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Theme Changer

 Poll

  • Question: Which one (if any) are you more inclined to side with? (Give reasons)
  • Israel - 49 (30.1%)
  • Palestine - 114 (69.9%)
  • Total Voters: 163

 Topic: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?

 (Read 123847 times)
  • Previous page 1 ... 24 25 2627 28 ... 38 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #750 - March 25, 2014, 11:15 AM

    There's too much to consider when thinking about the conflict. BUT, the one thing I do know is this:

    If the Palestinians had their way, Israel would be likely wiped out, and the Palestinian country that takes its place would most likely be just another unproductive third-world Islamic country. The oppression of women and non-Muslims, along with the many other quirks that come with an Islamic theocracy will prevail, and that's not something I'd wish on anyone.


    Pretty much this. Also, given how long it's been since Israel was established, regardless of whether or not establishing a Jewish homeland was legitimate, it is here now and it's not feasible for the country to be wiped out. The Arabs need to come to the table with that in mind and drop this "we refuse to recognize Israel" BS.
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #751 - April 11, 2014, 08:35 PM

    Reflections of an Arab Jew: http://www.bintjbeil.com/E/occupation/arab_jew.html

    Quote
    I am an Arab Jew. Or, more specifically, an Iraqi Israeli woman living, writing and teaching in the U.S. Most members of my family were born and raised in Baghdad, and now live in Iraq, Israel, the U.S., England, and Holland. When my grandmother first encountered Israeli society in the '50s, she was convinced that the people who looked, spoke and ate so differently--the European Jews--were actually European Christians. Jewishness for her generation was inextricably associated with Middle Easterness. My grandmother, who still lives in Israel and still communicates largely in Arabic, had to be taught to speak of "us" as Jews and "them" as Arabs. For Middle Easterners, the operating distinction had always been "Muslim," "Jew," and "Christian," not Arab versus Jew. The assumption was that "Arabness" referred to a common shared culture and language, albeit with religious differences.

    Americans are often amazed to discover the existentially nauseating or charmingly exotic possibilities of such a syncretic identity. I recall a well-established colleague who despite my elaborate lessons on the history of Arab Jews, still had trouble understanding that I was not a tragic anomaly--for instance, the daughter of an Arab (Palestinian) and an Israeli (European Jew). Living in North America makes it even more difficult to communicate that we are Jews and yet entitled to our Middle Eastern difference. And that we are Arabs and yet entitled to our religious difference, like Arab Christians and Arab Muslims.

    It was precisely the policing of cultural borders in Israel that led some of us to escape into the metropolises of syncretic identities. Yet, in an American context, we face again a hegemony that allows us to narrate a single Jewish memory, i.e., a European one. For those of us who don't hide our Middle Easterness under one Jewish "we," it becomes tougher and tougher to exist in an American context hostile to the very notion of Easterness.

    As an Arab Jew, I am often obliged to explain the "mysteries" of this oxymoronic entity. That we have spoken Arabic, not Yiddish; that for millennia our cultural creativity, secular and religious, had been largely articulated in Arabic (Maimonides being one of the few intellectuals to "make it" into the consciousness of the West); and that even the most religious of our communities in the Middle East and North Africa never expressed themselves in Yiddish-accented Hebrew prayers, nor did they practice liturgical-gestural norms and sartorial codes favoring the dark colors of centuries-ago Poland. Middle Eastern women similarly never wore wigs; their hair covers, if worn, consisted of different variations on regional clothing (and in the wake of British and French imperialism, many wore Western-style clothes). If you go to our synagogues, even in New York, Montreal, Paris or London, you'll be amazed to hear the winding quarter tones of our music which the uninitiated might imagine to be coming from a mosque.

    Now that the three cultural topographies that compose my ruptured and dislocated history--Iraq, Israel and the U.S.--have been involved in a war, it is crucial to say that we exist. Some of us refuse to dissolve so as to facilitate "neat" national and ethnic divisions. My anxiety and pain during the Scud attacks on Israel, where some of my family lives, did not cancel out my fear and anguish for the victims of the bombardment of Iraq, where I also have relatives.

