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 Poll

  • Question: Which one (if any) are you more inclined to side with? (Give reasons)
  • Israel - 49 (30.1%)
  • Palestine - 114 (69.9%)
  • Total Voters: 163

 Topic: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?

 (Read 125762 times)
  • Previous page 1 23 4 ... 38 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #30 - May 20, 2011, 03:12 PM

    Quote from: Al-Ma`arri
    What i am?

    I support Edward Saids ideas/views AND Martin Bubers ideas/views


    Edward Said was a wretched dhimmi driven by the utterly vain hope that the Arab Muslims would accept the Arab Christians as equal "fellow Arabs" in some kind of ecumenical "united Arab front" against Israel and the "orientalist imperialist" "west". Said's pathetic dhimmi efforts to curry a pat on the head for himself and his fellow Arab Christians by flattering Muslims' unwarranted sense of historical victimhood and parroting the standard Islamic anti-western, anti-Israel rhetoric have however proved fruitless and the Arab Christians continue to be regarded as very much "THE OTHER" by those by whom they pathetically long to be accepted as equals but by whom they instead get the shit repeatedly kicked out of them.

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #31 - May 20, 2011, 03:15 PM

    good .. good So in democracy   Pro Israel or Pro Palestine voting in the tread says
    Quote
    Israel     - 6 (37.5%)
    Palestine    - 10 (62.5%)

       
    Well I abstained from voting.,

    I know juice lose .. they are looser from the dawn of religions.. But I am happy the voting pattern IN CEMB does not represent  Jewish , Muslim Demography  12 million verses 1.5 billion .,

    In that  16 votes .,   6 to 10 is winner .. I WIN YOU GUYS LOOSE.. Grin Grin

    Now I asked simple question to whyme89 on his words  
    Israel occupied my country,killed my people,destroyed their homes,made them into refugees,and violated their human rights. In short,I hate Israel because it's a terrorist and genocidal state.

    the question was about that genocidal nature
    Quote

    I would appreciate any links that puts some number on the  number of Palestinians died due to this Israeli genocide since 1946...

    of the Israeli state and its rulers.

    So how many Palestinians died since 1946 in this genocidal war on Palestinians by juice??
     
    I am still looking for an answer..  a jew pouring juice to me sent this information

    Quote
    In the War of Independance of 1948,palestinian arabs obeyed the instructions of the arab leaders and got out so that the arab armies could get in.So,there were practically no losses among the palestinian arabs.
    In the First Intifada , an estimated 1,300 Palestinians were killed.
    In the Intifada of AlAqsa,another 5500.
    In the strike on Gaza in December,another 1200.
    In various clashes since 1948...Nobody knows the exact number.So,just add another 10000.
    All in all,18000 arabs killed in 40 years.
    450 a year.
    Don`t forget to cry about "genocide",Sara.

    Your definition of the genocide is absolutely right,miss Sara.Now,what i would like you to explain is how the "poor genocided palestinians"
    whom these cruel Israelis,according to you, shot like rabbits "in groups and individually",and on whom they,according to you",inflicted serious bodily harm",managed to grow in number 15 times in just 60 years,from hardly 200 thousands in 1948 to almost 3 millions in 2008.
    Any explanation?




    and This is from the supporter of  Palestinians

    Quote
    During 1948 alone - 5000+ Palestinians killed.

    War of Attrition - 2500 Palestinians killed.

    Yom Kippur War - 1000 Palestinians killed.

    Lebanese Civil War - 75 000 Palestinians killed by Israel + Lebanese people.

    2000-2005 - 5 000 Palestinians killed.

    Gaza War - 1 500 Palestinians killed.

    The First Intifida - 3 000 Palestinians killed.

    There had been incidents of small massacres not well documented, if added all together, they will add up to thousands.

    Hebron Massacre 1994 - 60 Palestinians dead in Mosque.

    Church of Nativity - 20 Christians killed by Israeli fire, including 2 Priests and 3 Deacons.

    Al-Aqsa massacre 2000 - 35 Palestinians killed

    Jenin 2002 - 53 Palestinians killed.

    Many, many more...

    Of course, blockades had happened in the past, the most recent one.

    Gaza - 300 Palestinians killed

    This is not to mention the number of Jerusalemites that died. And there had been three Gaza massacres in the past. Also remember what happened to Jenin and Nablus. The deaths of wall protesters, Palestinians that died in the jails, the assassinations, the number is BIG.

    If you are going to count as well the number of Jordanians, Egyptians, Syrians, Lebanese, and other Arabs that died, that would be a huge number as well.

