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Theme Changer

 Topic: Karen Armstrong launches Charter of Compassion

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  • Karen Armstrong launches Charter of Compassion
     OP - February 06, 2011, 06:14 PM

    Karen Armstrong visits Pakistan - Exclusive with Huma Amir

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPB7_HtAiAI

    She speaks about Golden Rule and Islam.

    Quote
    Islam preaches compassion, peace, love: Armstrong

     
    KARACHI: Prominent scholar in religious matters and writer Karen Armstrong Sunday said that Islam preaches and promotes compassion, peace and love.

    Armstrong, the internationally known scholar on religious matters, delivered a lecture with reference to her newly published book ‘Islam and Compassion’ which was attended by a large number of students, members of civil society and literary figures.

    Speaking in the light of Quranic verses, Islamic incidents and history, Karen Armstrong said Islam promotes love, harmony, brotherhood and compassion.

    Qura’an tells you how to inculcate a virtue of being able to listen to others and that even foes could be overcome with the power of your compassionate conduct.

    On the occasion, well known businessman Amin Hashwani, presented a charter of passion.

    Later, talking to Geo News, Karen Armstrong said the violent incidents taking place in Pakistan are blotting its name in the outside world. However, she added that during her visit to Pakistan she found the people as peace loving and friendly.

    http://www.thenews.com.pk/NewsDetail.aspx?ID=10722

    good stuff good stuff watch her..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Karen Armstrong launches Charter of Compassion
     Reply #1 - February 07, 2011, 12:23 PM

    Please go and read the translation of entire chapter 9 in Quran. Multiple times. And then ask yourself what is the perpetual state Allah (as a GOD) wants you to maintain with the Pagans. Is it War or Peace? Also check these verses out:

    Qur'an (5:51) - "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."

    Allah just passed judgement against the entire Jewish and Christian community calling them unjust. Look at the world right now and compare the countries in the west with the countries in the east. Compare the Muslim World, with the unislamic United States. Where can you find better Justice?

    Qur'an (5:80) - "You will see many of them befriending those who disbelieve; certainly evil is that which their souls have sent before for them, that Allah became displeased with them and in chastisement shall they abide." 

    Those Muslims who befriend unbelievers will abide in hell. Do you not think this is harsh and unfair. Go and read the context of these verses, and you will find all these statements are unconditional. In fact, the book of Allah claims itself to be complete and needing no Appendices, Footnotes, or external interpretation.

    Qur'an (3:28) - "Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them..." 

    This last part means that the Muslim is allowed to feign friendship if it is of benefit.  Renowned scholar Ibn Kathir states that "believers are allowed to show friendship outwardly, but never inwardly." This means that your Muslim friends are not whole-heartedly your friends but just deceiving you into believing that they are your friends.

    Qur'an (3:118) - "O you who believe! do not take for intimate friends from among others than your own people, they do not fall short of inflicting loss upon you; they love what distresses you; vehement hatred has already appeared from out of their mouths, and what their breasts conceal is greater still; indeed, We have made the communications clear to you, if you will understand." 

    This verse not only warns Muslims not to take non-Muslims as friends, but it establishes the deep-seated paranoia that the rest of the world is out to get them. This paranoia is still present in the Muslims of this world, especially when they blame US for causing floods and Earthquakes by using some imaginary machine called the HAARP.

    Qur'an (9:23) - "O ye who believe! Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends if they take pleasure in disbelief rather than faith. Whoso of you taketh them for friends, such are wrong-doers" 

    Even family members are not to be taken as friends if they do not accept Islam.  (This is the mildest interpretation of this verse from the 9th Sura, which also advocates "slaying the unbeliever wherever ye find them").

    Qur'an (53:29) - "Therefore shun those who turn away from Our Message and desire nothing but the life of this world."

    What kind of GOD will shun people for not believing in Him? Belief is a personal matter and cannot be forced upon others.

    Qur'an (3:85) - "And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers."

