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 Topic: "Aisha was NOT 9 when she got married"

 (Read 20406 times)
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  • Re: "Aisha was NOT 9 when she got married"
     Reply #90 - November 09, 2011, 07:37 PM

    Plain curious! Huh?

    Isn't approval of both the bride and the groom necessary for Nikah?

    In the verses (both from the Quran and the hadiths), people have quoted through the thread, it is stated, Aisha had no idea of what was going on around her. She was simply picked up, dressed up for 'something' and that's all about it. In that case, she had no idea that she was getting "Married".

  • Re: "Aisha was NOT 9 when she got married"
     Reply #91 - November 09, 2011, 07:39 PM

    Silence is interpreted as consent.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: "Aisha was NOT 9 when she got married"
     Reply #92 - November 09, 2011, 08:40 PM

    either way, it fails.  Cuz if she was 18, WHY did she bring her
    dolls with her?  And aren't there some ahadiths that say Mo
    approached while she was playing with her dolls, and asked
    what she was doing, and she said something about horses
    and a battle or to that effect.

    So either Mo was a pedo, or Aisha was committing Idolatry
    with Mo's APPROVAL!

    /end of

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: "Aisha was NOT 9 when she got married"
     Reply #93 - November 09, 2011, 08:42 PM

    Bahahaha!  Now they made the video private LOL
    i wonder why?   Cheesy

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: "Aisha was NOT 9 when she got married"
     Reply #94 - November 10, 2011, 03:19 AM

     :thnkyu:Please provide theories, since I never saw the video. Huh? thnkyu

    Interested in Buddhism? Check out http://www.accesstoinsight.org/!
    Consider Nalanda University, and never let it happen again.
  • Re: "Aisha was NOT 9 when she got married"
     Reply #95 - November 10, 2011, 08:24 AM

    Silence of a virgin = consent, and only Abu Bakr had to consent to the marriage in this case. 
  • Re: "Aisha was NOT 9 when she got married"
     Reply #96 - November 10, 2011, 12:39 PM

    But the silence that is interpreted as consent, has been interpreted for the sake of convenience.

    In any case, the little girl, had no idea, of what was going on. And marriage, is not a child's play, literally!

    And even if it was for political reasos, P. Muhammad - the ideal MAN, could have made the situation ideal, by marrying Aisha, to serve the purpose BUT avoiding consummating the relationship! Solutions, are always there, for people who want to find one! But perhaps, he clearly knew what he wanted, so he not only married a child, but also did the most horrendous act with her.  Cry

    And even if they claim, the consummation was for the purpose of procreation, is a 9 year old's body even ready to carry a baby for 9 months?!?!  Even women, go through severe complications. So, what was the hurry? I completely fail to understand this.  Cry

    Really, no matter what justifications, the Muslims offer,  this act of P. Muhammad fails to impress even the most ordinary of us human beings. More so, as a woman, since I find it completely repulsive!  Cry

  • Re: "Aisha was NOT 9 when she got married"
     Reply #97 - November 10, 2011, 12:44 PM

    He was a twat. End of.
  • Re: "Aisha was NOT 9 when she got married"
     Reply #98 - November 10, 2011, 01:44 PM

    either way, it fails.  Cuz if she was 18, WHY did she bring her
    dolls with her?  And aren't there some ahadiths that say Mo
    approached while she was playing with her dolls, and asked
    what she was doing, and she said something about horses
    and a battle or to that effect.


    So either Mo was a pedo, or Aisha was committing Idolatry
    with Mo's APPROVAL!

    /end of


    From what I know the dolls and her unicorn toy thing isn't seen as Idolatry because they didn't have facial features.

    @ thread

    Aisha was engaged to someone else before she married Mo and she participated in the battle of uhud so I don't think she was 9.
  • Re: "Aisha was NOT 9 when she got married"
     Reply #99 - November 10, 2011, 02:09 PM

    From what I know the dolls and her unicorn toy thing isn't seen as Idolatry because they didn't have facial features.

