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 Topic: hey another exmuslim

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  • hey another exmuslim
     OP - May 01, 2011, 07:20 PM

    actually i come from reddit. i wanted to meet some new comrades.



    i posted my story on reddit so i'll link two stories from there. actually it won't let me link, so i'll copy paste instead. you guys can google it to get to the source

    becoming an exmuslim, from two of my reddit comments.

    Quote
    i stopped being a muslim after seeing this video (ken miller video on chromosome 2)

    this was around late 07, early 08. i can't say i understood as much about evolution as i do now, but this guy was presenting genetic evidence. you just can't go up against dna. science was in direct contradiction to what was thought to me. and you know, i like science.

    ---------------------------------------

    i was born in to a turkish muslim family. so i don't know arabic. i was thought how to read the quran when i was young, and i even read half of it, even tho i didn't understand what i was reading (stupid isn't it). i did it to gain 'sevab'
    i remember asking my religious teachers, and my dad, why i couldn't just learn arabic and interpret for myself what it said. it's quite funny actually, they will tell you that the quran is the word of Allah, but you don't have the scholarship of interpreting it for yourself, since it's in arabic and written a very long time ago. you need to rely on religious "scholars", "alims", "ulemas" and "evliyas" for your understanding of islam. now who made these people scholars, that is another issue all together.
    so i can't pinpoint to you where in the quran it says some nonsense about science. (actually ash09 would like to have a [1] word with you) i wasn't thought islam from the quran at all. i would venture to say that this is also the experience of most if not many muslims around the world. i think ~20% of muslims are arabs.

    some muslim reading this might be thinking i'm letting the quran off the hook. and that the truth is in the quran and i just haven't seen it yet or that i haven't found an interpretation supporting evolution, abiogenesis and the big bang and whatever else. i honestly don't think allah took three tries to get things right. he sent people in the desert the tevrat(torah), and than he sent them the incil(bible) to supercede his previous laws and then the quran to supercede the previous two and all involving some alleged 120,000 prophets. but this too is also besides the point.
    after i learned about abiogenesis and evolution, i wanted to see what these "scholars" had to say about it. so i opened up one of my dad's book of some "scholar" and read it. i still remember the argument he presented. he said what are the chances of pulling 10 numbers, from one to ten, out of a bag in the right order. it's 1 in 3628800 (1 in 10!). if the chances are that low for something mundane like pulling balls out of bag in order, what are the chances for molecules coming together and forming cells.

    this "scholar" clearly didn't know what he was talking about. abiogenesis, and evolution are not things defined by chance. things don't just come together, bump into each other and form something of magnificent order just randomly. there is a natural mechanism to all this. someone who doesn't have an understanding of this mechanism might buy into this "scholar's" disingenuous, straw-hat argument.

    so i guess i have to thank the internet, and especially youtube. lot's of videos on evolution there. if you read my long reply, at least watch this video.


    becoming an atheist, another comment

    Quote
    i have read many many stories of fellow atheists here. in fact i'm the moderator of r/thegreatproject.

    i understand that we all came to the same conclusion that god is a figment of human imagination. but most of my fellow atheists came to that conclusion by questioning god's contradictory nature.
    it's just, that's not how i got there. i used to be a muslim, i remember watching ken miller present genetic evidence of the fusion of chromosome #2. i stopped being a muslim because science was in direct contradiction with what i was brought up to believe. and for a while, i was agnostic.

    i remember a friend asked me once why i believed in god, and i thought about sincerely for a few seconds and i said "because i want to," i realized it wasn't a rational reason, but it wasn't enough to push me over the hump.

