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Theme Changer

 Poll

  • Question: Which one (if any) are you more inclined to side with? (Give reasons)
  • Israel - 50 (30.5%)
  • Palestine - 114 (69.5%)
  • Total Voters: 163

 Topic: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?

 (Read 202623 times)
  • Previous page 1 2 3 45 6 ... 38 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #90 - May 23, 2011, 01:25 PM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9h8FdMy0o4




    And let us look at  Hamas, Hamas leaders and  the western  understanding of Hamas..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxAziBe5rxc


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoH19b1TrZo


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHsSb854f0Q


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNmPZYv7VeU


    That is the Hamas leadership..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #91 - May 23, 2011, 02:23 PM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tib1lYIsdk

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #92 - May 23, 2011, 04:47 PM

    Q-man. For a supposed champion of free expression (for Muslims at least) you display a high degree of aggressive intolerance towards opinions contrary to your own - particularly if you can't adequately counter them.


    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=15188.msg419126#msg419126

    Quote
    Do you ever tell people to "shut the fuck up" when you are overseeing union meetings?


    Nope, but if you don't understand the difference between a person shooting his mouth off in a private venue specifically for discussion and debate of political, social and religious topics, and a field organizer helping to facilitate a labor union meeting to conduct the business of the union, then you're even dumber than I thought. Of course I shouldn't be surprised considering you have repeatedly been unable to divine the difference from a private individual or organization telling someone to shut their trap and the state forcibly censoring someone, despite having had the difference explained to you on several occasions.

    "In battle, the well-honed spork is more dangerous than the mightiest sword" -- Sun Tzu
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #93 - May 23, 2011, 07:41 PM

    I hope all of you guys in CEMB watch these videos.....


    I hope so too. Thanks - I hadn't watched them, only read about them.
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #94 - May 23, 2011, 07:45 PM

    *changed my mind* Tongue

    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #95 - May 23, 2011, 08:21 PM

    Good points dust  Afro

    Quote
    Aph did have a point about muslim majority...so possibly democracy wouldnt really work, you'll end up with an islamic government


    That is certainly a possibility, although most Palestinians are secular and get on rather well with their Christian brothers. The problem is that if the arabs were allowed to return to their homes (both muslims and christians) they would be a majority which means the whole supremacist ideology known as Zionism would no longer remain a reality because there would be no "Jewish state" at the expense of the arabs.

    There are many groups and individuals on both sides working for peace, Jewish Voice for Peace is a very good organisation. Taken from their FAQ page:

    Quote
    •The root of ending the Occupation is here in the United States, not in Israel, and we work for an end to US military aid to Israel until the Occupation ends.

    • Interest groups within the United States, such as the Christian Zionist lobby, the arms and aerospace industry lobbies, and right-leaning Jewish organizations, have a vested interest in maintaining the Occupation. But since the Occupation threatens the peace and security of the Middle East, the true interests of the United States, as well as those of Palestinians and Israelis, lie in ending the Occupation.

    • We believe that in order to reach a just and comprehensive peace between Israelis and Palestinians, the Nakba must be addressed. Without  acknowledging the events of 1947-9, there will be no truth and reconciliation. JVP adheres to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights which states that "everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and return to his country." Israelis should acknowledge the Palestinian refugees' right of return and negotiate a mutually agreed just solution based on principles established in international law, including return, compensation, and/or resettlement.



    http://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/

    Other organisations:

    http://jfjfp.com/
    http://cfpeace.org/
    http://www.children-of-abraham.org/

    Saddest thing is that the majority on both side want peace, but as usual its the minority extremists that are the most vocal and get their way  Cry
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #96 - May 23, 2011, 08:28 PM

    Lol, Aph....

    meh ok i'll put it back:

    Here's my 2 cents (2 pence):

    Isreal is there! as it is, whatever the history (it's stolen land? well guess what? all lands are stolen to a degree....the Romans invaded Britain...) and ISREAL is a LABEL, ultimately what should matter is the government and its actions...and this is for any country too.

    Take the situation as it is, to me it seems the isreali government is being more progressive in certain aspects, im not saying they're perfect or good, but its progress and they should need to now focus on being PRO-HUMAN and treating every isreali citizen (yes FORMER-palestinians too) as equals, and I think since the current palestine land is so small.... :/ why not just merge with isreal and form a democratic country? (Hmm Aph did have a point about muslim majority...so possibly democracy wouldnt really work, you'll end up with an islamic government...and it will be risky in the sense you may end up with an extreme government - you need state and religion to seperate in this case i think)

    I agree with kenans post and Al-Ma-Arr' has a good point too.