    @ thread

    Aisha was engaged to someone else before she married Mo and she participated in the battle of uhud so I don't think she was 9.


    I have heard of children being promised to be married to a certain individual chosen by the parents before so her being engaged to someone doesn't prove that she was older than 9. As for the Battle of Uhud does it say how she helped in it? Couldn't other children have also helped in it behind the scenes?

    Don't authentic Hadith even mention the ages 6 and 9? I don't think her age has been disputed till recent times because of the accusation of peodophillia by non Muslims. It's one of the more disgusting and embarrassing things Muhammad did so Muslims in the west want tojustify it or change the facts somehow. Doesn't seem like the ulema in the east have a problem with fucking 9 year olds.

    -------------------
    Believe in yourself
    -------------------
    Strike me down and I'll just become another nail in your coffin
    -------------------
    There's such a thing as sheep in wolfs clothing... religious fanatics
  • Re: "Aisha was NOT 9 when she got married"
     Reply #100 - November 10, 2011, 02:48 PM

    I have heard of children being promised to be married to a certain individual chosen by the parents before so her being engaged to someone doesn't prove that she was older than 9.



    True it doesn't.


    As for the Battle of Uhud does it say how she helped in it? Couldn't other children have also helped in it behind the scenes?Don't authentic Hadith even mention the ages 6 and 9? I don't think her age has been disputed till recent times because of the accusation of peodophillia by non Muslims. It's one of the more disgusting and embarrassing things Muhammad did so Muslims in the west want tojustify it or change the facts somehow. Doesn't seem like the ulema in the east have a problem with fucking 9 year olds.


    She treated the injured and carried buckets of water or something. Children according to sharia law cannot participated in jihad in any way. Boys past puberty can only fight and girls past puberty can help. Yes so called 'sahih' hadith say she was 6 at the time of marriage and 9 when it was consummated, other 'sahih' hadith mention she was 10 years younger than her older sister, if you use the hadith about her sister dying at a certain age in a certain year and calculate Aisha's age that way you come up with a figure of something between 17-21 during the time of consummation (after hijrah) There's stuff about her. I don't know if her age was disputed in the past. No they don't have a problem with it because there is no age limit in Islam.

    I don't care if she was 9 or 18, he was just doing what people did in 7th century Arabia, certainly not a man who should be followed by all for all times till the end but not a monster paedo either.
  • Re: "Aisha was NOT 9 when she got married"
     Reply #101 - November 10, 2011, 10:49 PM

    Paedophilia relativism.  Really?

    Against the ruin of the world, there
    is only one defense: the creative act.

    -- Kenneth Rexroth
  • Re: "Aisha was NOT 9 when she got married"
     Reply #102 - November 10, 2011, 10:52 PM

    True it doesn't.


    She treated the injured and carried buckets of water or something. Children according to sharia law cannot participated in jihad in any way. Boys past puberty can only fight and girls past puberty can help. Yes so called 'sahih' hadith say she was 6 at the time of marriage and 9 when it was consummated, other 'sahih' hadith mention she was 10 years younger than her older sister, if you use the hadith about her sister dying at a certain age in a certain year and calculate Aisha's age that way you come up with a figure of something between 17-21 during the time of consummation (after hijrah) There's stuff about her. I don't know if her age was disputed in the past. No they don't have a problem with it because there is no age limit in Islam.

    I don't care if she was 9 or 18, he was just doing what people did in 7th century Arabia, certainly not a man who should be followed by all for all times till the end but not a monster paedo either.


    What evidence is there that fucking a 9 year old was common back then? I've heard historical accounts of marriages of 'women' aged 12-16.. but rarely 9 year olds.

    Formerly known as Iblis
  • Re: "Aisha was NOT 9 when she got married"
     Reply #103 - November 10, 2011, 11:12 PM

    Im more inclined to believe she was 9 even if there is some "evidence" for her being older. The evidence for her being 9 seems to outweigh any account for her being older. Who knows maybe it was accepted back then but it doesn't make it right. Shagging your slave captives was also accepted back then but I think our humanity has evolved a whole lot since then.