    one day as i was staring at a pencil on my table. i thought to myself, how could i move it with my mind. the 'bending spoon' scene from the matrix had left a mark on me. as i thought about it, i realized the only way one could move that pencil was if he/she put in some energy in to it thru a physical process. and it just dawned on me right there. that one could not break the laws of the universe. if the laws held true for the pen and the space surrounding the pen, they would have to hold true for all space and time. they held true for the whole universe. [you could also extend this for all of existence, think about the nature of the universe 'before' the big bang]

    i immediately realized miracles can't happen. more importantly, miracles didn't happen. jesus didn't walk on water, and turn water in whine. these were blatant violations.

    and i couldn't fit in a god in to that universe. because he is incompatible with such a universe. coupled with the notion that believing is equivalent to wanting to believe, it occurred to me that god didn't exist. a few days later, i saw stephen hawkings give an interview to charlie rose, and he practically brought up the same points about the universe. i knew i was right.


    i'm turkish, tho i spent a good chunk of my life in the US. thank fsm, otherwise I wouldn't have had access to information that led me out of this indoctrination. i'm also grateful for having a good head on my shoulders. religion is like a psychological disorder, it seriously cripples critical thinking. unfortunately, i don't think a lot of people have the hardware to escape from its clutches.

    i'm also looking for feedback. i think here in turkey one of the biggest obstacles to free thought is that the majority of muslims don't go to the source of the information.  and most of the source is in english, so there is a huge language barrier. this might sound stupid, but i was wondering if there is a way we could email spam the hell out of the country with information. bring the information to them. at least expose them to the information. everyday, i get a few emails from nigerians asking for money. i realize there are a lot of technical hurdles in pulling this off, so what do you guys think?

    another idea i had was to confront all these muslims on facebook. using facebook as a platform, we could inflate, and i mean really really inflate our numbers thru fake accounts, i've seen trolls do this, and argue with them. maybe a program can keep track of all the accounts.

    one of my biggest pleasures is to get to know other exmuslims. we are so rare, it's not funny. nice to meet you all. grin12

    i looked for god in the universe, but i didn't find him. instead i found an indifferent universe.

    i can't believe islam is still around.
  • Re: hey another exmuslim
     Reply #1 - May 01, 2011, 08:02 PM

    Welcome, akuma99. parrot

    So what lead you to this paradise?


    i'm also looking for feedback. i think here in turkey one of the biggest obstacles to free thought is that the majority of muslims don't go to the source of the information.  and most of the source is in english, so there is a huge language barrier.

    There are atheists in Turkey, and I believe there are a few organized groups.

    this might sound stupid, but i was wondering if there is a way we could email spam the hell out of the country with information. bring the information to them. at least expose them to the information. everyday, i get a few emails from nigerians asking for money. i realize there are a lot of technical hurdles in pulling this off, so what do you guys think?

    another idea i had was to confront all these muslims on facebook. using facebook as a platform, we could inflate, and i mean really really inflate our numbers thru fake accounts, i've seen trolls do this, and argue with them. maybe a program can keep track of all the accounts.

    It does sound stupid.

    "Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
    - Robert Louis Stevenson
  • Re: hey another exmuslim
     Reply #2 - May 01, 2011, 09:05 PM

    signwelcome   you're not alone, we have a few Turkish members here already

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: hey another exmuslim
     Reply #3 - May 01, 2011, 09:30 PM

    honestly i heard about this forum a few month ago. i also saw some of the youtube videos by cemb members. however, i saw one a few days, and it really impressed me. so here i am.

    >There are atheists in Turkey, and I believe there are a few organized groups.

    i'm sure there are. drop a little rock in a big lake. the rock is an exmuslim, everything else is islam. it's bad here. the older generation is a lost cause. and what worries me is that the new generation will not have their views confronted. a lot of people really live in boxes. 'ateist' is about one of the worst words in turkish.

