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Theme Changer

 Poll

  • Question: Which one (if any) are you more inclined to side with? (Give reasons)
  • Israel - 49 (30.1%)
  • Palestine - 114 (69.9%)
  • Total Voters: 163

 Topic: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?

 (Read 133366 times)
  • Previous page 1 ... 25 26 2728 29 ... 38 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #780 - August 16, 2014, 09:17 PM

    Hi. Are you looking for evidence that Jews hate Palestinians? Well, you won't find it here:

    Nearly a week after major fighting between Israel and Gaza ceased, thousands of protesters gathered in Tel Aviv’s Rabin Square Saturday night to urge Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu to reignite the peace process with a Palestinian unity government that includes Hamas.

    Meretz leader MK Zehava Gal-On said Netanyahu should quit because he failed in his attempts to bring quiet to the South despite having a “blank check” to act for five years. She said Israel would do better to lift the blockade on Gaza, end the occupation of Palestinian territories and return to negotiations that extend beyond a simple ceasefire.

    "You could have achieved the framework you are willing to accept now without paying the price of 64 dead soldiers and the deaths of civilians," Gal-On told Netanyahu.

    Against the backdrop of the Tel Aviv Municipality building, lit up as an enormous Israeli flag, people carried signs reading, “Jews and Arabs refuse to be enemies,” and “When there is no peace, war comes.”

    Organizers estimated turnout as 10,000 people, but Israeli media estimated the crowd simply as "thousands.” The crowd shouted "Bibi go home."

    Author David Grossman told the crowd that there is no military solution to Israel’s conflict with Hamas.

    “There is still a critical mass that wants peace,” he said.

    Grossman decried incitement and said that Israel was becoming less tolerant of dissenting views. He accused Netanyahu of encouraging such incitement by not condemning it.

    Notably absent from the rally was a significant counter-protest, though the police had prepared for such a possibility. Throughout Operative Protective Edge, several protests in which right-wing groups came to demonstrate against the left-wing groups erupted in violence.

    “There is a feeling that while the fighting is going on and we have soldiers in the field, we should stay quiet, but now that the fighting is done it is the right time to speak out,” said one protester at the rally.

    The event was delayed by a week after the police prevented the peace rally from taking place last week due to threats of rockets on Tel Aviv.

    Ofer Prag, a 52-year-old Meretz Activist from Maagan Michael, said that he, too, came to ensure that the Left’s voice was heard.

    “We could have gone down the political path before this war started and averted 64 Israeli deaths and nearly 2,000 Palestinian ones,” he said. “After a war is a good time to speak up. Bibi is already talking to Hamas, the question is what will he talk to them about?”

    Former Council of Jewish Communities in Judea, Samaria, and the Gaza Strip chairman Danny Dayan called the demonstration a "colossal failure." He tweeted that with 10 organizations sponsoring the rally, the turnout was very low.

    Former Shas spokesman Itzik Sudri complained that the event was held on Saturday night, which he said prevented Sabbath observant peace activists like himself from attending.

    "I am a religious, Sabbath-observant man who desires a diplomatic agreement," Sudri tweeted. "Holding the event so close to the Sabbath prevented me and many like me from participating. This is a failure of the Left."

    http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Politics-And-Diplomacy/Left-wing-protesters-to-stage-Tel-Aviv-rally-say-wont-be-intimidated-by-far-rightists-371259

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #781 - August 24, 2014, 06:14 PM

    Akiva Orr again
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoiiZ6K-26E
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #782 - August 24, 2014, 08:47 PM

    Sheik Muhammad Abu Rajab  preaching his  Islam on Al-Aqsa TV  Hamas  of Gaza ..August 22-2014

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gtnPjYEUEk


    idiot 2000 people died in August 2014..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #783 - September 06, 2014, 01:32 PM

    Well news is a buzz on that oold city Jerusalem.. News says

    Iran Vows To ‘Save’ al-Aqsa Mosque from ‘Zionists’

    Arab states neglect Al-Aqsa says head of Jerusalem Waqf

    A new world order is emerging says tehrantimes.com

    That last one is from this Monkey of Islamic Revolution  Monkey  Ayatollah  Khamenei   of Iran who forgot/Lost  his Persian heritage


    Anyways I hope   sane people in Israel  heed what  Israeli  Peres Says on  West Bank Land

    Dammit., instead of  building fucking homes for  some imported immigrant juice., build schools, colleges, libraries, sports grounds to the Palestinian kids and add integrated approach to solve this Palestine/Israel problem .. And the most importantly teach the TRUTH about  Islam and Judaism and history of these religions..