    Some people think a "genocide" is not about the number or that 18 000 is not a genocide. I think it is sad that you think that. Genocide is the mentality and the will. It's the intent.


    Any more help on that subject from friends??

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #32 - May 20, 2011, 03:18 PM

    I wont support an islamic palestine and nor do i think had the jews not been there it would be a state called palestine. the arabs would have carved it for themselves. but screw israel. no justice no peace. israel can stop the construction of settlements , the destruction of Palestinian homes but they dont. what do they expect in return ? are they more civilized ? then why dont they act like it ?

    speaks for it self:
    (Clicky for piccy!)


    Canex. "Da Palistinyuns" surely "lost land" due to their conniving with successive attacks by Arab countries on the tiny Jewish state. How much "land" do you think the evil JOOs would now have if any of these Arab military adventures had not ended in humiliating defeat by the aggressors?

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #33 - May 20, 2011, 03:23 PM



    look at that map., Look at Islam and look at juice....That is a pathetic map..
    That is the tiny land people are fighting for.. ,
     It is NOT LAND FIGHT.. It is the fight with  Islam.. specially political Islam  that says drink juice...kill kill juice..

    Remove Islam from the minds of Palestinians, erase Muhammad and his political party from middle east Politics., I will solve that problem in months if not weeks

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #34 - May 20, 2011, 03:30 PM

    I support Israel because of many reasons, and so I selected it in the poll, although my preference would be a two-state solution because I see no other way really...

    Some things to point out: A survey found:

    77% of Israeli Arabs would rather live in Israel than in any other country in the world, or that,
    73% of the Jews and 94% of the Arabs want Israel to "be a society in which Arab and Jewish citizens have mutual respect and equal opportunities.
    According to the poll, 68% of Jewish citizens support teaching conversational Arabic in Jewish schools to help bring Arab and Jewish citizens together.

    I believe there is a big difference between Israeli government policy, and everyday Israeli citizens...

    This tells me that whilst I believe Israeli foreign policy is regrettable but in some cases expectable given the circumstances by which Israel is in, I do believe that the majority of people in Israel have a much more conscious understanding of a pluralistic society, of secularism, of democracy, of womens rights, of gay rights, of free speech, of freedom of and from religion, and much more. It is these qualities  that lend my support to the Israeli people.

    Regardless of Israeli and the Jewish communities contribution to the world (its disproportionate contribution), they've been on the wrong end of the boot for hundreds of years which is why I think it is expected that Israeli foreign policy is as controversial as it is, and why I understand that when the nations around it harbour terrorist organisations and psychotic theocrats bent on its destruction, Israel may in fact give a damn about protecting its own citizens.

    (Clicky for piccy!) (Clicky for piccy!)
    (Clicky for piccy!)(Clicky for piccy!)

    Whilst I think Israel has blood on its hands due to its foreign policy, and they could be perhaps more diplomatic in their approach to certain things... as a gay, freedom-loving, secularist, atheist, humanist and whatever else... there is only one country in the Middle East that I would ever live in... Israel. Smiley

    I do believe, however, that a two-state solution is perhaps the best way because I don't see how else you can fix something like this. And as sad as it seems, a two-state solution would no doubt show why Israel has been a success story, lending its importance to science, academics, democracy, individual liberty... over religion. If Palestine existed as a country, it would no doubt have the exact same problems as any other theocratic nation,


    You and HighOctane should get together and have little right-wing imperialist chickenhawk babies. Nice chart from the ADL, the same organization that accuses anyone who makes even mild criticism of Israel's treatment of the Palestinians of being raving Anti-Semites.

    Quote
    only those criticising Israel probably wouldn't bother criticising the human rights abuses going on in any other country.


    What are you, an idiot? Plenty of prominent critics of Israel also criticize human rights abuses in other countries. And shit-- even on this very fucking forum those who criticize Israel also criticize other countries in the Middle East and throughout the world. How can you possibly make such an inaccurate and ignorant statement while plainly contradictory evidence is staring you in the face? Answer: you're a deluded fuckin imperialist bigot who has willingly gulped down the neocon Kool-Aid.

    Also you like shitty subs and shitty music.

    "In battle, the well-honed spork is more dangerous than the mightiest sword" -- Sun Tzu
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #35 - May 20, 2011, 03:50 PM

      Israelis have been increasing heartless because of the condition in which they live. Can't say I blame them. So yeah I sympathize with Israel begrudging... it's like choosing the lesser of two evils.

