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Theme Changer

 Topic: Breivik and the right - Douglas Murray

 (Read 7409 times)
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  • Breivik and the right - Douglas Murray
     OP - July 29, 2011, 04:57 PM

    Excellent article.  Afro

    ----

    http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/7129123/breivik-and-the-right.thtml

    Anders Behring Breivik believed himself a Knight Templar and awarded himself various military ranks accordingly. He also believed that he and other self-described racists had common cause with jihadis and that the USA has a Jewish problem. So even before he planted a car bomb in a civilian area and gunned down scores of young people, it would have been clear to anyone who bothered to question him that Breivik was insane.

    But in the coverage since his atrocities first broke on to the world, two troubling tendencies have converged. The first is the search for reason in a mind that was clearly a stranger to it. The second is the tendency — particularly strong on the left — to use any horrific act as a megaphone for existing prejudices. In the aftermath of the shooting of Congresswoman Gabrielle Gifford in January, the left-wing media and politicians hunted for the right-wingers who they claimed had inspired the attack. That the gunman was not only a loner but a psychotic maniac was largely ignored as they rushed off excitedly to attack their ideological enemies. And so it is with Breivik.

    For the past decade and more, every time an Islamist has blown something up, a chorus of voices — mainly from the left — has rightly said that ‘we shouldn’t jump to any conclusions’. But this time it was different. The Labour MP Tom Harris observed, with great frankness, that a ‘palpable relief that swept through the left when the identity of the terrorist was made known… Here, thank God, was a terrorist we can all hate without equivocation: white, Christian and far right-wing. Phew.’ So never mind not jumping to conclusions. When it seemed to emerge that, among many other things, the killer also claimed to be opposed to immigration and was fearful of Islam, that jump became a great leap towards group blame.

    Within two days of the attacks, the New York Times insisted a ‘new attention’ would need to be focused on ‘the subculture of anti-Muslim bloggers and right-wing activists.’ Not ‘far-right activists’, or psychotic right-wing extremists, just ‘right-wing activists.’

    A leading left-wing British blogger decided that the real story of the Norway tragedy was that in his bizarre online manifesto, Breivik had quoted from articles by Melanie Phillips in the Daily Mail and Jeremy Clarkson in the Sunday Times. As with the Giffords aftermath, it was insinuated (and more) that conservative columnists are not merely people the left disagree with, but active facilitators of murder.

    Others attempted to draw a line from recent criticisms of multiculturalism voiced by Angela Merkel, Nicolas Sarkozy and David Cameron to the massacre of dozens of young Norwegians. Some, including the Independent, swiftly turned what spotlights they have on Geert Wilders and right-wing, anti-immigration parties in Scandinavia. Ken Livingstone’s former right-hand man, Lee Jasper, took the opportunity to claim that Breivik and Mayor Boris Johnson were eminently confusable. While Jasper was working for the old mayor, Livingstone had of course invited Yusuf al-Qaradawi (advocate of suicide-bombing and apocalyptic sectarian warfare) to London and given him the red-carpet treatment. But nothing to see there. Please move along and instead gawp with horror at this awful fact: Boris has the same hair colour as a murderer and he’s also a Conservative!

    The agendas as well as the hypocrisy are rank. Not least because the left are disobeying their own rules. In recent years, voices who have spoken out against Islamist extremism have constantly been berated not to ‘essentialise’ Muslims. I agree. It is idiotic and improper to lump any large and disparate group of people together. It is why so many caveats, so many ‘ists’, ‘isms’ and ‘aren’ts’ are included in any article about Islamist extremism (there I go). But surely it should work in every direction?

    Just as it is wrong to lump all Muslims into a single homogenous block, is it not also wrong to group all white-working-class people together? Or conjoin all people worried about immigration or preserving their culture and label them: ‘racist’ or ‘extremist’? If essentialising is wrong one way then surely it should be wrong any way. But there is no quid pro quo.

    It is the same with ‘root causes’. Every time an Islamist explodes a bomb, we’re told by the left that we must ‘address the root causes’ behind the attack. By root causes they always mean whatever their particular political bugbear is, usually western foreign policy. Why no calls to address any root causes this time?

