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Theme Changer

 Topic: Hi from on the fence muslim

 (Read 97457 times)
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  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #420 - January 14, 2011, 02:52 AM

    Quote
    early 20s, why?

    oh never mind.

    Quote
    How do I owe anything to god? I didn't ask him to make me, nor did I make any agreements with him.  Unless I've made a contract with him agreeing to any conditions, I owe him zilch. I don't remember ever making any such agreement - and I'm sure neither do you.


    what does the fact that you didn't ask to be created have to do with the fact that He is your creator? aren't creators, by default, owners of their creation? yes/no?

    OFF TOPIC: If you don't like the fact that you were created, despite the fact you didn't even exist to be consulted about your creation, in the first place, then why don't you take your own life? Or do you actually cherish the fact that you were created?

    Quote
    Furthermore, 'god' says in the quran that he is 'the most merciful', repeatedly. When he says that in his own words to humans, he is in fact making a promise to be merciful, and in fact, he does owe it to humans to be 'the most merciful' since he has promised that in his own words.


    no, God owes it to Himself (and ONLY Himself) to keep His promises. Your words remind me of what many Muslims believe: God owes them keeping His promises... I call this an act of self-worship. By the way, in the Quran, God says He ordained mercy upon Himself. In other words, He's merciful because He owes it to Himself (and no one else) to be merciful.  

    Quote
    If god existed, sure, he'd be more powerful than humans hence he'd be able to break his promise and we won't be able to force him to follow through on his promise, however, power alone is no excuse for you to not call a spade a spade, and not call unjust / cruel behavior unjust cruel.


    like i said there is difference between justice and mercy. Nothing God does to His creation can be unjust, you can argue for lack of mercy, but not injustice.

    Quote
    You're paying some superb mental gymnastics and acrobatics to continue believing in an absurd concept that doesn't make sense. You'd get the olympic medal many times over if you could perform such gymnatics in real life


    why? because i believe the Creator owns His creation?

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #421 - January 14, 2011, 02:56 AM

    EDIT:

    Btw, I believe that not even the worst monsters known to humanity (Hitler and the like) would sentence their worst enemies to *eternity* in Hell. But that’s from my human perspective and God is not human. If you think about it, even objectively, we are infinitely smaller and less significant than specks of dust to GOD, so it is quite astonishing that He’d even care for some of us. In other words, we are worth nothing except by God’s mercy. It is really hard for our egos to accept that we are infinitely worthless, compared even to God, and that’s why only the humble can *truly submit*. 

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #422 - January 14, 2011, 02:59 AM

    Its a false analogy.  Here we are talking about an omnicient & omnipotent creator talking to his creation, not a father talking to a petulant 1 year old, who doesnt have the capability to understand.

    It doesnt matter to me anyway, it was only a passing comment on the methods you employed to discard the personally troubling questions & how it might mean you are a better muslim.  In reality I think its part of the same phenomenon employed by all faiths.

    Having said that, I'd appreciate your response to this



    i already answered this here:
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=14003.msg391022#msg391022

    Until next week,

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #423 - January 14, 2011, 03:12 AM

    what does the fact that you didn't ask to be created have to do with the fact that He is your creator?

    Because unless I agreed to any terms that he set before he created me, I'm not obligated to do anything for him.

    Also, I don't see any evidence of his involvement in my life. I was born when a sperm fertilized an egg, and then the usual 9 months of pregnancy happened during which my mother had to take care of my nutritional needs, I got my food through her body and not by god's angels feeding me, etc. Finally I was born when she gave birth to me. Where in the process is the involvement of god which suggests that I owe anything to him? It was the result of natural processes.


    aren't creators, by default, owners of their creation? yes/no?

    Yes. If I created a robot, I would be the owner of the robot. However, if I created consciousness in that robot wherein he could feel pain, and then I chose to inflict that pain on him for all eternity, that wouldn't be just or merciful of me. The fact that I create a robot and its my property, doesn't mean that if I torture my creation, I wouldn't be an asshole for doing so.

