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Theme Changer

 Topic: Back to being a Muslim

 (Read 22779 times)
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  • Re: Back to being a Muslim
     Reply #180 - July 17, 2011, 11:39 PM
    Quote from: Maria on July 17, 2011, 11:19 PM
    1.) Yes

    How do you square your belief in evolution with your belief in the creation of Adam and Hawa (from whom all mankind supposedly descended)?

    Quote from: Maria on July 17, 2011, 11:19 PM
    2.) None. Belief is voluntary.

    3.) None. Time will tell.

    Cool.  At least you're honest.
    You have hereby implicitly admitted that your religion is as true as the religion of the Sikari tribe. Wink
    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: Back to being a Muslim
     Reply #181 - July 17, 2011, 11:51 PM
    Quote from: Alex Lam Meem on July 17, 2011, 11:38 PM
    arrogant humbleness.


    lol I like that - but musivore is truly a sweetie  Smiley
  • Re: Back to being a Muslim
     Reply #182 - July 17, 2011, 11:56 PM
    Quote from: ateapotist on July 17, 2011, 11:39 PM
    the Sikari tribe. Wink


    The really funny thing is that we should think this myth anymore man-made than those of Islam, Christianity or other major religions.
  • Re: Back to being a Muslim
     Reply #183 - July 17, 2011, 11:58 PM
    How do you square your belief in evolution with your belief in the creation of Adam and Hawa (from whom all mankind supposedly descended)?

    I think they both have their place - creation and evolution.

    Evolution does not necessarily contradict Islam. There still

    is some outstanding scientific debate about Darwin's theory.

    Science and God go hand in hand. Science is just another

    creation.
  • Re: Back to being a Muslim
     Reply #184 - July 18, 2011, 12:07 AM
    evoultion and creationism controdict each other. you can't have it both ways. so how come can you reconcile evolution and adam and hawa?

    also evoultion is a widly accepted scientfic thoery. There is no debate about it in the scinetfic coumnity.



    Lost somewhere between immensity and eternity is our tiny planetary home. [carl sagan]
  • Re: Back to being a Muslim
     Reply #185 - July 18, 2011, 12:26 AM
    I respectfully disagree. I believe evolution is God's creation.

    Adam and Hawa were the first humans on Earth according

    to the Quran. They started the human race.
  • Re: Back to being a Muslim
     Reply #186 - July 18, 2011, 12:29 AM
    ^  @Maria:
    So humans didn't evolve but everything else did?  Why do you believe that?  Because of your holy book or because of scientific evidence?
    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: Back to being a Muslim
     Reply #187 - July 18, 2011, 12:40 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on July 17, 2011, 11:56 PM
    The really funny thing is that we should think this myth anymore man-made than those of Islam, Christianity or other major religions.


    In analogy, when we are forced to construct an historical narrative

    about the origin of animal diversity, we need the equivalent of an

    origin myth to serve as a convenient departure point for stories of

    evolutionary divergence.
  • Re: Back to being a Muslim
     Reply #188 - July 18, 2011, 12:49 AM
    Evoultion is a blind watchmaker as put by the evoultionary bilogist Richard Dawkins. The final out come isn't planed one way or another.


    Also Adam and hawa never existed in acctullity. There was no "first human".

    If you think other wise please provide proof for the existence of Adam and eve Smiley.




    Lost somewhere between immensity and eternity is our tiny planetary home. [carl sagan]
  • Re: Back to being a Muslim
     Reply #189 - July 18, 2011, 12:49 AM
    Quote from: Maria on July 18, 2011, 12:26 AM
    I respectfully disagree. I believe evolution is God's creation.

     Adam and Hawa were the first humans on Earth  according

    to the Quran. They started the human race.

    really??   Adam and Hawa were the first humans on Earth  
    Is this "Hawa" female?? you mean "AIR"?  " Oxygen in the air is named as "Hawa"?? Hmm interesting science in Quran.,  

    So Adam equal to four things ..earth + water +fire + ether and the Hawa= Air., Combination of these five things makes life  and life made human beings.. is that the secret  behind your statement dear Maria??

    Well Quran is NOT a book of science Maria., it is just book with lots parables.. you can not take that as literal word and manual of science..
       