    It is funny to learn that there is very little written about the History of Jerusalem between 5th and 6th century

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #784 - September 09, 2014, 09:20 AM

    I feel pretty bad for the Palestinian civilians who are caught up in the middle, I also feel sorry for those Israeli people caught in the middle. But when it comes to who I'll support, I'd say Israel. Just because to me it seems like they want peace more.
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #785 - September 09, 2014, 12:16 PM

    I feel pretty bad for the Palestinian civilians who are caught up in the middle, I also feel sorry for those Israeli people caught in the middle. But when it comes to who I'll support, I'd say Israel. Just because to me it seems like they want peace more.

    Well momo  Your party LOST the elections by 30 to 87 so your support and vote  doesn't count in UN ... anyways here is funny news and I am saying that all along..

    Palestinians Offered State Five Times The Size Of Palestine By Egyptian President, Abbas Rejects
    Quote
    Egyptian President General Abdel Fattah al-Sisi has reportedly offered Palestinian Authority leader Mahmoud Abbas a Palestinian State in Egypt’s Sinai which would be five times bigger than anything Israel could offer them in negotiations.

    The International Business Times reported today that even though he was offered 1,600 square kilometers of the Sinai Peninsula by al-Sisi, Abbas refused, thus proving that the Palestinians he represents are more interested in replacing Israel rather than creating a peaceful state adjacent to their current borders.

    As part of the offer to the Palestinians, Abbas would have to relinquish demands that Israel return to the 1967 borders, and would agree that this state would be be totally demilitarized. Also as part of the deal Palestinian cities in Judea and Samaria would become autonomous and continue to be under Palestinian Authority control.

    In the meeting between al-Sisi and Abbas, the former is reported to have said to his counterpart, “You are now 80 years old, if you don’t accept this proposal, your successor will.”

     Hopefully, Abbas will consider the options and accept the offer, which would finally give the Palestinian people a large and war-free space to build the state they have dreamed of for so long.

    Middle East Monitor reported that, according to Israeli radio, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu knows about the offer, and the U.S. has also given their blessing to the initiative.

    The Egyptian proposal comes at a time when Abbas is again in conflict with Hamas, despite having agreed to the charade of sharing a so called unity government with it. Abbas was really pressured into the deal with Hamas due to the group’s control of Gaza,

        “We cannot continue working with Hamas this way. There are 27 undersecretaries of ministries who are running the Gaza Strip, and the national unity government cannot do anything on the ground. We won’t accept the continuation of the situation with Hamas as it is now and in this shape. There must be one authority and one regime.”

    The fact that Palestinian refugees would be resettled in the new and spacious independent state as part of the agreement was even more of a sweetener, but Abbas rejected the offer.

    A state, such as the one proposed to the Palestinians, would offer them a much better chance of building a vibrant and peaceful society without fear of being used as human shields by Hamas in the inevitable next Gaza war.

    The fact that Mahmoud Abbas made the decision not to accept the offer proves once again the truth of Abba Eban’s oft quoted aphorism about the Palestinians who he accused of “never missing an opportunity to miss an opportunity.”

    This missed opportunity is just the latest example of the true face of Palestinian Nationalism.


    well that is the funny news.,  At this age and time I DON'T GIVE A FUCK WHO LIVES WHERE    Palestinian population in W. Bank, Gaza, about 4.5 million   and in Gaza  is around 1.8 million people  I wonder All the countries such as AMRIKA, CANADA , AUSTRALIA, Egypt   and where ever they want to move  offers   visas and immigration to     those folks who want to move out of that bloody place ..... I wonder how many of them will move out...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #786 - September 12, 2014, 12:53 PM

    Jews suffer from Israeli policy, regardless of political affiliation says  al-monitor.com



    Quote
    Over the past few days, news reports in France have been opening with a stunning statistic. According to current data, 1% of France’s Jewish population will immigrate to Israel this year. The total by year end is expected to reach 5,500 emigrants. This extraordinary number reflects growing fears among Jewish parents raised by reports about European jihadists, such as Mehdi Nemmouche, the Frenchman who attacked the Jewish Museum in Brussels in May 2014. It seems that many of these jihadists have adopted Mohammed Merah as their proclaimed hero, the man who murdered three children in an attack on a Jewish school in Toulouse in 2012.

    The new immigrants to Israel are fully aware that the French authorities are taking action against any and all manifestations of anti-Semitism and that they condemn anti-Semitism vociferously. At the same time, however, these immigrants also know that the authorities cannot protect every Jewish child. Merah and Nemmouche personify a combination of hatred of Israel and classic anti-Semitism. This vile combination is once again making Europe an uneasy place for Jews.

    Contributing to this foul quagmire are certain elements of the far left intelligentsia, along with those for whom it is fashionable to be an anti-Semite. They are joined by young hotheads who cannot distinguish between acts committed by the State of Israel and Jewish communities that have lived in the Diaspora for more than 2,000 years. It should be noted that this old Diaspora consists of Jews who support Israeli policies, others who oppose them, and yet others who are apathetic toward anything that happens outside the country in which they live.

