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Theme Changer

 Poll

  • Question: Which one (if any) are you more inclined to side with? (Give reasons)
  • Israel - 49 (30.1%)
  • Palestine - 114 (69.9%)
  • Total Voters: 163

 Topic: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?

 (Read 155064 times)
  • Previous page 1 ... 34 35 3637 38 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #1050 - June 08, 2016, 09:26 PM

    But in the territory that is effectively under the control of Israel the number is closer to 50%. Talking about 'Israel' as if East Jerusalem, the West Bank, the Golan Heights and Gaza don't belong to
    it is a bit like talking about apartheid South Africa as if it didn't include Kwa Zulu and Bophutatswana. In fact apartheid era South African politicians sometimes talked this way but nobody took them very seriously outside the country.

    The game in south Africa is/was different from the game in Israel., if it was same game  and  If religion is not the name of the game  A Palestinian  could become president of Israel., But when you have a religious scriptures that hate others and other religious followers and when faith heads and baboons of Islam start preaching to large numbers of Muslim folks day in and day out every week in Mosques throughout the globe  like this

    Quote

    they preach that across the globe in different countries that have no borders to Israel and you see news like this that is published today

    Tel Aviv shooting: Three killed in shopping centre attack.. BBC news 45 minuts ago

    that news is just 1 hour old.,  we have serious problem there., In that case forget what Jewish folks have now.,  I will give all West Bank, all Golan Heights and Gaza strip to Jewish folks until rogues of Islam change their behavior and their attitude and their ritualistic hate preaching in mosques .

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #1051 - June 09, 2016, 09:52 AM

    See this is the problem I have with most people here,they keep blaming Islam as the main obstacle to the one state solution while (wilfully) ignoring other important factors like politics and socioeconomic which I'm not surprised because lot of y'all are quite ignorant on those areas and excessively view issues through anti theistic lens which is dogmatic itself hence making erroneous conclusions.

    And to say situation in South Africa is different from Israel because of "Islam" is too narrow minded and downplays the atrocities committed against blacks by apartheid govt because of racism. Racism is as dangerous as Religious bigotry as both can lead to violence .FFS people have committed genocide because of racism. Only a myopic fool will make a statistical comparison of the dangers of racism and religious bigotry and think the latter outweighs the former.

    Islamist this,Islamist that. It's always the Islamist fault, it always boil down to Islamists which is becoming an ad nauseum.  Like i have said before. If Israel gives citizenship to Palestinians caught up in conflict along with civil rights. Hamas and Fatah influence will  weaken as they will have less credible causes to fight for. Until then,conflict will still continue and we will still have idiots choosing sides and arguing blindly in favour of each .

    Some people just never change

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #1052 - June 09, 2016, 11:18 AM

    See this is the problem I have with most people here,they keep blaming Islam as the main obstacle to the one state solution while (wilfully) ignoring other important factors like politics and socioeconomic which I'm not surprised because lot of y'all are quite ignorant on those areas and excessively view issues through anti theistic lens which is dogmatic itself hence making erroneous conclusions.
    And to say situation in South Africa is different from Israel because of "Islam" is too narrow minded and downplays the atrocities committed against blacks by apartheid govt because of racism. Racism is as dangerous as Religious bigotry as both can lead to violence .FFS people have committed genocide because of racism. Only a myopic fool will make a statistical comparison of the dangers of racism and religious bigotry and think the latter outweighs the former.
    Islamist this,Islamist that. It's always the Islamist fault, it always boil down to Islamists which is becoming an ad nauseum.  Like i have said before. If Israel gives citizenship to Palestinians caught up in conflict along with civil rights. Hamas and Fatah influence will  weaken as they will have less credible causes to fight for. Until then,conflict will still continue and we will still have idiots choosing sides and arguing blindly in favour of each .

    Some people just never change

    i  will respond to that in detail  and your problems with my posts is not  new cato but that hidden script of yours

    Quote
    And to say situation in South Africa is different from Israel because of "Islam" is too narrow minded and downplays the atrocities committed against blacks by apartheid govt because of racism. Racism is as dangerous as Religious bigotry as both can lead to violence .FFS people have committed genocide because of racism. Only a myopic fool will make a statistical comparison of the dangers of racism and religious bigotry and think the latter outweighs the former

    nonsense and rubbish.. not only that post none of my 20000 posts here or any other forum represents that view you threw in to your post .,  did  some one hit you on your head? are you still attending that  pilot school?