     
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Back to being a Muslim
     Reply #190 - July 18, 2011, 12:50 AM
    Maria,

    There is no way to argue that creationism makes more sense than or is compatible with evolution, shattered is completely right. I have tried to reconcile evolution (once I understood it) with the Koran myself in a similar fashion - at some point we evolved into humans... The real problem for such thinking I believe is that there are hundreds of ayas in the Koran that make no sense if you believe in evolution and not in creationism.
    "That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
  • Re: Back to being a Muslim
     Reply #191 - July 18, 2011, 01:02 AM
    No one can argue with the fact that human life is subject to

    much change and evolution, but most of this evolution revolves

    around the environment of the human being rather than the

    human being himself. The essence of man remains the same.

    For example, Adam was persuaded by Shaitan, through the

    instinct of the love of immortality and eternity, to eat from

    the tree. This instinct is still present in his children and still

    makes them commit other contraventions.


  • Re: Back to being a Muslim
     Reply #192 - July 18, 2011, 01:05 AM
    Quote from: Skeptic on July 18, 2011, 12:49 AM
    Evoultion is a blind watchmaker as put by the evoultionary bilogist Richard Dawkins. The final out come isn't planed one way or another.


    Also Adam and hawa never existed in acctullity. There was no "first human".

    If you think other wise please provide proof for the existence of Adam and eve Smiley.



    There is no way I can provide proof of Adam and Eve. That would be

    an impossible task.
  • Re: Back to being a Muslim
     Reply #193 - July 18, 2011, 01:11 AM
    Quote from: Maria on July 18, 2011, 01:02 AM
    No one can argue with the fact that human life is subject to

    much change and evolution, but most of this evolution revolves

    around the environment of the human being rather than the

    human being himself. The essence of man remains the same.

    For example, Adam was persuaded by Shaitan, through the

    instinct of the love of immortality and eternity, to eat from

    the tree. This instinct is still present in his children and still

    makes them commit other contraventions.





    That is not entierly ture. Things change one example is morlaity. People thought slavery was alright but now it has bainished from the indstralise word. People thought it was okay to kill someone just beacuse they question there fiath. Classic case dates back to when catholic church was in rule and no one was aloud to challange em.

    things are chaging women have more right so things have changed we don't have the sabe habbits.

    Random mutiation effects humans. So your argument "humans aren't effectred by change only there enviorment is" is wrong.



    Lost somewhere between immensity and eternity is our tiny planetary home. [carl sagan]
  • Re: Back to being a Muslim
     Reply #194 - July 18, 2011, 11:26 AM
    Quote from: Maria on July 17, 2011, 01:38 AM
    I agree with you to some degree. God is merciful to his followers.


    Yeah, so why worship him at all, then? What makes Allah different from Hitler? (except for the obvious omni-ness) In fact, it's much worse.


    Youtube
  • Re: Back to being a Muslim
     Reply #195 - July 18, 2011, 11:28 AM
    Quote from: Maria on July 17, 2011, 11:58 PM
    There still is some outstanding scientific debate about Darwin's theory.





    Which would be?


    Youtube
  • Re: Back to being a Muslim
     Reply #196 - July 18, 2011, 12:21 PM
    highly recommend the dvd "Walking with Cavemen" and "The First Eve"

    VERY enlightening.
    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Back to being a Muslim
     Reply #197 - July 18, 2011, 12:36 PM
    Quote from: Maria on July 18, 2011, 01:02 AM
    No one can argue with the fact that human life is subject to

    much change and evolution, but most of this evolution revolves

    around the environment of the human being rather than the

    human being himself. The essence of man remains the same.

    For example, Adam was persuaded by Shaitan, through the

    instinct of the love of immortality and eternity, to eat from

    the tree. This instinct is still present in his children and still

    makes them commit other contraventions.

    Darling,
    You have a habit of not answering the question and going off on a spiritual tangent.  The spiritual parables are cute, but can you please answer the questions. Smiley
    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: Back to being a Muslim
     Reply #198 - July 18, 2011, 01:59 PM
    Could you please at least try to type in paragraphs.
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: Back to being a Muslim
     Reply #199 - July 18, 2011, 03:02 PM
    Quote from: Maria on July 17, 2011, 11:19 PM
    2.) None. Belief is voluntary.