    War, however, is the friend of binarisms, leaving little place for complex identities. The Gulf War, for example, intensified a pressure already familiar to the Arab Jewish diaspora in the wake of the Israeli-Arab conflict: a pressure to choose between being a Jew and being an Arab. For our families, who have lived in Mesopotamia since at least the Babylonian exile, who have been Arabized for millennia, and who were abruptly dislodged to Israel 45 years ago, to be suddenly forced to assume a homogenous European Jewish identity based on experiences in Russia, Poland and Germany, was an exercise in self devastation. To be a European or American Jew has hardly been perceived as a contradiction, but to be an Arab Jew has been seen as a kind of logical paradox, even an ontological subversion. This binarism has led many Oriental Jews (our name in Israel referring to our common Asian and African countries of origin is Mizrahi or Mizrachi) to a profound and visceral schizophrenia, since for the first time in our history Arabness and Jewishness have been imposed as antonyms.

    Intellectual discourse in the West highlights a Judeo-Christian tradition, yet rarely acknowledges the Judeo-Muslim culture of the Middle East, of North Africa, or of pre-Expulsion Spain (1492) and of the European parts of the Ottoman Empire. The Jewish experience in the Muslim world has often been portrayed as an unending nightmare of oppression and humiliation.

    Although I in no way want to idealize that experience--there were occasional tensions, discriminations, even violence--on the whole, we lived quite comfortably within Muslim societies.

    Our history simply cannot be discussed in European Jewish terminology. As Iraqi Jews, while retaining a communal identity, we were generally well integrated and indigenous to the country, forming an inseparable part of its social and cultural life. Thoroughly Arabized, we used Arabic even in hymns and religious ceremonies. The liberal and secular trends of the 20th century engendered an even stronger association of Iraqi Jews and Arab culture, which brought Jews into an extremely active arena in public and cultural life. Prominent Jewish writers, poets and scholars played a vital role in Arab culture, distinguishing themselves in Arabic speaking theater, in music, as singers, composers, and players of traditional instruments.

    In Egypt, Morocco, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Tunisia, Jews became members of legislatures, of municipal councils, of the judiciary, and even occupied high economic positions. (The finance minister of Iraq in the '40s was Ishak Sasson, and in Egypt, Jamas Sanua--higher positions, ironically, than those our community had generally achieved within the Jewish state until the 1990s!)

    The same historical process that dispossessed Palestinians of their property, lands and national-political rights, was linked to the dispossession of Middle Eastern and North African Jews of their property, lands, and rootedness in Muslim countries. As refugees, or mass immigrants (depending on one's political perspective), we were forced to leave everything behind and give up our Iraqi passports. The same process also affected our uprootedness or ambiguous positioning within Israel itself, where we have been systematically discriminated against by institutions that deployed their energies and material to the consistent advantage of European Jews and to the consistent disadvantage of Oriental Jews. Even our physiognomies betray us, leading to internalized colonialism or physical misperception. Sephardic Oriental women often dye their dark hair blond, while the men have more than once been arrested or beaten when mistaken for Palestinians. What for Ashkenazi immigrants from Russian and Poland was a social aliya (literally "ascent") was for Oriental Sephardic Jews a yerida ("descent").

    Stripped of our history, we have been forced by our no-exit situation to repress our collective nostalgia, at least within the public sphere. The pervasive notion of "one people" reunited in their ancient homeland actively disauthorizes any affectionate memory of life before Israel. We have never been allowed to mourn a trauma that the images of Iraq's destruction only intensified and crystallized for some of us. Our cultural creativity in Arabic, Hebrew and Aramaic is hardly studied in Israeli schools, and it is becoming difficult to convince our children that we actually did exist there, and that some of us are still there in Iraq, Morocco, Yemen and Iran.

    Western media much prefer the spectacle of the triumphant progress of Western technology to the survival of the peoples and cultures of the Middle East. The case of Arab Jews is just one of many elisions. From the outside, there is little sense of our community, and even less sense of the diversity of our political perspectives. Oriental-Sephardic peace movements, from the Black Panthers of the '70s to the new Keshet (a "Rainbow" coalition of Mizrahi groups in Israel) not only call for a just peace for Israelis and Palestinians, but also for the cultural, political, and economic integration of Israel/Palestine into the Middle East. And thus an end to the binarisms of war, an end to a simplistic charting of Middle Eastern identities.

  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #752 - April 11, 2014, 08:39 PM

    You find the most interesting things.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #753 - April 11, 2014, 08:52 PM

    Thanks. I just found this video as well. Cairo in 1956. Nothing to do with the thread but worth putting somewhere.