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #1053 - June 09, 2016, 12:11 PM

    You can deny and lie your way out of argument as you usually do but this comment below

    The game in south Africa is/was different from the game in Israel., if it was same game  and  If religion is not the name of the game  A Palestinian  could become president of Israel., But when you have a religious scriptures that hate others and other religious followers and when faith heads and baboons of Islam start preaching to large numbers of Muslim folks day in and day out every week in Mosques throughout the globe  like this
    they preach that across the globe in different countries that have no borders to Israel and you see news like this that is published today


    that news is just 1 hour old.,  we have serious problem there., In that case forget what Jewish folks have now.,  I will give all West Bank, all Golan Heights and Gaza strip to Jewish folks until rogues of Islam change their behavior and their attitude and their ritualistic hate preaching in mosques .


    It's a generalised trope you do hear from a typical Far right pro Israeli and New Atheists that are too fixated on religion like it's a brand new original perspective. You have even gone to the extent of brushing off the comparison of Israel and South Africa because religion wasn't a factor . You can fool politically naive exmuslims here but not me Yeez.


    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #1054 - June 09, 2016, 01:42 PM

    The comparison between SA and this conflict should be focused on acts of government.  In this case the homeland system which attempted to create nation-states for "Blacks". It is similar the how Palestine is treated now. Neither these SA homeland states nor Palestine have true sovereignty, both were still under the authority of the nations in question be it economic control and/or international authority. In both cases citizens do not have or are stripped of citizenship, and the rights of, the recognized nation but "granted" rights of the "homeland" state which has little to no value outside of the area.

    A Palestinian can not become Prime Minister of Israeli, Israeli citizens can. You are equivocating Yeez.
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #1055 - June 09, 2016, 01:48 PM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tIdCsMufIY
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #1056 - June 09, 2016, 02:03 PM

    ....................

    A Palestinian can not become Prime Minister of Israeli, Israeli citizens can. You are equivocating Yeez.

    what I meant to say was you don't need to be Jewish to become  Prime Minister of Israeli bogart.,  in other-words  two nations theory in that little land is gone with the wind...  that PLO president Yasser Arafat ., that problem could have been solved when 2000 Camp David Summit  Clinton-Ehud Barak-Yasser Arafat time...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjvIAuwMrL4

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcSYUItDdZc

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zH-xkTIUtPY

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #1057 - June 09, 2016, 03:23 PM

    what I meant to say was you don't need to be Jewish to become  Prime Minister of Israeli bogart.,


    No problem, thanks for clearing that up.

    Quote
     in other-words  two nations theory in that little land is gone with the wind...  that PLO president Yasser Arafat ., that problem could have been solved when 2000 Camp David Summit  Clinton-Ehud Barak-Yasser Arafat time...


    When neither side can agree with basic compromises it doesn't matter about what if's.

  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #1058 - June 09, 2016, 05:58 PM

    Lot of people will not agree with me but what the hell,I'm going to add my new cent on this either way. I think the best solution to this conflict is one state solution because two state solution approach has failed so far and Israel have already snatched almost all the lands  and they are still at it.

    Under a secular state Palestinians should be given citizenship and be granted civil rights. The right to participate in politics,own a business or seek employment,own property and practice their faith . I think that will eventually end the conflict. Lot of Palestinians caught up in the conflict will gladly accept it and seize their opportunities which could weaken the influence Hamas and Fatah have on them and they will have less credible cause to fight for. Jews,Muslims and Christians have live together in peace before and I don't see why it's impossible unless one is too biased and narrow minded not to see that and such views doesn't help both sides in a bit least but encourage vicious cycle of violence.


    Inb4 but but what about da Islamists?!



    Let's not take Israelis for fools. 1 state solution is suicidal for them.

    No problem with Palestinians having the right to participate in politics, but could they keep Islam out of it ? Think about it.

