side is persecuting Muhammad and his followers"  

    Or some one questions Muhammad and his actions such as  13 women in 13 years after he crossed that golden age 50 then it is a persecution.

    If some one says., Muhammad why are you marrying  & sleeping with 9 year old girl man.. She is child you are a 50 year old guy., common stop that nonsense. Then it is persecution

    If some one says., Muhammad why are you marrying   your adopted son' wife?  that is not right and that is NOT Arabian custom man., Then it is persecution ., not only that here Allah comes in support of Muhammad sexual pleasure

    So that word "PERSECUTION IS VERY AMBIGUOUS WORD..

    worse is in support of war Allah revels to Muhammad   "That  fighting   persists until all religion is for Allah."

    Next problem comes after the death of Muhammad., There you have Quranic verses that orders every Muslim support the leader  of the Islamic Ummah  that is Caliph. So all Muslims and all citizens must support  what Caliph does.  And  all wars after Mohammad was   also for the sake of Allah. The  Loot, booty and those Harems are for the leaders of Islam.  that is what you see in Islam all the way to 17th century until infighting with-in Islam and Imperialist British screwed them forever all the way to 2nd world war.

    It is interesting to note in the history of Islam part of Indian sub continent and Spain are  the two regions that could not be islamized completely. In Spain Muslims were completely wiped out in  1567 by that King Philip II  who  made the use of the Arabic language illegal, and forbade the Islamic religion, dress, and customs and his  troops commanded by Don John of Austria destroyed the town of Galera  after slaughtering the entire population.

    So that is how wars were created and population made to follow rules of Islam  by using Islamic scriptures in the past.,  Well such actions by Muslims  in the present time will lead Muslims and other side in to that The Clash of Civilizations

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Need help with an argument.
     Reply #93 - September 12, 2011, 12:04 PM

    Prove what? Every single Muslim worth their shahada knows and accepts that the penalty for apostasy is death. I can go to a nearby masjeed now, ask the imam there, and he will say the penalty for apostasy is death. All four of the classical imams supports death for apostasy. This is fact. This is the reality. Every single muslim knows this. You denying this is like denying that Zebras have stripes.

    Which makes me wonder; what kind of secular, liberal, kafir-dominated country you are from? Have you even lived at least a few years in an Islamic country? Or are you simply so lost in your delusion that you fail to recognize reality?


    Response: And I can walk to my nearest masjid and ask the same question, ans the asnswer to the question of whether apostates should be punished by death simply because they changed their religion will be an emphatic "NO." Every single mullah that you talk to, if asked to prove from the Qur'an and Sunnah that apostates should be killed because of this, each and every one of them utterly fail to do so. Every muslim knows this. Everyone here has failed to do so. So the fact that you deny so is like denyting that a Zebra has stripes, not the other way around.

    Secondly, you've done nothing but prove my point. For you just stated that if you confessed your apostasy publically that you can be killed by law in your country. So stating that every imam in your country states that the penalty for apostates is death proves nothing because, of course they are going to say that. If not, they would die as well. You've just hit the nail on the head. The peaching that death is prescribed to apostates is not because it comes from the Qur'an or Sunnah, because it's been demonstrated throughout the thread that such is not the case, supported by your inability to prove otherwise from the Qur'an and Sunnah. The preaching stems from the false implication of islamic law in government, forcing everyone to preach the same, for fear of being killed if they don't. This is further proven by the fact that here in the U.S. or any country where the shariah law is not the law, the vast majority of muslims will tell you that islam does not pescribe the death penalty. Why? Because it is the true teaching of islam and they are not forced to preach otherwise.

    Qul Haatoo Burhaanakum in kuntum saadiqeen
  • Re: Need help with an argument.
     Reply #94 - September 12, 2011, 12:19 PM

    Fatihah is same  as many muslims here in pakistan ...they believe but in parallel they reject...and they try to make their point and say that mullahs has misinterpreted it.......fatihah  is not answering about hadiths and verses but saying that for me its bad to kill innnocent...so it means quran and hadith are bad ...but no , fatihah wont believe that..... Smiley