    -------------------
    Believe in yourself
    -------------------
    Strike me down and I'll just become another nail in your coffin
    -------------------
    There's such a thing as sheep in wolfs clothing... religious fanatics
  • Re: "Aisha was NOT 9 when she got married"
     Reply #104 - November 13, 2011, 12:35 PM

    I gotta say, although this is one of the most common things used to attack Islam with I always say you have to consider what was the norm back then.

    Was this the norm or not? I don't really know but I am thinking yes.


    It may have been the norm, but in Islam Mo is supposed to the be perfect human being. The whole universe was created for his existance (I have been told). For him to marry and have sex with a child may have ben normal back then, but doesn't it make a Muslim wonder why? Mo could have treated Aisha like a daughter, sister, CHILD. Any other way would have been a good relationship, but he didn't, he chose or should I say he said God chose that he should marry Aisha whilst she was a child.

    This bring up another question, we ow know that having sex with a child is not only morally wrong but the effect can be traumatic for the child itself. Why did God or his perfect human not know that?

    "Ever notice how people who believe in creationism look really unevolved?
    Their eyes real close together. Eyebrow ridges. Big, furry hands and feet. 'I believe God created me in one day.'
    'Looks like he rushed it." ~ Bill Hicks
  • Re: "Aisha was NOT 9 when she got married"
     Reply #105 - February 19, 2012, 01:36 AM

    So after 1400 years Nilofar Ahmed, a wonderful lady who wrote and writes innumerable articles in support of  Islam wrote another one in today's Dawn  Titled with Of Aisha’s age at marriage  Let us read a bit of it..
    Quote
    IT is said that Hazrat Aisha was six years old when her nikah was performed with Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) in Makkah, and nine years old when she moved in to live with her husband in Madina after Hijra.   This piece of misinformation has led to the wrong view that child marriage has the sanction of Islam. It must be noted that establishing the authenticity of hadiths, the narrators’ circumstances and the conditions at that time have to be correlated with historical facts. There is only one hadith by Hisham which suggests the age of Hazrat Aisha as being nine when she came to live with her husband.

    Many authentic hadiths also show that Hisham’s narration is incongruous with several historical facts about the Prophet’s life, on which there is consensus. With reference to scholars such as Umar Ahmed Usmani, Hakim Niaz Ahmed and Habibur Rehman Kandhulvi, I would like to present some arguments in favour of the fact that Hazrat Aisha was at least 18 years old when her nikah was performed and at least 21 when she moved into the Prophet’s house to live with him.

    Quote
    According to Umar Ahmed Usmani, in Surah Al-Nisa, it is said that the guardian of the orphans should keep testing them, until they reach the age of marriage, before returning their property (4:6). From this scholars have concluded that the Quran sets a minimum age of marriage which is at least puberty. Since the approval of the girl has a legal standing, she cannot be a minor. Hisham bin Urwah is the main narrator of this hadith. His life is divided into two periods: in 131A.H. the Madani period ended, and the Iraqi period started, when Hisham was 71 years old. Hafiz Zehbi has spoken about Hisham’s loss of memory in his later period. His students in Madina, Imam Malik and Imam Abu Hanifah, do not mention this hadith. Imam Malik and the people of Madina criticised him for his Iraqi hadiths.


    All the narrators of this hadith are Iraqis who had heard it from Hisham. Allama Kandhulvi says that the words spoken in connection with Hazrat Aisha’s age were tissa ashara, meaning 19, when Hisham only heard (or remembered), tissa, meaning nine. Maulana Usmani thinks this change was purposely and maliciously made later. Historian Ibn Ishaq in his Sirat Rasul Allah has given a list of the people who accepted Islam in the first year of the proclamation of Islam, in which Hazrat Aisha’s name is mentioned as Abu Bakr’s “little daughter Aisha”. If we accept Hisham’s calculations, she was not even born at that time.