    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #36 - May 20, 2011, 03:55 PM

    None of us could possibly hate you as much as you hate yourself, your wavy hair, your brown skin, your family's national origin, and the religion of the parents you still can't stand up to, Uncle Tariq. Pip, pip, cheerio, Queen and Country! Long live the imperial boot of Britain, the US and Israel on the necks of the ignorant, savage muzzies and whoever else who's poor and not white Europeans who might get in our glorious empire's way-- am I a real Englishman now, guys? Please?

    Spineless, self-hating, weak, bloodthirsty, oppression-loving chickenhawk. And the chickenhawk is by far the lowest form of political animal.




    Little Girl: Mr White, why won't the Jews let the Palestinians have their own country? Why do they keep invadin' them an' knockin' down their houses? Ain't there room fur ev'ry one to have a nice house with a garden like me an' you an' daddy? Why can't those Jews be happy with what they've got?

    Mr White: Well Missy Mizz....Dem Jews....Deys is racists, imperalistizers an' PHOBES! Dey don't want da cullud folk to progressify none so dey goes ta his cuntry an' steals his land and drags him off across da wiiiide blue ocean ta pick cotton f'r nothin'.



    Little Girl: Mr Black, is what Mr White said about the Jews true?

    Mr Black: I'm afraid it is sweetie. You see, there are people in this world who harbor a violent and irrational antagonism to the very idea of negroes like Mr White engaging in sexual intercourse with caucasian women, when nothing could be more natural and beautiful. This "phobia" as Mr White so eloquently puts it is due to a deep-seated fear in the sufferer that he does not, so to speak, "measure up" to the black man and that he will be found wanting by any woman who has had the privilege to have engaged in coitus with one or more of our ebony brothers.

    To be continued....

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #37 - May 20, 2011, 04:10 PM

    ^ LOL

    Is that a sense of humour blooming there DH? Impressive. Less time mouthing off about nuking the towelheads and more time keyboarding gems like that.
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #38 - May 20, 2011, 04:17 PM

    WOW

    I really don't know what to write right now.So many stuff to reply to. I've been searching for good links and was planning a reply,but after reading more comments I got depressed. I'll take a break and come back later.
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #39 - May 20, 2011, 04:21 PM

     Israelis have been increasing heartless because of the condition in which they live.


    Let's put this "condition" in which the Israelis are living in perspective:

    *Between 2000 and 2005, 731 Israeli civilians were killed in the Second Intifada. In the city where I live we get about 400 murders each year.

    *During this same time frame, 4,907 Palestinians were killed by the Israelis.

    *The Israelis live in a "condition" with their own country, their land not in immediate danger of being taken away from them, they are relatively secure from violent acts, they live in wealth with full civil rights.

    *In the meantime, the Palestinians' "condition" is one of having no country of their own, in constant danger of having their land seized or being evicted from their homes, living under an oppressive, brutal and humiliating foreign military occupation for several decades, treated as second-class citizens in their own land, and living in poverty and squalor.

    Cry me a fuckin river for the poor put-upon Israelis, Sakura02.

    Quote
    Can't say I blame them. So yeah I sympathize with Israel begrudging... it's like choosing the lesser of two evils.


    So your choice of the lesser of two evils is not siding with the people with the boot on their necks, but rather siding with the people who have the boots on the other group's necks. Interesting moral reasoning you have there.

    "In battle, the well-honed spork is more dangerous than the mightiest sword" -- Sun Tzu
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #40 - May 20, 2011, 05:43 PM

    no third option on this pole?   Cheesy

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #41 - May 20, 2011, 05:45 PM

     bunny errrr poll lol

    I stand with Hassan on this one.

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #42 - May 20, 2011, 09:12 PM

    I'm impressed, 37.5% for Israel. Good job.  Afro
    I believe with all due respect, there are many who cannot see the conflict from an unbiased view, mostly due to emotional attachment.
    I once hated Jews, but managed to detach myself from it. Of course, there is obvious emotion on this very thread that highlights this over what should be more important in our reality: reason!

    Btw: Queers for Palestine. Reality check, you'd have to be in Israel to be a Queer for Palestine!
    Quote
    No single group better exemplifies the cognitive dissonance on display at these rallies than Queers for Palestine, also known as QUIT -- Queers Undermining Israeli Terror. What is left to say about the fundamental self-contradicting nature of such a group?

    LINK

    No joke: here is the website: http://www.quitpalestine.org/

    Quote
    A number of gay Palestinian men are risking their lives to cross the border into Israel, claiming they feel safer among Israelis than their own people. -

    LINK


    Gotta love the human psychological aspects this topics reveals about human minds. Seriously, it is super interesting no?
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #43 - May 20, 2011, 09:31 PM

    I'm impressed, 37.5% for Israel. Good job.  Afro
    I believe with all due respect, there are many who cannot see the conflict from an unbiased view, mostly due to emotional attachment.
    I once hated Jews, but managed to detach myself from it. Of course, there is obvious emotion on this very thread that highlights this over what should be more important in our reality: reason!