    Response: To the contrary, it has been demonstrated from the Qur'an and Sunnah itself that the death penalty is not prescribed for apostates simply because they change their religion, because there is absolutely no, I repeat, no hadith that you can bring forward that states that an apostate is to be kiled "because" they changed their religion. None. The hadiths that people try to use never state that apostates are to be killed because they change their religion, but state that apostates "can be" killed, proving that the condition is not "Because" they changed their religion. And when we read the Qur'an and hadiths in context, the Qur'an itself says that there is no compulsion in religion (2:256), hadith 9:89:318 of Bukhari shows that Muhammad did nothing to a man who walked up to Muhammad and openly acknowledged  that he was an apostate and wanted to leave islam, verses 4:88-91 of the Qur'an clearly forbids fighting anyone who does not fight you, verse 60:8,9 clearly forbids disrespecting people who have not fought against you and driven you out of your home, etc. Thus we see clearly from the Qur'an and Sunnah itself that death to apostates just because they change their religion is false. Not because I say so, but as proven, because the Qur'an and Sunnah says so.

    Bismillahir rahmanir raheem.

    Qul Haatoo Burhaanakum in kuntum saadiqeen
  • Re: Need help with an argument.
     Reply #95 - September 12, 2011, 12:29 PM

    by self defense you mean for the sake of not causing a "fitna" in the religion ?

    that is not self defense

    and about hadith. read it properly please and i don't think martin luther king said that the people who stop discrimating will be safe from us killing them because that is what the hadith says exaactly

    you muslims says that only when you learn arabic you can understand the quran and hadith better. well same goes to you

    read the hadith in arabic and you will understand

    even in english it says



    Response: By self-defense, I mean fighting someone who physicaaly tries to fight or kill you, thus your argument fails. As for the hadith, it states that one's blood and property is guaranteed, which implies that one who does not pay zakat and establish prayer and believe that there is no God but Allah is not guaranteed their blood and property. Not being guaranteed blood does not mean that I'm going to kill you, as the words "not guaranteed" is not defined as "I'm going to kill you" in any dictionary. Another failed rebuttal.

    Qul Haatoo Burhaanakum in kuntum saadiqeen
  • Re: Need help with an argument.
     Reply #96 - September 12, 2011, 12:30 PM

    Response: And I can walk to my nearest masjid and ask the same question, ans the asnswer to the question of whether apostates should be punished by death simply because they changed their religion will be an emphatic "NO." Every single mullah that you talk to, if asked to prove from the Qur'an and Sunnah that apostates should be killed because of this, each and every one of them utterly fail to do so. Every muslim knows this. Everyone here has failed to do so. So the fact that you deny so is like denyting that a Zebra has stripes, not the other way around.

    Secondly, you've done nothing but prove my point. For you just stated that if you confessed your apostasy publically that you can be killed by law in your country. So stating that every imam in your country states that the penalty for apostates is death proves nothing because, of course they are going to say that. If not, they would die as well. You've just hit the nail on the head. The peaching that death is prescribed to apostates is not because it comes from the Qur'an or Sunnah, because it's been demonstrated throughout the thread that such is not the case, supported by your inability to prove otherwise from the Qur'an and Sunnah. The preaching stems from the false implication of islamic law in government, forcing everyone to preach the same, for fear of being killed if they don't. This is further proven by the fact that here in the U.S. or any country where the shariah law is not the law, the vast majority of muslims will tell you that islam does not pescribe the death penalty. Why? Because it is the true teaching of islam and they are not forced to preach otherwise.


    Except that it DOES come from the Quran and the Sunnah, the examples already given by everyone else here, which you dismissed and ignore through some fantastic mental gymnastics and self denial.

    And who the hell are you to say otherwise? The death penalty is agreed by all the classical imams that make up the 4 main mazhabs, it is agreed by Al-Azhar university, the most prestigious Islamic center of learning in the world. it is agreed by the government of Egypt and Iran and Saudi Arabia. Seriously, almost every single muslim that walks the earth agrees with the death penalty for apostasy EXCEPT YOU. Seriously, how lost are you in self denial for you to ignore reality?
  • Re: Need help with an argument.
     Reply #97 - September 12, 2011, 12:40 PM

    unlike other religious scriptures,  Quran is a book which is put together by fools who never edited it to figure how badly it is written., hence one must read verses above and blow to make a sense out of teh verse one is interested in. Here our Fatihah  either did not understand what is written in that 2:193 or he is misrepresenting it here .. Fatihah  says Let us carefully read those verses in sequenceThere meaning of "Desist" is NOT "Stop fighting and stop killing when other side stop fighting and killing"

    what it is saying is "  killing of others is authorized in the event of "persecution" ., Now this word "persecution" is a very ambitious word.  