    The most unfortunate link connecting Israeli actions with the Diaspora, however, is provided by senior Israeli officials, who blur any distinction between protests against their policies and hatred of the Jewish people. Not every Jew around the world supports Israel's occupation policy. Many Jews in Israel as well as the Diaspora have expressed reservations about Israel’s disproportionate response against Gaza’s civilian population in the last war.

    The previous Al-Monitor article in this series reported on a discussion that took place in the Israeli Cabinet in January over the annual report on anti-Semitism submitted by the Ministry of Jerusalem and Diaspora Affairs. Justice Minister Tzipi Livni said at the meeting that claims of anti-Semitism “are the refuge of those who don’t want a diplomatic arrangement.” She was reacting to a comment by Economy and Trade Minister Naftali Bennett, chairman of HaBayit HaYehudi, who holds the Diaspora portfolio in the Cabinet, when he said that the wave of anti-Israel boycotts were a product of anti-Semitism. Tourism Minister Uzi Landau of Yisrael Beitenu reiterated Bennett’s sentiments.

    Livni, responsible for negotiations with the Palestinians, countered by arguing that the boycotts express “criticism of the decision that encourages Jewish settlement on lands that the world does not recognize as falling under Israeli sovereignty.” She added, “Anyone who ties anti-Semitism to criticism of Israel for its policies regarding the settlements is doing harm to the struggle against anti-Semitism.” It is no small matter when a senior Israeli minister rebukes her government colleagues by charging that the connections they are trying to make between the various boycotts and anti-Semitism cause harm to Jews around the world. Nevertheless, it seems as if her words fell on deaf ears at that meeting.

    A short time later, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu once again drew a connection between the wave of boycotts advocated by the boycotts, divestment and sanctions (BDS) movement against Israel and hatred of the Jews in Europe. He did so before a Jewish audience on two separate occasions while making thinly veiled references to the Holocaust. The first time was at a meeting of the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations on Feb. 17, and the second time was at the annual AIPAC conference about two weeks later, on March 4. Here are a few quotations:

        “The most eerie thing, the most disgraceful thing is to have people on the soil of Europe talking about the boycott of Jews. … In the past, anti-Semites boycotted Jewish businesses and today they call for the boycott of the Jewish state.” (Presidents Conference)
        “Today the singling out of the Jewish people has turned into the singling out of the Jewish state. … Attempts to boycott, divest, and sanction Israel, the most threatened democracy on Earth, are simply the latest chapter in the long and dark history of anti-Semitism. … I think it’s important that the boycotters must be exposed for what they are. They’re classical anti-Semites in modern garb.” (AIPAC)

    The BDS movement's statement on the boycott calls for nonviolent actions against Israel, much like the actions taken against South Africa during the apartheid era. These would continue until the Israeli government takes the following steps: It recognizes the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination; obeys the principles of international law by ending the occupation and colonization of all Arab lands and dismantling the separation barrier; recognizes the basic right to full equality for the Palestinian Arab citizens living in the State of Israel; and advances the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and property on the basis of UN Resolution 194.

    A June 2010 analysis conducted by the Reut Institute, an independent Israeli organization, concluded that while the BDS movement does attempt to delegitimize the State of Israel and challenges its Zionist basis, it is not an anti-Semitic movement per se. On the other hand, the NGO Monitor and others claim to have identified anti-Semitic motifs in the BDS campaign.

    The Israeli political right has chosen to link the boycotts to anti-Semitism while disassociating them from the occupation and the settlements. In the same speech before the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations,
    Quote
    Netanyahu asserted, “The root cause of the conflict is not the settlements, it’s not the territories. … The root cause of this conflict is the refusal to accept the right of the Jewish people to a state of their own in any boundaries.” Thus, the seizure of lands for settlements across the Green Line is irrelevant to the issue.


    The linkage between Israel and world Jewry has created a sense that the onus of responsibility for Israel’s actions, including its misdeeds, is shared with the Jewish Diaspora. One chilling example of this belief was the attack on the Jewish Community Center in Buenos Aires in 1994 in revenge for the assassination of Hezbollah leader Abbas al-Musawi.

    In summation, nothing can justify harming anyone in any way whatsoever because of his national or religious affiliation. One must not accept that many Jews throughout Europe will be fraught with fear as they make their way to the synagogue during the coming High Holidays. Nothing can justify violating the rights of another people to freedom and self-determination. Not all anti-Semitism has its roots in Israel’s behavior, and not all criticism of Israel has its roots in anti-Semitism. Supporters of the occupation should not recruit the help of Jews around the world. Anti-Semitism is far too serious an affliction for us to turn the fight against it into a political weapon.

     
    off course  that is written by Akiva Eldar   but  well let us see if we could remove all settlement since 1968 or so wha do you think will happen Akiva Eldar ?

