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Theme Changer

 Topic: hi! new ex-muslim from London

 (Read 17336 times)
  • Previous page 1 2 34 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: hi! new ex-muslim from London
     Reply #60 - April 11, 2011, 09:50 PM

    This transcendence - why Islam specifically, & not Buddhism instead?  I think you & z10 could have a mutually rewarding conversation on it, as you both seem to be on a similar plane even if you have both realised alternative outcomes.  btw which forums do you visit?  have you ever looked into sufism?

    You are insulting IsLame., Common z10 is way low over that over boarded Hassan1

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: hi! new ex-muslim from London
     Reply #61 - April 11, 2011, 10:11 PM


    I certainly have no predefined set of proofs I can whip out at a moment’s notice. The study of religion is a lofty endeavour. It is contemplative and soul-searching; challenging and vigorous; inspiring and humbling. The outcome is not a set of falsification tests, nor a codified list of irrefutable truths, but an all-encompassing and transcendent feeling. A feeling that cannot necessarily be communicated, or, for that matter, tested in a laboratory.

    This type of reasoning, if it can be described as such, irks sceptics considerably. And no doubt, one could make this case for any religion or set of beliefs under the sun. "I have a feeling" is not, in and of itself, an argument that will convince many, and it will no doubt leave you open to accusations of irrationality. That said, the study of religion (and, for me, Islam) does provide one with a sense of certainty and solace which cannot be acquired through superficial readings of a few religious texts. Some may decry this as fundamentally illogical, but it is certainly not unreasonable to accept the veracity of something based on in-depth study. The reign of quantity, and our obsession with numbers and quantitatively deduced facts, has rendered impotent our ability to ponder and contemplate. Islam appeals to my fitrah.


    I have to say, I respect this position. And I respect the way that Hassan has defended his faith without trying to enforce its validity upon us all. It leaves very little room for argument.

    But I also agree with IsLame. Islam's gain in this particular case, is a loss to Buddhism or Humanism or whatever else Hassan would have found solace and enlightenment within.

    Hi
  • Re: hi! new ex-muslim from London
     Reply #62 - April 11, 2011, 10:16 PM

    Sam Harris: “It is often thought that non-believers like myself are closed to some remarkable experiences that religious people have. That’s not true. There is nothing that prevents an atheist experiencing self-transcending love and ecstasy, and rapture, and awe […] What atheists don’t tend to do is make unjustifiable and unjustified claims about the nature of the cosmos or the divine origin of certain books on the basis of those experiences.”

    We can fruitfully explore this higher terrain of human experience without taking a further step and declaring our allegiance to this religion or that religion.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: hi! new ex-muslim from London
     Reply #63 - April 11, 2011, 10:22 PM

    Sam Harris: “It is often thought that non-believers like myself are closed to some remarkable experiences that religious people have. That’s not true. There is nothing that prevents an atheist experiencing self-transcending love and ecstasy, and rapture, and awe […] What atheists don’t tend to do is make unjustifiable and unjustified claims about the nature of the cosmos or the divine origin of certain books on the basis of those experiences.”

    We can fruitfully explore this higher terrain of human experience without taking a further step and declaring our allegiance to this religion or that religion.

    Absolutely.

    So:

    This transcendence - why Islam specifically, & not Buddhism instead?

    Why not atheism?

    I have to say, I respect this position. And I respect the way that Hassan has defended his faith without trying to enforce its validity upon us all. It leaves very little room for argument.

    Really? Islam is not simply only about 'transcendence' is it? It is a totalitarian belief system (in its predominant form) that encroaches on every aspect of life of those who live under it - be it Muslims or non-Muslims.
  • Re: hi! new ex-muslim from London
     Reply #64 - April 11, 2011, 10:37 PM

    ^^It seems it is for Hassan, at least. Lets see if you can make inroads into his faith through rationality. I doubt it.

    Hi
  • Re: hi! new ex-muslim from London
     Reply #65 - April 11, 2011, 10:50 PM

    ^^It seems it is for Hassan, at least. Lets see if you can make inroads into his faith through rationality. I doubt it.

    It's unclear what exactly Islam means for Hassan1, how he relates to allah and how he interprets Quran. Point is that when one chooses Islam in its predominant form one also takes aboard alls sorts of unsavoury stuff apart from 'transcendence'.
  • Re: hi! new ex-muslim from London
     Reply #66 - April 11, 2011, 11:00 PM

    I'm with you there Kenan. I hope one day Hassan will be also.

    Hi
  • Re: hi! new ex-muslim from London
     Reply #67 - April 11, 2011, 11:10 PM

    Both Dawkins and Naik share a uni-directional mindset. An utter and complete belief in themselves that trumps all else; they both have superstar status, and revel in it. Both have legions of hardcore groupies who quote and propagate their work tirelessly. Both have set up foundations, focused on spreading the ‘good’ word to all those who want to receive it. Both encourage people to donate to their cause. Dawkins, and his band of merry athesists, have even gone as far as setting up the unintentionally hilarious “Non believers giving Aid” foundation; presumably to rival the impressive charitable donations made to religious charities. But I digress. .