    People need to let go of the past and the hurt and start forgiving each other...and staring afresh...I know the mentality of hating the jews/hating the muslims won't just go away like that. Someone over there needs to stand up and say enough is enough, this shit is going on for too long and the countries should simply merge(or just settle down the way it is) and even call the country by a new name if they must to let go of the past and move forward. I wonder if theres any groups of jewish&muslim people fighting for peace over there in alliance.....

    Disclaimer: I'm not well researched on the whole isreal/palestine issue Tongue So this washy (naive) opinion can change change easily Tongue

    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #97 - May 23, 2011, 08:41 PM

    Why these Islamic ummah.. kingdoms.. heroes of Islam  with all the oil money can not give some 50 billion dollars a year to Palestinians  to buy those houses that are build by Israelis?? Instead of that they build Mosques in west  and some rich rebel character like Osama comes out of Muslim community  and idiots like this one  spend money to generate nut cases and  thugs that kill people for no good reason but International terrorism in the name of Islam..


    You do make a very good point here. The houses are well built, and the Palestinians could do with living in areas that are well constructed, democratic and hold a good standard of living. As I understand it, corruption is rife around that region especially amongst Palestinians

    http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2010/results

    (AFP) – 5 days ago
    JERUSALEM — The Palestinian Authority has taken "significant steps" to improve governance and tackle rampant corruption but must follow through with implementation, the World Bank said on Wednesday.


    Any ways HighOctane  .,  please go through that link   and interactive map to realize the problem of Jewish settlements  in Palestine.


    Sorry - I still am missing something really obvious it seems. I don't mean to frustrate you, honest.  Smiley

    From my understanding, the shallow view of the settlements is this:
    1 - Israel wants to show it's power superiority/dominance
    2 - Israeli's feel there is a biblical/religious reason to it
    3 - That is was formerly their land

    To me, all ownership of land is theft anyway, so this discards 3.
    Point 2 I do find it hard for Israeli strategists to accepted since I can't imagine sharp Israeli leader's falling for Santa.
    As for Point number 1 - I do struggle with this one. Reasons:
    - There is so much land in the South
    - Israel even formerly funded Hamas when they though religion could do any harm as in the video you've shown
    - The general population of Israel feel a need to exert some superiority after all the years of hardship endured

    That said, I do also acknowledge the following:
    - The Gaza strip is evacuated of Israeli settlements as of 6 years ago. A comparison of living standards between Gaza and the West Bank for a Palestinian would be interesting to research.
    - If the West Bank is left to itself, even as a Palestinian state, I wonder how corruption will lead it to become a failed state. If on the other hand Palestinians could be won over, there is higher chance of co-existence with Palestinians living under Israeli governance.

    yeezevee, I understand the Palestinians and non-Israeli Arabs as a group are more in the wrong than Israel, but I can't help thinking how if they were to exit the West Bank, then at least all the transport routes they control can lessen the choking of Palestinians in their daily life.
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #98 - May 23, 2011, 08:48 PM

    Lol, Aph....

    meh ok i'll put it back:

    Here's my 2 cents (2 pence):

    Isreal is there! as it is, whatever the history (it's stolen land? well guess what? all lands are stolen to a degree....the Romans invaded Britain...) and ISREAL is a LABEL, ultimately what should matter is the government and its actions...and this is for any country too.

    Take the situation as it is, to me it seems the isreali government is being more progressive in certain aspects, im not saying they're perfect or good, but its progress and they should need to now focus on being PRO-HUMAN and treating every isreali citizen (yes FORMER-palestinians too) as equals, and I think since the current palestine land is so small.... :/ why not just merge with isreal and form a democratic country? (Hmm Aph did have a point about muslim majority...so possibly democracy wouldnt really work, you'll end up with an islamic government...and it will be risky in the sense you may end up with an extreme government - you need state and religion to seperate in this case i think)

    I agree with kenans post and Al-Ma-Arr' has a good point too.

    People need to let go of the past and the hurt and start forgiving each other...and staring afresh...I know the mentality of hating the jews/hating the muslims won't just go away like that. Someone over there needs to stand up and say enough is enough, this shit is going on for too long and the countries should simply merge(or just settle down the way it is) and even call the country by a new name if they must to let go of the past and move forward. I wonder if theres any groups of jewish&muslim people fighting for peace over there in alliance.....

