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Theme Changer

 Topic: Islam: The World's Fastest Shrinking Religion

 (Read 7380 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Islam: The World's Fastest Shrinking Religion
     OP - March 14, 2011, 09:38 PM

    This news is from a few years ago, but I found it to be a highly informative piece. grin12

    Full story

    Quote
    Bloomfield—March 10—Jeffrey Lang, converted Muslim and prolific author, spoke passionately this past Saturday night at the Bloomfield Muslim Unity Center on the need and methods to keep our children within the fold of Islam.

    About 300 people packed the banquet facilities at the Bloomfield Muslim Unity Center, by far the biggest crowd this reporter has seen at the facility.

    Lang, professor of mathematics at the University of Kansas, is an important intellectual voice in the American Muslim community. Lang was born January 30, 1954 in Bridgeport, Connecticut. Born Catholic, he went through several phases of belief through his sincere quest for belief in the truth; during periods of agnosticism and atheism, before he accepted Islam, he had recurring and comforting dreams of himself performing the communal prayer—this was eventually to become reality, as Professor Lang did in fact become a Muslim in the early 80s.

    Lang has written four books addressing the core problem the American Muslim community faces, that of the disaffection of American Muslim youths and converts with what they see of the practice of Islam in their local communities and mosques. His books include Struggling to Surrender (1994), Even Angels Ask: A Journey to Islam in America (1997), and Losing My Religion: A Call for Help (2004).

    While Islam may be the fastest-growing religion in America, he said, it may also be the fastest-shrinking. He began his speech with an engaging and essential statement, that while perhaps 80% of Muslims in the United States are native-born, either coming to Islam through conversion or birth to Muslim parents, the population at any communal mosque service has only a minimal percentage of such native Muslims—typically even less than 1% of the active membership in most mosques. Therefore, “by the most essential measure,” our situation is very bleak. The main purpose of his speech was to describe what has brought about the disaffection on the part of those who have left their mosques in droves, so that the community can redress the grievances that drive people away from the mosques.

    The professor explained the fundamental process by which young Muslims distanced themselves from the religion—as they grew up they had many deeply painful and viscerally felt experiences relating to their own Muslim community, which led them in later life to a visceral distaste for the community. Converts did not at first have this visceral reaction to problems in the community, but developed it over time. One experience at a time, the community delicately hammers away at converts, until they feel at a visceral level unwelcome, and—frequently—leave.

    Lang’s essential solution lay in refraining as Muslims from imposing questionable “Shari’ah” interpretations on newcomers to Islam. Confronted with just the five pillars, he said, many people will already be unwilling to change their lives to fit Islam. If Muslims approach newcomers to Islam with immensely heavy and debatable “Islamic law” they will drive away the remaining people who would have been willing to practice Islam–they would have prayed, made hajj, abstained from what is plainly haram.

    Lang explained that his interest in the subject began about two decades ago, when a brother at his local mosque, after they prayed ‘isha together, explained in tears that, “Brothers, I lost him—I have lost my son.” Not to death, but to a life without real devotion to Islam. This story, of course, has been repeated many thousands of times in other American Muslim families since then. In reaction to this event, Lang wrote his first book about Islam, Struggling to Surrender—he received many letters from other converts, who he said had followed a similar trajectory to his own on becoming Muslim. They accepted Islam with spiritual ecstasy, went through a period of extremism as they learned the extreme views of the religion from the most vocal members of their communities, then—many times—went out of the religion as they were faced with cultural barriers and inconsistencies in the way that Islam was portrayed to them.

    Under pressure from the Muslims he knew to not ask the questions that had originally brought him to Islam, he wrote Even Angels Ask, about the basic fundamental challenges to belief that many born Muslims find so disturbing that they really cannot face, but which he said must be faced in dealing with young American Muslims whether they are converts or 2nd generation Muslims in America. In reaction to this book he started to uncover a great hidden mass of people within America, second-generation Muslims, disaffected by what they saw of Islam in their homes and communities, unable to find answers to the basic questions of belief that they encountered as they grew up in a secular but—in many ways—just society. In reaction to their letters and emails, he wrote Losing My Religion—based on opening the basic issues that came up in his correspondence with these youth who found themselves confronted with the impossibility of opening fundamental issues with their home communities (parents and imams). When these youth tried to bring up fundamental issues with parents or imams, they were called “kafir” or sometimes instructed to hide their disaffection from the community they were in—to hide their fundamental questions of belief for the sake of appearances in their parents’ social community.