    And so the moral equivalence that swiftly becomes moral blindness grows.

    Some comparisons between Islamist extremists and Breivik are useful. They are certainly similar types of sicko (a fact I hope he comes to realise one day). But there are also salient differences. At least one must be that, in the wake of Breivik’s atrocity, not a single Christian leader, right-wing journalist or right-wing politician (including those cited by him) expressed anything other than condemnation and revulsion for his actions. No ‘ifs’ or ‘buts’. No ‘important to understand the wider context’ or ‘driven to despair’ nonsense. Just horror. Unlike the suicide bombers who gets shrines and public squares named after them, Breivik (like the Brick Lane/Soho bomber) will only be memorialised among a sick and covert coterie of extremist loners who, though undoubtedly dangerous, speak for no one.

    The unanimity of the reaction to Norway matters. But so does the nature of our response. Norway’s Prime Minister was right when he said that the response to this atrocity should be ‘more democracy, more openness, and more humanity’. Within that should be a careful effort not to give up the principles which some are now putting up for grabs.

    As people trawl the online activities of the Oslo killer looking for answers they will turn up the usual contradictions and obscenities of the terrorist mind. They may also stumble on opinions which are not by nature extremist and not always without foundation just because a sick and deranged man thought them right.

    There will remain ample and decent reasons for Europeans, including Norwegians, to be worried about the future of their countries, and good and honourable reasons to express concern about mass immigration and problems that can result from it. There are, it goes without saying, ways to discuss this. But in recent years that discussion has not always been as open as it should have been. Policies have not been explained to people and conspiracies have all too often sprung up where frank public discussion and a suitable measured political response could have cut them off at source.

    Conversation on vital topics was driven underground — and not only among the disenfranchised. I have lost count of the number of times that politicians of all parties have told me something only to say that of course they could never say any such thing in public. Such censorship, including self-censorship, hugely benefits extremists. Subterranean conversations are what people like Breivik thrive on, with their claims to membership of nonexistent mystical orders and their love-hate affairs with imaginary world conspiracies.

    Most of what is said in open debate is not to everybody’s taste. But, as John Stuart Mill argued in On Liberty, we must hear contrary opinions. Firstly, because what is otherwise kept from us may be true, or contain a portion of truth, and secondly because if our opinions go unchallenged then truth risks getting divorced from its rational roots and eventually becoming a dogma too feeble to sustain.

    As a result of the discussion that right- and left-wing writers and politicians have initiated in recent years, a number of serious errors in our society have been rectified and a number of important principles reiterated. This is a direct result of that freedom.

    One of the last things Breivik did before going on his killing spree was to appear on Twitter with a quote from Mill. The least of Breivik’s crimes that day was that he showed he didn’t understand Mill any more than he understood anyone else he quoted.

    To date, all Breivik will be remembered for is that in a few horrific hours he managed to rob so many people of the only thing truly worth anything — human life. It would be more than such a man should ever have accomplished if he now deprives us all of the conversation free societies must have if they are to remain free.
  • Re: Breivik and the right - Douglas Murray
     Reply #1 - July 30, 2011, 03:09 AM

    Murray definitely has a point. But why are people so eagerly try to demonize a group of people based on political beliefs? Is it an attempt to subjugate them?
  • Re: Breivik and the right - Douglas Murray
     Reply #2 - July 30, 2011, 04:28 AM

    He brings up many good points.

    As someone once said, there is a point at which the extreme-Left and extreme-Right converge and complete a full circle and meet with the same level of extremism and intolerance. As a general rule, I tend to think extremist politics are dirty politics.

    This sort of thing reminds me of a time in which I was debating with some people about gay rights in the Middle East on a liberal gay rights blog, and person A said "why is it that some of these people think they can fix a problem with gays by killing them" to which a gay person - person B - replied, "there's no need to be Islamophobic". How can you instantly invalidate any legitimate criticism as a case of "Islamophobia".