    Some time after the death of the Prophet’s first wife, Hazrat Khadija, Khawla suggested to the Prophet that he get married again, to a bikrun, referring to Hazrat Aisha (Musnad Ahmed). In Arabic bikrun is used for an unmarried girl who has crossed the age of puberty and is of marriageable age. The word cannot be used for a six-year-old girl. Some scholars think that Hazrat Aisha was married off so early because in Arabia girls mature at an early age. But this was not a common custom of the Arabs at that time. According to Allama Kandhulvi, there is no such case on record either before or after Islam. Neither has this ever been promoted as a Sunnah of the Prophet. The Prophet married off his daughters Fatima at 21 and Ruquiyya at 23. Besides, Hazrat Abu Bakr, Aisha’s father, married off his eldest daughter Asma at the age of 26.

    Hazrat Aisha narrates that she was present on the battlefield at the Battle of Badar (Muslim). This leads one to conclude that Hazrat Aisha moved into the Prophet’s house in 1 A.H. But a nine-year-old could not have been taken on a rough and risky military mission.  In 2 A.H, the Prophet refused to take boys of less than 15 years of age to the battle of Uhud. Would he have allowed a 10-year-old girl to accompany him? But Anas reported that he saw Aisha and Umme Sulaim carrying goatskins full of water and serving it to the soldiers (Bukhari). Umme Sulaim and Umme Ammara, the other women present at Uhud, were both strong, mature women whose duties were the lifting of the dead and injured, treating their wounds, carrying water in heavy goatskins, supplying ammunition and even taking up the sword.

    Hazrat Aisha used the kunniat, the title derived from the name of a child, of Umme Abdullah after her nephew and adopted son.
    If she was six when her nikah was performed, she would have been only eight years his senior, hardly making him eligible for adoption. Also, a little girl could not have given up on ever having her own child and used an adopted child’s name for her kunniat.  Hazrat Aisha’s nephew Urwah once remarked that he was not surprised about her amazing knowledge of Islamic law, poetry and history because she was the wife of the Prophet and the daughter of Abu Bakr. If she was eight when her father migrated, when did she learn poetry and history from him?

    There is consensus that Hazrat Aisha was 10 years younger than her elder sister Asma, whose age at the time of the hijrah, or migration to Madina, was about 28. It can be concluded that Hazrat Aisha was about 18 years old at migration. On her moving to the Prophet’s house, she was a young woman at 21. Hisham is the single narrator of the hadith whose authenticity is challenged, for it does not correlate with the many historical facts of the time.

    The writer is a scholar of the Quran and writes on contemporary issues.
    nilofar.ahmed58@gmail.com 

    That is what she writes.,  but for people like me., It doesn't matter whether Aisha was 9 or 19 or 29 or 39., It is still stupid for a man of that status with all the responsibilities on the earth talk to Allah all the time do this NONSENSE.,  The man married 13 women in 13 years after the death of his first wife Khadija and he was already over 50 year old guy .. That doesn't make sense to me., The guy was either nut case or SODOM or these things NEVER HAPPENED in Islam but rascals wrote it so that  these old farts can sleep with young girls taking Muhammad as model for  their life. Well on that MENTAL ILLNESS of Muhammad a new book come out ..



    Anyways that wonderful  lady  Nilofar Ahmed is actually a Ahmadi Muslim., and we know what real Muslims think about Ahmadi Muslims..

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: "Aisha was NOT 9 when she got married"
     Reply #106 - February 19, 2012, 11:26 AM

    WhoMan got pounded so bad in this thread and he seems to like it Cheesy

  • Re: "Aisha was NOT 9 when she got married"
     Reply #107 - March 18, 2012, 08:27 PM

    Quote
    Historian Ibn Ishaq in his Sirat Rasul Allah has given a list of the people who accepted Islam in the first year of the proclamation of Islam, in which Hazrat Aisha’s name is mentioned as Abu Bakr’s “little daughter Aisha”. If we accept Hisham’s calculations, she was not even born at that time.


    I thought that this was the most convincing and interesting part of the argument. So I went and looked it up. Sure enough it does list Aisha as one of the converts to Islam at the invitation of Abu Bakr (pg. 116 of the English language translation by Guillaume).