    Where and when have Muslims and non muslims live peacefully together? Not in a muslim majority country, where non muslims have and still live as second class citizens. That's hardly peaceful.
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #1059 - June 09, 2016, 06:27 PM

    See this is the problem I have with most people here,they keep blaming Islam as the main obstacle to the one state solution while (wilfully) ignoring other important factors like politics and socioeconomic which I'm not surprised because lot of y'all are quite ignorant on those areas and excessively view issues through anti theistic lens which is dogmatic itself hence making erroneous conclusions.

    And to say situation in South Africa is different from Israel because of "Islam" is too narrow minded and downplays the atrocities committed against blacks by apartheid govt because of racism. Racism is as dangerous as Religious bigotry as both can lead to violence .FFS people have committed genocide because of racism. Only a myopic fool will make a statistical comparison of the dangers of racism and religious bigotry and think the latter outweighs the former.

    Islamist this,Islamist that. It's always the Islamist fault, it always boil down to Islamists which is becoming an ad nauseum.  Like i have said before. If Israel gives citizenship to Palestinians caught up in conflict along with civil rights. Hamas and Fatah influence will  weaken as they will have less credible causes to fight for. Until then,conflict will still continue and we will still have idiots choosing sides and arguing blindly in favour of each .

    Some people just never change


    Take Islam out of equation and tell me how many suicide bombers,  walls,  checking points and soldiers with guns on the streets will you have? How that the Druzes are doing very well in Israel?

    There is a big difference between racism and religious bigotry. One is going down, so clearly is a positive trend there, with the other clearly going up, because of Islam.

    We don't blame the islamists. They are mainly simple folks brainwashed with Islam. We blame Islam.
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #1060 - June 09, 2016, 06:45 PM

    @nbhb Sorry I don't argue with racist like you who lies,twist information and digress in an argument just to fit their narrative that supports their racist agenda against Arab or Muslims in general as you have proven to have that reputation since you join this forum. Not to mention you have a thing for circular arguments.

    It amazes me to see a far right white man here who has no business being in an ex-muslim forum but to come here and contribute bullshit. People like you don't belong here and serve no use to ex-muslim's cause. We don't need empathy or support from racists like you . Ali Sina's FFI is where you belong

    So no offence but i dont take anything you say seriously,ever,not even for a split second

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #1061 - June 09, 2016, 07:18 PM

    If you are not prepared to argue 'white racists' like me, add me to your ignore list or don't post at all. Because I enjoy arguing with idealists like you. By far my favourites.
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #1062 - June 09, 2016, 07:26 PM

    Don't flatter yourself and confuse your attention seeking attitude for self importance. You are way too irrelevant for me to put on you on Ignore list in this forum .

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #1063 - June 09, 2016, 08:08 PM

    Let's not take Israelis for fools. 1 state solution is suicidal for them.

    A two state solution, as far as I can see, is an illusion. The alternatives are some variant of a one state solution. Really I'd include the status quo in that as one state with apartheid and bantustans. In practice this suits a lot of Israelis but how secure is it for them in the long run? There are Israeli advocates of a one state solution on the right and the left. The versions I've seen from the right would involve the annexation of the West Bank but exclude Gaza. In a way the de facto policies of successive Israeli governments (as opposed to the lip service paid to two states) point in this direction anyway. So that's one state plus Gaza. Which would maintain a Jewish Israeli majority but wouldn't solve the problem of Gaza. I'm not sure of the exact figures but the full one state, including Gaza, would have roughly similar populations of Palestinians/Arabs and Jewish (and other non-Palestinian) Israelis.
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #1064 - June 09, 2016, 08:11 PM

    You don't have to be too smart or too relevant to ridicule your utopian ideas, Cato. Indeed clever men than me have already done this before. On this forum at least.

    So if I'm in a mode for attention seeking I look for some realists. Idealists like you are for enjoyment. And you are by far my favorite.

  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #1065 - June 09, 2016, 09:09 PM

    A two state solution, as far as I can see, is an illusion. The alternatives are some variant of a one state solution. Really I'd include the status quo in that as one state with apartheid and bantustans. In practice this suits a lot of Israelis but how secure is it for them in the long run? There are Israeli advocates of a one state solution on the right and the left. The versions I've seen from the right would involve the annexation of the West Bank but exclude Gaza. In a way the de facto policies of successive Israeli governments (as opposed to the lip service paid to two states)  point in this direction anyway. So that's one state plus Gaza. Which would maintain a Jewish Israeli majority but wouldn't solve the problem of Gaza. I'm not sure of the exact figures but the full one state, including Gaza, would have roughly similar populations of Palestinians/Arabs and Jewish and other non-Palestinian Israelis.


