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Theme Changer

 Topic: Churchill's Views on Islam in 1899

 (Read 2721 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Churchill's Views on Islam in 1899
     OP - April 28, 2011, 10:24 PM

    If this has already been posted before, it's worth posting again  Afro

    One has to appreciate the intellect of this great man. He worked out what Islam  only few years after the below picture was taken (at the age of about ~25 I work it out to be). Today his comments would be seen as *OH NO ISLAMAPHOBIA* !!



    Quote
    "How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries!
    Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia
    in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many
    countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods
    of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet
    rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity.

    The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as
    his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must
    delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased
    to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid
    qualities - but the influence of the religion paralyses the social
    development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists
    in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and
    proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa,
    raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity
    is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it
    had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell
    the civilization of ancient Rome."


    -Sir Winston Churchill (The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pages
    248-50 (London: Longmans, Green & Co., 1899).
    1 November 2005 - Australia


    Source 1
    Source 2
  • Re: Churchill's Views on Islam in 1899
     Reply #1 - April 28, 2011, 10:31 PM

    *yawn*
  • Re: Churchill's Views on Islam in 1899
     Reply #2 - April 28, 2011, 11:41 PM

    HO are you aware that Churchill was rather pally with those who export an ideology you would call "wahhabism"?



    I believe he even sent the Saudis a Rolls Royce as a gift  parrot
  • Re: Churchill's Views on Islam in 1899
     Reply #3 - April 29, 2011, 12:03 AM


    He had some great one-liners.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Churchill's Views on Islam in 1899
     Reply #4 - April 29, 2011, 12:04 AM

    I didn't know he sent them a Rolls Royce as a gift specifically!  Tongue

    There's definitely an interesting history with Churchill and building a Saudi nation. His intension:

    Quote
    to set up an Arab government, and to make it take the responsibility, with our aid and our guidance and with an effective measure of our support, until they are strong enough to stand alone ... (and) to reduce our commitments and to extricate ourselves from our burdens while at the same time honorably discharging our obligations and building up strong and effective Arab government which will always be the friend of Britain.


    But also, he's noted writing:

    Quote
    A large number of Bin Saud's followers belong to the Wahabi sect, a form of Mohammedanism which bears, roughly speaking, the same relationship to orthodox Islam as the most militant form of Calvinism would have borne to Rome in the fiercest times of [Europe's] religious wars.
     
     The Wahhabis profess a life of exceeding austerity, and what they practice themselves they rigorously enforce on others. They hold it as an article of duty, as well as of faith, to kill all who do not share their opinions and to make slaves of their wives and children. Women have been put to death in Wahhabi villages for simply appearing in the streets.
     
     It is a penal offence to wear a silk garment. Men have been killed for smoking a cigarette and, as for the crime of alcohol, the most energetic supporter of the temperance cause in this country falls far behind them. Austere, intolerant, well-armed, and blood-thirsty, in their own regions the Wahhabis are a distinct factor which must be taken into account, and they have been, and still are, very dangerous to the holy cities of Mecca and Medina.


    Source

    There's also this link with more history which looks like a good read:
    http://www.handbookforinfidels.com/Churchill-on-Islam.html
  • Re: Churchill's Views on Islam in 1899
     Reply #5 - April 29, 2011, 12:15 AM

    He had some great one-liners.




    Plenty: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/845063/posts

    ... and one on Islam: "What the horn is to the rhinoceros, what the sting is to the wasp, the Mohammadan faith is to the Arabs."
  • Re: Churchill's Views on Islam in 1899
     Reply #6 - April 29, 2011, 12:34 AM

    I didn't know he sent them a Rolls Royce as a gift specifically!  Tongue

    There's definitely an interesting history with Churchill and building a Saudi nation. His intension:

    But also, he's noted writing:

    Source

    There's also this link with more history which looks like a good read:
    http://www.handbookforinfidels.com/Churchill-on-Islam.html


    He could have just said he wants anything that is pro-Britain even if it is a theocratic Kingdom. It doesn't matter what he said about Islam, fact is he's no different to modern day politicians ie a hypocrite. Say one thing and do another!

    It doesn't seem like a good read, its full of rubbish and hate, typical right-wing crap.