    Fuck Israel and Fuck Palestine! How's that for emotion?

    Oh and no, I don't hate Jews or Arabs. Totally different matter - but thanks for conflating it with whether you support Israel or Palestine.

    Sorry but most of what you say on this subject - and quite a few others - is bullshit.

    But you're using 'reason' so you're right of course.
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #44 - May 20, 2011, 09:43 PM

    I wanna learn reason. But I just am siding with Palestinians because... because I hate jews, obviously.  Cry What's the matter with me? Too much cogdis? Not enough memeplexes? Help me out here.
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #45 - May 20, 2011, 10:58 PM

      Israelis have been increasing heartless because of the condition in which they live. Can't say I blame them. So yeah I sympathize with Israel begrudging... it's like choosing the lesser of two evils.


    What condition? Please explain.
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #46 - May 20, 2011, 11:04 PM

    The Jews shouldn't have to go anywhere. A single democratic secular state for both Palestinians and Jews (and anybody else who lives there) is the answer.


     Afro

    The problem is because the arabs are the majority, democracy isn't really what the Israelis want bcoz it means their racist policy will come to an end.
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #47 - May 21, 2011, 12:43 AM

    I'm impressed, 37.5% for Israel. Good job.  Afro
    I believe with all due respect, there are many who cannot see the conflict from an unbiased view, mostly due to emotional attachment.
    I once hated Jews, but managed to detach myself from it. Of course, there is obvious emotion on this very thread that highlights this over what should be more important in our reality: reason!

    Btw: Queers for Palestine. Reality check, you'd have to be in Israel to be a Queer for Palestine!LINK

    No joke: here is the website: http://www.quitpalestine.org/
    LINK


    Gotta love the human psychological aspects this topics reveals about human minds. Seriously, it is super interesting no?


    Shut the fuck up you self-hating cowardly chickenhawk authoritarian prick.

    "In battle, the well-honed spork is more dangerous than the mightiest sword" -- Sun Tzu
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #48 - May 21, 2011, 01:35 AM

    Dividing man between nations is a ridiculous idea in the first place. Having said that, and taking into consideration how ingrained such a way of life is for most people and how difficult it would be to transcend petty borders, I can't see how anyone can argue with Kenan's solution.

    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #49 - May 21, 2011, 02:37 AM

    What are you, an idiot? Plenty of prominent critics of Israel also criticize human rights abuses in other countries. And shit-- even on this very fucking forum those who criticize Israel also criticize other countries in the Middle East and throughout the world. How can you possibly make such an inaccurate and ignorant statement while plainly contradictory evidence is staring you in the face? Answer: you're a deluded fuckin imperialist bigot who has willingly gulped down the neocon Kool-Aid.

    Also you like shitty subs and shitty music.


    Actually, it was bad wording on my part because I forgot to add one word, "many of those".

    I was not specifically talking about people here as I know people here are a bit more rational, I'm talking about the typical ultra-Lefties that I've encountered when I used to be more along those lines.

    People such as these band of idiots in this video here. The London School of Economics where students protested against Israel and then on the same day welcomed to a lecture with clapping hands and open arms people like the murderess Libyan dictator Qaddafi and his son Saif al Islam as well as Turkish representatives - even though Turkey is unlawfully occupying north Cyprus, violently oppress the Kurds and Kurdish self-identity and deny the proven Armenian holocaust.

    I think Turkey is a success story compared to other Islamic countries, and I love Turkey's love of secularism and democracy, however it is this blunt hypocrisy that makes me cringe. Using one hand to call for justice, and another hand to shake hands with murderous theocrats, dictators and corrupt politicians.

    Finally, I did say that I supported a two-state solution. However, the point of this topic was to pick one or the other and for that reason I picked Israel and stated why I support Israel, this doesn't mean I don't have sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians, and I do wish that something can happen in which both sides are satisfied, but for now I will support the democratic, secular state that has a diverse political landscape with pro-Zionist, anti-Zionist, secular and Arab political parties, a state that defends and protects the rights of gays and women, and that encourages free speech and freedom of religion. This is a no-brainer to me.
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #50 - May 21, 2011, 02:50 AM

    Some useful links on the problem... demo graphical, geopoltical and religious problems of middle east..