    Realistically right now, there is no permanent solution which can bring security as well. I think Israelis have given up to this illusion. What they are doing now is exactly the kind of what have you described, a semi two states solution with West Bank annexed and Gaza as the Palestinian state. They can achieve majority in West Bank with discriminatory policies and haredi settlers. And even if the left comes in power I don't think they can reverse this. They are too much in this to somehow back off.

    But comming back at the 1 state solution with Gaza in. Equal populations will mean equal representation in parliament because the parties will split on ethnic/religious grounds. It will be a race for achieving majority and first time Palestinians will succeed,  first thing they will do will be the repatriation for all Palestinians refugees which will give them the edge. Then, with majority achieved, Islam will do the rest. Don't you think this is suicidal for the Jews?
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #1066 - June 09, 2016, 09:44 PM

    You don't have to be too smart or too relevant to ridicule your utopian ideas, Cato. Indeed clever men than me have already done this before. On this forum at least

    So if I'm in a mode for attention seeking I look for some realists. Idealists like you are for enjoyment. And you are by far my favorite.




    I think you must have gotten being realist confused to being dogmatic (folks like you). But then you are someone that gets confused on lot of complex issues . If being  "utopian" or "idealist" means not being a one dimensional minded person like you then I will take that as a compliment. Thanks Smiley

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #1067 - June 09, 2016, 11:25 PM

    ..........You can fool politically naive exmuslims here but not me Yeez....

    .. yes.. yes naive ex-muslims.,   foolish   ex-muslims  and stubborn ex-Muslims.,   well why not., we can have more categories with in ex-Muslims..

    don't worry Cato.. you and me go far away,  all the way to that Ali Sina website., I fooled you many times and I will fool you again ., I know you are a stubborn guy and people like you take a bit of time from me to fool... but that is OK..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #1068 - June 10, 2016, 03:40 PM

    But comming back at the 1 state solution with Gaza in. Equal populations will mean equal representation in parliament because the parties will split on ethnic/religious grounds. It will be a race for achieving majority and first time Palestinians will succeed,  first thing they will do will be the repatriation for all Palestinians refugees which will give them the edge. Then, with majority achieved, Islam will do the rest. Don't you think this is suicidal for the Jews?

    I don't think being in a minority would be suicidal for Israeli Jews, any more than it was for white South Africans when apartheid ended. But in any case, suppose there was a one state solution and exiled Palestinians were given the same rights to live in the country as non-Israeli Jews are now. How many of them do you think would actually take up the opportunity? When it comes down to it what would be the advantage for most people in being a new immigrant in Tel Aviv or Ramallah? No doubt some would want to live out their nationalist dream but I'd imagine most would stick with the lives they have. Just as many Jews in Europe and the US are vocal in their support for Israel but far fewer actually choose to go and live there, and many of the ones who do don't stick it out for the long term.
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #1069 - June 11, 2016, 12:06 AM

    Theorizing Middle Eastern victimhood narratives...

    Yassin al-Haj Saleh - The Just Oppressors
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #1070 - June 11, 2016, 09:42 PM

    Israel razes Palestinian home in West Bank says news



    Quote
    Demolition of 15-year-old's house in Yatta comes after Israeli army besieged same village following shooting in Tel Aviv earlier this week.Israel's army demolished on Saturday the West Bank home of a Palestinian teenager accused of killing an Israeli settler earlier this year, a military spokesman said.

    The demolition took place in Yatta, which is also the hometown of two Palestinian cousins who killed four Israelis in Tel Aviv on Wednesday in the deadliest attack in a months-long wave of violence.

    The village, in the Hebron district of the West Bank where dozens of villages have been besieged since last October, is currently besieged after Israeli security forces closed off all of the entrances within 24 hours of the shooting in Tel Aviv, which also wounded 16.

    Residents in the village told Middle East Eye on Friday that the siege was accompanied by night-time house raids and the detention of dozens of young men.