    Quote
    An outbreak began among the tribes in the Swat Valley  --  the folks currently giving refuge to Osama bin Laden's Al Qaeda thugs (and, consequently, the recipients of the occasional Hellfire missile, launched from a Predator drone that wanders over the border from Afghanistan)


    Meh, maybe you or the knob who wrote this should go live in the NWFP and have the "occasional Hellfire missile" hit you, your family and entire village.

    Btw, at the end of the day the Pashtuns successfully resisted British occupation and are once again  Tongue
  • Re: Churchill's Views on Islam in 1899
     Reply #7 - April 29, 2011, 03:02 PM

    He could have just said he wants anything that is pro-Britain even if it is a theocratic Kingdom. It doesn't matter what he said about Islam, fact is he's no different to modern day politicians ie a hypocrite. Say one thing and do another!


    Of course, that's politics, it's not like Islam and such undeveloped cultures can be wiped out in people's mind with a click of a button. Pragmatism and compromise will ensue.

    It doesn't seem like a good read, its full of rubbish and hate, typical right-wing crap.

    Meh, maybe you or the knob who wrote this should go live in the NWFP and have the "occasional Hellfire missile" hit you, your family and entire village.


    Here we go again, the debate becomes personal. I was merely saying how Churchill's writings are a pretty good read. Just finished reading it, and yes, I thought it was a good read imo. Especially this part:

    Quote
    Yet the life even of these barbarous people is not without moments when the lover of the picturesque might sympathise with their hopes and fears. In the cool of the evening, when the sun has sunk behind the mountains of Afghanistan, and the valleys are filled with a delicious twilight, the elders of the village lead the way to the chenar trees by the water's side, and there, while the men are cleaning their rifles, or smoking their hookas, and the women are making rude ornaments from beads, and cloves, and nuts, the Mullah drones the evening prayer. Few white men have seen, and returned to tell the tale. But we may imagine the conversation passing from the prices of arms and cattle, the prospects of the harvest, or the village gossip, to the great Power, that lies to the southward, and comes nearer year by year.  ......  Then the Mullah will raise his voice and remind them of other days when the sons of the prophet drove the infidel from the plains of India, and ruled at Delhi, as wide an Empire as the Kafir holds to-day: when the true religion strode proudly through the earth and scorned to lie hidden and neglected among the hills: when mighty princes ruled in Bagdad, and all men knew that there was one God, and Mahomet was His prophet. And the young men hearing these things will grip their Martinis *, and pray to Allah, that one day He will bring some Sahib -- best prize of all -- across their line of sight at seven hundred yards so that, at least, they may strike a blow for insulted and threatened Islam. …


    ... and this part ...

    Quote
    " ... there are many people in England, and perhaps elsewhere, who seem to be unable to contemplate military operations for clear political objects, unless they can cajole themselves into the belief that their enemy are utterly and hopelessly vile. To this end the Dervishes, from the Mahdi and the Khalifa downwards, have been loaded with every variety of abuse and charged with all conceivable crimes. This may be very comforting to philanthropic persons at home; but when an army in the field becomes imbued with the idea that that the enemy are vermin who cumber the earth, instances of barbarity may easily be the outcome. This unmeasured condemnation is moreover as unjust as it is dangerous and unnecessary... We are told that the British and Egyptian armies entered Omdurman to free the people from the Khalifa's yoke. Never were rescuers more unwelcome."

  • Re: Churchill's Views on Islam in 1899
     Reply #8 - April 29, 2011, 03:25 PM

    That last quote isn't very right wing, Aphrodite. ^^

    No one-eyed Neo-Con triumphalism here either, just a sense of perspective and a knowledge of history: "Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, "

    (I'm not arsed about the Christianity, it's his intuitive understanding of its limitations that is interesting.)
  • Re: Churchill's Views on Islam in 1899
     Reply #9 - April 29, 2011, 03:52 PM

    it's not like Islam and such undeveloped cultures can be wiped out in people's mind with a click of a button



    Drone strikes ftw!

    Here we go again, the debate becomes personal. I was merely saying how Churchill's writings are a pretty good read. Just finished reading it, and yes, I thought it was a good read imo. Especially this part:

    ... and this part ...



    I read a bit of that book a few years ago (yes I was boring tomboy who had a thing for war) but I never finished reading it. Might read it this summer.
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