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #787 - September 14, 2014, 11:30 AM

    http://www.alquds.co.uk/

    http://en.alquds.com/en

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #788 - September 17, 2014, 12:43 PM

    ]url=http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/09/jewish-extremist-visit-al-aqsa-change-statu-quo.html]Jewish extremists try to change status quo at Al-Aqsa [/url] Says news from    Palestine Pulse

    Quote
    When Moshe Feiglin, deputy speaker of the Israeli Knesset, set foot in Al-Aqsa Mosque around 10 a.m. Sept. 14, he was on more than a tourist visit. His venture to the mosque and short prayer in the area was seen as an attempt to declare Jewish sovereignty over the Islamic holy place. It violated agreements not to change the status quo and cast doubt on an assertion by the Israeli prime minister's office that the status quo at Al-Aqsa would not change.
     
    The rebellious parliamentarian walked barefoot in the courtyard of the Haram al-Sharif, an act meant to pay reverence to the area that what Jews believe was once the site of the Jewish temple. In 2013, an Israeli court barred Feiglin from ascending to the mosque area for fear that his uncoordinated visit might spark protests. Feiglin is so controversial that the United Kingdom refused him entry in 2008.

    That Feiglin would go to the Haram al-Sharif was known for days and required a large contingent of Israeli police. The visit proceeded after Palestinian men and women worshipers under the age of 40 were barred from the area and all except one of the gates to Islam’s third-holiest mosque were closed.

     Islamic officials have been screaming and shouting in opposition, but getting little response from the Arab and Islamic worlds, which are engulfed by their own problems. Azzam Khatib, director of the waqf in Jerusalem, told Al-Monitor that the Israeli government has frankly “explained to Jordan that no decision will apply to Al-Aqsa Mosque and that the status quo established since 1967 will remain respected.” He still called on the Arab and Islamic nations to “seriously support Jordan to protect these sanctuaries.”
     
    The current nationalist-religious fusion has been created with leaders like Feiglin gaining critical positions in the Israeli Knesset and government. Netanyahu is constantly worried about the threat to his own position from this extreme right, which dominates his own Likud Party. Religious-nationalist extremism, if allowed to continue, will have the same destructive consequences that other similar extremism has had in the region. Allowing it to change the status quo at Islam’s third-holiest place will most certainly lead to the eruption of a religious war in the Middle East.

    Eruption of a religious war in the Middle East  ....  Yap...that is what Daoud Kuttab  A Columnist   for Al-Monitor's Palestine pulse writes. 

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vmkOD7u-Rg

    Great .. AmeriKA future presidential candidate and that MK Moshe Feiglin together

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #789 - October 14, 2014, 06:33 PM

    Facing increased right-wing violence, Israeli leftists learn to fight back
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #790 - October 22, 2014, 11:41 PM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvTgqBluojM

    ..................."We hold Arabs for Lower standards"................

    the reason for that is very simple..they follow youngest of three Abrahamic  religions..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #791 - October 23, 2014, 08:17 AM

    I think I just got Ebola of the above video.

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  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #792 - October 30, 2014, 06:06 PM

    Palestine recognized as state by Sweden

    Quote
    The Swedish government has officially decided to recognize Palestine, with the move announced in a speech by the country's new Foreign Minister Margot Wallström.


    Israel recalls ambassador to Sweden for consultations

    Quote
    Sweden became the first major western country to recognize a Palestinian state on Thursday, triggering a sharp response from Foreign Minister Avigdor Liberman who recalled Israel ambassador to Sweden Isaac Bachman to Jerusalem for consultations to protest Sweden's recognition Thursday of "Palestine."  Sweden is the first major western country to do so.

    Stockholm needs to understand relations in the Middle East are more complicated than self-assembly furniture at IKEA, said Liberman. He termed the move an “unfortunate decision that strengthens the extremists.”


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  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #793 - November 01, 2014, 09:40 AM

    This is legend! Cheesy

    Quote
    Stockholm needs to understand relations in the Middle East are more complicated than self-assembly furniture at IKEA, said Liberman.





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  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #794 - January 15, 2015, 02:21 PM

    A non-religous israeli Jewish friend just shared this in the wake of the massacres against Charlie Hebdo:

    Facebook link to the discussion if anyone wants to praise or share: Jonathan Ofir

    Quote
    Germany –Israel: The roles have reversed
    J. Ofir

    Forward note: I am an Israeli citizen.

    I am being despised by some, ignored by others, and some of my closest contcts ‘want to kill me’, so I am directly told - as a euphemism, fortunately for me, but still a disturbing one. All this is due to my posting of views in fully transparent English on Facebook, views concerning the state of Israel today, views which make these people and the state they personally identify with look bad. Well, it is bad. And it’s getting worse.

    So I will continue unabated, for it is way too late, and I will not be a Martin Niemöller ‘who did not speak out’.

