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 Topic: Islam the Feminist, anti-Racist religion?

 (Read 3938 times)
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  • Islam the Feminist, anti-Racist religion?
     OP - November 09, 2015, 10:54 AM

    How many people here have heard that Islam is inherently feminist and anti-racist, especially from Muslim activists and progressive Muslims?

    I just want to know what everyone here thinks of those who claim that the religion promotes women's rights and is against racism, even though the Qur'an does call for women to be beaten (for one) and as a whole, Arabic language and customs are put on a pedestal (while everything else is written off as corrupted)? Basically being Arab (as Islam dictates) is seen as THE way to God above anything else?


    I've also noticed that some of these activists will call criticism of Islam and Muhammad (including drawing caricatures of him) as hate crimes. ...Why??

    Also, what do you all think of female converts who claim being Muslim ties in with their feminism?
  • Islam the Feminist, anti-Racist religion?
     Reply #1 - November 09, 2015, 11:20 AM

    How many people here have heard that Islam is inherently feminist and anti-racist, especially from Muslim activists and progressive Muslims?
    ...................................................
    Also, what do you all think of female converts who claim being Muslim ties in with their feminism?

    *************************************************************

    Islam Is Actually A Feminist Religion: 5 Myths About Islam _mintpressnews.com



    I'm a feminist and I converted to Islam_cnn.com

     

    MuslimGirl Founder Says Islam Is Feminist



    *******************************************************

    well Bolton if you have problem with those news links then talk to  22 years old, Amani al-Khatahtbeh  the   editor in chief of her own online publication, . at http://muslimgirl.net/

    and let me read this news at http://alghad.com/articles/901913-99

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Islam the Feminist, anti-Racist religion?
     Reply #2 - November 09, 2015, 11:37 AM

    Claiming Islam to be inherently anti-racist and feminist is a somewhat new and modern claim, something that has become a popular argument the last decade or so due to the shift in discourse about Islam (and especially Islam and/in the West). Of course, we would have to define the terms "anti-racist" and "feminism" to begin with, any discussion would be futile without a clear understanding what both parties mean when using these terms. As for feminism, there is no single definition of feminism. Feminism as an ideology is far more diverse than one would think, the only thing that any feminist would be able to agree with any other feminism, is that patriarchy and patriarchal structures are causing women to suffer of inequality and subjugation in society's all aspects and levels. What patriarchy is, how it takes form, the reasons and mechanisms behind, the solutions for it etc etc etc all depends what stance you take. Queer, liberal, Marxist, intersectionality, and so on.

    Claiming Islam to be anti-racist is both true and untrue. It is true that there is no text in traditional Islam that could be used to interpret Islam to promote some kind of inherent hierarchy between people based on race or colour of the skin. On the contrary, it is often reiterated that what counts is the piety of a person. However, there are plenty of texts where people are described in such a manner that if one would do it today, that person would definitely be accused of reproducing racist structures (blacks are described as "black raisins", and some Arab tribes and Jews are said to be in such and such a way as if they were born like that only due to their ethnicity). And don't forget that while there are ahadeeth that talk about that even a "black slave" should be given leadership among men, if he is best suited and pious, there are also quite clear ahadeeth that state that the khalifah of a righteous khilafah can only be from the Quraish tribe. Not only Arab, but Qurayshi as well.

    And yes, women were given a soul in Islam. They were also given the "privilege" to be judged on the same "terms" (well, that could be discussed because I am of on another opinion). However, men and women are not deemed to be equal in life, nor in the hereafter. We are not given the same rewards, we are not given the same rights and obligations, and the biggest obstacle for anyone to claim Islam to be propagating equality or "feminism" in any form is the concept of Qawwamah. Qawwamah is a simple and crude example of patriarchy. Which per definition is the cause of oppression and inequality between men and women. I think that makes any claim of (inherent) feminism to be nothing else than a farce, a theatrical display of ignorance in front of the masses.

    Hate and discrimination against Muslims is definitely a hate crime. Substantial criticism of Islam or Muslim societies is not.

    Whatever privileged (white) converts claim is only their own subjective experience and cannot be used to claim any truth or reality. Any Muslim can chose to interpret Islam in any way they wish, and if women can manage to tie in their personal interpretation of Islam with their own interpretation of feminism, then that is of course their right and their own personal reality. However, that claim is subjugated to criticism.

    As a former salafi-talibah-feminist-Muslimah, I have yet to meet a single person or any single piece of argument that I'm not able to deconstruct and destroy into a million little pieces, beyond any doubt, that any claim of Islam and the emancipation of women is pure bullshit. But that's just me.

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Islam the Feminist, anti-Racist religion?
     Reply #3 - November 10, 2015, 09:17 PM

    Thank you for your post, which makes a lot of valid points. It IS a modern phenomenon to claim it's an egalitarian religion.

    I personally don't regard Islam as anti-racist in part because the stance taken to claim it as such (such as that fake speech against racism attributed to Muhammad) tend to be 'Islam says we must be activists so we are activists against the wicked white man'. Likelihood of the same people calling out Arabs and Desis on their racist crap or even talking about Arab imperialism (even Arab supremacy, if we want to go there) = zilch.