    >but i was wondering if there is a way we could email spam the hell out of the country with information. bring the information to them. at least expose them to the information.

    could you explain to me why this is not do-able? i don't mean this in a confrontation manner. i'm just curious.

    i looked for god in the universe, but i didn't find him. instead i found an indifferent universe.

    i can't believe islam is still around.
  • Re: hey another exmuslim
     Reply #4 - May 01, 2011, 09:53 PM

    Welcome, Akuma. Glad to have you here.  dance

    I'm in agreeance with the opposition to your idea. I don't think it's impossible to do, but it is short-sighted, unnecessarily inflammatory and a little foolish. People will either leave Islam or they won't and there are plenty of resources available in print and electronic form for anyone who feels like looking it up. I don't know about you, but I'd rather not be placed in the same categories as a JWs, Nigerian "princes" or facebook e-thugs.

    "I know where I'm going and I know the truth, and I don't have to be what you want me to be. I'm free to be what I want."
    Muhammad Ali
  • Re: hey another exmuslim
     Reply #5 - May 01, 2011, 11:10 PM

    Welcome to the forum, Akuma. victory

    10 points for originality on various ideas of yours Afro (the materialist label, the spamming idea etc),  but the spamming idea is a little too wacky for my liking. Tongue

    I don't think there are many (if any) 'strong atheists' on this forum.  Most people here are materialist atheists but not "strong" atheists.  (There are a few non-materialist atheists too.)  You seem to be asserting that God definitely doesn't exist.  But hey.. at least you are not a platitudinarian and you've got your reasoning for making that claim. Afro

    Welcome and enjoy your stay, bro. parrot

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: hey another exmuslim
     Reply #6 - May 02, 2011, 02:41 AM

    welcome to the forum! enjoy your stay Smiley

    I think a lot of us were brought here by google. Verily google guides whom it wills!

  • Re: hey another exmuslim
     Reply #7 - May 02, 2011, 08:52 AM

    hey thanks for having me,  thnkyu

    >People will either leave Islam or they won't and there are plenty of resources available in print and electronic form for anyone who feels like looking it up.

    honestly i really think this is one of the biggest problems. i understand that resources are out there, but here in turkey people will not go out of their ways to look up the information. there is no real criticism of islam, unlike in the US or UK where muslims are in the minority and have to deal some level of constant criticism or backlash, something that would force them to be exposed to information they would otherwise not be exposed to. that sort of environment is not here in turkey. if the millions of turkish muslims, and muslims from other developing countries just knew what their prophet did in the hadith they deem authentic, a lot of them would question their faith. at least bad aspects of the religion would be watered down. regardless it would be a win win situation. i think the real problem is that there is information, and there are muslims, and they just haven't collided. also i'm not saying spam the US or UK, just people in turkey (or insert any other predominantly muslim country) from a database of emails.

    i looked for god in the universe, but i didn't find him. instead i found an indifferent universe.

    i can't believe islam is still around.
  • Re: hey another exmuslim
     Reply #8 - May 02, 2011, 08:55 AM

    thanks for the warm welcome  grin12

    my favorite word isn't atheist, strong atheist, weak atheist, materialist or even agnostic. it's ex-muslim. the more the merrier.  grin12


    i looked for god in the universe, but i didn't find him. instead i found an indifferent universe.

    i can't believe islam is still around.
  • Re: hey another exmuslim
     Reply #9 - May 02, 2011, 09:28 AM

    also i'm not saying spam the US or UK, just people in turkey (or insert any other predominantly muslim country) from a database of emails.

    I don't particularly like the idea of spamming people via emails, but I have another idea:  joining Islamic forums and showing them the info that way.  They will ban us pretty quickly but we could be relentless and keep reappearing.  The problem is: it only reaches a very small proportion of Muslims i.e. those who go on these forums.

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: hey another exmuslim
     Reply #10 - May 02, 2011, 12:41 PM

    >but I have another idea:  joining Islamic forums and showing them the info that way.  They will ban us pretty quickly but we could be relentless and keep reappearing.  The problem is: it only reaches a very small proportion of Muslims i.e. those who go on these forums.

    yea. small audience. who can also ban you from their forums.