    Quote
    Yatta's mayor said the blockade was one of the worst in the West Bank in months and had prevented school children from taking final exams. Village resident Murad Ideis, 15, was arrested in January in a raid on his family's home and charged with the murder of Dafna Meir, a 38-year-old nurse and mother of six.


    Meir's killing provoked fierce reaction among Israelis and prompted a personal vow from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that the assailant's house would be razed.

    Israel regularly demolishes the homes of alleged attackers in what it describes as a deterrent. Rights groups say it amounts to collective punishment, with families forced to suffer for the acts of relatives.

    Simon Reynolds, legal advocacy coordinator at Bethlehem-based Badil Resource Center for Palestinian Residency and Refugee Rights, told MEE this week that the siege of Yatta may be prosecutable as a war crime.

    Quote
    “Israel’s application of sanctions against the entire population of Yatta in response to acts allegedly conducted by two residents is not only morally reprehensible, but also entirely unlawful,” Reynolds said.  “The prohibition on collective punishment is strict and unequivocal under international humanitarian law.”


    MEE contacted an Israeli security forces spokesperson on Friday for a response to Reynolds' comments but had not received any by the time of publication.

    The army said Saturday's demolition was carried out without incident, adding that it had also made preparations for the destruction of the homes of both of the Tel Aviv gunmen.

    Violence since October has killed at least 207 Palestinians, 32 Israelis, two Americans, an Eritrean and a Sudanese.




    That is Dafna Meir, a 38-year-old nurse and mother of six stabbed to death by the 15 year old..
     

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #1071 - June 12, 2016, 07:16 AM

    I'm going to give the same solution that people always give to minorities who live in muslim country: Get out.

    What do people say to Pakistani or Bangladeshi hindus, when they are clearly being eradicated? Get out, move to India or something.

    So my solution to Palestinians: Get out. Move to Egypt, Jordan, Saudi, wherever.

    Don't people realize just how unfair this thing is? Why is Palestine such a world-wide issues but eradication of minorities in muslim countries are forgotten? The lives of muslims always top priority?

    Yes, yes. Two wrongs don't make a right. You can spew a lot of philosophical flowery words to cover them up, but the end result is still the same: Eradication of minorities in muslim countries.

    If it's muslims, you have thousands of reasons about why it's ok for them to do that. Well the ME/Pakistan/Bangladesh/Indonesia/Malaysia/(add more?) are already bad places in the first place. Just because they are bad, doesn't mean that we should be bad as well... Is it ok to just apply the same non-solution when the victims are muslims? Israel is a terrible place to live anyway, so why bother trying to change it?

    Why do people specifically care about Israel so much? Is there anything special about Palestinian victims? But what about other victims in muslim countries? Why do people not care about them (us)?

    I mean, you can be an idealist and just try to ignore all these thoughts, but it still doesn't make your position any better. You are still a second class citizen at the end of the day, and the world still does not care. The world watches (and apparently have a live feed) about what happens to Palestinians, though.

    There's a lot of arguments about this, like how jews also teach hatred and it's not just muslims. But just look at reality: You don't like jews, you don't want judaism, where would you go? Right, anywhere but Israel. The world is your oyster. What if you don't like Islam? There are far more Islamic countries than just 1 Israel. Islam has so many Israels all around the world and people somehow manage to forget and dismiss that there are victims of Islam, everywhere.

    Just look at this thread. Israel vs Palestine? So many heated arguments about it, there are so many people who care about it. What about other topics, where there are murders in Pakistan/Bangladesh? Nobody post in these threads except for yeez. Topics are usually dead after 1-2 posts, and they are usually self-posts by yeez. What does this mean? Why so much disparity?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/christian-woman-caned-in-indonesia_us_570ea448e4b0ffa5937e0482

    http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Yogyakarta:-Islamists-expel-thousands-of-Christians-from-a-scout-camp-because-it-is-Ramadan-34678.html

    These examples are just... so little of what reaches international media. It's so sad that the international media does not care, so now we can only rely on Christian medias to report anything, and we know they only report crimes against Christians.

    Edit: Found a better article

    http://www.academia.edu/4439583/Hate_Speech_and_the_Indonesian_Islamic_Defenders_Front

    The sad thing is, FPI/Islamic Defenders Front is only one of the many radical organizations in Indonesia.
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #1072 - June 12, 2016, 07:44 AM

    Quote
    So my solution to Palestinians: Get out. Move to Egypt, Jordan, Saudi, wherever.

