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 Topic: Hitchens....Dawkins....Harris....

 (Read 9158 times)
  • 12 3 4 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Hitchens....Dawkins....Harris....
     OP - July 04, 2011, 02:10 PM

    So, I've been thinking about it-and I'm probably going to get called names, but are these guys really necessary? Ex-Muslims (atheists/agnostics in general) seem to automatically ally with these hyped up assholes simply because they happen to call themselves atheists and denounce religion-in the case of Dawkins, he is also a scientist so I can understand the following there (although he is a biologist so his authority on science should be limited to biology). Hitchens is a classic example, I can think of three people who still support the war in Iraq/Afghanistan, three people and 2 corporations, Cheney, Bush, Hitchens. The former two are complicit and venal, what's Hitchens' excuse? He is basically a neo-con, I don't know about you but anyone who considers themselves left of centre already knows that neo-cons are scum of the earth. Harris is basically a soft spoken Robert Spencer/if he weren't famous he'd be on FFI writing articles. Dawkins....less of a problem, but he has a one track mind, he's obsessed with religion. Don't get me wrong, religion can be an issue, but there are far greater issues at play, faith/superstition problems need to be remedied, but not at the expense of the glaring issues...economy, politics, environnment, war, overpopulation, resources, geopolitics etc etc...it seems all three men (and many other aggressive atheists) are only concerned with religion as some sort of fetish of theirs.

    I personally would much rather ally with a religious/semi-religious person like Chris Hedges (with whom I share political positions) than a neo-cunt like Hitchens (he may call himself a socialist-but we all know it's crap). I don't get why people insist on being part of an atheist/nontheist community, I can understand if you live in America, but in the UK and Europe there is no need, most people are non-religious, and it becomes as banal and trivial as whether you have a red car or whether your name is bob.

    Sorry if there is already a topic on this.

    And sorry for the rant.

    Let the name calling and mud slinging begin (and I apologise in advance to any right wingers I'm going to offend)

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Hitchens....Dawkins....Harris....
     Reply #1 - July 04, 2011, 02:22 PM

      Hitchens....Dawkins....Harris....

    So, I've been thinking about it-and I'm probably going to get called names, but are these guys really necessary?  

     these hyped up assholes

    he case of Dawkins, he is also a scientist so I can understand  he is a biologist so his authority on science should be limited to biology

    Hitchens is a classic example, I can think of three people who still support the war in Iraq/Afghanistan, three people and 2 corporations, Cheney, Bush, Hitchens. The former two are complicit and venal, what's Hitchens' excuse? He is basically a neo-con,


    he'd be on FFI writing articles.

    Dawkins....less of a problem, but he has a one track mind,

    You are right and interesting points dear interested212.. YAP THESE FOUR ARE BIGGEST ASS HOLES..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuyUz2XLp1E

    They should be steak fired.
    Quote

    Sorry  
    And sorry  
    Let the name calling and mud slinging begin (and I apologise in advance to any right wingers I'm going to offend)

    why are you feeling sorry dear interested212? fuck the  right wingers they are sickkos

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Hitchens....Dawkins....Harris....
     Reply #2 - July 04, 2011, 02:25 PM

    I'm not sure if this is sarcasm or not but I can't understand the sentiment behind your post, either way, I stand by what I said....I don't consider these guys 'sickkos' as you called them, but I do think it's wrong and inethical to view them as allies purely on the basis that they are atheists.

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Hitchens....Dawkins....Harris....
     Reply #3 - July 04, 2011, 02:27 PM

    Dawkins is a genius. I used to like Sam Harris, until he started to sound like a whiny pro-Christian neo-con cunt and promoting folks like Harsi. Few years ago I choose to boycott Hitchens he ignore every-single correspondence I ever tried to make with him, with regards to some of his views.
  • Re: Hitchens....Dawkins....Harris....
     Reply #4 - July 04, 2011, 02:46 PM

    I have been a strong atheist for many years now aswell as a previous advanced student in the field of Molecular Biology, so with Dawkins -- He's never really said anything that I wasn't already aware of years prior.

    With Hitchens, love the man on religion but I can safely say that I have never agreed with him politically, ever.
    (Although I have only seen him on such issues around a dozen times, to be fair).

    With Harris, I don't often hear much of him besides on Islam and Scientific morality so I have no negative issues as far as I am currently aware of. I also strongly agree with his views on Islam and consciousness.