    Its not only intellectual fraudulence and mendacity to equate Dawkins with Naik, it is also morally depraved.


    Welcome to the echo chamber of Islam.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: hi! new ex-muslim from London
     Reply #68 - April 12, 2011, 01:36 PM



    Yes. There are many Athesists out there, I am sure, who deserve to be listened to. Whose views are based on something more fundamentally tangible than what superstar atheists churn out. So when I read people citing “The God Delusion” as a reason for their disbelief, I just cannot take them seriously. I cringe, because they haven’t even scratched the surface of theology and philosophy. It is a hallmark of the era we live in that trash philosophy of the type espoused by Dawkins can be held in such high regard by so many people. It would be funny, if it wasn't so depressing


    Which of his arguments against god's existence do you find 'cringeworthy'?
  • Re: hi! new ex-muslim from London
     Reply #69 - April 12, 2011, 01:38 PM

    I have to say, I respect this position. And I respect the way that Hassan has defended his faith without trying to enforce its validity upon us all. It leaves very little room for argument.



    Because it has no validity.
  • Re: hi! new ex-muslim from London
     Reply #70 - April 12, 2011, 02:32 PM

    Both Dawkins and Naik share a uni-directional mindset. An utter and complete belief in themselves that trumps all else; they both have superstar status, and revel in it. Both have legions of hardcore groupies who quote and propagate their work tirelessly. Both have set up foundations, focused on spreading the ‘good’ word to all those who want to receive it. Both encourage people to donate to their cause. Dawkins, and his band of merry athesists, have even gone as far as setting up the unintentionally hilarious “Non believers giving Aid” foundation; presumably to rival the impressive charitable donations made to religious charities. But I digress. .


    Yes. There are many Athesists out there, I am sure, who deserve to be listened to. Whose views are based on something more fundamentally tangible than what superstar atheists churn out. So when I read people citing “The God Delusion” as a reason for their disbelief, I just cannot take them seriously. I cringe, because they haven’t even scratched the surface of theology and philosophy. It is a hallmark of the era we live in that trash philosophy of the type espoused by Dawkins can be held in such high regard by so many people. It would be funny, if it wasn't so depressing

    I certainly have no predefined set of proofs I can whip out at a moment’s notice. The study of religion is a lofty endeavour. It is contemplative and soul-searching; challenging and vigorous; inspiring and humbling. The outcome is not a set of falsification tests, nor a codified list of irrefutable truths, but an all-encompassing and transcendent feeling. A feeling that cannot necessarily be communicated, or, for that matter, tested in a laboratory.

    This type of reasoning, if it can be described as such, irks sceptics considerably. And no doubt, one could make this case for any religion or set of beliefs under the sun. "I have a feeling" is not, in and of itself, an argument that will convince many, and it will no doubt leave you open to accusations of irrationality. That said, the study of religion (and, for me, Islam) does provide one with a sense of certainty and solace which cannot be acquired through superficial readings of a few religious texts. Some may decry this as fundamentally illogical, but it is certainly not unreasonable to accept the veracity of something based on in-depth study. The reign of quantity, and our obsession with numbers and quantitatively deduced facts, has rendered impotent our ability to ponder and contemplate. Islam appeals to my fitrah.

    ghassan the quran lends iitself far too easily to superficial and literalist interpretation misleading billions over the years.  Was this by design or error?
  • Re: hi! new ex-muslim from London
     Reply #71 - April 12, 2011, 02:41 PM

    Srry the spellcheck on my phone. Keeps turning ur name to ghassan
  • Re: hi! new ex-muslim from London
     Reply #72 - April 12, 2011, 02:42 PM

    I was wondering who ghassan was

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: hi! new ex-muslim from London
     Reply #73 - April 12, 2011, 02:50 PM

    Hassan please stop posting from your phone. i'm usually eager to read your posts but nowadays i'm sat there trying to figure out what the hell you're going on about! fancy fones aren't for dorks like you and me  Tongue

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: hi! new ex-muslim from London
     Reply #74 - April 12, 2011, 02:55 PM

    Srry the spellcheck on my phone. Keeps turning ur name to ghassan

    Which phone are you using?
  • Re: hi! new ex-muslim from London
     Reply #75 - April 12, 2011, 02:57 PM

    Lol sorry guys actually i'm gonna take a break from the forum. Posting with my left thumb is a pain
  • Re: hi! new ex-muslim from London
     Reply #76 - April 12, 2011, 03:11 PM

    Which phone are you using?

    motorola defy - android
  • Re: hi! new ex-muslim from London
     Reply #77 - April 12, 2011, 03:14 PM