    This writing may thus be the most provoking for those who don’t like my views – yet probably the most serious and outspoken for me.
    .....
    70 years after the biggest genocide that has befallen mankind, Germany now stands out as an overwhelmingly liberal and tolerant country. In the wake of the Charlie Hebdo and anti-Jewish attacks in Paris last week, Germany’s leadership stands at the front line in a demonstration not against terror, but against nationalist and xenophobic extremism and intolerance which showed its face once again in the racist ultra-nationalist demonstrations that had taken place earlier in various German cities. Despite these forces of darkness that loom and have most always loomed in Germany, Germany today is an overwhelmingly liberal and tolerant country, which could and should serve as an example for any country today who seeks the same.

    And yet the state which has been historically portraying itself as the bastion of the ‘Jewish nation’, which has built its moral fiber on the admonishment of the evil it faced over 70 years ago, has now become an example of the same nationalist xenophobia which brought to its near annihilation then.

    When the Israeli Prime-Minister Netanyahu marched in the front line of the ‘march against terror’ in Paris, waving to the crowd as if it was a ‘je suis Bibi’ march, he was not marching for tolerance, he was marching against terror – and he tried to garner support for the Israeli cause, in the inclusion of Hamas as part of ‘global jihad’, although Hamas is a local resistance movement, which is no longer viewed as a terror organization by the EU – Hamas hasn’t got a global jihad outlook.

    Netanyahu tried to win cheap points on the event, and even attempted to strengthen the sense of the ‘fortress Israel’ by suggesting to the Jews of France that their home is Israel, which became a way of saying that if it gets bad, there’s a way out. That part was not well taken by the Jewish community leaders, who realized that expressions of this kind only support those who wish to get Jews out – these Jews don’t necessarily see Israel as their home. And this is regardless of the fact that many more Jewish civilians get killed in Israel from terror than in Europe – Israel is overall a much more dangerous place. Israeli commentators on leading television networks commented on how the crowd at the Paris synagogue burst into a song of the national anthem after Netanyahu’s speech – and for an Israeli that would naturally mean the Israeli national anthem – but no, they sang the French one. This was the mark of their allegiance to France and enlightenment.

    At the same time that Netanyahu tries to portray Israel as a part of the western world, facing a threat of global jihad which puts everyone in the same boat so-to-speak, Palestinian journalists are jailed for many months on prolonged administrative detention for posting far less provocative drawings than Charlie Hebdo’s. A publication at Haaretz recently of a cartoon juxtaposing the death of ten journalists in France against thirteen killed in the recent Gaza incursion, drew a mass of death threats from people who found no reason to hide their names:
    “We must do what the terrorists did to them in France, but at Haaretz,” wrote Facebook user Chai Aloni. “Why is there no terror attack at Haaretz?” wrote Moni Ponte. “Let the terrorists eliminate them,” wrote Daniella Peretz. “With God’s help, the journalists at Haaretz will be murdered just like in France,” wrote Miki Dahan. As Danit Hajaj put it, “They should die.” “Haaretz is where the terrorists should have gone,” wrote Riki Michael. “Death to traitors,” added Moshe Mehager. “I hope that terrorism reaches Haaretz as well,” wrote Tuval Shalom. “With God’s help, [there will be] a Hamas operation that kills all of you, like the journalists in France,” wrote Ruti Hevroni.

    See more at:
    http://mondoweiss.net/…/…/journalists-publication-newspaper…

    Euphemisms, empty threats? Possibly, but history has shown us just how real such vile rhetoric can become. These are expressions which would befit any global-jihadist were they aimed at Jews – but wait a minute, they are aimed at Jews, aren’t they? Yes, the violent xenophobic and self-protectionist spirit in Israel has now become a widespread fascism – a one nation, us against them – and death to the traitors.
    Just imagine if those names of Jewish Israelis were Palestinians – instead of Chai Aloni, Ahmed Faraj. Do you think Ahmed Faraj would now be in trouble? I think he would be in administrative detention right now. Chai Aloni will probably not even speak to any authority, they would dismiss it as harmless rhetoric.

    80 years after Germany’s 1930’s, Israel has come to resemble it in alarming ways. Israeli right wing politicians are competing on getting a Nation-State bill through. Israeli legislation has been raining with discriminatory and anti-democratic legislation in the past years.
    “There are Judeo-Nazis!” shouted the late professor Yeshayahu Leibovitch, an orthodox Israeli Jew who spoke his mind when most were silent. In the incident I witnessed where he said this, he was referring to the president of the Suprem Court, who had just effectively legalized torture. He noted that the ‘enlightened world’ has abolished such practices already two centuries ago. Not that it did not occur in other places – but it was illegal. Indeed, Israel had become the only country in the world to have legalized torture in our times.
    Naturally, Americans made use of this ‘legal precedence’ in attempt to justify illegal torture practices, which poses the question as to exactly what kind of ‘light’ Israel is ‘unto the nations’…

    Indeed, the Supreme Court of Israel, despite often being mocked as a leftist institution in nationalist Israeli discourse, has become a rubber stamp of the massive occupation-industry which has been working its cogwheels relentlessly for nearly half a century. Despite occasional rulings in the favor of this person or that locality, the Supreme Court has not managed to deem the occupation itself illegal, nor the separation wall as a whole (it’s two times longer than the ‘Green-line’ itself due to its massive annexations of Palestinian land), and this despite ICJ rulings to the opposite – whenever Israel is faced with international legal scrutiny, which is completely online with international law, the Supreme Court makes a ruling that manages to override it. This happens because it relies on an alliance with the Israeli security forces, which provide it with recommendations and assessments based upon ‘classified information’ which the court is not privy to. The courts allegiance thus rests with Israel’s so called ‘security needs’, and thus the court is in the pocket of politics.