    Disclaimer: I'm not well researched on the whole isreal/palestine issue Tongue So this washy (naive) opinion can change change easily Tongue


    Your 2 cents are so far i can see much more worth then 2 cents!

    Thanks for that comment! Kudos!

    "Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all
            Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

    - John Keats
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #99 - May 23, 2011, 08:51 PM

    Quote
    Interest groups within the United States, such as the Christian Zionist lobby, the arms and aerospace industry lobbies, and right-leaning Jewish organizations, have a vested interest in maintaining the Occupation



    Honestly, I am very interested to read about the "vested interests".
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #100 - May 23, 2011, 09:00 PM

    Your 2 cents are so far i can see much more worth then 2 cents!

    Thanks for that comment! Kudos!


    heh, sorry about mispelling your name...but im sure you understand it's a tricky one Tongue I just noticed how terribly i failed Tongue

    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #101 - May 23, 2011, 09:15 PM

    Oh btw, check out 5:28 ... "20% of our population are arabs, and they enjoy full civil rights"

    Also, 06:25 about the settlements, though I'm not convinced ...
    08:28: "it's in the bible, we've been there for 4,00 years" - frankly this is sheer propaganda and a guy who has an IQ of 180 and is surely too intelligent to be religious?

    ... though Netanyahu does go onto say that the Palestinians frankly don't choose to recognize an Israeli state.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Wu2BNeN-TM
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #102 - May 23, 2011, 10:06 PM



    Honestly, I am very interested to read about the "vested interests".


    Profit.

    And its not just corporations in the US:

    Quote
    ALSTROM, a French company, has a contract to build and operate Jerusalem’s light rail system connecting Jerusalem with illegal settlements in the occupied West Bank

    AMERICAN TRUCK COMPANY, A DIVISION OF TEREX, currently possesses a $65 million dollar contract with Israel to provide tactical trucks and associated equipment, spare and repair parts.

    BOEING has been a major supplier of the F-15 Eagle and the AH-64 Apache attack helicopter to Israel.  These aircraft have been used to attack Palestinians in the Occupied Territories, resulting in many civilian casualties.   Boeing makes missile systems, F-15 software, Apache Helicopters, and Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAM), a guided air-to-surface weapon.

    DAEWOO INTERNATIONAL knowingly sells bulldozers and excavating drills to independent contractors who use them to destroy Palestinian homes in the occupied territories.

    MCDONALD’S fired an Arabic-speaking employee for speaking Arabic at work. McDonald’s Israeli management demands that all McDonald’s Israeli employees speak Hebrew at work. Arabic, however, is an official language of Israel.

    VOLVO bulldozers have been photographed and videotaped destroying Palestinian homes.  They have also been used in Israel’s construction of the Separation Wall, which is on Palestinian land and has been declared illegal by the International Court of Justice. Volvo has also sold its heavy trucks directly to Israel.  Heavy trucks are used in the building of illegal settlements and the separation wall built on occupied Palestinian land.  Volvo trucks and Mack trucks owned and produced by Volvo have been photographed at the scene of agricultural and home demolitions.



    The full list:

    http://www.interfaithpeaceinitiative.com/oldsite/ProfitingFromOccupation.htm
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #103 - May 23, 2011, 11:01 PM

    Part of that claim is ridiculous:

    Saying that companies selling trucks and bulldozers or rail systems have an interest in keeping the status quo is equivalent to saying that such companies would not sell their equipment or services in that area even if the conflict ceased.
    Because those services are not useful during the conflict only.

    Not boycotting them is not necessarily equivalent to having an interest that their war goes on.

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #104 - May 23, 2011, 11:12 PM

    You might have a point with companies like McDonalds, but if there was no occupation then Israel wouldn't need to build railway systems in Jerusalem & the West Bank, they'd need less bulldozers because they wouldn't be destroying homes and there wouldn't be a need for such a militarised state because there would be peace. It would mean less sales = less profit.
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #105 - May 24, 2011, 12:35 AM

    Profit.

    And its not just corporations in the US:

    The full list:

    http://www.interfaithpeaceinitiative.com/oldsite/ProfitingFromOccupation.htm


    that is a great list and great contacts juice have all over the world., If I am the leader of Palestinians, I will give full freedom  to juice to build houses, to build factories, to build schools, to build  colleges  and employ Palestinian Muslim kids., These guys have the ability to employ all 5 million or so Palestinians  and compete with Chinese economy.