    And yes, this is the contradicting verse to the one that says there is no compulsion in religion. Yet there is no contextual text in Quran in context of either of these verses to satisfy using QURAN ALONE as to why this contradiction occurred? For those who say this or other verses are abrogated, what can you use in QURAN itself to determine abrogated verses from active verses? Quran is complete right, and is *clear* so where is this completeness and vividness?

    Qur'an (3:10) - "(As for) those who disbelieve, surely neither their wealth nor their children shall avail them in the least against Allah, and these it is who are the fuel of the fire." 

    Those who do not believe in Muhammad are but fuel for the fire of Hell (also 66:6, 2:24. 21:98).

    Qur'an (7:44) - "The Companions of the Garden will call out to the Companions of the Fire: "We have indeed found the promises of our Lord to us true: Have you also found Your Lord's promises true?" They shall say, "Yes"; but a crier shall proclaim between them: "The curse of Allah is on the wrong-doers"  Muslims in heaven will amuse themselves by looking down on non-Muslims in Hell and mocking them while they are being tortured (see 22:19-22).

    Qur'an (1:5-7) - "Show us the straight path, The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not the (path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray"  This is a prayer that Muslims are supposed to repeat each day.  "Those who earn Thine anger" specifically refers to Jews and "those who go astray" refers to Christians (see Bukhari (12:749)).

    “Verily, as for those whom the angels take while they are wronging themselves (as they stayed among the disbelievers even though emigration was obligatory for them), they (angels) say (to them): “In what (condition) were you?” They reply: “We were weak and oppressed on the earth.” They (angels) say: “Was not the earth of Allaah spacious enough for you to emigrate therein?” Such men will find their abode in Hell — what an evil destination!” - Quran 4:97


    So which one of these is the meaningful one:

    Qur'an (3:85) - "And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers."

    OR

    Qur'an (2:256) - There is no compulsion in religion, for the right way is clearly from the wrong way. Whoever therefore rejects the forces of evil and believes in God, he has taken hold of a support most unfailing, which shall never give way, for God is All Hearing and Knowing.



    Read chapter 9 of the Quran multiple times. The first 18 verses speak for themselves:

    9:1
    A (declaration) of immunity from Allah and His Messenger, to those of the Pagans with whom ye have contracted mutual alliances:-

    9:2
    Go ye, then, for four months, backwards and forwards, (as ye will), throughout the land, but know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah (by your falsehood) but that Allah will cover with shame those who reject Him.

    9:3
    And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith.

    9:4
    (But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loveth the righteous.

    9:5
    But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

    9:6
    If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.

    9:7
    How can there be a league, before Allah and His Messenger, with the Pagans, except those with whom ye made a treaty near the sacred Mosque? As long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for Allah doth love the righteous.

    9:8
    How (can there be such a league), seeing that if they get an advantage over you, they respect not in you the ties either of kinship or of covenant? With (fair words from) their mouths they entice you, but their hearts are averse from you; and most of them are rebellious and wicked.

    9:9
    The Signs of Allah have they sold for a miserable price, and (many) have they hindered from His way: evil indeed are the deeds they have done.

    9:10
    In a Believer they respect not the ties either of kinship or of covenant! It is they who have transgressed all bounds.

    9:11
    But (even so), if they repent, establish regular prayers, and practise regular charity,- they are your brethren in Faith: (thus) do We explain the Signs in detail, for those who understand.

    9:12
    But if they violate their oaths after their covenant, and taunt you for your Faith,- fight ye the chiefs of Unfaith: for their oaths are nothing to them: that thus they may be restrained.

    9:13
    Will ye not fight people who violated their oaths, plotted to expel the Messenger, and took the aggressive by being the first (to assault) you? Do ye fear them? Nay, it is Allah Whom ye should more justly fear, if ye believe!

    9:14
    Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers,

    9:15
    And still the indignation of their hearts. For Allah will turn (in mercy) to whom He will; and Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.

    9:16
    Or think ye that ye shall be abandoned, as though Allah did not know those among you who strive with might and main, and take none for friends and protectors except Allah, His Messenger, and the (community of) Believers? But Allah is well-acquainted with (all) that ye do.