    Israel boasts its stature as a law abiding state, and many liberals take pride in the Supreme Court, because it supposedly imposes scrutiny upon the state and its security forces. But that is not really the case. After the example of the Nürnberg Laws, no country can use that argument anymore, that it is enlightened in its being a law-abiding nation. The question after Nürnberg will always have to be – which laws?
    Israel often boasts with the ‘only democracy in the region’ card. What democracy?– one that holds a population that would otherwise constitute one-third of its citizenship as stand-by humans with no citizenship rights whilst it effectively annexes their land bit by bit? A democracy that depends upon ethnic majority of its Jewish constituency to uphold its other allegiance – the Jewish Nation State (bill or no bill)? A democracy where at exactly the same spot, one person throwing a stone can be shot or administratively detained for an effectively unlimited period of time (with ad lib extensions), whilst the other will not even be dealt with?

    It has become clear for many, that Israel has become an Apartheid state. When that is said, especially by non-Jews, they get the classic anti-Semitic-persona-smear, like in the case of former USA democrat president Jimmy Carter. I say it, and it becomes a bit more difficult to take the ‘anti-Semitic’ card out, but one could always use the self-hating Jew card or, even better, if one lives abroad, an anti-Israeli traitor.
    But in the end we have to face reality, and no matter how much Netanyahu tries to portray himself and Israel as an enlightened nation amongst a darkness of growing global jihad, a little David-fortress of good protecting enlightenment in a region of primitivism, it is becoming ever more clear for the world, that this is but a cover-up, a smokescreen for a criminal practice. In fact, one could say, and I do, that these aforementioned practices are a major factor in the creation of ‘Islamist-extremism’ that Netanyahu lashes at.

    No person and no people are immune to moral corruption, and no person or people should be judged as incapable of improving. Germany has proven this better than anyone. For Israeli Jews to consider themselves unable to reach the same darkness as Germany did in its 1930’s and 1940’s would be to consider ones ethnic origin (real or imagined) genetically superior. And as we may recall, it was this view that sat at the core of the Nazi ideology.
    Copenhagen,
    15. January 2015


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  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #795 - January 15, 2015, 02:36 PM

    Wow!! I salute Jonathan Ofir !!
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #796 - January 15, 2015, 02:40 PM

    The Israeli left is struggling to survive. They might all end up in exile just like Jonathan.

    Sounds a lot like another group I care for. The left in the Arab and Muslim countries.

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  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #797 - January 15, 2015, 07:31 PM

    The thing that always happens when you come out as pro-Palestine is that you are asked some variation of the question, "Why don't you support the right of the Jewish people to survive as a distinct cultural and religious entity?"

    The answer to that should always be: The Jews have survived after inventing themselves and a historical narrative for their identity for several thousand years, despite almost never during that time having a government in Palestine or anywhere else. For most of the time that Judaism existed, it existed as a separatist Canaanite cult which favored one particular god of the Canaanite pantheon above the rest, and didn't work one day a week or keep pigs. In fact, when what we today identify as Judaism came to power in Palestine for a few hundred years before being overthrown by foreign powers, they were divided into two separate states, Judah and Israel, which fought on the governmental level about what correct worship of their god meant. The nation of Judah won the ideological debate after the takeover by foreign powers when the people who worshiped the national religion of Judah won the support of King Cyrus, and the religion of the nation of Israel was completely erased from history by assimilation.

    So Jews are not a separate ethnic group. Their religion is not a unique gift from God, rather it is the one that won a centuries-long bloody conflict for supremacy between two separate Judaisms. The Jewish people have almost always lived peacefully under foreign rule, and attempts to claim land have almost always ended in their slaughter. The few times that they have won land, they have ruthlessly slaughtered the other inhabitants, and most of their slaughters of enemies or the death of powerful Jews who attempted to slaughter their enemies have been made holidays.

    Recognizing this pattern, after the Bar Kokhba revolt failed and nearly divided the Jewish people into two religious sects that would either await his return (Christian-style) or deny that he was the messiah, the Jewish sages of the late Rabbinical period mandated that there should never be another Jewish attempt to reclaim the land by force. Rather, they stressed that it must come by ideology, that a powerful, charismatic Jewish leader must unite the world in the belief of the superiority of Judaism and bring the world into willing submission and acceptance of their statehood that way.

