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Theme Changer

 Topic: Are we ready for neo-evolution?

 (Read 8381 times)
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  • Re: Are we ready for neo-evolution?
     Reply #30 - April 28, 2011, 12:38 PM

    Wouldn't you consider the difference between a 180-pound English Mastiff...

    (Clicky for piccy!)

    ...and the two-pound Chihuahua...

    (Clicky for piccy!)

    ... an example of how we have already altered the course of one species' evolution?

    And since you're a fan of Malthusianism, what do you think about Genetically Modified crops?




    this is more micromanagement of evolution(in the form of selective breeding), as dog breeds aren't biological/taxonomical classifications, but more colloquial in nature(hell, all domestic dogs come under the same subspecies, let alone the same species). though i wouldn't trust humans to control their own evolution, bar eliminating genetic disease.
  • Re: Are we ready for neo-evolution?
     Reply #31 - April 28, 2011, 01:00 PM

    Yes, but the differences we have made to one species with low-tech selective breeding is quite profound, isn’t it? With animals bred from a single stock now branched into forms for specific purposes and features - aesthetics, strength, endurance, intelligence - that would not even exist unless we had purposefully influenced the course of their evolution.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Are we ready for neo-evolution?
     Reply #32 - April 28, 2011, 01:20 PM

    Wouldn't you consider the difference between a 180-pound English Mastiff...

    (Clicky for piccy!)

    ...and the two-pound Chihuahua...

    (Clicky for piccy!)

    ... an example of how we have already altered the course of one species' evolution?

    And since you're a fan of Malthusianism, what do you think about Genetically Modified crops?

    Thomas Malthus doesn't need fans - he's long dead.
    Ah, I see your problem! All domesticated dogs are modified wolves and back crossing any of the breeds (not species, note) would give us back the wild type wolf without too much trouble. The wolf type gene pool is in there somewhere.
    Same goes for lots of human modified creatures: Darwin's favourite was the Rock Dove from which all the domesticated pigeons were developed. As with all domesticated livestock, near family members are bred together to get the traits you want, but when they escape and go  flyabout you soon get a feral pigeon that is indistinguishable from the original rock dove. The reason they like city life so much nowadays are down to the roosting and nesting opportunities presented by those man made cliffs called high rise buildings, waste heat to keep warm by in winter and all the seed you can eat in the form of discarded burgers. How the chips/fries habit developed I don't know but if you have the enzymes to digest them, you're on to a winner.

    We've been g-modifying crops since we first started burning the ground and scattering gluts of stripped grass seed and then coming back to (literally) reap the rewards at some later date. Those crops, like everything else we transmogrify, have genes from their own pool and would go back to wild type pretty quickly without our continuing intervention. So we select for grain size and number, stalk length and thickness, flavour, cookability, disease resistance, storage quality and so on.
    There are slight problems in that as grain size increases the proportion of carbohydrate to protein (germ) increases so we have to adjust our diet to balance it by adding , say, fish or some other first class protein; or if you're a veggie, beans and so forth to get all the amino acid combinations you need to stay healthy.

    The problem with the type of gene manipulation in GM crops is that genes from other species can be inserted - plant genes into animals/ animal genes into plants.
    No one knows what may happen when these mutants get loose in the environment. For instance, if rogue mutants back-cross with the wild type, say in rice , wheat, barley, etc; will the insert invade the wild type and knacker up the original genome from which we've derived so much?  Can we risk it?

    Again, I say, fuck the quote function!


    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Are we ready for neo-evolution?
     Reply #33 - April 28, 2011, 01:24 PM

    Yes, but the differences we have made to one species with low-tech selective breeding is quite profound, isn’t it? With animals bred from a single stock now branched into forms for specific purposes and features - aesthetics, strength, endurance, intelligence - that would not even exist unless we had purposefully influenced the course of their evolution.

    But they are still the same species, still capable of interbreeding. All we've succeeded in doing is to isolate family groups and concentrated them to produce freaks.

    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Are we ready for neo-evolution?
     Reply #34 - April 28, 2011, 01:30 PM

    But they are still the same species, still capable of interbreeding. All we've succeeded in doing is to isolate family groups and concentrated them to produce freaks.

    Hallelujah! Praise the Lord!

    That's exactly what the video is essentially about  Wink

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Are we ready for neo-evolution?
     Reply #35 - April 28, 2011, 01:32 PM

    Ah, I see your problem! All domesticated dogs are modified wolves and back crossing any of the breeds (not species, note) would give us back the wild type wolf without too much trouble.