    Lang said that growing up, Muslim youths go through a process of imbibing the ethos of America at a deep level, building their fundamental assumptions on the American ethos which many times, he pointed out, is fairer than their own communities (not to say Islam) on issues important to them—for instance race. Living astride two cultures, they grow up going through a psychological process of trying to accept only those parts of each culture that do not conflict with the parts of the other—and they end up with fundamental questions about the assumptions and lifestyles of their parents.

    The essential questions that our own Muslim people face and question within Islam are the following, in descending order of their impact on disaffected youths: (1) the treatment of women in American Muslim communities, (2) the cultural chasm between mosque culture and the culture of the outside world, (3) in Lang’s words “problems with traditional theology,” (4) the perceived race problem of the Muslim community in America (which he said caused many converts to leave the community).


    "Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
    - Robert Louis Stevenson
  • Re: Islam: The World's Fastest Shrinking Religion
     Reply #1 - March 14, 2011, 10:13 PM

    This news is from a few years ago, but I found it to be a highly informative piece. grin12

    Full story


    Quote
    While Islam may be the fastest-growing religion in America, he said, it may also be the fastest-shrinking.

     what kind of NONSENSE is that??  Fastest growing and fastest shirking  rubbish.. What is important is net growth..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcNOaePZT68

    His mathematical logic and rationale is screwed up., He should note that  Facial hair and pubic hair also grows fast., So what??   .. take a Gillette blade you can clean them up in minutes.  What is that silly growth or people converting or de-converting  from Islam has to do with Islam, Philosophy of Islam??  

    There are plenty of fools with academic degrees  on this earth..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Islam: The World's Fastest Shrinking Religion
     Reply #2 - March 14, 2011, 10:37 PM

    Yeezevee never change man never change. 

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Islam: The World's Fastest Shrinking Religion
     Reply #3 - March 15, 2011, 07:54 AM

    Yeezevee never change man never change.  

      No..  No i do change if there is a good reason to change deusvult .  And i really don't care who is in what religions and who goes from where to where..  but it is hard for a person like me to see a fellow like this  who happened to be a professor in mathematics speaking rubbish to proselytize a religion.

    http://www.discoveringislam.org/dr_jeffrey_lang.htm

    Often I wonder whether this guy here http://www.math.ku.edu/people/faculty/jeffrey-lang.html  is same as that guy above and whether such people have the abilities to read a book, comprehend it  & analyze  and understand what is written in it

    Quote
    Dr. Lang met Mahmoud Qandeel, a regal looking Saudi student who attracted the attention of the entire class the moment he walked in.  When Lang asked a question about medical research, Qandeel answered the question in perfect English and with great self assurance.  Everyone knew Qandeel – the  mayor, the police chief and the common people.  Together the professor and the student went to all the glittering places where “there was no joy or happiness, only laughter.” Yet at the end, Qandeel surprisingly gave him a copy of the Quran and some books on Islam.  Lang read the Quran on his own, found his way to the student-run prayer hall at the university, and basically surrendered without much struggle.  He was conquered by the Quran.  The first two chapters are an account of that encounter and it is a fascinating one.

    “Painters can make the eyes of a portrait appear to be following you from one place to another, but which author can write a scripture that anticipates your daily vicissitudes?...  Each night I would formulate questions and objections and somehow discover the answer the next day.  It seemed that the author was reading my ideas and writing in the appropriate lines in time for my next reading.  I have met myself in its pages...”

    Lang performs the daily five-time prayers regularly and finds much spiritual satisfaction.  He finds the Fajr (pre-dawn) prayer as one of the most beautiful and moving rituals in Islam.

    To the question how he finds it so captivating when the recitation of the Quran is in Arabic, which is totally foreign to him, he responds; “Why is a baby comforted by his mother’s voice?”  He said reading the Quran gave him a great deal of comfort and strength in difficult times.  From there on, faith was a matter of practice for Lang’s spiritual growth.