    What's worse is that the same person - person B - went on and spoke about the intolerance of Paganism of all religions, and finally said he thought "Christians were inherently bigoted".

    As a general rule, all religions should be criticised where they deserve it, but somehow gay bloggers investing time in mud-slinging at Paganism and then two sentences down calling Islam a religion of peace shows me how distorted the situation has become.

    F.Y.I., I did end up accusing person B of Paganophobia, to which he called me illiberal and told me to shut up.

    I think Anders is disgusting, the complete sum of what can be described as disgusting. Though, I don't think it should create a taboo out of topics like immigration because the reason BNP and other nutcase parties have the "credibility" they have amongst a growing amount of people in the UK is because Labor and other parties create a taboo out of topics that need to be talked about openly and not batted away.
  • Re: Breivik and the right - Douglas Murray
     Reply #3 - July 30, 2011, 08:11 AM

    Excellent article.  Afro


    I love the way the right is desperately trying to dissociate what Breivik did with the views they hold so dear - even though he spelled them out in fucking black and white in his manifesto!.

    Yes of course Breivik was obviously a madman - just as anyone who slaughters innocent people is - but the fact is that he was motivated by the views of the likes of Robert Spencer, Pam Geller, Geert Wilders and the rest of the right-Muslim-hateing-wingnuts. He quotes all these people as well as faithfreedom in his manifesto which reads like so many posts I have seen on faithfreedom. It is the fear and paranoia and misinformation that these scumbags spread that push people like him over the edge. When I used to read faithfreedom back in the day I said EXACTLY that - and it was clear that some posters there were ready to start their "cleansing" of dem Muzzies and Marxists!

    Oh and btw HO - why on earth don't you fuck off to faithfreedom?
  • Re: Breivik and the right - Douglas Murray
     Reply #4 - July 30, 2011, 09:17 AM

    Nobody needs to fuck off anywhere. 

    Murray makes some good points, but I'd prefer it if he both acknowledged and condemned the scaremongering about muslims and immigration coming from some quarters on the right.  Alot of it is coming from ultra right Christian fundamentalists whose agenda has nothing in common with Murray's even, let alone ours.  Christian fundies love scare campaigns - a decade ago it was Satanists coming to rape your women and eat your babies, now its muslims.  Murray and others on the right need to tackle and debunk that nonsense in the same way that they demand muslims tackle the fundies within the muslim community.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Breivik and the right - Douglas Murray
     Reply #5 - July 30, 2011, 09:23 AM

    Good post Cheetah.  Afro
  • Re: Breivik and the right - Douglas Murray
     Reply #6 - July 30, 2011, 09:24 AM

    Thank you.    Smiley

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Breivik and the right - Douglas Murray
     Reply #7 - July 30, 2011, 09:31 AM

    I'd prefer it if he both acknowledged and condemned the scaremongering about muslims and immigration coming from some quarters on the right.  Alot of it is coming from ultra right Christian fundamentalists whose agenda has nothing in common with Murray's even, let alone ours.  Christian fundies love scare campaigns - a decade ago it was Satanists coming to rape your women and eat your babies, now its muslims.  Murray and others on the right need to tackle and debunk that nonsense in the same way that they demand muslims tackle the fundies within the muslim community.


    Sadaqa Allahu al-Azeem!  Afro

    HO - comment?
  • Re: Breivik and the right - Douglas Murray
     Reply #8 - July 30, 2011, 11:00 AM


    You don't have to say that FFI  types are wrong because they are quoted by the Oslo terrorist - they are wrong in their own right, because their proportionality and generality is wrong.

    That they hold to absolute correspondances between certain theology and ideologies and adherents to Islam becomes a totality of vision that disallows for nuance or space or differentiation, and begins to mirror the totality and absolutism of vision that those they claim to speak against profess. It doesn't just risk categorising individuals in a certain way, it leads to an intellectual tyranny too.

    Islamists view Muslims as an undifferentiated mass for whom they speak and to whom a direct causal chain between Islamist ideology and believer must be asserted and implied. As far as I can see, that basic premise is shared by the FFI-ists.