     All these alllllll hhhooooooo akbaaaar crowd should move out of Palestine in to some other Islamic nations where Islam is more important than  food cloths homes and jobs.. AND AND WHERE THERE IS ENOUGH SAND TO BURY THEIR HEADS.   And even I will encourage Muslims and juice intermarry make families live happily all over Palestine and Israel...  Any Muslim wants sharia law or who preaches sharia law .. four wives.. talaq..talaq  in that area would be buried until their necks so that women of that area will spit on these idiots


     Free house..secure jobs for those who make inter religious families and  encourage every one to spend two year compulsory new religion program and encourage free conversion  from one religion to another.. A free for all  program....

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #106 - May 24, 2011, 05:49 AM

    Quote from: Rev. Winton Dupree
    Nope, but if you don't understand the difference between a person shooting his mouth off in a private venue specifically for discussion and debate of political, social and religious topics, and a field organizer helping to facilitate a labor union meeting to conduct the business of the union, then you're even dumber than I thought.


    So supposing you were presiding over a PTA meeting and a non-Muslim parent expressed dissatisfaction that the school had surreptitiously started buying all its meat supplies for student meals from halal sources as a result of lobbying by Muslim parents. Would you tell that parent they should "just shut the fuck up"? A simple Yes or No will suffice.

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #107 - May 24, 2011, 09:06 AM

    How about option three-none of the above. I have little regard for either party to the conflict at this point, and it irks me that it commands so much attention while other conflicts remain on the back burner. Almost the same amount of Jews that died during the Holocaust have been killed since 1994 in East and Central Africa due to outright genocide and war while the world watches.


    +1

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #108 - May 24, 2011, 09:17 AM

    Fuck Israel and Fuck Palestine! How's that for emotion?

    Oh and no, I don't hate Jews or Arabs. Totally different matter - but thanks for conflating it with whether you support Israel or Palestine.

    Sorry but most of what you say on this subject - and quite a few others - is bullshit.

    But you're using 'reason' so you're right of course.


    +1

    My Thoughts exactly

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #109 - May 24, 2011, 09:33 AM

    Does anyone else think its sick to see people who constantly go on about freedom (for themselves only of course) supporting Israel? They should go live in the West Bank and those who support war (like HO) should go to Afghanistan or maybe he has no balls and the thought of getting blown up by an IED is too much so he sits at home wanking off to a pic of the Queen whilst shoving an action man doll up his ass.


    I do

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #110 - May 24, 2011, 12:41 PM

    Pro nobody..  This is not United versus Barca in the fucking Champions league, this is a tragedy, these are two nations at war hijacked by extremists and  fuckwits on both sides of the equation and meddling foreign powers.  Both are legitimate and have the right to exist, people from both nations could be so beneficial to each other.  They are blood brothers after all..

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #111 - May 24, 2011, 12:54 PM

    And as someone else said, dead Israelis and Palestinians do not deserve any more attention than dead Libyans, Syrians, Yemenis, Bahrainis, Iranians or Congolese if we come to that..

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #112 - May 24, 2011, 12:56 PM

    there wouldn't be a need for such a militarised state because there would be peace. It would mean less sales = less profit.


     Cheesy Cheesy  whistling2

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #113 - May 24, 2011, 04:41 PM

    Israel Prime Minister Netanyahu Addresses AIPAC 2011

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26lcWIgMtjw

    Please realize that the above video is American srael Public Affairs Committee   very strong  Pro Israel Lobby in US of A., I wish to see some smart guy  from Palestine over there  talking to US of A congress..

    Please watch that Video Carefully....


    Interesting little clip  from US congress
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlDK64dzX8g

    wow ..  

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #114 - May 24, 2011, 07:18 PM

    Profit.

    And its not just corporations in the US:

    The full list:

    http://www.interfaithpeaceinitiative.com/oldsite/ProfitingFromOccupation.htm



    Thanks Aphrodite.

    Key logical question: is the quest for profit driving the need for Palestinian deaths and displacement OR is it the case that Israel's actions require goods which are manufactured by firm who make (or might not make) a profit?

    If one believes the former, then there should be data to prove that Palestinian deaths and displacement contributes to their goods being bought in sufficient number which generates a profit beyong the break-even point due to the cost in manufacturing.