    OFF TOPIC: If you don't like the fact that you were created, despite the fact you didn't even exist to be consulted about your creation, in the first place, then why don't you take your own life? Or do you actually cherish the fact that you were created?


    Of course I like my life. However, if before i was created, god told me the terms of my life which would be eternal slavery to him specially when I learnt of his views on women, allowing of a number of things that I consider unethical and outright disgusting, I would have chosen to not be created rather than to be the slave of someone I have 0 respect for.

    no, God owes it to Himself (and ONLY Himself) to keep His promises. Your words remind me of what many Muslims believe: God owes them keeping His promises... I call this an act of self-worship. By the way, in the Quran, God says He ordained mercy upon Himself. In other words, He's merciful because He owes it to Himself (and no one else) to be merciful.  

    Wrong. When I promise to you that I will do something for you, I owe it to you that I'll keep that promise. When god promises in the quran that he is the most merciful, he owes to humans to show them this mercy that he has promised. Otherwise please explain how, after promising to be the most merciful, he doesn't owe it.

    like i said there is difference between justice and mercy. Nothing God does to His creation can be unjust, you can argue for lack of mercy, but not injustice.

    If I created a robot, promised that robot that I'm the most merciful, and then went back on my promise and tortured the robot for all eternity, fuck yeah, I'd be one right unjust motherfucker.
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #424 - January 14, 2011, 03:30 AM

    why don't you take your own life?

    Did you seriously said that?

    I was seriously thinking you were actually a nice logical minded muslim. But you completely destroyed your image with this statement.

    What do you seriously think human life is worth? it is comparatively nothing at all to your cosmic daddy, but you are a human too. If you have no respect for a fellow human's life, you are just a moron.

    Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
    Islam's Last Stand (page)
    Islam's Last Stand (group)
    and many others...
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #425 - January 14, 2011, 03:32 AM

    what does the fact that you didn't ask to be created have to do with the fact that He is your creator? aren't creators, by default, owners of their creation? yes/no?


    Do your parents own you? No.

    OFF TOPIC: If you don't like the fact that you were created, despite the fact you didn't even exist to be consulted about your creation, in the first place, then why don't you take your own life? Or do you actually cherish the fact that you were created?


    We wasn't created. If there is something to dislike here, it's baseless assertions, like 'you were created'. Also, you present these two choices like they are the only two choices - cherish the creator, or take your own life. What the fuck? What are you thinking? What's going through your mind?
     
    like i said there is difference between justice and mercy. Nothing God does to His creation can be unjust, you can argue for lack of mercy, but not injustice.


    You cannot justify the heinous shit by simply asserting concepts such as justice don't apply to god and expect it to pass muster. You might not need a train of logic to take these things for granted, but other people do. Especially when this particular god expects us to enact its justice in this life and obey its commandments. This desert wraith you are worshipping should be setting an example, should it not?

    Btw, I believe that not even the worst monsters known to humanity (Hitler and the like) would sentence their worst enemies to *eternity* in Hell. But that’s from my human perspective and God is not human. If you think about it, even objectively, we are infinitely smaller and less significant than specks of dust to GOD, so it is quite astonishing that He’d even care for some of us. In other words, we are worth nothing except by God’s mercy.


    So why does Allah care about our toilet habits and dress sense, or who we are friendly with/who we fall in love with? The grand architect of the universe, with the whole glorious cosmos for a playground, and he’s writing lists of prudish rules and dictating the toilet habits of some flash in the pan ape species on a tiny ball of rock in some backwater part of the galaxy. So caught up with human sexual areas and his own inadequacies that he has to set up some shabby and long-winded rat-maze ‘test’ just to keep his lonely, whiney, lazy, sorry arse busy. It's no wonder so many people have no respect for him. Who in their right mind could respect such an entity?

    And of all the people to choose as his prophet, he has to choose some dirty, illiterate pervert who has only slightly less mood swings than himself. Pathetic. What a fucking idiot god.

    It is really hard for our egos to accept that we are infinitely worthless, compared even to God, and that’s why only the humble can *truly submit*.