    Therefore, denying that the state of Israel should exist, or that the Jewish people need a state to preserve their identity, or that the Jews in Israel are just trying to defend themselves against the evil, murderous Arabs, is not only wrong, it's completely misrepresenting the whole history of Judaism.

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #798 - January 15, 2015, 08:05 PM

    Wow galfromusa mysmilie_977 May I post your response to Jonathan?

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  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #799 - January 15, 2015, 08:10 PM

    Sure, Nikolaj Smiley This is the first time I've ever written up the ideas in an organized way like that, it probably needs a few more points and some footnotes, but yeah. Smiley

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #800 - January 15, 2015, 09:02 PM

    The thing that always happens when you come out as pro-Palestine is that you are asked some variation of the question, "Why don't you support the right of the Jewish people to survive as a distinct cultural and religious entity?"

    The answer to that should always be: The Jews have survived after inventing themselves and a historical narrative for their identity for several thousand years, despite almost never during that time having a government in Palestine or anywhere else. For most of the time that Judaism existed, it existed as a separatist Canaanite cult which favored one particular god of the Canaanite pantheon above the rest, and didn't work one day a week or keep pigs. In fact, when what we today identify as Judaism came to power in Palestine for a few hundred years before being overthrown by foreign powers, they were divided into two separate states, Judah and Israel, which fought on the governmental level about what correct worship of their god meant. The nation of Judah won the ideological debate after the takeover by foreign powers when the people who worshiped the national religion of Judah won the support of King Cyrus, and the religion of the nation of Israel was completely erased from history by assimilation.

    So Jews are not a separate ethnic group. Their religion is not a unique gift from God, rather it is the one that won a centuries-long bloody conflict for supremacy between two separate Judaisms. The Jewish people have almost always lived peacefully under foreign rule, and attempts to claim land have almost always ended in their slaughter. The few times that they have won land, they have ruthlessly slaughtered the other inhabitants, and most of their slaughters of enemies or the death of powerful Jews who attempted to slaughter their enemies have been made holidays.

    Recognizing this pattern, after the Bar Kokhba revolt failed and nearly divided the Jewish people into two religious sects that would either await his return (Christian-style) or deny that he was the messiah, the Jewish sages of the late Rabbinical period mandated that there should never be another Jewish attempt to reclaim the land by force. Rather, they stressed that it must come by ideology, that a powerful, charismatic Jewish leader must unite the world in the belief of the superiority of Judaism and bring the world into willing submission and acceptance of their statehood that way.

    Therefore, denying that the state of Israel should exist, or that the Jewish people need a state to preserve their identity, or that the Jews in Israel are just trying to defend themselves against the evil, murderous Arabs, is not only wrong, it's completely misrepresenting the whole history of Judaism.


    Hello Jewess(gal_fro_ musa)  this Jew will not agree with what you wrote...

    I would have agreed with you if it was some 7th century... In 21st century.. Nope

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #801 - January 15, 2015, 09:21 PM

    Hello Jewess(gal_fro_ musa)  this Jew will not agree with what you wrote...

    I would have agreed with you if it was some 7th century... In 21st century.. Nope


    Which part in particular do you disagree with? I could (and probably should) provide sources from the academic and religious literature for all that. Although it is true that due to inbreeding and separation by exile, the modern Jewish people can largely be identified by their DNA, it's not entirely true, and they could not have been distinguished during the early days of Judaism from other local Canaanites, but due to two-way assimilation (Jews assimilating into other cultures and to a much lesser extent people from other cultures being assimilated by the Jewish community), it is not true that all Jews share a genetic heritage more than or the same as people of other ethnic backgrounds.

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #802 - January 15, 2015, 09:31 PM

    A great place to start is this excellent playlist of a Yale University course on the Hebrew Bible, made available through OpenYale. It does not require a knowledge of the actual contents of the Hebrew Bible, and might best be approached without one. It provides a wealth of information about the socio-political-economic climate in which each book of the Bible was written, and provides sources to the documents proving this history. It also talks in great detail about who the fictional characters in the Bible are and when and why they were created. It talks about who the real original authors of the Bible are, what pieces they wrote, who took those disparate tales and combined them, and more. So I absolutely recommend watching it, despite it being ~24 hours long.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V006bX4mlu4&list=PLfbxB0kKayCQ2Hf6JlCCDN6z47ySYxsCW

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #803 - January 15, 2015, 09:45 PM

    I voted for Israel.

    For me this is more of a war between Muslims and non Muslims than a national struggle between Arabs and Jews.
    I will be pro Palestine if Palestinian Arabs will be anything but Muslims. But then there will be less troubles for Israel and they would have no ground to keep this kind of politics.