    For e.g., If some one questions Muhammad and his followers what they are doing.. "Then it is persecution"

    If some one doesn't give the money to Muhammad and his followers for the sake of propagating Allah religion "then the other side is persecuting Muhammad and his followers"  

    Or some one questions Muhammad and his actions such as  13 women in 13 years after he crossed that golden age 50 then it is a persecution.

    If some one says., Muhammad why are you marrying  & sleeping with 9 year old girl man.. She is child you are a 50 year old guy., common stop that nonsense. Then it is persecution

    If some one says., Muhammad why are you marrying   your adopted son' wife?  that is not right and that is NOT Arabian custom man., Then it is persecution ., not only that here Allah comes in support of Muhammad sexual pleasure

    So that word "PERSECUTION IS VERY AMBIGUOUS WORD..

    worse is in support of war Allah revels to Muhammad   "That  fighting   persists until all religion is for Allah."

    Next problem comes after the death of Muhammad., There you have Quranic verses that orders every Muslim support the leader  of the Islamic Ummah  that is Caliph. So all Muslims and all citizens must support  what Caliph does.  And  all wars after Mohammad was   also for the sake of Allah. The  Loot, booty and those Harems are for the leaders of Islam.  that is what you see in Islam all the way to 17th century until infighting with-in Islam and Imperialist British screwed them forever all the way to 2nd world war.

    It is interesting to note in the history of Islam part of Indian sub continent and Spain are  the two regions that could not be islamized completely. In Spain Muslims were completely wiped out in  1567 by that King Philip II  who  made the use of the Arabic language illegal, and forbade the Islamic religion, dress, and customs and his  troops commanded by Don John of Austria destroyed the town of Galera  after slaughtering the entire population.

    So that is how wars were created and population made to follow rules of Islam  by using Islamic scriptures in the past.,  Well such actions by Muslims  in the present time will lead Muslims and other side in to that The Clash of Civilizations



    Response: The context of the entire verse that you quoted relates to fighting and killing, therefore the words "desist" clearly means to stop fighting and killing according to the very context. Your argument fails. The word persecution is not defined in any dictionary as "to question someone" so your argument based on such a false definition fails. Then you state that the Qur'an states that Muslims must support the leader of the Ummah, which is the Caliph, yet fail to provide the verse to support your claim, while 33:36 of the Qur'an clearly states that disobeying Allah and the prophet is an error in their religion, thus supporting the fact that one does not have to obey the Caliph if it goes against Allah and the Prophet. Debunked as usual. Back to the drawing board for you, once again.

    Qul Haatoo Burhaanakum in kuntum saadiqeen
  • Re: Need help with an argument.
     Reply #98 - September 12, 2011, 12:43 PM

    Except that it DOES come from the Quran and the Sunnah, the examples already given by everyone else here, which you dismissed and ignore through some fantastic mental gymnastics and self denial.

    And who the hell are you to say otherwise? The death penalty is agreed by all the classical imams that make up the 4 main mazhabs, it is agreed by Al-Azhar university, the most prestigious Islamic center of learning in the world. it is agreed by the government of Egypt and Iran and Saudi Arabia. Seriously, almost every single muslim that walks the earth agrees with the death penalty for apostasy EXCEPT YOU. Seriously, how lost are you in self denial for you to ignore reality?


    Response: to the contrary, the examples were utterly debunked, suported by your inability to prove otherwise. Secondly, you can bring up as many universities and Imams as you like. If it is not according to the Qur'an or Sunnah, then that means that each of them are wrong, and as demonstrated, they are utterly wrong. So the relevant question is, how deep is your delusion?