    What is the attraction of reducing yourself this way? Are you a masochist? It isn't an attractive quality. What need is there to prostrate yourself in this manner?

    Square your shoulders, hold your head up high. Be your own man. Make yourself. Stop worshipping this desert phantom. It’s holding you back. Stop obsessing over ambiguous lines of text in a shitty, inferior book of superstitionist absurdity and mediocre oral traditions, full of petty local squabbles and the mundane micro-management of an age and culture you never even knew.

    Free your mind, man. You’re too bright to be Muslim. This Islam bollocks is indefensible and really quite silly.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #426 - January 14, 2011, 03:32 AM

    He has more wit and appeal in any single sentence than your entire string of mangled posts so far.


    b nice

    fuck you
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #427 - January 14, 2011, 03:34 AM

    b nice


    Bollocks.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #428 - January 14, 2011, 03:35 AM

    That's the opposite of what I said.

    fuck you
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #429 - January 14, 2011, 03:37 AM

    Change your signature.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #430 - January 14, 2011, 03:42 AM

    Will you be nice to AbaAbdillah if I do?

    fuck you
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #431 - January 14, 2011, 03:44 AM

    If he stops being an idiot.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #432 - January 14, 2011, 03:45 AM

    By Q-Man's standards? Cause getting frustrated by MAB is forgivable to me.

    fuck you
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #433 - January 14, 2011, 03:48 AM

    By my standards. He's said plenty of tarded shit in this thread. He wouldn't have even been on my radar otherwise.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #434 - January 14, 2011, 03:49 AM

    Then the sig stays unless there's somethin in it for me.  dance

    fuck you
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #435 - January 14, 2011, 03:56 AM

    Fine,

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #436 - January 14, 2011, 03:57 AM

    But mine is based on truth. You just pulled yours out of your pretty little ass.

    fuck you
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #437 - January 14, 2011, 03:58 AM

    No it isn't.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #438 - January 14, 2011, 04:03 AM

    Glen Beck is a right wing libertarian, not an anarcho socialist.  A better example would be Chomsky, but Chomsky makes more sense on a dead drunk high on heroin day, then Glen Beck at his most sober. 

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #439 - January 14, 2011, 04:04 AM

    No it isn't.


    Your ass isn't pretty? Well, I apologize then, I was just assuming.

    Glen Beck is a right wing libertarian, not an anarcho socialist.  A better example would be Chomsky, but Chomsky makes more sense on a dead drunk high on heroin day, then Glen Beck at his most sober. 


    Libertarian is stretching it don't you think?

    fuck you
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #440 - January 14, 2011, 04:05 AM

    No, but my arse is.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #441 - January 14, 2011, 04:08 AM


    Libertarian is stretching it don't you think?


    It is what he claims to be, just like Hannity.  Frankly I think is his just the nut wing of the Republican party which nut libertarians dovetail into nicely. 

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #442 - January 14, 2011, 10:41 AM

    Answer: because it sounds even sillier than Christianity (which I was seriously contemplating embracing during my phase of Deism).


    Islam's stories sound silly to non Muslims. And so on and so on and so on.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #443 - January 14, 2011, 10:44 AM

    Allah is a psychopathic prick. This helps me sympathise with Satan. The Islamic reworking of the mythology doesn't really make that much difference to me.



    Maybe Satan was the good guy, Allah is the real devil, and Islam just demonised Satan as it does to anyone it dislikes, including in its myths and stories.




    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #444 - January 14, 2011, 10:50 AM

    Atleast that's a fair summary of what I was saying!


    Hassan's surmisal of what you are saying makes you a willing accomplice to sadistic torture.

    If you accept that certain human beings deserve to be tortured without limit and have pain inflicted on them simply because they do not believe in the things you believe in, it means your belief as instructed by your God dehumanises men and women, girls and boys, simply because your God tells you so.

    And then you actually use the word 'rational' in your further reply!