    Let's look at one US firm:

    Quote
    LOCKHEED MARTIN is the single biggest overseas supplier for the Israeli armaments industry.  It has received at least $4.4 billion since 1995 for supplying arms, including missile systems and fighter planes, to Israel and has many ongoing contracts, including manufacturing F-16I fighter bombers used by the IDF against Palestinians.  Lockheed Martin Missile and Fire Control in Orlando, Florida produces the Hellfire missile system for Apache attack helicopters used by Israel against Palestinians.  According to a military trade publication, Israel's main battle tank, the Merkava MK-4 is produced by the Lockheed Martin's Skunk Works Group.


    This is an F-16I fighter bomber:



    An Apache



    So, what is the possibility:
    - That Israel have such a high need of such expensive equipment for the sole purpose to attack Palestinians that it racks up a bill of billions? Could it not be they need such equipment to defend themselves against the countries around them?
    - That Israel need so much ammunition from Lockhead Martin, that it results in overwhelming profit?
    NB: Lockhead Martin's last annual revenue is $45.803 billion which still resulted in a loss of $2.926 billion.

    Let's look at two others:
    Quote
    DOMINO’S PIZZA has at least one franchise in the occupied territories in the French Hill section of East Jerusalem.
    ...
    PIZZA HUT, a subsidiary of Yum! Brands, Inc, has stores in the settlements.  They are reportedly owned by Alon Israel Oil Company, Ltd.


    Is it really possible that these two firms, like the rest on that page are actively generating an overwhelming amount of profit that they are lobbying for Israel to continue to make settlements and kill Palestinians in the process?

    I think the justification of "profit" as reason for the US, European and Israel to have a vested interest in harming and displacing Palestinians is fallacy of a false cause:
    http://philosophy.lander.edu/logic/cause.html
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #115 - May 24, 2011, 07:35 PM

    wow ..  


    Well she didn't get much of a protest. But yeah - imagine doing that in Tehran and see where you'd end up ....
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #116 - May 24, 2011, 09:41 PM

    Thanks Aphrodite.

    Key logical question: is the quest for profit driving the need for Palestinian deaths and displacement OR is it the case that Israel's actions require goods which are manufactured by firm who make (or might not make) a profit?

    If one believes the former, then there should be data to prove that Palestinian deaths and displacement contributes to their goods being bought in sufficient number which generates a profit beyong the break-even point due to the cost in manufacturing.

    Let's look at one US firm:

    This is an F-16I fighter bomber:

    (Clicky for piccy!)

    An Apache

    (Clicky for piccy!)

    So, what is the possibility:
    - That Israel have such a high need of such expensive equipment for the sole purpose to attack Palestinians that it racks up a bill of billions? Could it not be they need such equipment to defend themselves against the countries around them?
    - That Israel need so much ammunition from Lockhead Martin, that it results in overwhelming profit?
    NB: Lockhead Martin's last annual revenue is $45.803 billion which still resulted in a loss of $2.926 billion.



    I believe its the latter not the former  Tongue I believe Israel prefer it if they could maintain the occupation without killing Palestinians. Lol they occupy the countries around them, the shebaa and golan heights being two examples, so Israel is not 'defending' itself against neighbouring countries, as usual its the aggressor. Also lets not forget the two nations Israel does have peace treaties with aren't democratic at all, they made deals with dictators and torturers who wanted Gaza to "go hungry but not starve" which is the reason why we now see outside the Israeli embassy in Cairo and the lifting of the blockade on Gaza  Afro

    And I don't need telling what an F-16 and Apache are, I knew what they were when you were still reciting the kalimah  Tongue


    I think the justification of "profit" as reason for the US, European and Israel to have a vested interest in harming and displacing Palestinians is fallacy of a false cause:
    http://philosophy.lander.edu/logic/cause.html


    They all have different interests, Israel's main interest has been made quite clear by their PM who believes God gave them deeds to land, the European nations feel guilty because of their long anti-semitic history (rightly so) and partly because of some $, in the US who have crazy Christians who believe Jesus will return soon and corporations who have a lot of influence over the politicians.
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #117 - May 24, 2011, 10:47 PM

    I believe its the latter not the former  Tongue I believe Israel prefer it if they could maintain the occupation without killing Palestinians. Lol they occupy the countries around them, the shebaa and golan heights being two examples, so Israel is not 'defending' itself against neighbouring countries, as usual its the aggressor.

    well Aphrodite 10 years back I was thinking like you before I learned everything on the area of 1967  Israel where width of the country was 15 miles ., But by 2011 when million Muslims are living in Israel and participating in elections .. and looking in to the preachers of Islam + learning Islam itself from scriptures + Islamic history  I have turned 180 degrees..