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=4KyA4Uw6-hs&feature=youtu.be
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #754 - April 29, 2014, 12:51 PM

    The conflict explained with rap

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3by9FoEFB8

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #755 - May 01, 2014, 09:17 PM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzCAqXrBGtU

    Quote
    Christy, a Palestinian Christian shared her political views and experiences on the internal events that happened regarding the Israel-Palestine conflict, and as a consequence her family is being intimidated, threatened and harassed. Christy herself has also received death threats in the UK since speaking on camera. Her family are in a serious situation. She is making a public plea to Dr. Saeb Erekat to honour the promise he made to her personally on Al Jazeera TV.


    and the tube below was her family on 60mts..
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toNtRx2NV8Q#t=421

    Christians of Palestine
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lfCqisw8uQ

    And A Conversation With  that Saeb Erakat
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCFct65ea0A

    and this is Tawfiq Tirawi  one of the Fatah  leader

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pznF4HYhXA

    well watch him his own language..

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=770_1249226458

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #756 - May 03, 2014, 05:33 AM

    The conflict explained with rap

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3by9FoEFB8

    Not exactly objective...
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #757 - May 05, 2014, 03:04 PM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd2lZosBrig


    AFGHAN JEWS
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mFzDRIXNbE

    Pakistan
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCwb6cIBZmg

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #758 - May 08, 2014, 04:55 PM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib134wiSGCU

    That is  Dutch Muslim Youths

    Quote
    A roundtable of adults and children discussing Jews. The children, who are Muslim Turks, praise Hitler and his genocidal inclinations. One of the boys says, “on the one hand I am satisfied with what Hitler did with the Jews…” while another responds that Hitler was justified in killing millions of Jews because “now millions of Palestinians are being killed.”

    The four young boys are joined in a roundtable by an older gentleman (identified as Mehmet Sahin, a researcher at Amsterdam’s Vrije Universiteit) who repeatedly challenges their assertions. When one of the boys asks the interviewer if he hates Jews, they seem surprised when he responds in the negative.


    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #759 - May 08, 2014, 05:22 PM

    Q&A  on Property Destruction and Land Confiscation in Palestine

    Israel’s settlement policy in the occupied Palestinian territory

    http://www.icahd.org/

    World Report 2012: Israel/Occupied Palestinian Territories

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anOMM5S6NMw

    That is  Edward Said.

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #760 - June 27, 2014, 11:46 PM

    What is cooking in that Paleland? any new Palehood stories??  So reading casually that palestinechronicle  Ramzy Baroud's article caught my eye   he writes in it  with a heading Reverting to the Ummah: Who is the ‘Angry Muslim’ and Why"

    Apart from usual rants from an educated Muslim., he says
    Quote
    “Brother, brother,” a young man called on me as I hurriedly left a lecture hall in some community center in Durban, South Africa. This happened at the height of the Afghanistan and Iraq wars, when all efforts at stopping the ferocious US-western military drives against these two countries terribly failed.
    Quote
    The young man was dressed in traditional Afghani Pashtun attire, and accompanied by a friend of his. With palpable nervousness, he asked a question that seemed completely extraneous to my lecture on the use of people history to understand protracted historical phenomena using Palestine as a model.

    “Brother, do you believe that there is hope for the Muslim Ummah?” He inquired about the future of a nation in which he believed we both indisputably belonged to, and anxiously awaited as if my answer carried any weight at all, and would put his evident worries at ease.
    Perhaps more startling than his question is that I was not surprised in the least. His is a intergenerational question that Muslim youth have been asking even before the decline and final collapse of the Ottoman Empire, the last standing Caliphate, by the end of the First World War.
    Despite major historical tumults, the Caliphate had remained in consistent existence since the Rashidun Caliphs (the ‘rightly guided’ Caliphs) starting with Abu Bakr in 632 CE, following the death of Prophet Mohammed.

    ................even if Arabic is the original language of the Holy Koran. Ummah is a ‘nation’ that is predicated on a set of ageless moral values, originated in the Koran, epitomized through the teachings and legacy (Sunnah) of Prophet Mohammed, and guided by Ijtihad “diligence” – explained as the independent reasoning – of Muslim scholars (ulama) based on the Koran and Sunnah.......
    Quote
    ........Muslims possessed their own equivalence of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the Geneva Conventions, civil codes and much more starting nearly 14 centuries ago......