    On the other hand, Lang pursued a career in mathematics.  He received his master’s and doctoral degrees from Purdue University.  Lang said that he had always been fascinated by mathematics. “Math is logical.  It consists of using facts and figures to find concrete answers,” Lang said.  “That is the way my mind works, and it is frustrating when I deal with things that do not have concrete answerers.”  Having a mind that accepts ideas on their factual merit makes believing in a religion difficult because most religions require acceptance by faith, he said.  Islam appeals to man’s reasoning, he said.

    As faculty advisor for the Muslim Student Association, Lang said he viewed himself as the liaison between the students and their universities.  He gets approval from university authorities to hold Islamic lectures.  “The object of being their faculty advisor is to help them get their needs met as far as adjusting to the American culture and to procedures of the university.  They appreciate the opportunity to have misconceptions corrected,” he said.

    Lang married a Saudi Muslim woman, Raika, 12 years ago. Lang has written several Islamic books which are best sellers among the Muslim community in the US.  One of his important books is “Even Angels ask; A Journey to Islam in America”.  In this book, Dr. Lang shares with his readers the many insights that have unfolded for him through his self discovery and progress within the religion of Islam.


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Islam: The World's Fastest Shrinking Religion
     Reply #4 - March 15, 2011, 09:02 AM

    Lang’s essential solution lay in refraining as Muslims from imposing questionable “Shari’ah” interpretations on newcomers to Islam. Confronted with just the five pillars, he said, many people will already be unwilling to change their lives to fit Islam. If Muslims approach newcomers to Islam with immensely heavy and debatable “Islamic law” they will drive away the remaining people who would have been willing to practice Islam–they would have prayed, made hajj, abstained from what is plainly haram.


    In other words, lie to them until they are neck deep in and hopefully burned enough bridges that they'll stay and keep up the Ummah numbers and in return, keep spreading the dawah.

    Dawah-ists are lying, bullshitting snake-oil salesmen.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Islam: The World's Fastest Shrinking Religion
     Reply #5 - March 15, 2011, 09:18 AM

     Dawah-ist are just looking to fill the monthly quota Allah set for them. Allah= CEO, Dawash-ist = Slave labour.

    Allah takes all the credit while you take all the blame. Life a bitch and so is Allah.

    Through Logic, truth can be ascertained.
  • Re: Islam: The World's Fastest Shrinking Religion
     Reply #6 - March 15, 2011, 10:06 AM

    I agree with my friend yeezevee, how can it be the fastest but most shrinking? makes no sense.

    Why does the Islamic world never publish to us the figures of Muslims who leave the faith in their respected countries? Why does the Islamic world stay silent on such issues?

    Its all political sheer madness and hypocrisy. If a Non Muslim allows his daughter to marry a Muslim male and blackmail her to convert to Islam, then why cant a Muslim woman be allowed to marry a Non-Muslim man?

    How come, they become violent and scared when they hear one or two people in their city have converted to christianity for example, they are they met by lynch mobs and protestors if somebody decides to leave Islam?

    Muslim world is a corrupted, backward and twisted part of the world, I am happy to live amongst fellow agnostics and tolarant people of all walks of life.

    Mr Lang, obviously is blinded for his love of his Saudi lady, Obviously, she must have introduced him to this Wahabi non-sense. Wahabism/Salafism is a disease that can control even the sane-minded people into destruction.

    The Ideology of Dawah, which is fuelled by Saudi Dollars, is destructive, but never challenged.

    I have not yet seen our agnostic community take these guys head on, as we know, most of these dawahist are extremely violented and ideologically driven to the point where they think they are walking in the path of total truths.

    Dawahist use colourful and modern images on their leaflets, especially the ones about woman's rights etc, but why dont they highlight what Islam says about women, that they are lower than a man, that you are allowed to beat them and lets not forget what Islam says about women who do not have sex with their husbands, that angels will curse them all night(Rape).

    Dawahists exploit poorer working class areas, they deceive people with a false light, have you not noticed that the most radical are those who conver to Islam.





  • Re: Islam: The World's Fastest Shrinking Religion
     Reply #7 - March 15, 2011, 01:34 PM

    Quote
    Why does the Islamic world never publish to us the figures of Muslims who leave the faith in their respected countries? Why does the Islamic world stay silent on such issues?

    No such thing as an ex-Muslim.