    Huh?

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Are we ready for neo-evolution?
     Reply #36 - April 28, 2011, 01:38 PM

    Yep.
    http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FOrigin_of_the_domestic_dog&ei=3G25Ta6mLNSr8QO03M1H&usg=AFQjCNFwZZYY6neSS9PcetfMkckTao_Z3Q

    The Arctic Fox has just been domesticated in a few short years simply by selecting the better natured, more approachable ones from many of differing temperaments.

    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Are we ready for neo-evolution?
     Reply #37 - April 28, 2011, 02:21 PM

    I meant the back-crossing part.

    I understand the history of the domesticated dog.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Are we ready for neo-evolution?
     Reply #38 - April 28, 2011, 05:13 PM

    Pardon my ignorance, would that cure a baldness?

    Well, not cure it so to speak, but eliminate the possibility you mean? The genes responsible for male pattern baldness (androgenetic alopecia) have apparently been discovered, and is how they treat it currently. If we are eventually designing our own humans though, can't see why we'd design them with the chance of baldness.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Are we ready for neo-evolution?
     Reply #39 - April 28, 2011, 06:03 PM

    This sounds cool not only the baldness but generally.

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Re: Are we ready for neo-evolution?
     Reply #40 - April 28, 2011, 07:27 PM

    Hallelujah! Praise the Lord!

    That's exactly what the video is essentially about  Wink

    But we haven't altered the species so evolution isn't involved, neo or otherwise.

    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Are we ready for neo-evolution?
     Reply #41 - April 28, 2011, 07:44 PM

    It's interesting that he (dude in video) seems to think confidence is simply a genetic quality that can be changed through altering genetic code...

    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Are we ready for neo-evolution?
     Reply #42 - April 28, 2011, 08:05 PM

    But we haven't altered the species so evolution isn't involved, neo or otherwise.


    Evolution is simply a change in the frequency of alleles within a given population's gene pool from one gen. to the next.
  • Re: Are we ready for neo-evolution?
     Reply #43 - April 28, 2011, 10:19 PM

    q
  • Re: Are we ready for neo-evolution?
     Reply #44 - April 28, 2011, 11:54 PM

    Still, I would like to have shared a beer with Macaulay. You will seek far and wide till you find a greater model of the English essay.


    Interesting. Where do you stand on Hazlitt?

    Isn't thread drift wonderful?
  • Re: Are we ready for neo-evolution?
     Reply #45 - April 29, 2011, 12:16 AM

    q
  • Re: Are we ready for neo-evolution?
     Reply #46 - April 29, 2011, 01:04 AM

    I can't claim to have read enough of either, oddly enough, so I'm sure you're right. Of Hazlitt, I've only read 'On Poetry' and 'On Disagreeable People', and haven't yet dragged myself through 'Liber Amoris' to see what all the fuss was about. He does seem to have some sort of latter-day reputation as the father of the English essay; I'm guessing that you would disagree.

    As for Macaulay, I've been reading his biography of Lord Clive recently - it's the first time I've read anything by him since I was obliged to read up on Whig views of the English Civil War (in A-Level History, rather a long time ago). What essays of his would you recommend?

    edit: Syntax error.
  • Re: Are we ready for neo-evolution?
     Reply #47 - April 29, 2011, 01:28 AM

    But we haven't altered the species so evolution isn't involved, neo or otherwise.

    You've lost me. How can you look at the profound differences in dog breeds and say we have not altered a species? Don't say something like "but they are still the same species!" because nobody said anything about creating an entirely new species.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Are we ready for neo-evolution?
     Reply #48 - April 29, 2011, 01:51 AM

    It's interesting that he (dude in video) seems to think confidence is simply a genetic quality that can be changed through altering genetic code...

    There is research that suggests confidence is at least partly hereditary. This doesn't mean that it is free from other external influences, though.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Are we ready for neo-evolution?
     Reply #49 - April 29, 2011, 01:52 AM

    q
  • Re: Are we ready for neo-evolution?
     Reply #50 - June 07, 2011, 12:40 PM

    Thanks Ishina Smiley

    I really like ted-talks! presentations, they have some very interesting topics. I watched one on '3D Kidney printer' not long ago - stem cell research.

    I think when I have some more time I will post more here.


    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Are we ready for neo-evolution?
     Reply #51 - June 17, 2014, 01:33 PM

    Bump.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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