    .....What was more consequential than the geographic breakdown of the Ummah was the collapse of the very fabric of society, the disintegration of the laws that governed every individual or collective relationship, every commercial transaction, rules regarding the environment, charity, the law of war, and so on. Another dissolution also took place: that of the authentic and organic moral values which allowed the Ummah to persist as many empires failed, and flourish while others decayed. The organic, self-propelled system was replaced by alternatives that have all deteriorated to the very last one.

    And that is where the roots of the ‘angry Muslim’ began......
    Quote
    ........... Colonized Muslim societies eventually adopted the rules and laws of its former colonizers, and continued to vacillate within their sphere of influence..........

    Post-independence Muslim nations were a hideous mix of tribalism and cronyism, with a self-serving interpretation of Islam and western laws and civil codes that were all tailored so very carefully to ensure the survival of an utterly corrupt status quo; where local rulers ensure supremacy over defeated, disoriented collectives, and western powers sustain their interests of by all means necessary.

    .........Western wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were not the exclusive harbinger of Muslim youth anger, humiliation and the current violence underway in Syria, Iraq, and other Muslim countries. The wars were the catalyst. Picture a group of ‘foreign jihadists’ as they are called, sharing a meal between battles somewhere near northern Iraq and imagine what they possibly have in common: an Iraq tortured in Bucca, a Lebanese who fought the Israelis in south Lebanon, a Syrian whose family had been killed in Aleppo, and so on. But it is not only a Middle Eastern question. The alienation and constant targeting of French and British Muslim immigrants, their mosques, their cultures, languages, their very identity, when coupled with the plight of Muslims everywhere could too have its own violent manifestation as well.

    British Prime Minister David Cameron is worried about the threat to the national security of his country as a result of the ongoing strife in Iraq, instigated by territorial gains of the Islamic State of Iraq and Levant (ISIL). He doesn’t seem to understand or care to understand his country’s role in the violence..............
    Quote
    US President Barack Obama continues to preach from the White House about violence and the moral responsibility of his country as if the destructive and leading role played by Washington in the Middle East is completely removed from the state of hopelessness and humiliation felt by a generation of Muslim youth.

     It is as if war, foreign occupation and the systematic destruction of an entire civilization – still referred to by many Muslims as an ‘Ummah’ – will come at no price, aside from fluctuating oil prices.

    .
    .............Who are these jihadists? Many continue to ask and persistently attempt to offer answers. CIA agents? Gulf-funded terrorist groups? Misguided youth ushered in by an Iranian conspiracy to justify its appetite for regional hegemony? Foreign jihadists fighting against the Assad regime in Syria?  Or perhaps with the Assad regime against his opposition? Conspiracy theories thrive in time of great mysteries.
    Quote
    ............... It is an escape to history, from poverty, alienation, oppression and foreign occupations. To understand that is to truly tackle the roots of violence. Ignoring it cannot possibly be an option..........


      Wohufff.. too many circles.. running in circles will not help..

    That is what he says  and -
    Quote
    Ramzy Baroud is a PhD scholar in People’s History at the University of Exeter. He is the Managing Editor of Middle East Eye. Baroud is an internationally-syndicated columnist, a media consultant, an author and the founder of PalestineChronicle.com. His latest book is My Father Was a Freedom Fighter: Gaza’s Untold Story (Pluto Press, London)

    .  it is good to analyze such words of well educated Muslim Intellectual who live in west..

    Anyways  this is a good picture to see Suriah DeCoske, 11 year old Muslim girl Swimming happily in a pool


    Elkhart resident Suriah DeCoske, 11, takes a plunge at the City of Palestine pool on Thursday, located at the Steven Bennett Park Aquatic Center at the Palestine YMCA.  and that is published at palestineherald.com

    I wonder how  many of you know where that town  Elkhart is?  I wish  it is in one of those so-called Palestine towns next to Israel 
     

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #761 - July 03, 2014, 08:46 PM

    Palestine. I'm from Poland, my ancesstors lived under the occupancy of (mainly) Germany for almost 200 years in a row, that's why my sympathy towards Palestine. I think muslims are exaggerating when saying jews are doing to palestinians what they nazis did to them. Israelis don't gas them or make experiments on them, they don't put them in death camps where they have to sleep in excrements because of very "popular" there diarrhea etc.
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #762 - July 04, 2014, 03:37 AM

    Neither!!!