    19:46   <zizo>: hugs could pimp u into sex

    Quote from: yeezevee
    well I am neither ex-Muslim nor absolute 100% Non-Muslim.. I am fucking Zebra

  • Re: Islam: The World's Fastest Shrinking Religion
     Reply #8 - March 15, 2011, 01:57 PM

    There is still cause to be wary, though. Political Islam is still well organised and still pushing for constituency and council positions. It's quality, not quantity, we ought to be wary of.

    Not that I'm entirely against Muslim politicians any more or less than any creed of politician, but they ought to get the job because they are qualified for the position, because they have experience in administration, not because the fantasy creature that ancient clerics and zealots decided to name Allah deserves representation in government.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Islam: The World's Fastest Shrinking Religion
     Reply #9 - March 15, 2011, 03:34 PM



    I really dislike that guy from the DeenShow. What's his name, is that Eddy?
    What a horrible interviewer. What's that bullshit at 8:30, trying to fish some bad views on atheists out of Lang "as an atheist, how did you live your life", "who did you call to when you hit rock bottom?"
    Son of a bitch.

    <dust>: i love tea!!!
    <dust>: milky tea
    <three>: soooo gentle for my neck (from the inside)
    <dust>: mm
    <three>: it's definitely not called neck
    <dust>: lol
    <three>: what's the word i'm looking for
    <dust>: throat
  • Re: Islam: The World's Fastest Shrinking Religion
     Reply #10 - March 15, 2011, 03:57 PM

    I really dislike that guy from the DeenShow. What's his name, is that Eddy?
    What a horrible interviewer. What's that bullshit at 8:30, trying to fish some bad views on atheists out of Lang "as an atheist, how did you live your life", "who did you call to when you hit rock bottom?"
    Son of a bitch.

    yes.. that is brother Eddy., But hating such people helps no one. Analyzing and understanding of his words + his life and his analysis of Islam will help.

    well jail in the young age.. Islam in Jail.. tough life will push such people in to Islam., And if they like Islam , Join Islam there is nothing wrong in it.  What all I want is freedom to discuss openly and put Islam where it belongs three44..

    Watch the Boxer the brother eddie., what is up with these FAILED boxers, they all go in to Islam..lol..

    http://wn.com/How_Eddie_of_TheDeenShow_came_to_Islam

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Islam: The World's Fastest Shrinking Religion
     Reply #11 - March 15, 2011, 05:10 PM

    I didn't say I dislike him for being muslim.
    There's nothing wrong in expressing his beliefs. However, I don't appreciate (thus dislike) how he portrays atheism as something bad.

    <dust>: i love tea!!!
    <dust>: milky tea
    <three>: soooo gentle for my neck (from the inside)
    <dust>: mm
    <three>: it's definitely not called neck
    <dust>: lol
    <three>: what's the word i'm looking for
    <dust>: throat
  • Re: Islam: The World's Fastest Shrinking Religion
     Reply #12 - March 15, 2011, 05:38 PM

    In other words, lie to them until they are neck deep in and hopefully burned enough bridges that they'll stay and keep up the Ummah numbers and in return, keep spreading the dawah.

    Yes, in order for a religion like Islam to survive - it requires its members to be kept humbled.

    Most of us are familiar with how this works - circumvention, flattery, half-truths.

    Mr Lang, obviously is blinded for his love of his Saudi lady, Obviously, she must have introduced him to this Wahabi non-sense. Wahabism/Salafism is a disease that can control even the sane-minded people into destruction.

    The Ideology of Dawah, which is fuelled by Saudi Dollars, is destructive, but never challenged.

    He isn't a Wahhabi.

    You were too quick to judge and make rants, most of which weren't relevant.

    I really dislike that guy from the DeenShow. What's his name, is that Eddy?
    What a horrible interviewer. What's that bullshit at 8:30, trying to fish some bad views on atheists out of Lang "as an atheist, how did you live your life", "who did you call to when you hit rock bottom?"
    Son of a bitch.

    I saw what Eddy was up to.

    All he got out of Lang was that they were "arrogant", which sounds about right.

    He pressed Lang to say more, which followed with momentary silence.

    Even better yet, near the end of the interview, Eddy asked Lang to give advice to atheists, to which he replied with "Keep on doing what you're doing".

    And as usual, he had to conclude the interview with shameless advertising. He said that if you're an atheist, go to The Deen Show website. Cheesy

    "Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
    - Robert Louis Stevenson
  • Re: Islam: The World's Fastest Shrinking Religion
     Reply #13 - March 15, 2011, 05:48 PM

    Putting numbers on Islamic populations in a non-islamic centered society is impossible to any productive standard because of the revolving door/ believing sharade that Islam brings. Too many variables, both long and short term.

