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Theme Changer

 Poll

  • Question: Is deism a subset of atheism?
  • Yes - its part of it and a branch of atheism
  • No - its a distinct & separate category
  • Dont know

 Topic: Is deism a subset of atheism?

 (Read 9436 times)
  • 12 3 4 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Is deism a subset of atheism?
     OP - April 12, 2011, 01:42 PM
    This is following on from a debate with my brother at the weekend, and just wondering what others thought here.
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  • Re: Is deism a subset of atheism?
     Reply #1 - April 12, 2011, 01:44 PM
    No, I can see why a religious person would think so, assuming your brother is religious, as deists reject personal gods... childish fantasies.
  • Re: Is deism a subset of atheism?
     Reply #2 - April 12, 2011, 01:47 PM
    Deists collect stamps.
  • Re: Is deism a subset of atheism?
     Reply #3 - April 12, 2011, 01:48 PM
    Quote from: Prince Spinoza on April 12, 2011, 01:44 PM
    No, I can see why a religious person would think so, assuming your brother is religious, as deists reject personal gods... childish fantasies.

    no, my brother's no longer religious and he was in fact arguing the other corner that deism is separate
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  • Re: Is deism a subset of atheism?
     Reply #4 - April 12, 2011, 01:49 PM
    Jesus Islame stop deconverting your family you bastard. Your poor mother  mysmilie_977
  • Re: Is deism a subset of atheism?
     Reply #5 - April 12, 2011, 01:50 PM
    Believing that there is a grand architect of the universe is not atheism.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Is deism a subset of atheism?
     Reply #6 - April 12, 2011, 01:52 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on April 12, 2011, 01:48 PM
    no, my brother's no longer religious ...

    your influence?
  • Re: Is deism a subset of atheism?
     Reply #7 - April 12, 2011, 01:54 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on April 12, 2011, 01:49 PM
    Jesus Islame stop deconverting your family you bastard. Your poor mother  mysmilie_977

    I really should, my poor mum is gonna get a heartattack one of these days.

    Quote from: Kenan on April 12, 2011, 01:52 PM
    your influence?

    Partly I guess

    Quote from: Ishina on April 12, 2011, 01:50 PM
    Believing that there is a grand architect of the universe is not atheism.

    Some point out that atheism is just a lack of belief in a religious i.e. personal God.
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  • Re: Is deism a subset of atheism?
     Reply #8 - April 12, 2011, 01:57 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on April 12, 2011, 01:54 PM
    Some point out that atheism is just a lack of belief in a religious i.e. personal God.

    And they'd be right according to the Oxford English dictionary definition of atheism
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  • Re: Is deism a subset of atheism?
     Reply #9 - April 12, 2011, 02:00 PM
    Do you agree with that definition of atheism?
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Is deism a subset of atheism?
     Reply #10 - April 12, 2011, 02:00 PM
    I think that's a very useful definition.
  • Re: Is deism a subset of atheism?
     Reply #11 - April 12, 2011, 02:01 PM
    I think that's a very stupid definition.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Is deism a subset of atheism?
     Reply #12 - April 12, 2011, 02:02 PM
    I think you're very stupid.
  • Re: Is deism a subset of atheism?
     Reply #13 - April 12, 2011, 02:03 PM
    Though it still isn't the definition I would use.
  • Re: Is deism a subset of atheism?
     Reply #14 - April 12, 2011, 02:04 PM
    the·ism   
    [thee-iz-uhm]
    –noun
    1.
    the belief in one god as the creator and ruler of the universe, without rejection of revelation ( distinguished from deism).
    2.
    belief in the existence of a god or gods ( opposed to atheism).


    To me atheism is simply the rejection of that^
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  • Re: Is deism a subset of atheism?
     Reply #15 - April 12, 2011, 02:06 PM
    Quote from: Prince Spinoza on April 12, 2011, 02:02 PM
    I think you're very stupid.

    Show me an atheist that believes in one or more deities, and I'll show you a theist.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Is deism a subset of atheism?
     Reply #16 - April 12, 2011, 02:08 PM
    Quote from: Ishina on April 12, 2011, 02:00 PM
    Do you agree with that definition of atheism?

    Yes, even though I am not entirely comfortable with it I use the Oxford dictionary to settle disputes like these as its a good independent source which is far better researched that my own subjective opinions.  
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  • Re: Is deism a subset of atheism?
     Reply #17 - April 12, 2011, 02:10 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on April 12, 2011, 02:08 PM
    Yes, even though I am not entirely comfortable with it I use the Oxford dictionary to settle disputes like these as its a good independent source which is far better researched that my own subjective opinions.  