    http://www.mideastweb.org/

    The Population of Palestine Prior to 1948

    The Roots of Conflict in the Middle East, 1900-1948  ..Palestinian side

    List of conflicts in the Middle East

    List of articles from both sides

    Israel and Palestine: Middle East Historical and Peace Process Source Documents

    Quote
    Zionism Explained & Exposed  _ Some Major Palestinian and Pro-Palestinian Activist Organizations links"


    http://palsolidarity.org/

    http://www.al-awda.org/

    http://www.adc.org/

    more links at   http://zionismexplained.org/home/propo.html 



    http://www.mecaforpeace.org/  (Pathetic use of children for propaganda...)
     

    with best
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #51 - May 21, 2011, 03:23 AM

    Problems and miseries of Palestinians increased by its leaders "THE ISLAMIC LEADERS OF PALESTINE"

    1). Mohammad Amin al-Husayni


    Born    1895 or 1897 Sanjak of Jerusalem (Ottoman Syria)  and Died    July 4, 1974(1974-07-04) (aged 79) Beirut, Lebanon

    Quote
    Mr. Mohammad Amin al-Husayni  and his German connection .. during Holocaust ..

    (Clicky for piccy!)
    Amin Al Husseini: President of World Islamic Congress 1931.


    (Clicky for piccy!)

    Mr. Mohammad Amin al-Husayni  (Yasser Arafat's father's brother) and Adolf Hitler confer in Berlin, November 21, 1941

    (Clicky for piccy!)

    Palestinian leader Haj Amin al Husseini inspecting a Muslim SS parade in 1944.

    (Clicky for piccy!)
    Husseini  in Oberlin with German war leaders..



    Quote
    Husayni intervened on May 13, 1943, with the German Foreign Office to block possible transfers of Jews from Bulgaria, Hungary and Romania, after reports reached him that 4000 Jewish children accompanied by 500 adults had managed to reach Palestine. He asked that the Foreign Minister "to do his utmost" to block all such proposals and this request was complied with.[142] A year later, on the 25 July 1944, he wrote to the Hungarian foreign minister to register his objection to the release of certificates for 900 Jewish children and 100 adults for transfer from Hungary, fearing they might end up in Palestine. He suggested that if such transfers of population were deemed necessary, then:-



    with best
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #52 - May 21, 2011, 06:16 AM

    Someone needs to give me history lesson here. How the hell did the conflict first start? and I'm not talking about when the land was divided and which country was to blame, I'm talking about who drew the first sword in retaliation or conquest, that made things escalate to where they are.

    Because according to one Muslim I spoke with online, the Muslims allowed the Jews to stay there at first as guests??. Then the Jews back stabbed them and took their land from under their noses.

    Regardless of which side you choose, again why can't both sides, just STFU and live together. Israelies need to stop being greedy selfish assholes, and Palestinians need to get off their high horse and work with other non Muslims to build a stable secure country. This way everyone's kids get to play together without fear or hate.

    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #53 - May 21, 2011, 09:52 AM

    * Testimonies of Israeli Soldiers Refusing to serve in the Occupation

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_K480j5ozy0&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY-rn2UJNFg&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37MFa7ZKQWo


    * Facts from B'Tselem: The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territorries. www.btselem.org

    1) Use of Firearms: http://www.btselem.org/English/Firearms/
    Quote
    From the beginning of the second intifada, on 29 September 2000, until 31 December 2010, Israeli security forces killed 4,927 Palestinians in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, including 970 minors (under the age of 18). At least 2,227 of those killed did not participate in hostilities; 239 were objects of targeted killing. Thousands more were injured. These figures do not include the Palestinian casualties in Operation Cast Lead, a major military attack Israel launched on the Gaza Strip from 27 December 2008 to 18 January 2009.

    The harm to the civilian population in Gaza during Operation Cast Lead was immense: 1,389 Palestinians were killed, 758 of whom were not participating in hostilities (including 318 minors). Over 5,300 Palestinians were injured, more than 350 of them seriously.
    In 2010, Israeli security forces killed 80 Palestinians: 12 in the West Bank and 68 in the Gaza Strip (nine were minors, 2 in the West Bank and 7 in the Gaza Strip). Twenty-five of those killed were not taking part in hostilities, 49 were taking part in hostilities, and in four cases, B'Tselem does not know if the person killed was taking part in hostilities. Two of the Palestinians killed in the Gaza Strip were the object of a targeted killing. In the West Bank, the number was lower than in previous years: 21 Palestinians were killed there by Israeli security forces in 2009, 45 in 2008, and 84 in 2007.