    No Israel  defended itself against Arab aggressors in 1967 and it is still doing., The war was forced on them by Arab Muslims, the Islamic nations surrounded it supported by Islamic leaders + Public. At that time there was one Islam and that was against Juice & Israel.  Now we have many Islamic leaders,  each leader has his own Islamic party in Palestine and they are attached to an independent defense department ,, ESSENTIALLY THUGS AND MURDERERS
    Quote
    Also lets not forget the two nations Israel does have peace treaties with aren't democratic at all, they made deals with dictators and torturers who wanted Gaza to "go hungry but not starve" which is the reason why we now see outside the Israeli embassy in Cairo and the lifting of the blockade on Gaza  Afro  

     well for the sake of survival you got to make lot of deals & smart people make deals instead of dying & killing.  They are not Muhammad following Muslims .. Either to kill or to  get killed.. They are smart guys.. they use other ways to screw those who try to eliminate them.

     
    Quote
    They all have different interests, Israel's main interest has been made quite clear by their PM who believes God gave them deeds to land, the European nations feel guilty because of their long anti-semitic history (rightly so) and partly because of some $, in the US who have crazy Christians who believe Jesus will return soon and corporations who have a lot of influence over the politicians.

    That generation of west feeling guilty for  juice is dead.. now it is new generation Aphrodite  

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #118 - May 25, 2011, 12:16 AM

    And as someone else said, dead Israelis and Palestinians do not deserve any more attention than dead Libyans, Syrians, Yemenis, Bahrainis, Iranians or Congolese if we come to that..

    This.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #119 - May 25, 2011, 06:58 PM

    And as someone else said, dead Israelis and Palestinians do not deserve any more attention than dead Libyans, Syrians, Yemenis, Bahrainis, Iranians or Congolese if we come to that..

    one has to realize with reference to dead  Israelis and dead Palestinians unlike dead Libyans, Syrians, Yemenis, Bahrainis, Iranians or Congolese etc..etc.., There is a fundamental difference.,

    Dead dead Israelis and dead  Palestinians  are one verses othere but It is Juice verses Muslims and it is Israel verses Islamic Palestine.  To days news from juice says 


    Quote
    Witness: Pakistani Intel Officer Ordered Hit On Mumbai Chabad House

    An officer in Pakistan’s intelligence service chose a Jewish center as a target for the 2008 Mumbai attacks and then helped launch a new plot against Denmark, according to the star witness in a terror trial in Chicago.

    In his second day of testimony, David Coleman Headley, a confessed Pakistani-American terrorist, revealed more details about close ties between Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate (ISI) and the Lashkar-i-Taiba terror group, which allegedly carried out the attacks that killed 166 people, including six Americans.

    Headley said his ISI handler, a man known only as Major Iqbal, made key decisions and was a mastermind of the plot along with Lashkar chiefs. Major Iqbal deployed him on the last of five reconnaissance missions in India to scout targets that Iqbal said would definitely include the Chabad House, a Jewish community center where gunmen later killed three American rabbis, Headley testified. The pregnant wife of one of the rabbis was also killed.
     
    “Major Iqbal told me the Chabad House would be added on whatever list [of targets] there was because it was a front office for the Mossad,” Israel’s intelligence agency, Headley said. He added that Major Iqbal “seemed upset the [Mumbai] airport was not included” as a target.

    Nothing suggests that the claim about the Mossad was true.

    Headley described in understated tones how terrorist leaders congratulated him for his work casing luxury hotels and other targets chosen to ensure Americans and Jews would die. Asked his reaction to the three-day televised slaughter, he responded: “I was pleased.”

    The 50-year-old businessman has pleaded guilty to conducting months of crucial reconnaissance in Mumbai and for the Denmark plot. He is the star witness in the trial of his accused accomplice, Tahawwur Rana, in Chicago federal court. U.S. prosecutors have also indicted Major Iqbal and three Lashkar chiefs, all but one of whom remain fugitives.

    Pakistani officials deny any links to terrorism. They say Headley’s allegations are not credible because of his past as a drug dealer and DEA informant.

    Mumbai chabad house torture

    A Islamic hero  from Pakistan trains some Muslim brutes and plans with some Islamic heroes in Canada & US of A to kill JUICE in India.. Ha ! there is nothing to talk IF THAT IS TRUE..   

    That is the problem one need to solve first before we solve forget solving even talking about Palestine and Israel  borders., Once we solve that Palestinians can live in Israel and Israelis can live in Palestine..


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
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