    With Dennet, Don't even know the guy, almost never heard of him at any point, shouldn't really be one of the 'four horsemen' and should be replaced with James Randi who is far more known and prominent on such issues.
  • Re: Hitchens....Dawkins....Harris....
     Reply #5 - July 04, 2011, 04:03 PM

    I just wanted to post in a shit thread.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Hitchens....Dawkins....Harris....
     Reply #6 - July 04, 2011, 04:08 PM

    Thanks for the contribution, appreciated.

    Two rational options
    A) Prove how much of a retard I am with a response (not just a fantastic one liner)
    B) Stay out of the thread.

    Good to see you took the high ground.

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Hitchens....Dawkins....Harris....
     Reply #7 - July 04, 2011, 04:09 PM

    With Dennet, Don't even know the guy, almost never heard of him at any point, shouldn't really be one of the 'four horsemen' .................

    I didn't know that you didn't know Dan Dennet dear mighty_cats .. He is free will guy, a Humanist  read him http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Dennett and read  his books..

    Darwin's Dangerous Idea

    watch the video if you have time....

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9073555471451092793

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Hitchens....Dawkins....Harris....
     Reply #8 - July 04, 2011, 04:18 PM

    Dawkins I have no objection to. Snitchens is a scumbag, but I think people just like him cause he's witty, smart, and not afraid to tell it like it is when it comes to religion. I think Christopher Snitchens is a bad person, but he has made some positive (and ballsy) contributions such as his expose of Mother Theresa, and I'll admit sometimes when I hear him speak I say "Hell Yeah!" to myself cause he gets it right on the money sometimes.

    I agree though his politics suck. Don't know enough about Dawkins' politics to comment, but it should be noted, since you mention FFI, that the link to FFI was removed from his website when it was brought to his attention what a nasty den of bigotry that place actually is.

    "In battle, the well-honed spork is more dangerous than the mightiest sword" -- Sun Tzu
  • Re: Hitchens....Dawkins....Harris....
     Reply #9 - July 04, 2011, 04:21 PM

    I didn't know that you didn't know Dan Dennet dear mighty_cats .. He is free will guy, a Humanist  read him http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Dennett and read  his books..

    Darwin's Dangerous Idea

    watch the video if you have time....

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9073555471451092793



    Don't get me wrong, its not as if I've 'never' heard of him, I just find him horribly underexposed(media wise) by comparison to the other 3; Very much the case that where others are consistently on television, radio, debates and the internet, if we see Dennet in the background or on a TEDtalk, its almost a miracle.

    James Randi is incredibly popular in such circles and well known for his work; I feel this person would be a far better replacement and bring forth alot more attention to the group.
  • Re: Hitchens....Dawkins....Harris....
     Reply #10 - July 04, 2011, 04:22 PM

    I'm not sure if this is sarcasm or not but I can't understand the sentiment behind your post, either way, I stand by what I said....

    well that is very important to stand on what you said. People may disagree  with you., but there is absolutely nothing wrong questioning these guys or any one for that matter.

    Quote
    I don't consider these guys 'sickkos' as you called them, but I do think it's wrong and inethical to view them as allies purely on the basis that they are atheists.

    No..No it is not at all UNETHICAL., but in your words there are two problems., I) I said right wingers are 'sickkos' .,  unless you consider them as "right wingers" that word  doesn't apply to them.

    Next., I didn't get you " what actually do you mean by Allies"?? Are you thinking about Allies against Political Islam or Islam or about right wingers of Islam??

    But who is Chris Hedges?? and what is he talking about in this link.. please listen to him..

     http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/chris_hedges_speaks_on_osama_bin_ladens_death_20110502/

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHbl1cjXMaA

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Hitchens....Dawkins....Harris....
     Reply #11 - July 04, 2011, 04:23 PM

    Thanks for the contribution, appreciated.

    Two rational options
    A) Prove how much of a retard I am with a response (not just a fantastic one liner)
    B) Stay out of the thread.

    Good to see you took the high ground.

    Ok troll, I'll bite.

    How is it immoral to appreciate the work of these four men?


    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Hitchens....Dawkins....Harris....
     Reply #12 - July 04, 2011, 04:33 PM


    James Randi is incredibly popular in such circles and well known for his work; I feel this person would be a far better replacement and bring forth alot more attention to the group.