    Qul Haatoo Burhaanakum in kuntum saadiqeen
  • Re: Need help with an argument.
     Reply #99 - September 12, 2011, 12:45 PM

    what is the  penalty for apostasy ?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XRCYlZ4XOQ

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTz6EPjqgZU

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMAZR8YIhxI

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiDjixed6-o

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp-jf9zgoxU

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD8HdSPTJjY


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Need help with an argument.
     Reply #100 - September 12, 2011, 12:49 PM

    Response: The context of the entire verse that you quoted relates to fighting and killing, therefore the words "desist" clearly means to stop fighting and killing according to the very context. Your argument fails. The word persecution is not defined in any dictionary as "to question someone" so your argument based on such a false definition fails. Then you state that the Qur'an states that Muslims must support the leader of the Ummah, which is the Caliph, yet fail to provide the verse to support your claim, while 33:36 of the Qur'an clearly states that disobeying Allah and the prophet is an error in their religion, thus supporting the fact that one does not have to obey the Caliph if it goes against Allah and the Prophet. Debunked as usual. Back to the drawing board for you, once again.

    Forget about THEIR RELIGION., what is your religion dear Fatihah ?

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Need help with an argument.
     Reply #101 - September 12, 2011, 12:54 PM

    My religion is islam. What is your religion?

    Qul Haatoo Burhaanakum in kuntum saadiqeen
  • Re: Need help with an argument.
     Reply #102 - September 12, 2011, 01:02 PM

    My religion is sex.
  • Re: Need help with an argument.
     Reply #103 - September 12, 2011, 01:18 PM

    My religion is islam. What is your religion?

    good then what is "THEIR" religion? and who are they in your earlier post?

    well as far as my religion is concerned., I am Zebra by birth and genetics.. Islamic side Shia side .. father /grand father side was Christian/pagans/hindus., I think  they didn't know what it was and what their religion was.,  and I think their religion was sex as Abood said above.,  they went for their loved ones/wives, didn't care about religion.  Great grand father from my grand mother side  apparently was hardcore shia Muslim..

    As far as I am concerned, I change religions  as if they are my underwear..   My present religion is Humanism  and My whole scripture is few words which in fact I find in every religious book.. and that is this

     







    I may add few more words  on to  that golden rule for my religion dear Fatihah. But as usual you are talking rubbish with that verse 33.36..


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Need help with an argument.
     Reply #104 - September 12, 2011, 02:21 PM

    One can always recognize when someone is defeated with an argument when instead of disproving the argument, their only response is "that's rubbish", with no evidence to support it. Please, do yourself a favor and save yourself from the continuous embarrassment since it's clealy obvious that you don't have a clue.

    Qul Haatoo Burhaanakum in kuntum saadiqeen
  • Re: Need help with an argument.
     Reply #105 - September 12, 2011, 03:28 PM

    Please, do yourself a favor and save yourself from the continuous embarrassment since it's clealy obvious that you don't have a clue.

    I know, I know Fatihah.  In fact that is the good reason to interact fellows like you., I am sure you will give the clue.  As far   as continuous embarrassment is concerned., not a big deal., I swim in embarrassment Fatihah.,  errrr  embarrassment in CEMB is nothing.. just nothing.  Look at yeezevee profiles here and in CEMB and in Balouch.com

    here read  AbdulRahman "  Exposing inconsistency in YeeZeVee's argument"

    So embarrassment in forum like  CEMB., I drink it like glass of beer dear Fatihah
    Quote
    One can always recognize when someone is defeated with an argument when instead of disproving the argument, their only response is "that's rubbish", with no evidence to support it.

    Ah.. ha. wait., wait., I will try to prove it to you "How rubbish you write taking a piece of a verse from a surah".. You got to read whole surah man, not just a verse..

    with best regards
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Need help with an argument.
     Reply #106 - September 12, 2011, 03:40 PM

    Another failed rebuttal. You are consistent.

    Qul Haatoo Burhaanakum in kuntum saadiqeen
  • Re: Need help with an argument.
     Reply #107 - September 12, 2011, 03:46 PM

    Dear Fatihah,

    You're an idiot.

    Sincerely
    Jesus

    Formerly known as Iblis
  • Re: Need help with an argument.
     Reply #108 - September 12, 2011, 05:28 PM

    Islam & Apostasy

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmwhp0bu5ug

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQXDm5Icnew



    Mohamed Nazim asks the question in Public to dr. Zakir Naik

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sN3u_SLZ9E


    Mohamed Nazim was Attacked, Threatened with Death,

    http://www.realcourage.org/2010/05/mohamed-nazim/
    Quote
      The man, Mohamed Nazim, was promptly attacked, taken into custody, and has been threatened with death and beheading, or other punishments for choosing his freedom of conscience.  Maldives media are reporting that it is the first time in many hundreds of years that a Maldivian has publicly renounced Islam, since Sultan King Hassan IX converted to Christianity in 1552 and was deposed.