    Plus laptop not working
  • Re: hi! new ex-muslim from London
     Reply #78 - April 12, 2011, 03:50 PM

    What's wrong with it? I though that macs were guaranteed to be 100% fault free.
  • Re: hi! new ex-muslim from London
     Reply #79 - April 12, 2011, 04:03 PM

    Prob with screen and since i can't work have shelved it
  • Re: hi! new ex-muslim from London
     Reply #80 - April 12, 2011, 04:09 PM

    Are you planning on buying a replacement?
  • Re: hi! new ex-muslim from London
     Reply #81 - April 12, 2011, 04:19 PM

    My work will provide it
  • Re: hi! new ex-muslim from London
     Reply #82 - April 12, 2011, 05:33 PM

    @ streetray
    FACT: Naik = fucker (in Arabic). This fact alone speaks volumes, don't you think?

    Zakir Naik is of Maharashtrian origin. In Marathi langauge, the word naik means leader. It is very common surname in Maharashtra. Naiks are mostly Hindu. Most likely some one in his family converted to Islam and kept the same family name.

    वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
    Entire World is One Family
    سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
  • Re: hi! new ex-muslim from London
     Reply #83 - April 17, 2011, 05:48 PM

    You couldn't be more wrong. Naik is a religious fundamentalist who 'knows' he is right because he read that in a religious book of his 'choice'. Nothing could possibly budge him from his belief because his belief is not something he acquired through reasoning  - it simply appeals to him. Even when evidence is presented that contradicts the truth claims of the religion he was indoctrinated into as a child, he would simply cast them aside.

    Dawkins is a scientist. He doesn't 'believe' in evolution or any other provable fact because of its holy or sacred nature but simply because there is an overwhelming evidence which supports his views. If for example evolution was to be proven as wrong he would immediately abandon it - no fundamentalist would ever do that. You see, when a scientific principle is wrong somebody eventually discovers the mistake and offers a better explanation based on evidence that other people can independently verify. That is how science works and is the exact opposite of how immutable religion works.
    Exactly! You have an emotional attachment to it. But that doesn't make it any more true than any other religion.


    I don't want to dwell too much on the relative merits and demerits of Dawkins' beliefs. What I would say, however, is that in many academic circles, there is a pre-commitment to certain worldviews. These worldviews are dogmatically adhered to and, in many cases, reinforced retrospectively. It is, for instance, no coincidence that many 'sceptics' oof yesteryear flocked to Darwin's then nascent and uproven theories because it gave scientific backing to their pre-existing belief in the totality of materialism. This was at a time when Darwin's theory wasn't nearly as widely accepted as it is now.

    Even a cursory analysis will show how feverishly evolution is defended by many in academia. If it isn't a belief, then it is mighty close to becoming one.


    ghassan the quran lends iitself far too easily to superficial and literalist interpretation misleading billions over the years.  Was this by design or error?


    There are numerous prophetic traditions, and indeed ayahs in the quran, which imply that there are multiple ways in which to interpret Quranic verses. One tradition suggests that there are seven meanings to each verse. Another suggests there is an inward and and outward meaning to the verses. That aside, the fact that the Quran, in whatever way you choose to read it, has appealed to billions throughout the recent history of mankind is testament to its longevity and brilliance.

    Coming back to your question; it is quite conceivable that different interpretations exist, and have existed, to show the plurality Islam has to offer. Or to confirm its appeal as a book which speaks to the professor and the idiot alike.


    ...nor shall they encompass aught of His knowledge, except as He willeth...
  • Re: hi! new ex-muslim from London
     Reply #84 - April 17, 2011, 06:08 PM

    w
  • Re: hi! new ex-muslim from London
     Reply #85 - April 17, 2011, 06:22 PM

    Quote
    Even a cursory analysis will show how feverishly evolution is defended by many in academia. If it isn't a belief, then it is mighty close to becoming one.


    Should it be a more lackadaisical defense?

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: hi! new ex-muslim from London
     Reply #86 - April 17, 2011, 07:37 PM

    d

  • Re: hi! new ex-muslim from London
     Reply #87 - April 17, 2011, 07:41 PM

    That aside, the fact that the Quran, in whatever way you choose to read it, has appealed to billions throughout the recent history of mankind is testament to its longevity and brilliance.


    No, its testament to ignorance, prolonged cult-like brainwashing, and fear through the death and murder taboo attached to any criticism of it, not forgetting of course the tribal instincts that debase individuals to shilling for its barbarism and inanity.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: hi! new ex-muslim from London
     Reply #88 - April 17, 2011, 07:48 PM

    Darwinism is a religion.

    And that means Islam is an equally respectable belief. grin12

    "Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
    - Robert Louis Stevenson
  • Re: hi! new ex-muslim from London
     Reply #89 - April 17, 2011, 08:12 PM

    d
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