    Well James Randi is a TV guy., and he is popular because of his Magic shows on television  and Challenging Quakes and his challenging offer of 1 million dollars  to anyone that can demonstrate paranormal abilities under laboratory conditions.  But he is a great guy.. well we can make another horse.. or 100s of horses  ..lol..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CJp7owJ_NM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9w7jHYriFo

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Hitchens....Dawkins....Harris....
     Reply #13 - July 04, 2011, 04:41 PM

    Very much the case that where others are consistently on television, radio, debates and the internet, if we see Dennet in the background or on a TEDtalk, its almost a miracle


    No..No He is on Tedtalks..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nxv4LS-saSU

    and he did debate on TV but his health was NOT as good as the other guys except Christopher Hitchens Cancer...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Hitchens....Dawkins....Harris....
     Reply #14 - July 04, 2011, 07:24 PM

    I don't really follow what these new-atheist 'four horsemen' say, but from what little I have read of them, I'm not fond of any of them... save for Dawkins when he writes about biology. They seem to have a lot of fanboys/girls... but I just don't see it. *shrug*
  • Re: Hitchens....Dawkins....Harris....
     Reply #15 - July 04, 2011, 08:01 PM

    I don't really follow what these new-atheist 'four horsemen' say, but from what little I have read of them, I'm not fond of any of them... save for Dawkins when he writes about biology. They seem to have a lot of fanboys/girls... but I just don't see it. *shrug*


    well "Likes & dislikes"., fan boys & no fan boy or fan girls & no fan girls  is a personal choice dear prince..

    For e.g.  Caliph Abu Bakr(ra) liked Fatima  Prophet PBUH's daughter, wanted to marry her but , but apparently  prophet PBUH  didn't like that,  so he gave his daughter to Ali Ibn abu talib.., Where as Porphet PBUH liked  Abu Bakr's daughter and Abu Bakr liked & agreed for that ..  So  He gave away his daughter Aisha to Prophet PBUH

    What can we do? we can not do anything on personal likes and dislikes., What is important to figure out is what is truth what and Are they telling truth??

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Hitchens....Dawkins....Harris....
     Reply #16 - July 05, 2011, 01:25 AM

    .
  • Re: Hitchens....Dawkins....Harris....
     Reply #17 - July 05, 2011, 02:17 AM

    I agree with Prince Spinoza on this. I am especially not fan at all of Sam Harris. Sam Harris and C.Hitchens (partly) are apologists for Western imperialism. Just as Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Wafa Sultan are.

    Of course you can agree with their view on Islam (and religion in general).

    "Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all
            Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

    - John Keats
  • Re: Hitchens....Dawkins....Harris....
     Reply #18 - July 05, 2011, 02:18 AM

    I see James Randi is mentioned. James Randi  Afro

    "Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all
            Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

    - John Keats
  • Re: Hitchens....Dawkins....Harris....
     Reply #19 - July 05, 2011, 01:58 PM

    I don't really follow what these new-atheist 'four horsemen' say, but from what little I have read of them, I'm not fond of any of them... save for Dawkins when he writes about biology. They seem to have a lot of fanboys/girls... but I just don't see it. *shrug*


    Thank you-you've put it much better than I did, I'm generally against Hitchens (for political reasons) and Harris (ditto) but what annoys me is the fact that these horsemen are popular for talking about atheism, and that's their focus (one-trick ponies), it's nice to have someone who brings it up, but they do make careers out of  ''look at all those crazy christian fundamentalists'' or ''look at those muslim suicide terrorists'' while ignoring more important issues that need solving

    I agree with Prince Spinoza on this. I am especially not fan at all of Sam Harris. Sam Harris and C.Hitchens (partly) are apologists for Western imperialism. Just as Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Wafa Sultan are.

    Of course you can agree with their view on Islam (and religion in general).


    Exactly, Hitchens and Harris shouldn't 'really' be allies of left-thinking ex-Muslims, especially as they are imperialist apologist neo-cons, just because they say 'Islam is bad lol' doesn't make them friends of the 'ex-Muslim cause'.


    Oh and btw, anyone can say 'religion is evil', it doesn't take a genius to figure out that ideologies (including religions ones) can be dangerous, it's actually very common sense, so these men have really not done much at all in many cases.

