Hi:)

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- zomzom
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Re: Hi:)
Reply #210 - December 07, 2010, 03:06 PM

Quote from: donatelo on December 07, 2010, 02:51 PM
If a book / magazine / anything calls for violence against a particular group, that's hate speech/incitement to violence in any court of law. If people commit violence because of those books, that makes the case even stronger about that book inciting to violence. If a country has existing laws against hate speech, those laws should be applied against the quran. Just because its a religious book doesn't mean its above the law.

That is nonsense. The person who had written the book should be arrested not the person reading it.

Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
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Re: Hi:)
Reply #211 - December 07, 2010, 03:11 PM

Quote from: Telomeme on December 07, 2010, 03:06 PM
As somewhat of an idealist, I'm for absolute freedom of speech. From this perspective, you should be able to publish whatever the hell you want, including Mein Kampf, Deuteronomy, the Quran, and the like. You should also be able to criticize the hell out of whatever gets said or published without any fears. Of course the problem with this is that there are a lot of idiots out there who would turn words into actions.

I agree with you. I don't believe in placing a limit on freedom of speech it is all or nothing. However, if someone is clearly for the reason to incite violence then something needs to be done about it. I don't really see, "hatred" equating to "violence" though. Because hatred is too subjective.

Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
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Re: Hi:)
Reply #212 - December 07, 2010, 03:12 PM

Quote from: King Tut on December 07, 2010, 03:06 PM
That is nonsense. The person who had written the book should be arrested not the person reading it.

I'm not saying anyone should be arrested, but quran should be treated like any other hate speech book. If the laws of a country say that hate speech books can't be published or distributed, then quran shouldn't be published or distributed.

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Re: Hi:)
Reply #213 - December 07, 2010, 03:16 PM

Quote from: King Tut on December 07, 2010, 03:11 PM
I agree with you. I don't believe in placing a limit on freedom of speech it is all or nothing. However, if someone is clearly for the reason to incite violence then something needs to be done about it. I don't really see, "hatred" equating to "violence" though. Because hatred is too subjective.

That's exactly why I like sticking to the absolute principle; you don't have to waste time debating what constitutes this or that and you don't have to be subject to the current popular biases.
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Re: Hi:)
Reply #214 - December 07, 2010, 03:18 PM

Quote from: King Tut on December 07, 2010, 02:06 PM
With regards to CEMB it is a organization founded by Iranian dissidents, I said like on the first day. Maryam is part of the Iranian Workers Party. Which just leaves a bad taste in your mouth, I don't want to be associated with them, this forum ideally should be separate, in should clearly state is has noting to do with, Iran.

Forum exit is that way ---->

Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
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Re: Hi:)
Reply #215 - December 07, 2010, 03:25 PM

Quote from: Hassan on December 07, 2010, 02:38 PM

We are beginning to make inroads, get noticed and gain support. As for transforming attitudes - things happen slowly - but there are many individuals - including some on this forum - who have come to see that what CEMB is doing is the right way to go about opposing Islamists and defending freedom and human rights. We also get a lot of letters and emails of support and have prominent thinkers like Dawkins, AC Grayling and politicians like Evan Harris, activists like Peter Thatchel etc... who support us.

Well, that's encouraging. If you hover around the Ummah site long enough, you get the sense that everyone opposing Islamists are members of the EDL.
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Re: Hi:)
Reply #216 - December 07, 2010, 03:37 PM

Quote from: Telomeme on December 07, 2010, 03:25 PM
If you hover around the Ummah site long enough, you get the sense that everyone opposing Islamists are members of the EDL.

Opposing Islamists!!?? Don't make me laugh.

Try: Harassing innocent Muslims and non-Muslims in the streets while behaving like drunken louts. (Not to mention a few Nazi salutes).

It never ceases to amaze me how the most vocal and active in championing their nation, religion or race are almost always the very worst examples of it.
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Re: Hi:)
Reply #217 - December 07, 2010, 03:48 PM

EDL are just thugs with a forum. Any valid political message or purpose they might have had to start with got lost somewhere along the way, though I dont actually think they had one to begin with.

Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
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Re: Hi:)
Reply #218 - December 07, 2010, 03:53 PM

Quote from: Hassan on December 07, 2010, 03:37 PM
Opposing Islamists!!?? Don't make me laugh.

Try: Harassing innocent Muslims and non-Muslims in the streets while behaving like drunken louts. (Not to mention a few Nazi salutes).

It never ceases to amaze me how the vocal and active in championing their nation, religion or race are almost always the very worst examples of it.