    9:17
    It is not for such as join gods with Allah, to visit or maintain the mosques of Allah while they witness against their own souls to infidelity. The works of such bear no fruit: In Fire shall they dwell.

    9:18
    The mosques of Allah shall be visited and maintained by such as believe in Allah and the Last Day, establish regular prayers, and practise regular charity, and fear none (at all) except Allah. It is they who are expected to be on true guidance.

    As per Quran do you really believe in the generalization that all Jews are misers, and Jews believe that Uzair is son of Allah?

    Quran 9:30
    The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

    The above verse is a complete lie. There are and there never were any Jews that believed that Uzair is a son of GOD.

    Read the following Tafsir regarding how Allah (Mohammed) calls the Jews Misers:

    http://www.theholybook.org/content/view/6834/2/

    Can you find me a single Jew in present or Antiquity, a single book of theirs, a single exegesis, or a single Talmud containing the claim that Uzair is son of GOD?

    Ask yourselves who is speaking following verses:

    75:1-2, 90:1, 19:64 and 37:161-166.

    Buddy, we did not all leave Islam just because we are some misguided fools. We know our stuff, and we went through the same stages of denial and reprehension, and self-cussing that anyone does when leaving their faith.

    There is a lot more to all of this. Your Religion is not true, either accept it or leave this site before you lose your faith.






    The most merciful Allah, who is more merciful than your own mortal mother, is capable of punishing you for eternity for a finite sin committed in a finite lifetime with finite knowledge, while your mother nor any living creature that is NOT a sadistic mother fucker would never commit such an act.
  • Re: Karen Armstrong launches Charter of Compassion
     Reply #2 - February 07, 2011, 12:44 PM

     Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

    Karen Armstrong.. What a joke, what misleading statements she makes..! Hasn't she read the Qur'an? Hasn't she read Saheeh-e-Bukhari?
    I am getting tired of people, projecting their own views of the universe, their own perception of human values on Islam, and loop-holing wringing and squeezing the Qur'an to see what they want to see, to interpret it in such vague far-fetched ways, to disregard all those verses calling the Kuffaar stupid animals whose abide will be hell for ever, discarding all aggresive verses, re-interpreting well-understood concepts like "KUFR" such that the majority of non-Muslims don't qualify as being kuffaar anymore..
    etc etc.. the intellectual dishonesty is baffling me time upon time again.. wacko
  • Re: Karen Armstrong launches Charter of Compassion
     Reply #3 - February 07, 2011, 01:03 PM


    She wrote a really good book on Buddha.

    Lets just say she's preaching to the converted when it comes to Islam and Mohammad.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Karen Armstrong launches Charter of Compassion
     Reply #4 - February 07, 2011, 02:57 PM

    When will this doolally David Irving of Islamic historiography stop beating about the bush and don a black curtain with an eye slit so everybody can see clearly what she is?

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Karen Armstrong launches Charter of Compassion
     Reply #5 - February 07, 2011, 03:02 PM

    When will .... everybody can see clearly what she is?

    when people take her books and her words she speaks and  rip them apart and proves her how wrong she is about Early Islam and on prophet of Islam.

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Karen Armstrong launches Charter of Compassion
     Reply #6 - February 07, 2011, 04:20 PM

    Hi everyone,

    This is my first post. some of you may recognise me as Mullah RocknRoll from Faith Freedom.Org. 

    Unfortunately for Karen Armstrong, it was her biogrpahy on Mohmmad that eventually led to my apostasy from Islam.  Believe me, prior to this, I had never read a detailed account of Mohammad's life.  Armstrong & Reza Aslan are two Islamic apologists.  One caller in youtube asked her about "verse of the sword" (9:05), and her answer was that Mohammad was at war with the pagans when the verse was revealed.  I wonder which war she was referring to?

    Thanks,
    Mullah
  • Re: Karen Armstrong launches Charter of Compassion
     Reply #7 - February 07, 2011, 07:20 PM


    Buddy, we did not all leave Islam just because we are some misguided fools. We know our stuff, and we went through the same stages of denial and reprehension, and self-cussing that anyone does when leaving their faith.