    2) Beatings and Abuse: http://www.btselem.org/english/Beating_and_Abuse/
    Quote
    Violence against Palestinians by Israeli security forces is not new; it has accompanied the occupation for many years. With the outbreak of the al-Aqsa intifada, however, a significant increase in the number of beatings and instances of abuse has occurred, in part because of increased friction between Palestinians and Israeli security forces. According to many testimonies given to B'Tselem and other human rights organizations, the security forces use violence, at times gross violence, against Palestinians unnecessarily and without justification.


    3) Restrictions of Movement: http://www.btselem.org/english/Freedom_of_Movement/
    Quote
    Israel uses a number of means to restrict Palestinian movement in the West Bank . These means, which are part of a single, coordinated control mechanism, which Israel adjusts to its needs, include the following: permanent and temporary checkpoints, physical obstructions, the Separation Barrier, forbidden roads or roads with restrictions on Palestinian use, and the movement-permit regime. By implementing these means, Israel has split the area into six geographical areas: North, Center, South, the Jordan Valley and northern Dead Sea, the enclaves resulting from the Separation Barrier, and East Jerusalem, an integral part of the West Bank. Movement between the sections and within each section has become, in recent years, hard, slow, and complicated. Also, Israel almost completely forbids the movement of Palestinians between the West Bank and the Gaza Strip and impedes Palestinians from entering Israel and from going abroad.


    4) Illegal Settlements: http://www.btselem.org/english/Settlements/
    Quote
    Under this regime, hundreds of thousands of dunams of land populated by Palestinians have been stolen. This land has been used to establish dozens of settlements and to populate them with hundreds of thousands of Israeli citizens. As a rule, Israel prevents Palestinians from entering these lands and using them. The existence of the settlements brings with it the violation of many human rights of Palestinians, including the right of property, the right to equality, the right to a suitable standard of living, and the right to freedom of movement. The extreme change that Israel has made in the map of the West Bank prevents any real possibility to establish an independent, viable Palestinian state in the framework of exercising the right to self-determination.
    The settlers, on the other hand, benefit from all rights given to citizens of Israel who live inside the Green Line, and in some instances, even additional rights. The great effort Israel has expended in the settlement enterprise - financially, legally, and bureaucratically - has turned the settlements into civilian enclaves within an area under military rule and has given the settlers a preferred status. To perpetuate this unlawful situation, Israel has continuously violated the Palestinians' human rights.


    5) The Separation Barrier: http://www.btselem.org/english/Separation_Barrier/
    Quote
    The construction of the barrier has brought new restrictions on movement for Palestinians living near the Barrier's route, in addition to the widespread restrictions that have been in place since the outbreak of the current intifada. Thousands of Palestinians have difficulty going to their fields and marketing their produce in other areas of the West Bank. The areas west of the Barrier are one of the most fertile areas in the West Bank, and the agriculture there generates, according to the World Bank, 8 percent of Palestinian agricultural production. The harm to the farming sector prevents Palestinian farmers from gaining additional income and prevents an increase in the number of Palestinians working in agriculture, which is a major sector of the Palestinian economy.
    The restrictions on freedom of movement also impair access of rural Palestinians to hospitals in nearby towns, harm the educational system since many schools, primarily in rural areas, are dependent on teachers who live outside the community, and hamper family and social ties.


    6) East Jerusalem: http://www.btselem.org/english/Jerusalem/
    Quote
    Since East Jerusalem was annexed in 1967, the government of Israel's primary goal in Jerusalem has been to create a demographic and geographic situation that will thwart any future attempt to challenge Israeli sovereignty over the city. To achieve this goal, the government has been taking actions to increase the number of Jews, and reduce the number of Palestinians, living in the city.
    At the end of 2008, the population of Jerusalem stood at 763,600: 495,000 Jews and others (64.8 percent) and 268,600 Palestinians (35.2 percent). About 59.6% percent of the residents live on land that was annexed in 1967 (41 percent of whom are Jews, and 59 percent Palestinians). With the Palestinians having a higher growth rate than the Jews, Israel has used various methods to achieve its goal :
    •   Physically isolating East Jerusalem from the rest of the West Bank, in part by building the separation barrier;
    •   Discriminating in land expropriation, planning, and building, and demolition of houses;
    •   Revoking residency and social benefits of Palestinians who stay abroad for at least seven years, or who are unable to prove that their center of life is in Jerusalem;
    •   Unfairly dividing the budget between the two parts of the city, with harmful effects on infrastructure and services in East Jerusalem.