I know that's preposterous, just like most commentary that comes up over there. On the other hand, there are many right-wingers who go around saying that 'the left' is somehow intertwined with the Islamists in some pro-Sharia conspiracy.
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Re: Hi:)
Reply #219 - December 07, 2010, 04:03 PM

Quote from: Telomeme on December 07, 2010, 03:53 PM
I know that's preposterous, just like most commentary that comes up over there. On the other hand, there are many right-wingers who go around saying that 'the left' is somehow intertwined with the Islamists in some pro-Sharia conspiracy.

I would say to anyone who says the left is in on some pro-Sharia conspiracy - "Keep taking the medication."

But some parts of the left definitely pander to Islam and Muslims.
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Re: Hi:)
Reply #220 - December 07, 2010, 07:07 PM

Quote from: donatelo on December 07, 2010, 01:47 PM
If my religious beliefs dictate that all africans should be subjugated by whites and made to pay jizya, and I want to publish scriptures of my religion advocating these beliefs, and build shrines representing my religion, would that be considered freedom of religion or hate speech/incitement to violence?

Edit: And what if direct acts of violence against blacks were committed following the teachings of my religious scriptures, by followers of my religion?

Well, let's see-- Neo-Nazis have freedom of speech in my country and so far as I can tell, while there have been some violent crimes committed by neo-Nazis over the years, we're in no danger of a neo-Nazi takeover.

People who want the government to silence opinions they disagree with are cowardly, unimaginative, weak, short-sighted and, without fail, HUGE hypocrites, because they're the first to cry "freedom of speech!" when the government silences ideas you don't find objectionable using the very same powers people like you would grant them.

fuck you
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Re: Hi:)
Reply #221 - December 08, 2010, 08:49 AM

I don't care if this forum was started by dissident Iranians! It has
changed my life, improved my QUALITY of life, and has helped me
to finally oust nagging doubts, fears, and plenty of sorrows I was
shackled to believing in the big sky daddy.

I see a multitude here, from ALL backgrounds, ALL faiths for that matter,
and all walks of life, and most of us seeking TRUTH, and FINDING IT!

Thank you dissident Iranians for your courage, and bravery to stand up
and say, "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!"

When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
Helen Keller
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Re: Hi:)
Reply #222 - December 08, 2010, 10:19 AM

+1

Dissident Iranians are an inspiration to us all, and what finer platform to represent ex-muslims by.

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Re: Hi:)
Reply #223 - December 08, 2010, 10:56 AM

+2

ps CEMB was founded by dissident Iranians - however the CEMB Internet Forum itself was founded by A Moroccan lady, an Anglo-Egyptian, an Aussie and an Englishman
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Re: Hi:)
Reply #224 - December 08, 2010, 10:58 AM

Who da Englishman?

fuck you
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Re: Hi:)
Reply #225 - December 08, 2010, 11:19 AM

Wise Haven

http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?action=profile;u=7

He was one of the original 4 that got this forum off the ground - along with Berbs, Oz and me. He has not been active for a long time though.
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Re: Hi:)
Reply #226 - December 08, 2010, 01:30 PM

Quote from: Q-Man on December 07, 2010, 07:07 PM
People who want the government to silence opinions they disagree with are cowardly, unimaginative, weak, short-sighted and, without fail, HUGE hypocrites, because they're the first to cry "freedom of speech!" when the government silences ideas you don't find objectionable using the very same powers people like you would grant them.

I agree with you, people who want opinions they 'disagree with' to be silenced are cowards/hypocrites. There's a difference however between 'opinions you disagree with' and 'hate speech/incitement to violence'. Opinions don't hurt anyone, incitement to violence does, and in the case of the quran, its already responsible for thousands of people killed in terrorist attacks.

You can disagree with me all you want, but the moment you start saying someone should be killed, that's no longer just an opinion, that's incitement to violence.

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Re: Hi:)
Reply #227 - December 08, 2010, 04:19 PM

Quote from: Hassan on December 08, 2010, 10:56 AM
+2

ps CEMB was founded by dissident Iranians - however the CEMB Internet Forum itself was founded by A Moroccan lady, an Anglo-Egyptian, an Aussie and an Englishman

Thats something you should all be really proud off- this forum really is one of a kind, and really does have presence now on google.

I went to a wedding recently and somebody knew already of this site, totally independently of me.

On another note, I was facebooked today by somebody in India who found a google link to the deobandi thread - one that I had totally forgotton about

Quote
But recently I was trying to find if there were any discussions on the Fatwas given by the Maulvis of Deoband,[which is absent in the Indian Press,or if present,riddled with a very unconvincing arguments,] that I visited the Ex Muslim Council forums

If we could only get numbers on how many different people have at one time in their lives accessed this site, I am sure the figure would make the mind boggle.

A great legacy - Hats of t'yall.

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Re: Hi:)
Reply #228 - December 08, 2010, 06:23 PM

A sincere, and heartfelt "thank you" Hassan and Berbs and Oz and Wize Haven

When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
Helen Keller
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