    Don't people realize just how unfair this thing is? Why is Palestine such a world-wide issues but eradication of minorities in muslim countries are forgotten? The lives of muslims always top priority?


    Huh? Your statement ignores the historical claims of Palestinian rights to that land in that many families have been settled there for generations prior to the CREATION of Israel and resettlement of millions of Jews principally though not exclusively  FROM Europe to Israel.

    Secondly, your statement also ignores the blatant fact that the Israeli government has at times encouraged and allowed Palestinian land to be occupied further and settlements built.

     Thirdly, you'd have to be a complete moron to ignore the fact that the USA has for decades enabled Israel's destructive policies and vetoes any and often all attempts to bring the Israeli government to account for it's heinous human rights violations when told to do soa t the UN.

    Fourthly, politically and socially there is an anti-Arab discourse that seeks to discriminate against the Palestinians and views Israel a 'religious homeland' that should exclusively be held by Jewish people alone. It's a racist concept.

    History, politics, social dynamics - all these are reasons why the Palestine issue hits such a nerve.

    When it comes to Christians in Pakistan, Sikhs in India or other minorities? - many of us as ignorant of such things and unless we are from those communities we ma not raise them but that doesn't mean we don't care and no matter what case you put forward they are no way on the scale of the Palestine/Israeli issue. Oh, and just because the conversations aren't occurring here then take your own advice and go elsewhere because those conversations are taking place.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #1073 - June 12, 2016, 10:05 AM

    Quote
    Huh? Your statement ignores the historical claims of Palestinian rights to that land in that many families have been settled there for generations prior to the CREATION of Israel and resettlement of millions of Jews principally though not exclusively  FROM Europe to Israel.


    How is Palestinian rights to their land any more special than other minorities right to their lands from muslim invaders?

    Quote
    Secondly, your statement also ignores the blatant fact that the Israeli government has at times encouraged and allowed Palestinian land to be occupied further and settlements built.


    But muslim governments also do that. Maybe not necessarily with military violence, but with mob violence instead... great.

    Quote
    Thirdly, you'd have to be a complete moron to ignore the fact that the USA has for decades enabled Israel's destructive policies and vetoes any and often all attempts to bring the Israeli government to account for it's heinous human rights violations when told to do soa t the UN.


    Israeli government is not the only one who have to answer for its heinous human rights violations.

    Quote
    When it comes to Christians in Pakistan, Sikhs in India or other minorities? - many of us as ignorant of such things and unless we are from those communities we ma not raise them but that doesn't mean we don't care and no matter what case you put forward they are no way on the scale of the Palestine/Israeli issue.


    You just openly admitted that you are IGNORANT of every other minorities. So how exactly would you know that they are no way on the scale of the Palestine/Israel issue? I mean, considering just how many Islamic countries there are, combined all the minorities form a great number of people who are forgotten aren't they?

    You know, when people start to catch on that white lives seem to matter more than black lives, it just seems so wrong. You should be equally as outraged no matter what races the victims are. If you acknowledge that Palestine should strike a nerve while other atrocities don't, you acknowledge that some lives matter more than others.

    I might be barking on the wrong tree, but I just think that this issue steal too much attention and priority while other equally-as-important human rights issues get very little screen time in comparison.
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #1074 - June 12, 2016, 10:26 AM

    Oh Great Helaine who is not ignorant of all minorities please enlighten the plebs of CEMB as to how to prioritise their sympathies and compassion.

    Let's call a meeting of world leaders to settle centuries of grievances...lets give the land back to all the people that have a claim to it. That'll solve all problems. 

    Please Wise Helaine enlighten us as to which land Muslim have invaded in recent years that we are ignoring. I admit that there are lots of Turks and ISIS supporters - bastards! - on CEMB. Let's get out pitchforks and root them out. Start with Yeezee as he is propagandists for baboons of the SAND LANDS and LAND OF PURE.

    I think the MODS are paid by SAUDI ARABIA to try and make Israel look bad. Hmmm, I think Barbarella maybe a Mossad agent. Look out for your shoes Helaine. Watch out for your shoe. Is it safe? Is it??