    No it isn't. Can you choose to believe in flying pigs?
  • Re: Back to being a Muslim
     Reply #200 - July 18, 2011, 03:20 PM
    Here I agree with Maria. I may choose to believe in the flying spaghetti monster (PBUH)
    Religion is organized superstition
  • Re: Back to being a Muslim
     Reply #201 - July 18, 2011, 03:21 PM
    So for the record, Hallakuf - you believe spaghetti created the Universe? If not, please believe it and come back to me.
  • Re: Back to being a Muslim
     Reply #202 - July 18, 2011, 03:28 PM
    I don't, but I might choose to do so. Wink
    Religion is organized superstition
  • Re: Back to being a Muslim
     Reply #203 - July 18, 2011, 03:31 PM
    I don't think you may, Hallakuf.
    Belief is something that develops automatically as you absorb information Smiley
    Your reason simply won't allow you to believe some things, regardless of how much you wish to.
    Have you heard the good news? There is no God!
  • Re: Back to being a Muslim
     Reply #204 - July 18, 2011, 03:41 PM
    This discussian started with Maria's remark "Belief is voluntary"
    I agree with you that you need information in order to be converted to believing someting, no matter if it is Zeus, God, Allah or the flying Spaghetti monster. But that's not enough, at least not with grown-up people. You still have to start believing, and that's voluntary. It's different with kids, though.
    Religion is organized superstition
  • Re: Back to being a Muslim
     Reply #205 - July 18, 2011, 03:57 PM
    Guess we're in disagreement, then.
    I for one can't just "choose" to believe in God, with my present convictions and knowledge. If a mind-reading gunmen took my family hostage right now, and told me that he will kill them all if I don't become a theist, I'd be powerless to stop him. I may pretend to believe in God, but that's just that; pretending.
    Have you heard the good news? There is no God!
  • Re: Back to being a Muslim
     Reply #206 - July 18, 2011, 04:13 PM
    Quote from: Hallakuf on July 18, 2011, 03:41 PM
    You still have to start believing, and that's voluntary


    No, belief is not voluntary. You can certainly choose to act or pretend that you believe - but that's not the same thing.

    For example, as stated above - you can't simply 'choose' to believe that spaghetti created the universe.

    There are of course lots of things where we have little evidence about and so you may be in doubt - but even then one doesn't simply close one's eyes and point, saying:

    "I choose to believe that, today!"

    For example Ghosts. I suspect some people here believe in Ghosts and some don't. I don't. The reason I don't is because I am that sort of person, I mean I don't see any evidence for them and my life experiences, upbringing etc... makes me less inclined to be superstitious. Others are different.

    Another example: I can't choose to believe in Christianity. I can however pretend I do and go to church. Especially if there is a beautiful Christian girl that I like there. Maybe my views will change. Maybe the Holy Spirit will descend on me and I will see the light. But I can't simply "Choose" to believe. The best I can do is make the environment and circumstances conducive to perhaps giving me the best opportunity to believe if my mind was ever able to do so.

    But I can't just choose to believe something. Belief itself is not voluntary.

    It always puzzles me when people can't see that, because to me it's obvious.
  • Re: Back to being a Muslim
     Reply #207 - July 18, 2011, 04:26 PM
    btw Have you seen this video. It touches on what I just said.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX3IBHf1oLY
  • Re: Back to being a Muslim
     Reply #208 - July 18, 2011, 04:51 PM
    Stray question: should we be held accountable for the things we believe in?

    I've seen plenty of defences of belief that attempt to use 'faith' as the highest-scoring card in a game of rhetorical top trumps, but all this tells me is that 'faith' is something that they find aesthetically pleasing. Of course, when one invokes an external cause in finding something beautiful, one thus spoils it; thus might a God punish believers in grammar..
    Before it gets too late, you will find escape.
  • Re: Back to being a Muslim
     Reply #209 - July 18, 2011, 04:56 PM
    It seems that religions in general know that they have a weak case in converting people. It is known in history that no religion ever became important by arguments alone. The Jews are merely a people, excluding everyone whose parents waren't Jews (one could say that they are in reality racists). Both Christians and Muslims have gained power and followers by violence and intimidation. As soon as Christians stopped that a few centurys ago they are in decline. Let's hope the Muslims will follow one day.
    Religion is organized superstition
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