    One thing that really grinds my gears (especially about Hitchens, but this applies to Harris and in a few cases Dawkins as well) is that they often play the atheist game as if it was a civil rights issue..I think it's very disrespectful to African Americans, the LGBT community, and other minorities who have fought/are fighting for their rights to compare atheism to civil rights.

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Hitchens....Dawkins....Harris....
     Reply #20 - July 05, 2011, 02:02 PM

    Quick note on Randi, I don't have a problem with him, I like skeptics, and he isn't politically involved (unlike Hitchens and Harris). Dawkins only made the shit list because he supported the private university which for me was inexcusable.

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Hitchens....Dawkins....Harris....
     Reply #21 - July 05, 2011, 02:13 PM

    Yeah, I keep hearing about this support for the big bad (scary music...) 'Western Imperialism' that Hitchens and Harris supposedly hold. Whenever anyone who mentions it is pressed, though, they either stutter a bit and say some half-arsed vague shit, or quote something they said about some specific war or political situation on some casual chat show once, or they just go right ahead and shamelessly quotemine a book or article they wrote.

    It all seems like straw-clutching, to be honest. Symptomatic of a deeper dislike for them.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Hitchens....Dawkins....Harris....
     Reply #22 - July 05, 2011, 02:31 PM

    Oops, I got carried away in this post! Ignore the below.  grin12
    It seems like a lot of Atheists worship Dawkins, Hitchens, and Harris as if they are Gods.

    From what I've seen in YouTube videos, Dawkins, Hitchens, and Harris are very arrogant and rude towards other religions.

    Instead of advocating hatred against religion they should be promoting UNITY between religious and non-religious people but I don't see them doing that. Instead they are making it look as if Atheists are above people who believe in a religion.
  • Re: Hitchens....Dawkins....Harris....
     Reply #23 - July 05, 2011, 02:39 PM

    ... Instead of advocating hatred against religion they should be promoting UNITY between religious and non-religious people but I don't see them doing that. Instead they are making it look as if Atheists are above people who believe in a religion.

    Well as you have the right to speak they(Atheists)  should have the same rights., Don't you agree with me Tmp?? 

    Tell me from their words(pick it from them) some of the statements from them that you think are the "Advocating Hatred Against Religion".,

     It is true that they are saying  "the religions and their scriptures are  outdated and their way of looking at this world and future humanity is better than what you see from religious books and religious preachers"

    Are they wrong in saying it? Should the governments and states BAN THEM??

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Hitchens....Dawkins....Harris....
     Reply #24 - July 05, 2011, 02:43 PM

    It seems like a lot of Atheists worship Dawkins, Hitchens, and Harris as if they are Gods.

    From what I've seen in YouTube videos, Dawkins, Hitchens, and Harris are very arrogant and rude towards other religions.

    Instead of advocating hatred against religion they should be promoting UNITY between religious and non-religious people but I don't see them doing that. Instead they are making it look as if Atheists are above people who believe in a religion.

    Is it worth asking you to explain or give examples of any of this stuff?

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Hitchens....Dawkins....Harris....
     Reply #25 - July 05, 2011, 02:48 PM

    So, I've been thinking about it-and I'm probably going to get called names, but are these guys really necessary? Ex-Muslims (atheists/agnostics in general) seem to automatically ally with these hyped up assholes simply because they happen to call themselves atheists and denounce religion-in the case of Dawkins, he is also a scientist so I can understand the following there (although he is a biologist so his authority on science should be limited to biology). Hitchens is a classic example, I can think of three people who still support the war in Iraq/Afghanistan, three people and 2 corporations, Cheney, Bush, Hitchens. The former two are complicit and venal, what's Hitchens' excuse? He is basically a neo-con, I don't know about you but anyone who considers themselves left of centre already knows that neo-cons are scum of the earth. Harris is basically a soft spoken Robert Spencer/if he weren't famous he'd be on FFI writing articles. Dawkins....less of a problem, but he has a one track mind, he's obsessed with religion. Don't get me wrong, religion can be an issue, but there are far greater issues at play, faith/superstition problems need to be remedied, but not at the expense of the glaring issues...economy, politics, environnment, war, overpopulation, resources, geopolitics etc etc...it seems all three men (and many other aggressive atheists) are only concerned with religion as some sort of fetish of theirs.

