Surah Al-Fil (105): Who brings army on elephants in a desert

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Surah Al-Fil (105): Who brings army on elephants in a desert
OP - August 04, 2011, 09:22 PM

I was watching the following video:

[Edit] You do not need to watch the video. I just put it here as reference
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R86ekfHk6Pw
This is Christianity vs Islam video. However one interesting point it makes is regarding the army of elephants travelling to Mecca through desert.

Well in any case the birds throwing stones part obviously does not make sense. Lets say it was a miracle but why use elephants in a desert. I never thought of this before

Or it is just me. Elephants make perfect sense....
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Re: Surah Al-Fil (105): Who brings army on elephants in a desert
Reply #1 - August 04, 2011, 09:27 PM

Can't watch that guy - he makes me fall asleep. But yes that story is so full of holes - here's the video I made about that Sura almost a year ago now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axgozNZ3yJs
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Re: Surah Al-Fil (105): Who brings army on elephants in a desert
Reply #2 - August 04, 2011, 09:27 PM

It's perfectly possible. Elephants have been used in ancient/medieval warfare in various climates.. including deserts. Sure it's a logistical nightmare to maintain and feed elephants, but it's been used in desert warfare many times before.

There may be many holes in the story and it may be entirely false. But usage of elephant warfare in a desert is not really a good point.

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Re: Surah Al-Fil (105): Who brings army on elephants in a desert
Reply #3 - August 04, 2011, 09:33 PM

You know that guy - who always begins with "May the Peace of Jesus be with you" is the worst critic of Islam - ever!
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Re: Surah Al-Fil (105): Who brings army on elephants in a desert
Reply #4 - August 04, 2011, 09:38 PM

When I was a Muslim I always found Christian (religious ones) critiques of Islam - flat, hypocritical and intellectually dishonest. It was Atheist arguments against religion in general that I found far more powerful.
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Re: Surah Al-Fil (105): Who brings army on elephants in a desert
Reply #5 - August 04, 2011, 09:38 PM

Hassan - Yes I have seen your video during my confusion days and it was really helpful The story is full of holes and a handful of muslim scholar take the convenient route of categorizing it as symbolic narration of divine help

Oh jesus - You have all the answers... I guess despite the overhead Elephants were used as a symbol of strength etc.
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Re: Surah Al-Fil (105): Who brings army on elephants in a desert
Reply #6 - August 04, 2011, 09:39 PM

Interesting, come to think of it, i cant imagine a usage of elephants in the desert. So how possible is it? How did they survive and adapt in the Arabian Desert?

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Re: Surah Al-Fil (105): Who brings army on elephants in a desert
Reply #7 - August 04, 2011, 09:46 PM

Ninja, perhaps the carried lots of buckets of water with them but doesn't explain why didn't the elephant sink in the sand!!

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Re: Surah Al-Fil (105): Who brings army on elephants in a desert
Reply #8 - August 04, 2011, 09:48 PM

Quote from: Hassan on August 04, 2011, 09:38 PM
When I was a Muslim I always found Christian (religious ones) critiques of Islam - flat, hypocritical and intellectually dishonest. It was Atheist arguments against religion in general that I found far more powerful.

I totally agree and it is obvious that most of the fallacies apply to all three Abrahamic religions (rather all religions in general).
During my initial research I mostly hit the stupid anti islam arguments on sites like faithfreedom etc (IMHO) before I found your videos and this sites. Unfortunately some critics of Islam base their arguments on superficial things and obvious misconceptions making it hard to filter out the real points.
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Re: Surah Al-Fil (105): Who brings army on elephants in a desert
Reply #9 - August 04, 2011, 10:33 PM

Quote from: Fara7 on August 04, 2011, 09:46 PM
Ninja, perhaps the carried lots of buckets of water with them but doesn't explain why didn't the elephant sink in the sand!!

Yeah, all the more reason why it makes me wonder more

Elephants in desert

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Re: Surah Al-Fil (105): Who brings army on elephants in a desert
Reply #10 - August 05, 2011, 02:26 AM

Quote from: Hassan on August 04, 2011, 09:33 PM
You know that guy - who always begins with "May the Peace of Jesus be with you" is the worst critic of Islam - ever!

Not only worst critic. You should hear him talk about Atheists, science (especially theory of evolution). He is an Arab Ortodox Christian. A Christian apologist who lives in the States and who got a chatroom in Paltalk. Where he got appr 50 Christian fundies (a bunch of rednecks also) and a couple of Ex-Muslims and a couple of Muslims which they verbally abuse.

Its the most pathetic form of criticism of Islam. And he clearly got an agenda.

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Re: Surah Al-Fil (105): Who brings army on elephants in a desert
Reply #11 - August 05, 2011, 02:30 AM

I think its possible that this could have happen. The only "problem" is that there is no historical documents which proves what the Quran says. If something like that happen - there would at least be some chronicles.

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Re: Surah Al-Fil (105): Who brings army on elephants in a desert
Reply #12 - August 17, 2011, 03:12 PM

Elephants in the Desert

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0v5MIdyxZc

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Re: Surah Al-Fil (105): Who brings army on elephants in a desert
Reply #13 - August 17, 2011, 11:38 PM

I remember reading in Ibn Kathir's Sirah that they only had one elephant, not several, so it's not wildly unrealistic in that regard. The part that's hard to believe, as far as I can see, is the swarm of birds carrying stones and baked clay and summarily bludgeoning to death, with said projectiles, the rival king's forces, all without smashing up the Haram at the same time.
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Re: Surah Al-Fil (105): Who brings army on elephants in a desert
Reply #14 - August 18, 2011, 12:49 AM

i'm pretty sure that the army was supposed to have been outside the haram when it was destroyed. so that would explain why the haram was also not smashed up.

honestly there are stories much more ridiculous than this one in terms of defying common sense.

i would say the strangest part of this story is why god decided to protect the ka'ba while it was filled with pagan gods but earlier abraham and his son had to rebuild it. that would imply that in its dormant state it was allowed to deteriorate.

interesting note: apparently the name of the elephant (or the biggest elephant if you believe in the multiple element theory) was "mahmood".. which sounds a lot like "mammoth".
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