    There is a lot more to all of this. Your Religion is not true, either accept it or leave this site before you lose your faith.








    Is this directed towards yeezevee?



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Karen Armstrong launches Charter of Compassion
     Reply #8 - February 08, 2011, 02:06 AM

    Yes it is directed towards him.

    The most merciful Allah, who is more merciful than your own mortal mother, is capable of punishing you for eternity for a finite sin committed in a finite lifetime with finite knowledge, while your mother nor any living creature that is NOT a sadistic mother fucker would never commit such an act.
  • Re: Karen Armstrong launches Charter of Compassion
     Reply #9 - February 08, 2011, 11:30 AM

    Please go and read the translation of entire chapter 9 in Quran. Multiple times. And then ask yourself what is the perpetual state Allah (as a GOD) wants you to maintain with the Pagans. Is it War or Peace? Also check these verses out:

     ..........................................

    Buddy, we did not all leave Islam just because we are some misguided fools. We know our stuff, and we went through the same stages of denial and reprehension, and self-cussing that anyone does when leaving their faith.

    No..no....   I never said that guys here are "some misguided fools" Zeeman  and thank you for giving this link http://www.theholybook.org/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/    Indeed it appears to have new approach to Quran., I will read it ., I did read many translation of Quran.
    Quote

    There is a lot more to all of this. Your Religion is not true, either accept it or leave this site before you lose your faith.[/b]

    Huh!?? leave the site??  That is unfair  zeeman., why would I leave the site?  The idea of having the site like this is interacting and learning from each other. So I would like to stick around for some time learn/discuss with good folks of this forum.

    By the way I wonder whether you read a book by Dr. Allama Mohammad Iqbal??  The Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam  is a good book to read., It gives us how to understand Islam through scriptures. So  i think this is a right time to reconstruct Islamic religious thought. please read the book http://www.yespakistan.com/iqbal/reconstruction/

    As far as the verses of Quran you quoted is concerned, we can discuss it further.  I am afraid some of us may not have grasped its meaning fully as we read tits and bits of Quran.

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Karen Armstrong launches Charter of Compassion
     Reply #10 - February 08, 2011, 11:45 AM

    Thank you for the link to the Allama Iqbal book, yasawi.

    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Karen Armstrong launches Charter of Compassion
     Reply #11 - February 08, 2011, 12:44 PM

    z10 - who's the girl with the huge cock in your avatar?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Karen Armstrong launches Charter of Compassion
     Reply #12 - February 08, 2011, 12:53 PM

    Thank you for the link to the Allama Iqbal book, yasawi.

     Cheesy :  ezyzee...easy...zee.. talk to me ..zee, tell me the problems ...lol., Not only that book, I have library of books on Pro-Islam and anti-Islam that may take me 10 or so years to read those fascinating books 16th, 17th , 18th and 19th century.  I don't like the books that are after 1950s.. 

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Karen Armstrong launches Charter of Compassion
     Reply #13 - February 08, 2011, 05:24 PM

    Yes it is directed towards him.

    Are you serious? He isn't a muslim buddy..

    Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
    Islam's Last Stand (page)
    Islam's Last Stand (group)
    and many others...
  • Re: Karen Armstrong launches Charter of Compassion
     Reply #14 - February 08, 2011, 05:40 PM

    Are you serious? He isn't a muslim buddy..

    muddy is right I am not Muslim buddy.   I absolute hate Muslims but I am Islam's buddy,  So  heed muddy's advice on this buddy dear zeeman...   lol

    well on the way let us learn a bit more about Karen Armstrong..

    Karen Armstrong FRSL (born 14 November 1944) is a British author of numerous works on comparative religion, who first rose to prominence in 1993 with her highly successful A History of God. A former Roman Catholic nun, she asserts that, "All the great traditions are saying the same thing in much the same way, despite their surface differences." They each have in common, she says, an emphasis on the transcendent importance of compassion, as epitomized in the so-called Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.