    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #763 - July 22, 2014, 01:50 PM

    I have split the posts regarding current events in Gaza into a different thread. You can find it here: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=26888.0

    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #764 - July 22, 2014, 02:19 PM

    .
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #765 - July 23, 2014, 01:32 PM

    two state solution.
    there is no way israeli (mainly the jew) can go anywhere in this world but to stay in that land.
    but the question is, will israel accept the existence of palestine? and respect their right to live EQUALLY with the israeli?
    let alone the gaza controlled by hamas, even in west bank that paranoid country is still building a new residential area for the incoming jews (clearly not for the non-jew palestinian).

    or maybe the idea of one state solution is worth considering..
    perhaps they should name the country with any other name than israel or palestine.
    Ispale sounds ok Cheesy
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #766 - July 23, 2014, 07:22 PM

    Hmmm, I am a bit confused on this issue for many reasons,
    .
    I see how it all started, I don't understand why it is going on for so long. The general population is rooting for Palestine and against Israel, I can see why, but then again I feel that a life is a life whether it is a small amount of Israelis dying and a large amount of Palestinians dying: it's people dying.

    I don't understand how I would pick a side, mainstream media is showing that Israel is bullying Gaza, but a lot of people here present good arguments.

    My question is, is there a day that this will end? Will the boycotts of Israeli products, global protests and social media protest make a difference in this war?

    I see a lot of world leaders and celebrities are being pressured into being anti-israel, will this help stop the war? I know that global interference helped stop apartheid in SA.

    I just don't see why you have to pick a side instead of simply saying: THis needs to end and how can it realistically end.

    Or maybe I am just naive *shrugs*

    I see so many messages saying this is not a religious issue it's a humanity issue: So why is it that people only focused on the deaths in Gaza (not that it doesn't matter)



    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #767 - July 23, 2014, 10:54 PM

    ^It will eventually end, but it will be a slow arduous journey. I suspect that by the end of it, the status quo would have changed - perhaps new demographics, political leaders, regional events etc. - something that would essentially break the cycle that they are in now. Economic pressure is arguably the most effective method to bring about a change in Israeli policies and that's something that's gaining ground. Social media is another important tool, zeca's links above on journalism just goes to show how social media is changing how events like these are perceived in the world, they allow us to bypass the usual filtering that occurs in mainstream media.

    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
     Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
     Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
     Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God." - Epicurus
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #768 - July 24, 2014, 02:53 AM

    Ok you say it will be a slow journey, eventually the social media trend is going to die out,  n businesses will continue as normal eventually,  then what?

    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #769 - July 24, 2014, 04:05 AM

    Pretty much this. Also, given how long it's been since Israel was established, regardless of whether or not establishing a Jewish homeland was legitimate, it is here now and it's not feasible for the country to be wiped out. The Arabs need to come to the table with that in mind and drop this "we refuse to recognize Israel" BS.


    But isnt that what many of us grew up thinking before our apostasy that Israel shouldnt exist that muslims will eventually take back Palestine.  We know this mentality all too well.  Deep down inside we know muslims have a completely different plan not only for Israel but the whole world.    Lets not kid around.   

    I used to be one of those screaming at consulates and embassies and waving a Palestinian head dress but I dont anymore bc I know what it will ultimately mean for someone who is like me now.

    Mecca and Medinah arnt enough of a cash cow for the yearly sheeple gathering, no muslims must also add the city of the flying donkey and fire rockets.   I am sorry for not caring anymore, actually I am not.

    Israel isnt perfect but I give them kudos for fighting off soo many wars from the muslim world.  They're religions are equally delusional but I would take Israel over all muslim countries bc no where in the muslim world could people like us find refuge without having to hide who we are.


    Oh my Christopher Hitchens its a fihrrrrrrrrrrrr
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #770 - July 24, 2014, 04:30 AM

    Supporting Israel would just be illogical. They have no actual right to be in that land, let alone kill the indigenous population. It's irrelevant how Palestine would turn out, using hypothetical. Israel today is extremely racist, look at how they treat black immigrants from East Africa.



    Yes bc the Arabs have been soo great to black people............ Roll Eyes  How did the muslims/arabs get into Africa, Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Byzantium, the Balkans, Spain, South Asia etc?  By being nice to the indigenous population?   Cry me a river. 