    7) Demolition of Houses:
    Demolition of houses 1987-1998: Total=2,276
    Demolition of houses and other structures in the West Bank, 1999-2004: Total=1,049
    Demolition of houses 2006-2010: Total=275 houses and 743 left homeless

    http://www.btselem.org/english/Planning_and_Building/Statistics.asp

    Accountability: http://www.btselem.org/english/Accountability/
    Quote
    One of the primary sources for the obligation to investigate serious violations of human rights is international criminal law. This body of law defines such infringements as international crimes and imposes criminal liability on the persons responsible for their commission. These infringements generally belong to one of three categories, depending on the circumstances of the case and intention of the person responsible: genocide, crimes against humanity, and war crimes. The latter is especially relevant in Israel 's case inasmuch as it includes the serious violation of human rights of persons living in occupied territory - willful killing, torture, unlawful deportation, and extensive destruction of property - as well as intentional attacks against civilian objects or intentionally launching an attack knowing that it will cause disproportionate injury and damage to civilians.


    * Some of Israel's Violations of Human Rights: http://www.israellawresourcecenter.org/internationallaw/studyguides/sgil3.htm

    Quote
    1. ILLEGAL ACQUISITION OF LAND BY FORCE

    Quote
    2. FORBIDDING CIVILIANS THE RIGHT TO RETURN TO THEIR HOMES FOLLOWING THE END OF ARMED CONFLICT

    Quote
    3. ILLEGAL POPULATION TRANSFER

    Quote
    5. DESTRUCTION OF HOLY PLACES, AND INTERFERING WITH MINISTERS OF RELIGION PERFORMING THEIR RELIGIOUS DUTIES

    Quote
    7. ILLEGAL PRACTICE OF COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT

    Quote
    12. PRACTICE OF RACISM

    Quote
    8. ILLEGAL MILITARY OCCUPATION: The current Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories is illegal. Military actions and occupations are considered legal only if they are based on self-defense (as Israel claims) or are designed to benefit the native population of the occupied areas, but it is now clear that Israel's occupation is illegal because Israeli implementation of it clearly is about:
    •   (1) Acquisition of land into Israel by force, and
    •   (2) Economic exploitation of the occupied areas via building up de facto Annexation on occupied lands --
    o   (A) Extensive modification of local laws, and
    o   (B) Building Israeli settlements on occupied lands (illegal population transfer),
    o   (C) Building separation barrier not on border but through Palestinian communities displacing over 200,000 Palestinian civilians separating them from their families, work, schools, hospitals, etc.
    •   (3) Inhumane suppression of rebellion is implemented through --
    o   (A) Practice of Collective Punishment, and
    o   (B) Extensive violations of Palestinian Human Rights.


    Quote
    9. VIOLATIONS OF RIGHT TO SELF-DETERMINATION: Israel significantly violates the inalienable rights of self-determination of the Palestinian people (when it expropriated significant amounts of Palestinian land from Palestinians to build Israeli settlements, separation barriers, highways, and other structures which benefit Israeli citizens and businesses, but which also severely interfere with Palestinians' ability to work and do business, go to school, access medical facilities, and visit with members of their own families)

    Quote
    15. GENOCIDE: Although numbers of massacres and other lethal methodologies have been documented throughout the history of the Zionists and the State of Israel, evidence suggests that the overall intention of the Zionists and the government of Israel was to drive the Palestinian Arab people out of the area rather than to destroy them as is required by the definition of Genocide. On the other hand, there is some evidence that Israel intended to destroy the society and culture and economy of those Arabs that refused to leave, which under the modern definition, this would be considered to be Genocide.



    * I recommend this documentary. It's one hour and a half,but it's going to help you understand the situation more.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWpOqAitZLs


  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #54 - May 21, 2011, 10:50 AM

    Quote from: Mount A Bison
    Less time mouthing off about nuking the towelheads


    MaB, will you please cease your cynical and opportunist attempts to wheedle your way into the underwear of all those here in whose good books I am not by attributing to me expressions like "nuke" "towelheads" that I have not once either implicitly or explicitly used or advocated?

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #55 - May 21, 2011, 12:32 PM

    * Testimonies of Israeli Soldiers Refusing to serve in the Occupation

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_K480j5ozy0&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY-rn2UJNFg&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37MFa7ZKQWo


    * Facts from B'Tselem: The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territorries. www.btselem.org

    1) Use of Firearms: http://www.btselem.org/English/Firearms/
    2) Beatings and Abuse: http://www.btselem.org/english/Beating_and_Abuse/
    3) Restrictions of Movement: http://www.btselem.org/english/Freedom_of_Movement/
    4) Illegal Settlements: http://www.btselem.org/english/Settlements/
    5) The Separation Barrier: http://www.btselem.org/english/Separation_Barrier/
    6) East Jerusalem: http://www.btselem.org/english/Jerusalem/
    7) Demolition of Houses:
    Demolition of houses 1987-1998: Total=2,276
    Demolition of houses and other structures in the West Bank, 1999-2004: Total=1,049
    Demolition of houses 2006-2010: Total=275 houses and 743 left homeless

    http://www.btselem.org/english/Planning_and_Building/Statistics.asp

    Accountability: http://www.btselem.org/english/Accountability/
    * Some of Israel's Violations of Human Rights: http://www.israellawresourcecenter.org/internationallaw/studyguides/sgil3.htm