    But it does not list the year in which Abu Bakr or Aisha converted to Islam. Abu Bakr was the first adult male to do so after Muhammad. We can narrow Abu Bakr’s conversion down to between 610 AD (When Muhammad received his first "revelation") and 613 AD (when Muhammad first began preaching publicly). Ibn Ishaq says that the family of Abu Bakr did not convert to Islam at the same time as Abu-Bakr, on the contrary, he actually says that Abu Bakr first brought 7 men to Muhammad who became Muslims and then Ibn Ishaq writes “after that came…..” and a long list of names of people that converted to Islam is listed. About half way down that list the two daughters Asma and Aisha are listed.

    Seeing as the title of the chapter is "The Companions who accepted Islam at the Invitation of Abu Bakr", it follows that all of the people that became Muslim at Abu Bakr's invitation would be listed there, not just the ones that became Muslim in the period between 610-613 AD.

    So the evidence within Ibn Ishaq that Aisha converted to Islam in roughly the same time period as Abu Bakr (i.e. between 610 and 613 AD) is not conclusive, firstly no dates are listed and it is only assumed that Aisha converted in this early period because Ibn Ishaq generally narrates the history in chronological order and it is mentioned early in the book.

    Finally it is worth pointing out that some Muslims have criticized Ibn Ishaq because there is no Isnad, or chain or narration for some of the stuff that Ibn Ishaq wrote. And sure enough, for this particular passage of Ibn Ishaq, no Isnad is recorded.

    The Hadiths are considered by most Muslims to be more reliable than Ibn Ishaq because they have a chain of narration that has been veted by Islamic scholars. And Muslims will often take exception to the passages within Ibn Ishaq that have no recorded chain of narration. Therefore the Orthodox Muslim view would be to side with the Hadiths on Aisha's age of marriage. Not only do they categorically state the exact year, but they also have an Isnad to back them up.

     
  • "Aisha was NOT 9 when she got married"
     Reply #108 - February 07, 2017, 09:51 AM

    I agree. But in terms of educational discussion, learning etc. 5 seems not too low, not too high. I was going to say 10, but that seemed a little too much.

    Feel free to list your 5 on that thread.


    1. QURAN says that the Earth and the heavens were together and separated later.  The earth and heaven aren't seperated. the earth is a part of this universe and it's not separated.

    2. Quran says The Zul-qarnain found the setting place of the sun(Muddy Spring) and he found people near it. This is another contradiction. There is no setting place for the sun. Muslims claim that the muddy spring refers to the sea,  if it was the sea How did Zul-qarnain see people near it?  Did he have super eye sight or what?

    3. The Quran contains the story of Noah and his Ark..

    The verse -Until when Our Command came and the lowlands gushed forth, overflowing,  We said: ‘Load it with two of each kind of animal (male and female), and embark your family, except against whom the Word has already gone forth, and those who believe.’  And none believed him except a few.” (Quran 11:40)

    The verse is NONSENSE!!!  the flood was intense it filled each and every crank on earth. A worldwide flood is impossible and it would destroy the eco system

    4. Quran doesn't talk about Dinosaurs,  pre historic humans,  other planets in the universe, Asteroids,  comets etc etc.. (yea Mohamed wrote the quran so obviously he had no idea about them 1400 years ago)

    5. A non Muslim dies as a non Muslim and goes to hell. Whose fault is it? It cant be his/her fault. Let's say if someone is born to a Christian family he/she will he taught about Christianity from the beginning like how Muslims are taught Islam from the beginning. You think when he/she is 10 years old he will automatically realize Islam is the right religion?  No he won't.  He will defend his religion and he'll strictly follow his religion.. He'll have the same mindset as a Muslim!!  Now he will live as a Christian and die as a Christian and he goes to hell!! You get my point..if someone is born in a non Muslim family What's the solution then?  A big problem here..this is why Religion doesn't make sense...

    The quran isn't clear, Quran isn't specific,  it doesn't look like the message from AN ALL KNOWING,  ALL WISE SUPREME BEING...
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