    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Breivik and the right - Douglas Murray
     Reply #9 - July 30, 2011, 11:05 AM

    This sort of thing reminds me of a time in which I was debating with some people about gay rights in the Middle East on a liberal gay rights blog, and person A said "why is it that some of these people think they can fix a problem with gays by killing them" to which a gay person - person B - replied, "there's no need to be Islamophobic". How can you instantly invalidate any legitimate criticism as a case of "Islamophobia".


    Hi Unechance,  have you ever thought about linguistics, phrases and idioms? They are very telling about ideas. For example, in Japan they don't say shut up, they say "it's loud" as a way of subtly point out it is better to be calm than be unable to control one's anger. Well, in the same way, the emergence of this word, "Islamaphobia" is very telling: there are negative truths about Islam that hurt certain people's perception of our reality so much they have to resort to this word to justify senseless levels of multiculturalism and unjustifiable pluralism sometimes (I think). I stared a topic the other day on another set of words: coconuts, oreos (as in the biscuit) and bounty (the chocolate bar). My point being - linguistics can reveal a lot about the flow of prejudices, "Us Vs Them" thinking and the general lack of foresight of cultural values (with those specific words).

    Nobody needs to fuck off anywhere.  


    Appreciated  Smiley Shame these threads get personal ...

    Murray makes some good points, but I'd prefer it if he both acknowledged and condemned the scaremongering about muslims and immigration coming from some quarters on the right. ... Murray and others on the right need to tackle and debunk that nonsense in the same way that they demand muslims tackle the fundies within the muslim community.


    Murray, has said it pretty obviously: "Don't fall for it from the right and don't fall for it from the left". ~ Something among those lines.

    While the CSC has published articles on debunking right far right nutters such as the EDL, e.g.:

    http://www.socialcohesion.co.uk/blog/2009/09/hooligans-racists-bigots-we-dont-want-your-help.html#more

    ... I would argue the situation is a lot more complicated than the need for Murray to, "acknowledged and condemned the scaremongering about muslims and immigration coming from some quarters on the right".

    There are extremely valid critical questions regarding assimilation of Muslim nation immigrants, multiculturalism and the growing impact and influence of political Islam in Europe and the UK which end up causing groups like the EDL to rise.

    Is Murray anti-EDL? Well, of course.
    Is Murray a lot smarter to understand the underlying reasons for such an emergence of groups like the EDL? Well I certainly think so.
    Does Murray understand the need for autonomy in discussion and how the Left consistently try to debate only on their terms? I think he gets this very well and this is what he tries to point out very clearly in his article.

    It is complex and it is not black and white.

    Oh and btw HO - why on earth don't you fuck off to faithfreedom?


    I find it very alarming Hassan, when people dislike to argue the point and resort not only to personal attacks but to tell them they are not welcome to make legitimate arguments you personally do not agree with.
  • Re: Breivik and the right - Douglas Murray
     Reply #10 - July 30, 2011, 11:26 AM

    Quote
    It is complex and it is not black and white.


    Its always complex, HO, its never black and white.  But there are some red flags we should be heeding here.  The Eurabia crowd with their innaccurate figures and scare campaigns about muslims taking over Europe are a familiar group of men just wearing slightly different hats.  Not only are they using many of the same tactics as the proponents of Satanic Panic were using a decade ago, in some cases they're exactly the same individuals.

    Its a red herring to say that I'm in any way discouraging debate about multiculturalism etc, when I point out that some of the elements mixed up in this debate are sporting the mentality of a witch hunt.  If a muslim spouts a version of Islam which involves taking over the west and instituting Sharia law, these people will use his words as evidence that muslims are a threat.  If a muslim says he doesn't want to take over the west or want Sharia law, that becomes evidence that muslims practice taqqiyya as part of their campaign to take over the west, and are therefore a threat.  That's not any attempt to have a valid debate about complex social issues, its an attempt to scare the pants off people.