    * I recommend this documentary. It's one hour and a half,but it's going to help you understand the situation more.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWpOqAitZLs

    THAT IS A FANTASTIC POST from whyme89 ., Please add more of such videos dear whyme89. And we should contrast those videos with the videos of Islamic heroes + Leaders of Islamic countries on this problem. Offocusre we can lace it with hadith and Quran.

    That clearly shows to the readers  the difference in  the mind sets and approach of   Hereros Islam and the Juice.. sweet sweet juice to this silly RELIGIOUS PROBLEM NOT  LAND PROBLEM.

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #56 - May 21, 2011, 12:46 PM

    Let me add to that wonderful  whyme89  post this information on some people who support/supported solving the Palestinian problem.

    Juliano Mer-Khamis:  Juliano Mer-Khamis ( ‎29 May 1958 – 4 April 2011)   was an Israeli actor, director, filmmaker and political activist of Jewish and Christian Arab parentage.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvnbJj_hQMc

    That is the video of Juliano Mer-Khamis please watch his video/movies
    Quote
    Mer-Khamis's first film, The Little Drummer Girl, was an American thriller from 1984 directed by George Roy Hill and starring Diane Keaton, which dealt with the Israeli-Arab conflict. He starred in Avi Nesher's film, Za'am V'Tehilah (1985). Later he appeared in such Israeli films as 51 Bar (1985), Wedding in Galilee (1987), Tel Aviv Stories (1992), Zohar (1993), Under the Domim Tree (1994), and Overture 1812 (1997). He appeared in several films by Amos Gitai: Kedma, Esther (1986) and Kippur (2000).[9]

    In 2002, Mer-Khamis was nominated for the Ophir award for Best Actor for his role in Kedma.[10] One of the last films in which he appeared was the Palestinian film Salt of this Sea (2008), which was nominated for an Academy Award for Best Foreign Language Film.

    He performed on stage with Beit Lessin Theater and Habima Theatre. In 2003, he produced and directed his first documentary film, Arna's Children, together with Danniel Danniel. The film is about his mother's work to establish a children's theatre group in Jenin during the 1980s. Seven years after the death of his mother, and following the battle in Jenin in 2002, Mer-Khamis returned to Jenin to meet and interview the children who participated in the theater, and found out that some became militants and were killed.


    and and  On 4 April 2011 he was murdered BY HEROS OF ISLAM from Palestine..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lIJ3y-dz14
     
     On 4 April 2011, he was assassinated by a masked gunman in the Palestinian city of Jenin, where he established the Freedom Theater.

    Allahhh hoooooo akbaaaaar... kill juice.. kill juice..

    FUCKING SHIT...

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #57 - May 21, 2011, 12:47 PM

    This:
    *In the meantime, the Palestinians' "condition" is one of having no country of their own, in constant danger of having their land seized or being evicted from their homes, living under an oppressive, brutal and humiliating foreign military occupation for several decades, treated as second-class citizens in their own land, and living in poverty and squalor.

    Made me realize that, ironically, the same concept of "land ownership" is what makes Europeans feel entitled to tell immigrants to GTFO.
    Which I assume you (and most pro-Palestine people) usually oppose.

    The other way around is also true: a lot of European right-wingers claim land-ownership on Europe and feel entitled to tell immigrants to GTFO, but at the same time they like to side with the Israelis who, basically, immigrated in mass in "somebody else's land" and eventually took it over ^_^

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #58 - May 21, 2011, 01:01 PM

    Another great guy  pro-Palestinian activist Vittorio Arrigoni., Let us read a bit of him..


    Arrigoni with the children of Palestine..

    He was a very Hardcore international supporter of Palestinians cause., In fact he so involved in that cause some right wing Jewish supporters considered him as racist and antisemitic.    let us watch him

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyNyjMTWeS8

    what happened to him???

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeU-9UxjF3k

    WHO DID IT???

    fucking shitt......

    Do not let silence become your legacy  
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #59 - May 21, 2011, 01:11 PM

    AFAIK, most Palestinians there got really pissed at those extremist who executed Arrigoni.
    In fact they ended up dead or something.

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
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