    Let me just check if I understand you correctly: Are you saying some atheists believe in a god?
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Is deism a subset of atheism?
     Reply #18 - April 12, 2011, 02:15 PM
    Quote from: Ishina on April 12, 2011, 02:10 PM
    Let me just check if I understand you correctly: Are you saying some atheists believe in a god?

    I guess so - but the God here is defined as a non-religious / non-personal / perhaps even non-supernatural creator
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  • Re: Is deism a subset of atheism?
     Reply #19 - April 12, 2011, 02:16 PM
    Well I personally wouldn't call someone who believes in a deity an 'atheist', I'm just saying it would be a useful definition. My own apostasy/epiphany came when I realised that Allah was a personal god, and I think one of the biggest shocks to religious belief is the realisation that a creator of the universe doesn't necessitate there being any divine plan for humans, and the assumption that god has any human attributes is just absurd.

    Though I do actually think postulating the existence of an intelligent being as the origin of existence is absurd in itself.
  • Re: Is deism a subset of atheism?
     Reply #20 - April 12, 2011, 02:16 PM
    Wouldn't it be more apt for deism to be classified as a subset of theism?
    19:46   <zizo>: hugs could pimp u into sex

    Quote from: yeezevee
    well I am neither ex-Muslim nor absolute 100% Non-Muslim.. I am fucking Zebra

  • Re: Is deism a subset of atheism?
     Reply #21 - April 12, 2011, 02:17 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on April 12, 2011, 02:15 PM
    I guess so - a non-religious / non-personal creator that is


    No, that's deists. Atheists don't believe in any God at all.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Is deism a subset of atheism?
     Reply #22 - April 12, 2011, 02:18 PM
    Quote from: GodIsNotGreat on April 12, 2011, 02:16 PM
    Wouldn't it be more apt for deism to be classified as a subset of theism?


    I think so.
  • Re: Is deism a subset of atheism?
     Reply #23 - April 12, 2011, 02:23 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on April 12, 2011, 02:15 PM
    I guess so - but the God here is defined as a non-religious / non-personal / perhaps even non-supernatural creator

    In deism it is defined that way, yes, broadly. But not in atheism.

    Gods don't feature amongst the things atheists believe in.

    Quote from: Prince Spinoza on April 12, 2011, 02:16 PM
    Well I personally wouldn't call someone who believes in a deity an 'atheist', I'm just saying it would be a useful definition.

    Useful how? And to whom?
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Is deism a subset of atheism?
     Reply #24 - April 12, 2011, 02:30 PM
    For me, deism was like a stop-gap ideology for ex-theists of the 19th century before Darwin's theory of evolution came along and basically ended the need for god.

    But it is far from a subset of atheism. There are probably overlaps, once we get into the whole "Einsteinian god" territory, but what is this obsession with categorising people...  Huh?
  • Re: Is deism a subset of atheism?
     Reply #25 - April 12, 2011, 02:32 PM
    I am not entirely comfortable with it either, the reason I started the thread:

    according to oxford dictionaries
    Quote
    theism=belief in a God(s)
    atheism=non-belief in a God(s)
    deism=belief in the existence of a supreme being, specifically of a creator who does not intervene in the universe.

    http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/search?searchType=dictionary&isWritersAndEditors=true&searchUri=All&q=god&contentVersion=WORLD

    &

    God=

    Quote
    God…(in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being…

    God…(in certain other religions) a superhuman being or spirit worshipped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity…


    So according to the above definitions I hope you can see how it is possible to believe in a creator as an atheist, and thus deism can be seen as a subset of atheism.
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  • Re: Is deism a subset of atheism?
     Reply #26 - April 12, 2011, 02:32 PM
    Quote from: Prince Spinoza on April 12, 2011, 02:00 PM
    I think that's a very useful definition.


    useful for what exactly? a lack of belief implies no positive or negative assertion - merely indifference and apathy w.r.t to a certain set of concepts.
  • Re: Is deism a subset of atheism?
     Reply #27 - April 12, 2011, 02:34 PM
    useful in terms of forging alliances & making arguments much easier with theists (no need to even bother disproving the existance of a creator, just their religion)
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  • Re: Is deism a subset of atheism?
     Reply #28 - April 12, 2011, 02:34 PM
    Useful in that on most of the salient points in a religion vs atheism debate, atheists and deists are on the same side.
  • Re: Is deism a subset of atheism?
     Reply #29 - April 12, 2011, 02:37 PM
    We posted that at the same time  grin12
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