    Oh my Christopher Hitchens its a fihrrrrrrrrrrrr
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #771 - July 24, 2014, 09:19 AM

    I believe the Jews have a right to the land, well some of it but i think their overall long term agenda is to wipe out the muslim palestinians by pushing them off the map otherwise they would have come to some kind of viable agreement by now..   I think Israel are being very tactful by creating a situation that makes it appear that the palestinians/hamas are ruining the peace process over and over, which they are, hamas are not being tactul, pretty dumb.. this then gives Israel an excuse to bomb Gaza into oblivion, Israel dont want peace, even if it takes them another 50 years of conflict they will keep up this facade until the palestinians are beaten into submission.. Just looking from one perspective, but as long as palestinians have fundamental and extremist islam as their cause to keep on fighting in the name of Allah they will never back down, ever..  i would love to hear from a christian palestinian perspective, where are they ?
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #772 - July 24, 2014, 01:17 PM

    Only cos of the jews there's trouble in middle east
    It's cos of the jews, that my head full of grease
    Cos of the jews, the problems just keep on coming
    Cos of jews. i can't get the number of any women
    Cos of the jews, your hair full of headlice
    Cos of the jews, your house full of dirty mice
    Cos of the jews your feet aint got no shoes
    Cos of those jews, all the time biased news
    Cant express your views, its cos of the jews !
    Share prices drop? cos of the jews you lose
    But to call me anti-semitic that's just pathetic
    See im just anti-zionist, so it's ok get it?
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #773 - July 24, 2014, 01:35 PM

    Whatever

    (sorry thought that was directed at me Smiley  )
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #774 - August 03, 2014, 11:31 AM

    Quote
    It's very important to see the references he made. I suggest Ilan Pappe's work, it's the best historical overview of the conflict. Israel Shahk's work is interesting, but I think it's marginal, and he doesn't have the credential's Ilan Pappe has.

    Yeez, I'll keep reminding you that until the 80s there was no Islamic resistance in Plaestine, it was mainly marxist/nationalist, it's important to keep this in perspective.


    It's a long story, the PLO started talking to Israel, and reached the agreement in Oslo in 93, George Habash (PFLP) refused, and said it was strategic mistake and Israel is not to be trusted, there was a divide in the line of the PFLP, and Abu Ali Mustafa signed the agreement of Israel and replaced Habsh who set aside, after that the Likud reached the presidency in Israel and started dismantling the armed resistance one by one, the most glaring act of treason was the cold blooded assassination of Abu Ali Mustafa in hit office in Ramallah, which make the PFLP later assainated Israeli facist minister Rahavaam Zeevi, which to the Bet Rima massacre, and the PFLP to practically disappear.
    Hamas knew better, that's why most of the resistance comes from Gaza today, the west bank is too fat, and too tired to resist.


     
    That's a load of crap, the intentions of the zionist movement were clear in the balfour declaration in 1917, and it's then when Palestinians woke up.
    Historians who studied the conflict, even jewish ones, detail the massacres committed by the zionist terrorist organizations.
    No, it's not extremist in both side, its' the Pa;estinian who are living from nakba to nakba, against the strong, supported by media everywhere Israel, who continually eat into the refugee camp in the west bank and Gaza.


    well those three posts are from khalil that speaks about this Palestine/Israeli problems from 1917 to all the way to 1985 or so ., On the way he talks about  zionist terrorist organizations... Those nakba tragedies/massacres ., That Greek Orthodox guy George Habash ..etc..etc..., And Indeed khalil's points need to be addressed in detail..  And this is the right thread to do that..

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #775 - August 07, 2014, 06:44 PM

    http://www.jlp.bham.ac.uk/volumes/59/suleimanhome-art.pdf_ pdf file..

    Quote
    Abstract

    Waqf property (held in charitable trust for religious purposes) has been an important element in Muslim societies, and after a period of decline has emerged as a non-profit ‘third’ sector for minorities and in conditions of legal pluralism. This article, after briefly tracing the history of waqf, examines the large-scale transfer of waqf land in Israel/Palestine to Jewish control since the creation of the state of Israel in 1948, and places that confiscation within a context of postcolonial legal pluralism. The role of successive Absentee Property Laws in this confiscation is related to Ottoman land tenure categories and the Ottoman Land Code, as modified under the British League of Nations Mandate. The special legal status of waqf in the Old City of Jerusalem is discussed, and recent legal disputes over the status of certain mosques and cemeteries are examined as sites of resistance.


    Religion as a Barrier to Compromise in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict_ pdf file..