    Awarded the $100,000 TED Prize in February 2008, she called for drawing up a Charter for Compassion in the spirit of the Golden Rule, to identify shared moral priorities across religious traditions, in order to foster global understanding.[1] It was unveiled in Washington, D.C. in November 2009. Signatories include Prince Hassan of Jordan, the Dalai Lama, Archbishop Desmond Tutu and Sir Richard Branson.
    Quote

    On Christianity and Islam


    In an interview with Bill Moyers, Armstrong compared Christianity to Islam, stating that "Islam is a religion of success. Unlike Christianity, which has as its main image, in the west at least, a man dying in a devastating, disgraceful, helpless death...Mohammed was not an apparent failure. He was a dazzling success, politically as well as spiritually, and Islam went from strength to strength to strength."


    Quote
    Regarding the Suicide bombings in London on July 7, 2005, Armstrong stated:

        I thought that this [the attacks] was virtually inevitable. This is a political matter. And Tony Blair had put us right on the front line by joining with former President Bush. And we were all expecting this in London. There was no great surprise.


    Quote
    Books:

        * Through the Narrow Gate (1982)
        * The First Christian: Saint Paul's Impact on Christianity (1983)
        * Beginning the World (1983)
        * Tongues of Fire: An Anthology of Religious and Poetic Experience (1985)
        * The Gospel According to Woman: Christianity's Creation of the Sex War in the West (1986)
        * Holy War: The Crusades and their Impact on Today's World (1988)
        * Muhammad: A Biography of the Prophet (1991)
        * The English Mystics of the Fourteenth Century (1991)
        * The End of Silence: Women and the Priesthood (1993)
        * A History of God (1993)
        * Jerusalem: One City, Three Faiths (1996)
        * In the Beginning: A New Interpretation of Genesis (1996)
        * Islam: A Short History (2000)
        * The Battle for God: Fundamentalism in Judaism, Christianity and Islam (2000)
        * Buddha (2001)
        * Faith After September 11 (2002)
        * The Spiral Staircase (2004)
        * A Short History of Myth (2005)
        * Muhammad: A Prophet For Our Time (2006)
        * The Great Transformation: The Beginning of Our Religious Traditions (2006) ISBN 978-037-541317-9
        * The Bible: A Biography (2007)
        * The Case for God (2009)[17]
        * Twelve Steps to a Compassionate Life (2010) ISBN 978-0307595591


    Clearly  one must realize here that she is not dumb lady ., Off course it doesn't mean she is unquestionable..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Karen Armstrong launches Charter of Compassion
     Reply #15 - February 08, 2011, 06:14 PM

    Karen Armstrong: Let's revive the Golden Rule

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhHJ4DRZNZM










    Some  Muslim Robots have this golden Rule in Their Brain

    " If you deliver infidels to Allah, Allah will deliver houris to you."
    ....Ayesha Ahmed

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Karen Armstrong launches Charter of Compassion
     Reply #16 - February 09, 2011, 05:13 PM



    Some  Muslim Robots have this golden Rule in Their Brain

    " If you deliver infidels to Allah, Allah will deliver houris to you."
    ....Ayesha Ahmed


    They take the golden too seriously with serious consequences for the rest of the world!
    Hmmmmmmm! imagine 72 virgins unpacked and ready for use,what a heavenly promise! Can't say I can really blame them,too hard to resist the temptation!Allah is smart, he knows the weakness of his followers



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Karen Armstrong launches Charter of Compassion
     Reply #17 - March 17, 2011, 04:17 AM

    This karen armstrong bitch must be the one responsible for the myth that neil armstrong is a muslim and heard the adhan on the moon.
  • Re: Karen Armstrong launches Charter of Compassion
     Reply #18 - March 17, 2011, 04:34 AM

    ^ where did you get that from ?

    Nothing can be more contrary to religion and the clergy than reason and common sense. - Voltaire
  • Re: Karen Armstrong launches Charter of Compassion
     Reply #19 - March 17, 2011, 04:36 AM

    I got a chain letter from my cousins talking about Neil armstrong becoming a muslim
  • Re: Karen Armstrong launches Charter of Compassion
     Reply #20 - March 17, 2011, 04:41 AM

    It began with someone on an indonesian radio station claiming he converted
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