    >I don't particularly like the idea of spamming people via emails,

    i think the ends would justify the means. i need to do some more research on the technicalities.

    i looked for god in the universe, but i didn't find him. instead i found an indifferent universe.

    i can't believe islam is still around.
  • Re: hey another exmuslim
     Reply #11 - May 02, 2011, 01:32 PM

    Hi mate, welcome to the forum.

    I admire the fight you have inside you. There are others on this forum who are very proactive in trying to reach Muslims, but you sound like you are in a league of your own...

    I share The Wyre's opinion in that spammers in general are not respected, so your idea may prove to be counter-productive... would it not be better to somehow leave various signposts on the net, that would direct people to the information you want them to see? I think that is essentially what others on this forum do.


    Hi
  • Re: hey another exmuslim
     Reply #12 - May 03, 2011, 07:42 AM

    Welcome to the forum.  parrot

    Man created God in his image : intolerant, sexist, homophobic and violent.
  • Re: hey another exmuslim
     Reply #13 - May 03, 2011, 10:22 AM

    Welcome to the forum.  Smiley

    19:46   <zizo>: hugs could pimp u into sex

    Quote from: yeezevee
    well I am neither ex-Muslim nor absolute 100% Non-Muslim.. I am fucking Zebra

  • Re: hey another exmuslim
     Reply #14 - May 03, 2011, 10:30 AM

    bro there just aren't that many exmuslims here in turkey. we're vastly outnumbered. but i'll do more than my part to spread information.


    i also read the story about you and your wife. religion poisons. best of luck to you.

    edit - thank you for all the warm welcomes everyone  thnkyu

    i looked for god in the universe, but i didn't find him. instead i found an indifferent universe.

    i can't believe islam is still around.
  • Re: hey another exmuslim
     Reply #15 - May 03, 2011, 01:10 PM

    welcome to the forum, comrade  Afro

    Quote
    another idea i had was to confront all these muslims on facebook. using facebook as a platform, we could inflate, and i mean really really inflate our numbers thru fake accounts, i've seen trolls do this, and argue with them. maybe a program can keep track of all the accounts.


    i have a couple of facebook accounts set up just for this
    i have a lot of smart muslim friends and it's a shame that they're being deceived
    of course, most will just ignore you after a couple of messages back and forth  wacko
  • Re: hey another exmuslim
     Reply #16 - May 03, 2011, 02:21 PM

    >i have a couple of facebook accounts set up just for this

    mad respect man. i knew i wasn't the first one to think of this. actually you would be surprised where i got it the original idea from. from turkish porn companies, at least i think they're porn companies. what they do is open up facebook accounts that anyone can view, they put a bunch of pics of hot chicks as profile pics, and they have thousands of followers. each. i was planning to open a few myself. get many followers and post exmuslim videos on those accounts. i love exmuslim forums, the problem is the outreach isn't big you know.

    do you know how i can automate the process and open up some 100 accounts? i would also want to create an argue-with-a-muslim site using these troll facebook accounts. i don't know how i would go about it tho.

    >i have a lot of smart muslim friends and it's a shame that they're being deceived

    same here Cry

    i looked for god in the universe, but i didn't find him. instead i found an indifferent universe.

    i can't believe islam is still around.
  • Re: hey another exmuslim
     Reply #17 - May 03, 2011, 02:28 PM

    I know who you are and where you live. I will expose you.
  • Re: hey another exmuslim
     Reply #18 - May 03, 2011, 03:24 PM

    bro there just aren't that many exmuslims here in turkey. we're vastly outnumbered. but i'll do more than my part to spread information.


    i also read the story about you and your wife. religion poisons. best of luck to you.

    edit - thank you for all the warm welcomes everyone  thnkyu


    Thank you.

    And Respect to you bro, for more than making up for the lack of effort from the likes of me.

    Hi
  • Re: hey another exmuslim
     Reply #19 - May 03, 2011, 03:37 PM

    Welcome!