    The Maldives constitution mandates that all citizens of Maldives must be Muslims. The Haveeru newspaper report states that his question “sparked comments of hatred from an angry crowd of around 11,000 with many calling to kill him and attack him, while Naik was answering the question. Several people rushed towards Nazim, who was sitting at a back row after moving away from the microphone, as an official of the Islamic Ministry tried to escort him out. Police, however, came between Nazim and the crowd and escorted him into custody.”


    And Mohamed Nazim repents and reverts to Islam.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-byykmyFuIs

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Need help with an argument.
     Reply #109 - September 12, 2011, 05:31 PM

    Dear Fatihah,

    You're an idiot.

    Sincerely
    Jesus


    Response: Likewise.

    Qul Haatoo Burhaanakum in kuntum saadiqeen
  • Re: Need help with an argument.
     Reply #110 - September 12, 2011, 05:56 PM

    Response: By self-defense, I mean fighting someone who physicaaly tries to fight or kill you, thus your argument fails. As for the hadith, it states that one's blood and property is guaranteed, which implies that one who does not pay zakat and establish prayer and believe that there is no God but Allah is not guaranteed their blood and property. Not being guaranteed blood does not mean that I'm going to kill you, as the words "not guaranteed" is not defined as "I'm going to kill you" in any dictionary. Another failed rebuttal.


    do you know what fitna means ? or you are just saying random stuff ?
    fitna has nothing to do with someone trying to kill you -,-

    can you explain what not being guaranteed blood means if it doesn't mean they are safe from us killing  them..


    IT IS NOT ABOUT WHAT IS IN DICTIONARY

    IF YOU WANNA USE A DICTIONARY THEN ALL THE "SCIENTIFIC MIRCALES IN THE QURAN" are bullshit because noone of them actually say the science it just plays with words and people make shit out of it. but in this case IT IS AS CLEAR AS THE FUCKING SUN
    YOUR BLOOD IS SAFE

    WHAT COULD THIS POSSIBLY MEAN OTHER THAN we wont kill you


    this is not any difference

    stop being a hypocrite please and use same logic you use with understand anything in the quran

    [13:36] <Fimbles> anything above 7 inches
    [13:37] <Fimbles> is wacko
    [13:37] <Fimbles> see
    [13:37] <Fimbles> you think i'd enjoy anything above 7 inches up my arse?
  • Re: Need help with an argument.
     Reply #111 - September 12, 2011, 05:56 PM

    Dear Fatihah,

    You're an idiot.

    Sincerely
    Jesus

    Jesus you are a Satan ., It is IBLIS it is the devil that is making you talk .. your mate is devil.  finmad

    They are not my words but words of dr. Zaid Kasim Muhammad  Ghazzawi

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xl7KBXM--HM

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Need help with an argument.
     Reply #112 - September 12, 2011, 05:57 PM

    Response: Likewise.


    Response:

    I like turtles.

    Formerly known as Iblis
  • Re: Need help with an argument.
     Reply #113 - September 12, 2011, 06:00 PM

    Response:

    I like turtles.


    what??

    oh well .,  I am glad you didn't say

    " I am fool"

     Fatihah  would have repeated that...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Need help with an argument.
     Reply #114 - September 12, 2011, 09:46 PM

    What??
    From the other thread..

    Quote from: Al-Fatihah
    Quote
    Response: Adam was 90 feet tall and humankind has decreased in size since the time of Adam. None of which goes against physics. Giants are even spoken of as existing in your very own bible and there are many archaeological discoveries to confirm the existence of giants.


    Quote from: Al-Fatihah
    Quote
    Response: Or rather, do you understand that a biologist's knowledge doesn't come close to Allah, thus the laugh is on you and the biologist?


    why so many lies from JC IBLIS??  
    Did Jesus Christ  lie  or is it true ??
    did Fatihah  say that??

    How are you doing dear Fatihah ??  did you say that at Al-Fatihah post no_1,294     that  "Adam was 90 feet tall and humankind has decreased in size since the time of Adam. "??

    Huh! so do you consider earth is 4000 year old??