    I do understand why there are some that still believe(better saying... hope) that 1 state solution or 2 states solution will work, but practically that's not possible. Where is the land that Muslims or non Muslims are leaving in peace and harmony? Let's face it, there will be no peace there till the moment either Jews or Arabs are been driven out of that land. Coexistence is not practical.

    So, it seems for me that Mr. Netanyahu is working for the only peacefully solution that exist. He is driving Muslims (together with some other non Jews) out of Israel and West Bank. He is colonizing West Bank with Haredi. As it looks now by 2035 the Jews population will grow faster than the Muslim population, not taking into account immigration to Israel and emigration of Arabs from Israel. In 50 years Jews could be a majority in West Bank.

    It is unjust, unfair for Arabs, but unfortunately is the only feasible solution.
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #804 - January 15, 2015, 10:21 PM

    ...For me this is more of a war between Muslims and non Muslims than a national struggle between Arabs and Jews.
    ...Where is the land that Muslims or non Muslims are leaving in peace and harmony? Let's face it, there will be no peace there till the moment either Jews or Arabs are been driven out of that land. Coexistence is not practical.

    So, it seems for me that Mr. Netanyahu is working for the only peacefully solution that exist. He is driving Muslims (together with some other non Jews) out of Israel and West Bank. He is colonizing West Bank with Haredi. As it looks now by 2035 the Jews population will grow faster than the Muslim population, not taking into account immigration to Israel and emigration of Arabs from Israel. In 50 years Jews could be a majority in West Bank.

    It is unjust, unfair for Arabs, but unfortunately is the only feasible solution.



    Well, it's not just the Muslim Arabs who are feeling the pain of Israel's boot on their necks or fighting back against them, is it? It's just that Christians in America believe in Christian Dominionism, and they believe that the Jews must return to Israel before Jesus can return to slaughter the Jews and everyone else who isn't them. So they end up supporting the Jews in the hopes that it will lead to the complete destruction of the Jews, kinda convoluted. But anyway the result of that narrative is that they portray the fighting as between Judaism and Islam (which will both be defeated by Jesus).

    As much as I hate to say it, Jews are living pretty peacefully in Iran.


    ^A 100% not photoshopped picture of some rabbi from the Neturei Karta and Ahmadinejad.

    Co-existence between Palestinian Jews and Arabs worked for ~1,200 years. Then some people who hated the Jews, like "Zionist visionary" Theodor Herzl, decided to support the Nazis in the hopes that it would lead to the founding of a separate Jewish state where, like I said earlier, the Jews would eventually be destroyed. And then a bunch of Zionist "Jews" moved to Israel and started provoking and killing Arabs, to make the Arabs attack them back, so that they'd be "justified" in the wholesale slaughter of the native Arabs. The native Jews who had been living there for generations were against this, and only joined in when it became obvious that that was the only way to defend themselves in the face of the total war the Zionist instigators had caused.

    In fact, observant Jews were some of the first people the Zionist instigators killed, like Dr. Ya'akov Yisrael De Haan. So, yeah.

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #805 - January 15, 2015, 10:58 PM

    Christians in America believe in Christian Dominionism, and they believe that the Jews must return to Israel before Jesus can return to slaughter the Jews and everyone else who isn't them. So they end up supporting the Jews in the hopes that it will lead to the complete destruction of the Jews, kinda convoluted.


    imo that's always been one of the most fucked up things about the "friendship" of the Christian right in America and Israel - I mean with friends like that who needs enemies.

    How do the Israelis you know view the US Christian right, Gal? - I suppose it is just a marriage of convenience?
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #806 - January 15, 2015, 11:09 PM

    A marriage of convenience with 50 million Americans.

    If the Zionists only lived in Israel the United Nations wouldn't have had its balls cut off. Which affects every other conflict including the impotence regarding Syria.

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  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #807 - January 15, 2015, 11:17 PM

    imo that's always been one of the most fucked up things about the "friendship" of the Christian right in America and Israel - I mean with friends like that who needs enemies.

    How do the Israelis you know view the US Christian right, Gal? - I suppose it is just a marriage of convenience?


    Most of the "Jews" Israel has bused in are not Jews in the sense that they believe in Judaism, they're Jews in the sense that they had one or more ancestors that did. So those ones, the views vary WIDELY, some are even Nazis (no joke). I could technically claim right of return and be paid to move into an Arab settlement, although in actual fact I'd be killed by one of the people who knows my back-story.

    The ones that are observant Jews don't believe in Jesus, so they don't think he's going to return and slaughter them, so they view Christians with a mixture of humor, annoyance, and disgust, where they end up being nice to their faces just like the Christian Domionists are nice to their faces, and then once each others backs are turned they laugh about how deluded the other group is.

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #808 - January 15, 2015, 11:35 PM

    Oh humanity!! When will we grow up!!
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #809 - January 15, 2015, 11:43 PM

    It is work in progress. It is called evolution. It is only a theory though. Inshallah it will eventually be fixed.

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