    I personally would much rather ally with a religious/semi-religious person like Chris Hedges (with whom I share political positions) than a neo-cunt like Hitchens (he may call himself a socialist-but we all know it's crap). I don't get why people insist on being part of an atheist/nontheist community, I can understand if you live in America, but in the UK and Europe there is no need, most people are non-religious, and it becomes as banal and trivial as whether you have a red car or whether your name is bob.

    Sorry if there is already a topic on this.

    And sorry for the rant.

    Let the name calling and mud slinging begin (and I apologise in advance to any right wingers I'm going to offend)


    They are necessary - someone has to say 'There's an elephant in the room'.  Those of a religious persuasion have been trying to poo-poo atheism for as long as I can remember and sweep it under the carpet. Try sweeping an elephant under the carpet.
    Most people need, nay must, be led by the nose to see what's on the end of it, I'm afraid. So the more people who are well qualified in some rational field or by dint having the power of persuasion, and common sense, and who tell it like it is, the better.
    Since the religious insanes of this world would rather have a clean sweep of the popular megaphone and can't anymore, it grips them off no end and so they go in for character assassination and come up with stupid things like 'irreducible complexity' and 'intelligent design'. When some one well qualified to do so points out their threadbare back biting, it's great as far as I'm concerned because the criticisms of littler beings are sneered at by them now that they don't have the power to actually burn any one to death any more or torture them or threaten them into recanting obvious truths, except in the Islamic world of course.
    What we need is a Perfect Storm of Dawkinses with a lot of hobnails from the Hitchenses. Long may they bitch about religion, or else how are the ordinary Joes like us going to know it's OK to disbelieve or criticise.

    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Hitchens....Dawkins....Harris....
     Reply #26 - July 05, 2011, 02:50 PM

    Quick note on Randi, I don't have a problem with him, I like skeptics, and he isn't politically involved (unlike Hitchens and Harris). Dawkins only made the shit list because he supported the private university which for me was inexcusable.

    Who else is there in your shit list interested212?? only these four guys??

     And what is the problem of Dawkins funding Private university to educate kids/students based on facts of  science/logic/rationality through HIS ATHEISM   when you have  100s of 1000s of faith based schools all over the world that too funded by Tax payers  money by their governments??  

    Are you jealous of these guys??  just curious..  or do you think that they very dangerous to the society??

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Hitchens....Dawkins....Harris....
     Reply #27 - July 05, 2011, 02:51 PM

    Yeah, I keep hearing about this support for the big bad (scary music...) 'Western Imperialism' that Hitchens and Harris supposedly hold. Whenever anyone who mentions it is pressed, though, they either stutter a bit and say some half-arsed vague shit, or quote something they said about some specific war or political situation on some casual chat show once, or they just go right ahead and shamelessly quotemine a book or article they wrote.

    It all seems like straw-clutching, to be honest. Symptomatic of a deeper dislike for them.


    Well, what qualifies a person as a supporter of Western Imperialism?
    Don't know about Harris, but I've heard Hitchens explicitly express his support for US involvement in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya. You can youtube his interviews, and judge for yourself.

    Have you heard the good news? There is no God!
  • Re: Hitchens....Dawkins....Harris....
     Reply #28 - July 05, 2011, 02:53 PM

    Well, what qualifies a person as a supporter of Western Imperialism?

    Don't ask me. I'm not the one making the claim.

    Don't know about Harris, but I've heard Hitchens explicitly express his support for US involvement in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya.

    Wait a sec... who doesn't support intervention in Libya?

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Hitchens....Dawkins....Harris....
     Reply #29 - July 05, 2011, 02:55 PM

    Who else is there in your shit list interested212?? only these four guys??

     And what is the problem of Dawkins funding Private university to educate kids/students based on facts of  science/logic/rationality through HIS ATHEISM   when you have  100s of 1000s of faith based schools all over the world that too funded by Tax payers  money by their governments??  

    Are you jealous of these guys??  just curious..  or do you think that they very dangerous to the society??


    Not jealous, and I don't believe they are harmful or dangerous to society, but I do believe they are A) novel B) relatively unimportant C) overrated (especially on forums like this). I think we have much bigger problems than religion and we need to start focusing on them, these guys are a distraction.

    Ishina, is there any reason you're still posting on a 'shit thread' by a 'troll', I thought this was beneath you?

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
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