    The misinformation and scaremongering of that lobby needs to be thoroughly debunked by saner and more responsible voices on the right, just as the Anjem Choudrays and his ilk need to be challenged and debunked by their fellow muslims.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Breivik and the right - Douglas Murray
     Reply #11 - July 30, 2011, 11:36 AM


    I broadly agree with your post Cheetah.

    I just wanted to add that the FFI / EDL tendency are mirrored by more than just the Anjum Chaudhry types. The Salafis, Jamaat-e-Islami, Ikhwan, Tableegis, and possibly even some forms of Deobandism are the actual proponents of a kind dogma that accords with FFI-ism. Anjum is the tabloid pantomine villain. Focussing on him detracts from that to a certain extent, and that is part of the problem. Too many are blind, either wilfully, or deliberately, to their influence and activism.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Breivik and the right - Douglas Murray
     Reply #12 - July 30, 2011, 12:23 PM

    Its a red herring to say that I'm in any way discouraging debate about multiculturalism etc, when I point out that some of the elements mixed up in this debate are sporting the mentality of a witch hunt.


    No no, I'm not saying you are discouraging debate to point out these things. They are good to point out and that is fine.

    The misinformation and scaremongering of that lobby needs to be thoroughly debunked by saner and more responsible voices on the right


    I agree with your post. To help me understand, what specific examples do you wish to see more of from right voices?

    And on a similar note:

    http://www.thecommentator.com/index.php/article/333/huffington_post_uk_runs_into_smears_accusations_over_norwegian_massacre

    Quote
    Less than a month after launching in the United Kingdom, the Huffington Post UK has blundered into a potentially damaging scandal after smearing right-wing writers for their alleged reticence in condemning Norwegian mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik.

    In an article entitled, “Breivik: The Strange Silence of Right-Wing Bloggers” Charles Delalande castigated London Mayor Boris Johnson for saying that Breivik’s actions were not motivated by “ideology or religion" but by sexual inadequacy. This, he said, was in stark contrast, with Johnson’s appraisal that “Islam is the problem” in the wake of the July 7, 2005 bombings on the London transport system.

    But Delalande reserved his most vitriolic remarks for Douglas Murray, Melanie Phillips, The Spectator, and Standpoint Magazine accusing them of being conspicuously slow or entirely silent on the matter with the strong inference that this is because they have some degree of common cause with a fellow exponent of “Christian cultural conservatism”.

    In two angry phone calls with Huffpo staffers, Douglas Murray, associate director at the Henry Jackson Society, described the inference as scurrilous, adding that to accuse someone of not having written publicly about such recent events was a smear of the lowest order. Murray, in any case, has written a piece on the subject which is slated to appear in a respected publication over the weekend.

    In the second phone call, heard by The Commentator, he asked a Huffpo staffer whether he had written anything about the Madrid train bombings which took place in 2004. He hadn’t, more than seven years after the bombings took place!

    Murray warned the Huffpo that its time in Britain would be short if it persisted in libeling people in this manner.

    At which point, the Huffington Post agreed to remove references to Murray from the story.

    However, accusations against Boris Johnson, Melanie Phillips, the Spectator and Standpoint remained up at the time of writing.

    In a the-lights-are-on-but-nobody’s-home sort of way the bio of the author of the article says that he “is writing a novel about the ideological roots of militant Islam which he hopes will make people less worried and a bit happier”.


    In reference to this article:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/charles-delalande/breivik-the-strange-silen_b_909740.html
  • Re: Breivik and the right - Douglas Murray
     Reply #13 - July 30, 2011, 01:21 PM

    Quote
    I agree with your post. To help me understand, what specific examples do you wish to see more of from right voices?


    The main two would be the demographics misinformation and the taqqiyya paranoia being debunked.  When voices outside the right, eg ourselves or the BBC, try and debunk these things we're not listened to.  Murray, Phillips and others like that would be taken more seriously.

    Sounds like some on the left are on a little witch hunt of their own....  Roll Eyes

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Breivik and the right - Douglas Murray
     Reply #14 - July 30, 2011, 01:58 PM

    Cheetah:


    I totally agree with you. But this happens when the Left doesnt take Islam serious. You will have Christian fundamentalist posterboys (and girls) as Douglas Murray, Wafa Sultan and Ayaan Hirsi Ali who dont understand that they are being used by Christian fundies.