    As we see on this forum alone, plenty of people have to pretend to be muslims, hardly considered themselves muslims to begin with or became one but abruptly left...and I don't think any questionnaire can provide the required level of anonymity, national questioning and continuous repetition of the study that would be needed to gain any valuable insight.
  • Re: Islam: The World's Fastest Shrinking Religion
     Reply #14 - March 15, 2011, 10:25 PM

    It's not so much about statistics as it is about apostasy being regarded as a reality for people.

    "Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
    - Robert Louis Stevenson
  • Re: Islam: The World's Fastest Shrinking Religion
     Reply #15 - March 16, 2011, 07:31 AM

    Yes, in order for a religion like Islam to survive - it requires its members to be kept humbled.

    Most of us are familiar with how this works - circumvention, flattery, half-truths.


    Its not just that. Its how even 'non extremist' Islam inculcates a self loathing and self hatred in the convert, so he considers his or her origin to be jahil, barbaric, dirty, immoral, untrue. And so they are psychologically conditioned to hate what they came from. In doing that, a boundary is breached across which it can be difficult to return. It can take decades to recover from that white hot loathing, and physical actual bridges may have been burned - family rejected, friends disowned. So they have nothing left to go back to. When marriage is involved, especially of a woman, she is even more vulnerable and bonded.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Islam: The World's Fastest Shrinking Religion
     Reply #16 - March 16, 2011, 08:28 AM

    It is because, we Ex-muslims aren't politically active, neither are we conducting our own statistics. Why do you think muslims would do that?

    Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
    Islam's Last Stand (page)
    Islam's Last Stand (group)
    and many others...
  • Re: Islam: The World's Fastest Shrinking Religion
     Reply #17 - March 16, 2011, 08:45 AM

    The reason why we are not political active is because we are very vulnerable to be associated with conspriacy theories, political rivalries and bitter hate towards us.

    We need to be politically active in a neutral sense, whereby we never allow ourselves to be exploited by others.

    as Yeezeevee said, we need to be intellectually strong through our minds instead of physical might.

    However, our lives could be in stake and our families would also be harmed.

    I feel, freedom is well worth it if it brings Mankind unity and benefits.

    I would love to travel the whole world without being questioned of my beliefs.

    This is our earth not gods!
  • Re: Islam: The World's Fastest Shrinking Religion
     Reply #18 - March 16, 2011, 09:13 AM

    I didn't say I dislike him for being muslim.
    There's nothing wrong in expressing his beliefs. However, I don't appreciate (thus dislike) how he portrays atheism as something bad.

    He is a converted  lonely  Muslim who seeks attention of the crowd, And the only way he can get that in this 21st century by attacking atheism whom he think  are the smart guys  of 21st century that insults Islam by heckling Quran, Hadith and prophet of Islam from the Islamic sources.

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Islam: The World's Fastest Shrinking Religion
     Reply #19 - March 17, 2011, 11:14 AM

    The reason why we are not political active is because we are very vulnerable to be associated with conspriacy theories, political rivalries and bitter hate towards us.

    We need to be politically active in a neutral sense, whereby we never allow ourselves to be exploited by others.

    as Yeezeevee said, we need to be intellectually strong through our minds instead of physical might.

    However, our lives could be in stake and our families would also be harmed.

    I feel, freedom is well worth it if it brings Mankind unity and benefits.

    I would love to travel the whole world without being questioned of my beliefs.

    This is our earth not gods!


    I agree we should make it plain that we are not products of Zionist/CIA or other factions. But rather we stand on the pillar of science & reason. This is our most powerful platform. We can gain more credibility if we say the reasons we know religion is bullshit, without falling for the old conspiracy line.

    Through Logic, truth can be ascertained.
  • Re: Islam: The World's Fastest Shrinking Religion
     Reply #20 - April 03, 2011, 09:35 AM

    Watch the Boxer the brother eddie., what is up with these FAILED boxers, they all go in to Islam..lol..

    http://wn.com/How_Eddie_of_TheDeenShow_came_to_Islam

    Guess who I saw at the masjid last summer.

    "Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
    - Robert Louis Stevenson
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