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #1075 - June 12, 2016, 10:31 AM

    Love your reply Jedi.  <3

    It's amusing to see the likes of Helaine spouting some priviledged ignorant wind baggery bullshit like this and tell us they are being "rational". All these white liberal muthafuckers that comes here and say some ignorant stuff like this because of their bigotry against Muslims really sickens me. Honestly I don't see how they are less worse than the Muslim extremists

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #1076 - June 12, 2016, 10:37 AM

    How is Palestinian rights to their land any more special than other minorities right to their lands from muslim invaders?

     
    Hello Helaine .,I will answer that question., in detail., but rest of it is a different story., And I am going to delete couple of words here from your post and that is Muslim Invaders., There were invaders in Islam but I would say more than 75% may be 90% are converters .,In other words many of their forefathers accepted the faith ...

    you must realize  Palestinian Muslims and their ancestors lived there 100s and even 1000s of years there.. they are NOT invaders  but their forefathers converted to Islam for one reason or other..

    in your posts you mentioned many so-called Islamic countries..

    Palestinian rights .... muslim invaders?
    Israeli government ...
    Pakistani or Bangladeshi hindus
    Get out, move to India
    ME/Pakistan/Bangladesh/Indonesia/Malaysia/(add more?) are already bad places in the first place.


    You see Helaine  however bad Islam as a faith may be ( ALL FAITHS ARE STUPID AND SOME ARE BAD).,The Muslim folks that are living in all these countries for centuries and centuries and are NOT Muslims of 7th century  Arabian desert ..

    Quote
    country...............  population......................% Muslim folks............with other faiths
    Afghanistan...............29,047,100...................99.8......................................1.8
      Algeria......................40,400,000...................98.2 .. ....................................2.7
    Azerbaijan....................8,795,000...................98.4.........................................0.5
    Bahrain.............................866,888 ....................70.2 .................... .................0.1
     Bangladesh...................145,607,000..............86.3.......................................9.2
    Egypt..................................80,024,000.................94.7.....................................4.9
     Iran.....................................74,819,000..................99.7....................................4.6
    Jordan...................................6,397,000...................93.8...................................0.4
     Kazakhstan..........................8,887,000...................70.2..................................0.5
     Iraq   ........................................31,108,000................98.9..................................1.9
    Kuwait.......................................2,636,000..................86.4................................0.2
    Kyrgyzstan.................................4,927,000................88.8................................0.3
     Libya...........................................6,325,000..................96.6.............................0.4
    Malaysia....................................17,139,000.....................61.4............................1.1
     Mali...........................................15,667,704.....................95 ..............................0.8
    Morocco...........................................32,381,000................99.............................2.0
     Niger...........................................19,502,214.....................98.3..........................1.0
    Oman..............................................2,547,000......................87.7.........................0.2
     Pakistan.......................................178,000,000..................96.4........................11.0
    Palestine.........................................4,298,000........................97.5.......................0.3
    Saudi Arabia.................................25,493,000   ........................97.1..................1.6
    Senegal............................................14,584,931..........................95.9.................0.8
    Somalia........................................9,231,000..............................98.9..................0.6
    Sudan.......................................39,027,950...................................97.0 .................1.9
    Syria.............................................20,895,000...................................90..............1.3
    Tajikistan........................................7,006,000.............................99.0..................0.4
    Turkey.................................................74,660,000..........................98.6.................4.6
    Uzbekistan......................................26,833,000...................................96.5..........1.7

    Quote
    South & Southeast Asia......1,005,507,000................24.8.............62.1
    Middle East-North Africa....................321,869,000......................91.2........19.9
    Sub-Saharan Africa................................242,544,000....................29.6.............15.0
    Europe............................................................44,138,000......................6.0...........2.7
    Americas........................................................5,256,000.........................0.6............0.3
    WorldTotal ...............................................1,703,146,000...................23.4........100.0


    that 1.3 or 1.7 ..whatever billion Muslims are NOT 7th century Muslims of Arabian desert., please go through the wiki link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country
    and  your solution  this one
    Quote
    So my solution to Palestinians: Get out. Move to Egypt, Jordan, Saudi, wherever.