    I hope you enjoy your stay here. We are all friendly creatures.

    Grouchy  what is the  good reason for picking up an innocent girl  as Osama  bin Laden?    

  • Re: hey another exmuslim
     Reply #20 - May 03, 2011, 05:23 PM

    >I know who you are and where you live. I will expose you.

    well nice to meet you too. tho i can't tell if you are a prick or a friend. not good with poe's law

    i looked for god in the universe, but i didn't find him. instead i found an indifferent universe.

    i can't believe islam is still around.
  • Re: hey another exmuslim
     Reply #21 - May 03, 2011, 06:11 PM

    Welcome you infidel!

     parrot

    "Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all
            Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

    - John Keats
  • Re: hey another exmuslim
     Reply #22 - May 05, 2011, 06:33 PM

    Hoshgeldiniz agam. Yanliz degilsiniz  whistling2
    You know my friend, sometimes I wonder whether we'd be doing the right thing by promoting atheism in a society like Turkey, where religion still plays a big role.
    You know, the reason many people are moral is because they fear Allah. Not only that, - but Allah brings people together, it is with you when you're unhappy or frustrated, it is a friend you can always turn to.
    When one person who was previously religious, gets convinced that religions is all bullshit, he will almost surely get in a depression, get into alcohol problems, narcotics, suicide etc etc.


    I shouldn't be here. Really. Shaytan SWT deluded ALL of us. Amen.
  • Re: hey another exmuslim
     Reply #23 - May 05, 2011, 07:30 PM

    ustam hos bulduk.

    to be honest with you, i'm not really interested in spreading atheism. i think it distracts from the main goal which is to eradicate islam. i'll take an agnostic over a muslim anyday.

    dostum, you might know this better than me, where can i find a standardized collection of the hadith (hadisi-serif) in turkish. kinda like the usc collection over at http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/

    if only turkish muslims knew what was in the hadith. we have a small collection over at reddit. you can find them at reddit.com/r/hadith.

    hadith is where islam dies.

    i looked for god in the universe, but i didn't find him. instead i found an indifferent universe.

    i can't believe islam is still around.
  • Re: hey another exmuslim
     Reply #24 - May 05, 2011, 10:40 PM

    Welcome akuma99 Smiley

    I don't know a lot about Turkey, but I heard that people there are Muslims by name only and that Islam is not so dominant in people's lives. Is that true?

    By the way, I love Turkish music dance even though I don't understand Turkish lol
  • Re: hey another exmuslim
     Reply #25 - May 05, 2011, 10:52 PM


    When one person who was previously religious, gets convinced that religions is all bullshit, he will almost surely get in a depression, get into alcohol problems, narcotics, suicide etc etc.



    That's what's happening to me right now,except the alcohol and narcotics part ^_^"
  • Re: hey another exmuslim
     Reply #26 - May 06, 2011, 08:13 PM

    hey whyme99. i would say turkey is less religious compared to your average arab country. but the laws themselves are secular in nature. unfortunately half the chicks where i live wear hijabs.   finmad

    you love turkish music? let me guess you listen to tarkan Smiley where are you from?

    i looked for god in the universe, but i didn't find him. instead i found an indifferent universe.

    i can't believe islam is still around.
  • Re: hey another exmuslim
     Reply #27 - May 07, 2011, 10:56 PM

    lool How did you know? Well it's not only Tarkan. I don't know the names of the other singers,but I have a variety of songs written in Turkish in my iPod and I just know their order lol 

    I'm from Palestine,but I live in the Gulf.
  • Re: hey another exmuslim
     Reply #28 - May 07, 2011, 11:18 PM

    Welcome  far away hug
  • Re: hey another exmuslim
     Reply #29 - May 08, 2011, 04:50 AM

    unfortunately half the chicks where i live wear hijabs.   finmad

    Welcome to west London.
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