    As for the hate crimes I mentioned, I do mean anything that simply criticises or mocks Muhammad rather than incites contempt or hatred towards Muslims. Nevermind that former Muslims do these things as well.
  • Islam the Feminist, anti-Racist religion?
     Reply #4 - November 10, 2015, 09:58 PM

    What it boils down to is that it doesn't have to make any sense to anyone else as long as it makes you feel good about your identity.
  • Islam the Feminist, anti-Racist religion?
     Reply #5 - November 11, 2015, 01:20 PM

    (such as that fake speech against racism attributed to Muhammad)


    Actually speaking, could anybody please help verify this? I have read so many times about how progressive Mo was, just because of that speech.

    I tried to find the source but in wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farewell_Sermon and other credible sources basically has no such anti-racism part in his speech. The hadiths have all the misogynistic parts and call for Jihad, but the anti-racism part have no basis whatsoever.

    I'm talking about this part:

    Quote
    "All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves"


    This seems to not have any root tracing back to Mo, like none. Not even the hadiths.

    I found wikiislam article on this:

    http://wikiislam.net/wiki/List_of_Fabricated_Hadith#Muhammad.27s_Farewell_Sermon

    But before I found wikiislam article about fabricated anti-racism part, I was already skeptical because the hadiths I read have no anti-racism part in it.
  • Islam the Feminist, anti-Racist religion?
     Reply #6 - November 11, 2015, 02:44 PM

    Yeah, a friend who studied Muhammad from authentic source material hadn't heard of that part (the fake speech I was referring to) either. They also pointed out that there are hadith which are pretty racist by today's standards.


    While I am at it, I also feel some irritation with White converts who claim that converting to Islam and marrying non-white people has challenged their racism. That may be true for them, but this doesn't show in itself that Islam is anti-racism as much as they want to believe. (They tend to immerse themselves into becoming as Arab as possible, to make up for their "wicked western ways". I can kind of understand that - they want to fit in or are curious about a different culture. Fine. But don't pretend that following in this culture will bring you closer to God and make you some kind of saint...)

    These same people also don't want to hear about Arab Muslim imperialism, and how nations were humiliated and forced to convert to Islam.
  • Islam the Feminist, anti-Racist religion?
     Reply #7 - November 11, 2015, 03:40 PM

    There are many works which too today's ears are racist but that were obviously not supposed to be given the time and context. Check out this poem by William Blake I posted a while ago: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=25116.msg718677#msg718677

    By today's standards it's incredibly racist, but reading it while keeping in mind it was written during the time of the Atlantic slave trade, it's obviously meant as an anti-racist piece.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Islam the Feminist, anti-Racist religion?
     Reply #8 - November 12, 2015, 12:13 AM

    I wonder what Black muslims and Black non-muslims would say when they learn that early muslims thought black skin was because of being sun burnt? (Recalling the Masked Arab's video about the verse which says the sun set into a muddy spring.)
  • Islam the Feminist, anti-Racist religion?
     Reply #9 - November 12, 2015, 01:45 AM

    I had no idea that was fabricated. Fascinating.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Islam the Feminist, anti-Racist religion?
     Reply #10 - November 12, 2015, 12:19 PM

    Muslims should stop spreading it around, if they want Islam to be taken seriously. What does it say about them to support a fake speech and claim their prophet said it??
  • Islam the Feminist, anti-Racist religion?
     Reply #11 - February 28, 2017, 07:03 AM

    Funny. I just posted about the same blog.

    Basically, it comes from a simplistic mentality (not unlike religion) that divides the world into good and evil.  America is evil and racist, Islam seems to be the enemy of white american christians, therefore islam must be good.  The current trends on the left are big on these sorts of identity politics that ironically are pretty racist themselves, defining people by their membership in a group instead of as individuals (of course as a fairly well constructed tautology, the people who advocate for this will explain to you why them doing the exact same thing they accuse their enemies of is perfectly ok and morally justifiable, while it;s unconsciable evil when done by the other side.)
  • Islam the Feminist, anti-Racist religion?
     Reply #12 - February 28, 2017, 07:06 AM

    Historical question (and I don't know the answer):  Wasn't part of the early Shia/Sunni split related to a conflict between Arab domination of the Caliphate and the interests of the new ethnic groups, primarily Persians, who had been converted?
  • Islam the Feminist, anti-Racist religion?
     Reply #13 - March 01, 2017, 01:18 AM

    Not really. Never heard that one.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Islam the Feminist, anti-Racist religion?
     Reply #14 - March 01, 2017, 03:10 AM

    Historical question (and I don't know the answer):  Wasn't part of the early Shia/Sunni split related to a conflict between Arab domination of the Caliphate and the interests of the new ethnic groups, primarily Persians, who had been converted?


    Lol, sort of, but it's historically very complicated. In modern times, this complexity means that there are Shias and Sunnis among both Arab and Persian ethnicities. Religion, politics, ethnicity were all intertwined in the early days of Islamic history, and certainly the forces you mention shaped it profoundly.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Islam the Feminist, anti-Racist religion?
     Reply #15 - March 01, 2017, 08:36 AM

    Right.  I know it was very complicated, but from what I read, that seemed to be a subtle factor if you read between the lines.
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