    Land ownership in Palestine 1880-1948 by Moshe Aumann ..  

    and that pdf file is from this link http://wordfromjerusalem.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/ which has loads information on this problem..

    yap.. for Islam,  whole land of Israel is indeed a  Waqf land... Waqf property ., Well it took that from Judaism itself .. So I say Jews should not cry.. Islam is basically modified Judaism
    . That point Muslims as well Jewish folks must keep in mind

    http://www.iaqsa.com/

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #776 - August 07, 2014, 07:42 PM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aU8juA3pflQ#t=69

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37MFa7ZKQWo

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #777 - August 13, 2014, 01:44 PM

    Demographics of Israel: Jewish & Non-Jewish Population of Israel/Palestine (1517 - Present)

    Quote
    Year.......................Jews.......................Non-Jews.......................Total Population.......................% Jewish
    1517.......................5,000.......................295,000.................................~300,000.................................1.7%
    1882.......................24,000.......................276,000...................................300,000.................................8.0%
    1918.......................60,000.......................600,000...................................3660,000................................8.1%
    1931.......................174,610.......................861,211...................................31,035,821.......................16.9%
    1936.......................384,078.......................982,614...................................31,366,692.......................28.1%
    1946.......................543,000.......................1,267,037..................................3.1,810,037.......................30.0%
    1948.......................716,700.......................156,000...................................3872,700................................82.1%
    1950.......................1,203,000.......................167,100...................................31,370,100.......................87.8%
    1955.......................1,590,500.......................198,600..................................3.1,789,100.......................88.9%
    1960.......................1,911,300.......................239,100.................................3..2,150,400.......................88.9%
    1965.......................2,299,100.......................299,300...................................32,598,400.......................88.5%
    1970.......................2,582,000.......................440,100...................................33,022,100.......................85.5%
    1975.......................2,959,400.......................533,800...................................33,493,200.......................84.7%
    1980.......................3,282,700.......................639,000..................................3.3,921,700.......................83.7%
    1985.......................3,517,200.......................749,000.................................3..4,266,200.......................82.5%
    1990.......................3,946,700.......................875,000...................................34,821,700.......................81.9%
    1995.......................4,522,300.......................1,090,000..................................3.5,612,300.......................80.6%
    2000.......................4,955,400.......................1,413,900.................................3..6,369,300.......................77.8%
    2005.......................5,313,800.......................1,676,900...................................36,990,700.......................76.0%
    2010.......................5,802,900.......................1,892,200.................................3..7,695,100.......................75.4%
    2013.......................6,042,000.......................1,967,000..................................3.8,018,000.......................75.4%
    2014.......................6,102,000.......................2,488,000..................................3.8,132,000.......................75.2%


    well that is an interesting statistics of Israel religious demography  (NOT GAZA & NOT WEST BANK) off course that is Jewish side of the story., but I don't see any reason to doubt those numbers.. 

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #778 - August 13, 2014, 03:23 PM

    well those three posts are from khalil that speaks about this Palestine/Israeli problems from 1917 to all the way to 1985 or so ., On the way he talks about  zionist terrorist organizations... Those nakba tragedies/massacres ., That Greek Orthodox guy George Habash ..etc..etc..., And Indeed khalil's points need to be addressed in detail..  And this is the right thread to do that..


    If we're looking back at history then this documentary about the Israeli leftist group Matzpen (around from the 60s to the 80s) is interesting and helps explain how Palestine solidarity activism got going here, along maybe with some of its faults:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfcFno2pqJg
    A long interview with Matzpen co-founder Akiva Orr:
    http://vimeo.com/19444809
    Akiva Orr's political philosophy, the short version:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FFuf7_J4-s
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #779 - August 15, 2014, 09:18 AM

    Quote

    And coming back to recent   times..

    Obama Seeks Palestine State on 1967 Borders_May 19 2011

    Netanyahu says No Return to 1967 Borders





    UNSCOP (3 September 1947) and UN Ad Hoc Committee (25 November 1947) partition plans. The UN Ad Hoc committee proposal was voted on in the resolution. Date    29 November, 1947



    Well you can see progress of Palestinian state since the birth of Israel.,   That is what Islam, Islamism, Islamic Arab kings ., Islamic preachers, Islamic leaders,  dictators of Muslim lands and Palestinian leadership  did  to People of  Palestine..

    UN at that time and even now is BUNCH OF BUFFOONS  that don't understand religions and Islam in particular..

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
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