    Oh well  some of the largest mammals in the ocean are 90feet long so why not Adam?? Now I wonder about the size of Eve and their children Cain, Abel and  Seth

    So dear Jesus Christ,  dear  Iblis  I wonder whether you could describe size of  Eve and the organs of Adam..

    well that all comes from the book of Bull shit
    Quote
    Quote
    Volume 4, Book 55, Number 543:

        Narrated Abu Huraira:

        The Prophet said, "Allah created Adam, making him 60 cubits tall. When He created him, He said to him, "Go and greet that group of angels, and listen to their reply, for it will be your greeting (salutation) and the greeting (salutations of your offspring." So, Adam said (to the angels), As-Salamu Alaikum (i.e. Peace be upon you). The angels said, "As-salamu Alaika wa Rahmatu-l-lahi" (i.e. Peace and Allah's Mercy be upon you). Thus the angels added to Adam's salutation the expression, 'Wa Rahmatu-l-lahi,' Any person who will enter Paradise will resemble Adam (in appearance and figure). People have been decreasing in stature since Adam's creation.


    Volume 4, Book 55, Number 544:

        Narrated Abu Huraira:

        Allah's Apostle said, "The first group of people who will enter Paradise, will be glittering like the full moon and those who will follow them, will glitter like the most brilliant star in the sky. They will not urinate, relieve nature, spit, or have any nasal secretions. Their combs will be of gold, and their sweat will smell like musk. The aloes-wood will be used in their centers. Their wives will be houris. All of them will look alike and will resemble their father Adam (in statute), sixty cubits tall."

    well read more of that shit in that link fromDr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan_ Pakistan

    but I am surprised with all that intelligence he shows out side of Islam our dear Fatihah seem to shut down his common sense   when it comes to Islam/Quran/hadith

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Need help with an argument.
     Reply #115 - September 12, 2011, 10:13 PM

    what??

    oh well .,  I am glad you didn't say

    " I am fool"

     Fatihah  would have repeated that...



    Grin

    Formerly known as Iblis
  • Re: Need help with an argument.
     Reply #116 - September 13, 2011, 01:27 PM

    Another failed rebuttal. You are consistent.

    what happened where did Fatihah go?

    Grin

    Jesus Christ., You know you are really a big problem to this world., People like you are the reason  why people like Fatihah gets disappointed in life.  finmad finmad Fatihah don't give up., fight  fight...  these infidels here needs more time to come out of their shells. They have thick skulls.

    So going back to your post..
    One can always recognize when someone is defeated with an argument when instead of disproving the argument, their only response is "that's rubbish", with no evidence to support it. Please, do yourself a favor and save yourself from the continuous embarrassment since it's clealy obvious that you don't have a clue.

    I am willing to get defeated by smart guys like you., don't worry about that continuous embarrassment  dear Fatihah. I am a stubborn mule searching for allah..god all the time and willing to learn from intelligent people. So where are we??

     
    Response: The context of the entire verse that you quoted relates to fighting and killing, therefore the words "desist" clearly means to stop fighting and killing according to the very context.   Your argument fails.

    I know my argument fails with you Fatihah., but still I would like to argue.

    So you are talking about  "context of entire verse" Indeed "CONTEXT" is an extremely important point in all these religious alleged revelations of allah/god. In fact not just that verse but Context of entire Quran  Alleged allah revelation and its timing is important.   That goes not only for Islam but also for all other religious scriptures.

    now I wonder whether you could explain the context of those verse 2:90 to 2:95)  that you read in that link., please read again and explain the people here in what context Allah "ALLEGEDLY" revealed those verses to Muhammad.

    Quote
    The word persecution is not defined in any dictionary....  

    well one word at a time let us finish the word "Desist" before we go to " persecution " dear Fatihah

    with best regards
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Need help with an argument.
     Reply #117 - April 23, 2017, 12:13 PM

    I see how fatemat used the term "no compulsion in religion"  to defend herself and fatemat you are very good at bending and twisting things you know. You have mastered self defense when it comes to arguments.

    Can we continue in case you are alive?
  • Need help with an argument.
     Reply #118 - April 23, 2017, 03:20 PM

    It doesn't say there's no compulsion in religion if you read it in context. It says there's no compulsion in the religion of your people/forefathers and that you should become muslim instead. "There is no compulsion in religion. The right way (islam) has been made clear from the wrong way (anything other than islam).

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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