    God as Josef Fritzl, God as they psychopathic sadistic torturer from the SAW movies.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #445 - January 14, 2011, 10:55 AM

    of course we should use our reason, and if something doesn't make sense to you, then you should seek the answer


    And if the answers do not satisfy one's rational mind, then they cannot be blamed for rejecting that belief - no?
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #446 - January 14, 2011, 11:03 AM


    my post was a response to the one you list - you see Buddhism makes 99% sense to me too, by your argument I should shave my head & chant Hare Krishna?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #447 - January 14, 2011, 01:31 PM

    yes i did, we are not given the option to make a martyr of an unborn baby or indeed any other babies (or men).

    Leave aside the admissibility of abortion momentarily, do you concur that from the vantage point of the foetus, nothing could be more advantageous than to be sent leaping into the arms of God prematurely? Babies get a free pass to the shady groves of paradise without running the risk of post-mortem interrogation. Is not the certain promise of salvation in the bestest interest of the hairless, toothless, speechless little bint?

  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #448 - January 14, 2011, 02:11 PM

    Judaism I saw as a tribal religion, and they have to follow 613 laws, whereas the none jews, known as the noahides, had to only follow 7, so what's the point in becoming a jew.
    Hinduism, traditionally women had no spiritual path and they would perform sati, sometimes by force, would throw themselves on a fire to burn with the corpse of their husbands and it took the British to ban it. Also I found it interesting that their gods resembled monkeys and elephants, as you find them in india, but not in every part of the world, and also that they bowed to cows and drank their urine and even used it for blessings. 
    It definitely didn't seem like a universal religion.


    I want to comment on your perversion of language, something I already mentioned when I said that you talk about rationality after declaring your unquestioning devotion to unlimited torture and physical pain being inflicted on girls, boys, men and women.

    First of all, the above quote in relation to Hinduism and Judaism is another example of the 'my sweat doesn't stink but their sweat stinks' syndrome that many religionists have. You see just as Hinduism and Judaism are rooted in the environment of their formation, so is Islam utterly rooted to stone age bedouin Arab culture. The stories, the morality, the ethics, the practises, are utterly of a piece with the narrow petty confines of where it sprang from. You observe this in other traditions, but when it comes to bowing towards a black stone in a tent paganism / Islam, all of a sudden, you are myopic and clueless.

    And that is where I bring your perversion of language into play, its intimately linked to this purblindness. Your use of the word 'universalism', something that other religions in your opinion do not possess in detriment by comparison to Islam.

    Because the last thing that Islam is, is an ethics or belief system of universality. You are confusing the arrogant belief in prosletysation and evangelism, the call to struggle until the world synonymously submits to Islam, with universalism. Wanting everyone else to universally cleave to your religion is not universalism. Its just the imperial impulse of a chauvinistic creed debasing language to suggest benign concern.

    A universal belief says that all people are equal. Islam says that Muslims are more equal than kuffars.

    A universal belief says that men and women are equal. Islam says that women are inferior to men.

    A universal belief says that freedom of conscience is the birthright of every man and woman. Islam says that only Islam has the right to assert itself and seek converts, and those who wish to exercise freedom of conscience by leaving Islam must be murdered.

    Really, I could go on and on. But the point is really simple. Islam is only a universal religion in the sense that it seeks to universally destroy, usurp, and convert every other belief system in the world, and impose itself universally. Not because of its values or ethics. Its values and ethics and worldview and practises and tribalism are those of sixth century bedouin Arabia. Which given the literalism and lack of liberal space within it, the stagnation of Islam has not changed barely one iota since it was formed. All that remains are people twisting to try and cover up for it, unlike other religions that although made of the environment they emerged from have opened up space for modern interpretations - religions like those you mention, and Christianity too.

    In doing this, you debase and pervert language in your arguments, referring to 'rationalism' and 'universalism', and the truth is you probably don't even realise you are doing it.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Hi from on the fence muslim
     Reply #449 - January 14, 2011, 02:20 PM

    my post was a response to the one you list - you see Buddhism makes 99% sense to me too, by your argument I should shave my head & chant Hare Krishna?


    Hare Krishna is a sub-sect of Hinduism Afro

    You could still shave your head as a Buddhist though - all these Indian religions melt into each other, I know.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

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