    IS NOT A   SOLUTION but tragedy of human race with unprecedented  consequences.  By that what you are saying and proposing is horrible unthinkable  human tragedy ..  You must realize

    Present Pakistani Muslims are NOT Arabian Muslims of 7th century ., they are Pakistanis, their forefathers are from Pakistan ., and they were there before birth of Islam.

    Present Palestinian  Muslims are NOT Arabian Muslims of 7th century ., they are Palestinians and  their forefathers are from Palestinian.,  and they were there before birth of Islam.

    Present Malaysian  Muslims are NOT Arabian Muslims of 7th century ., they are Malaysians and  their forefathers are from Malaysia.,  and they were there before birth of Islam.

    Present Indonesian   Muslims are NOT Arabian Muslims of 7th century ., they are Indonesians  and  their forefathers are from Indonesia.,  and they were there before birth of Islam.

    Present Bangladesh    Muslims are NOT Arabian Muslims of 7th century ., they are Bangladeshis and  their forefathers are from Bangladesh.,  and they were there before birth of Islam

    Present Somalian and Sudan   Muslims are NOT Arabian Muslims of 7th century ., they are Somalis and Sudanese  and  their forefathers are from Somalia and Sudan.,  and they were there before birth of Islam


    Well I can write a song out of it .,
    Quote
    Present XXXXX  Muslims are NOT Arabian Muslims of 7th century ., they are XXXXX  and  their forefathers are from XXXXXX.,  and they were there before birth of Islam

     you can replace that XXXX and put any country/ culture there.,  it fits to every thing..  Your proposals is wrong your concept is wrong and your history is wrong.

    ISLAM IS A FAITH. LIKE ANY OTHER FAITH IT IS A STUPID FAITH., It has its own rules which., unfortunately  are deadly and detrimental to other faiths,  other faith heads and very often to Muslims themselves..

    So please change your way of thinking ., off course you have every right and must have freedom to air your opinions.

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #1077 - June 13, 2016, 10:53 AM

    Don't people realize just how unfair this thing is? Why is Palestine such a world-wide issues but eradication of minorities in muslim countries are forgotten? The lives of muslims always top priority?

    If it's muslims, you have thousands of reasons about why it's ok for them to do that. Well the ME/Pakistan/Bangladesh/Indonesia/Malaysia/(add more?) are already bad places in the first place. Just because they are bad, doesn't mean that we should be bad as well... Is it ok to just apply the same non-solution when the victims are muslims? Israel is a terrible place to live anyway, so why bother trying to change it?

    Just look at this thread. Israel vs Palestine? So many heated arguments about it, there are so many people who care about it. What about other topics, where there are murders in Pakistan/Bangladesh? Nobody post in these threads except for yeez. Topics are usually dead after 1-2 posts, and they are usually self-posts by yeez. What does this mean? Why so much disparity?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/christian-woman-caned-in-indonesia_us_570ea448e4b0ffa5937e0482

    http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Yogyakarta:-Islamists-expel-thousands-of-Christians-from-a-scout-camp-because-it-is-Ramadan-34678.html

    These examples are just... so little of what reaches international media. It's so sad that the international media does not care, so now we can only rely on Christian medias to report anything, and we know they only report crimes against Christians.

    Edit: Found a better article

    http://www.academia.edu/4439583/Hate_Speech_and_the_Indonesian_Islamic_Defenders_Front

    The sad thing is, FPI/Islamic Defenders Front is only one of the many radical organizations in Indonesia.


    Because we hold Islamic world by different standards. We take for granted that discrimination against non Muslims exists in the Muslim majority countries. It's just normality.

    Israel as a country which in practice is a Western country, is judged by western standards.
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #1078 - June 13, 2016, 11:08 AM

    Because we hold Islamic world by different standards. We take for granted that discrimination against non Muslims exists in the Muslim majority countries. It's just normality.

    Who is asking you to treat Islamic world and Muslims differently nbhb??

    Quote
    Israel as a country which in practice is a Western country, is judged by western standards.

    I don't know what you mean by that  .,   Globe/earth is  spherical  if you go around  east becomes west and west becomes east..

      Israel is a middle-eastern country it is judged by what it does..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #1079 - June 13, 2016, 11:38 AM

    It's normality Yeeze, discrimination of non muslims is common practice, it is what you expect from those countries.

    Who said something about Muslims?
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