    The Left used to be genuinely critical towards religion. And it should go back to its roots.

    "Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all
            Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

    - John Keats
  • Re: Breivik and the right - Douglas Murray
     Reply #15 - July 30, 2011, 01:59 PM

    I broadly agree with your post Cheetah.

    I just wanted to add that the FFI / EDL tendency are mirrored by more than just the Anjum Chaudhry types. The Salafis, Jamaat-e-Islami, Ikhwan, Tableegis, and possibly even some forms of Deobandism are the actual proponents of a kind dogma that accords with FFI-ism. Anjum is the tabloid pantomine villain. Focussing on him detracts from that to a certain extent, and that is part of the problem. Too many are blind, either wilfully, or deliberately, to their influence and activism.




    +1

    "Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all
            Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

    - John Keats
  • Re: Breivik and the right - Douglas Murray
     Reply #16 - July 30, 2011, 04:21 PM

    The main two would be the demographics misinformation and the taqqiyya paranoia being debunked.  When voices outside the right, eg ourselves or the BBC, try and debunk these things we're not listened to.  Murray, Phillips and others like that would be taken more seriously.


    Demographics misinformation: the problem with this one is that while there were exacerbated scaremongering numbers (debunked by the BBC and The Economist) there are valid demographic issues when there is a lack of integration amidst high rates of immigration. Moreover, I don't find it practical for them to go on about debunking wrong claims when they can focus on the issues at hand whether it is multiculturalism or Sharia Law. But sure - if they had the time, it would be good for them to state how scaremongering tactics exists on the far right. In any case, I think Murray made that clear at a onelawforall conference not to fall for such rubbish whichever political spectrum it comes from:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebYZsg_qOcM&t=3m37s

    Taqqiyya paranoia: People get paranoid over this? Surely Daily Mail readers have better Islamic paranoia on a regular basis like "Sharia Zones"!  Cheesy

    Btw, I don't really like much of Phillips' views, especially on homosexuality. But that's another discussion.
  • Re: Breivik and the right - Douglas Murray
     Reply #17 - July 30, 2011, 06:17 PM

    Quote
    Demographics misinformation: the problem with this one is that while there were exacerbated scaremongering numbers (debunked by the BBC and The Economist) there are valid demographic issues when there is a lack of integration amidst high rates of immigration.


    What's that got to do with anything?  I'm not talking about valid demographic issues, I was answering your question about what issues the scaremongers should be tackled on.

    Quote
    Moreover, I don't find it practical for them to go on about debunking wrong claims when they can focus on the issues at hand whether it is multiculturalism or Sharia Law.


    I'm sure moderate muslims have better things to do with their time than tackle extremists too.

    Quote
    Taqqiyya paranoia: People get paranoid over this? Surely Daily Mail readers have better Islamic paranoia on a regular basis like "Sharia Zones"!


    Taqqiyya is one of the favoured claims of the ultra right Christian fundie crowd, but yes they could stop all that nonsense about Sharia Zones while they're at it.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Breivik and the right - Douglas Murray
     Reply #18 - July 30, 2011, 06:26 PM

    Demographics misinformation: the problem with this one is that while there were exacerbated scaremongering numbers (debunked by the BBC and The Economist)


    Did you read what Cheetah said?

    Why no debunking from your idols on the far-right?

    Breivik soaked all that shit up and was scared shitless of 'Muzzies' taking over - if Spencer and his gang did not play into it rather than being honest perhaps that would have lessened his fears and paranoia!

    Taqqiyya paranoia: People get paranoid over this?


    I don't believe for one minute that you don't know right-wing Muslim-hating-fuckwits aren't paranoid about this. The dishonesty and selective biased vision in everything you write makes my blood boil.

    btw Did you read Breivik's manifesto? He specifically mentions Taqiyya.

  • Re: Breivik and the right - Douglas Murray
     Reply #19 - July 30, 2011, 07:17 PM

    @Hassan

    No, righter-wingers like Phillips, Geller and Spencer are not my idols.

    No, I've not read the full 1,500 pages of the manifesto.

    Yes, I was ignorant about Taqqiyya. I would say many Muslims don't know about it too probably.
  • Re: Breivik and the right - Douglas Murray
     Reply #20 - July 30, 2011, 07:34 PM

    Sounds like some on the left are on a little witch hunt of their own....  Roll Eyes

    I am a bit slow sometimes. What exactly do you mean by that?

    The Left used to be genuinely critical towards religion. And it should go back to its roots.

    The Left is not homogeneous. But you are right, most of the mainstream forces on the left side of the political spectrum in the UK and in Europe are stuck in defending ethnic particularism and group rights. Strange.
  • Re: Breivik and the right - Douglas Murray
     Reply #21 - July 30, 2011, 07:48 PM

    I was just referring to some of the comments from the Huffington Post.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Breivik and the right - Douglas Murray
     Reply #22 - July 30, 2011, 07:51 PM

    I'm having difficulty finding Breiviks manifesto.  Can someone PM me a link to it please?

    .
  • Re: Breivik and the right - Douglas Murray
     Reply #23 - July 30, 2011, 07:53 PM

    One must learn from all sides... no one is right, no one is perfect and no one is unquestionable.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7jaZaJT3Ig


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1xj17AzHEE


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjLZ5J61-lQ&NR=1

    Boy!  Rahila Gupta came along way from South African Islam to Anti Islamic Crusade.,  She looks stunning., an she says with a great clarity.,

    ..Black eyed hourie.. Sorry Rahila.. lol..   

    She is indeed right that war on terror actually hurt those who criticize Islam.  specially those who are trying their best get out of Islamic countries.  They get hit from both sides., Islamized brain dead Muslim will hit you(in fact they kill you).,   and  Because of that Muslim name,  immigration official will hit you again by throwing your papers in to dust bin.. because .. because you have Muslim name..

    lucky for those Ex-Muslims who are born in west.. They can talk.,   talk openly.. they can fly .. fly openly..,   because  they are born in west and   have western passports..

    Fuck it.. fuck you all..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Breivik and the right - Douglas Murray
     Reply #24 - July 30, 2011, 07:59 PM

    I'm having difficulty finding Breiviks manifesto.  Can someone PM me a link to it please?


    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=16767.msg468472#msg468472


    It would be nice to make a video on the tube on thsoe young people who are murdered by this brutal ROGUE cold heatedly  for no good reason and they had done nothing to him..


    Bano Rashid, 18, is the first victim to be buried   ...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Breivik and the right - Douglas Murray
     Reply #25 - July 30, 2011, 08:06 PM

    @yeez

    In the last video of that post of yours above did Rahila Gupta express an understanding for EDL position or what? I was under the impression that Shiraz Maher challenged her on that particular ground?
  • Re: Breivik and the right - Douglas Murray
     Reply #26 - July 30, 2011, 08:12 PM

    @yeez

    In the last video of that post of yours above did Rahila Gupta express an understanding for EDL position or what? I was under the impression that Shiraz Maher challenged her on that particular ground?

    Kenan  I am drunkk.. i post some shit..

    the only thing I know is

    "No one in UNQUESTIONABLE.." and I want freedom to criticize everything .. even the thing that looks good.. And I want to fly.. fly away...  goo night... 

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Breivik and the right - Douglas Murray
     Reply #27 - July 30, 2011, 08:40 PM

    yeezee is drunk, how many of your posts are written under the influence  Grin


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Breivik and the right - Douglas Murray
     Reply #28 - July 30, 2011, 08:45 PM


    Powerful speech by Rahila Gupta.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Breivik and the right - Douglas Murray
     Reply #29 - July 30, 2011, 08:48 PM

    @yeez

    In the last video of that post of yours above did Rahila Gupta express an understanding for EDL position or what? I was under the impression that Shiraz Maher challenged her on that particular ground?


    No, the video goes straight to Shiraz Maher, and he is addressing someone else in the audience.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

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