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Theme Changer

 Topic: "Benefit Scroungers"

 (Read 16152 times)
  • 12 3 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • "Benefit Scroungers"
     OP - November 09, 2010, 02:33 PM

    I am really getting so sick and tired about all this shit in the tabloids, and particularly The Sun, and by the government about "benefit scroungers". They get themselves so fucking worked up about ordinary people who are unemployed and have their living expenses paid for by the state whilst remaining strangely silent about the billionaire businessmen who get away with not paying billions of pounds in tax.

    The Sun will have articles like this in their shit fucking rag everyday making out that all people on benefits are lazy and don't want to work and they are all that is wrong with this country - and if we stopped paying these people benefits (that they are probably entitled to) than the economy would be absolutely fine.

    Just look at this article here

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features/3091717/The-Sun-declares-war-on-Britains-benefits-culture.html

    It is brilliant - it has a whole host of stereotypes who they want you to hate! There's the "jobless Somali bus conductor" - An immigrant. "Jailed Kidnapper mum", "hardline Muslim cleric", "Sick Raoul Moat fan", and of course, no article encouraging you to hate benefit scroungers is complete without the "baby machine". And then they have the Great British Hero. A man with 10 kids who doesn't claim benefits, works in construction, and has served in Afghanistan (Of course, every British Hero is currently serving, or has served in Afghanistan. I personally think he is a twat for allowing himself to be exploited like this by The Sun).

    Firstly, if people have genuine benefit claims, then they should get it; that is what the welfare state is for. And secondly, in the grand scheme of things, the amount fraudulently claimed is a negligible amount! 1.1 billion!

    This is nothing compared to the amount of tax which is avoided by rich businessmen (official government figures say it is around 7 billion but independent analysts have said it is a hell of a lot more). Yet these people are not being targeted by the government or their propaganda machine, The Sun. In fact, these people, such as Philip Green and Lord Ashcroft, are in fact very pally with the public school educated twats who run our country.

    And not to forget the banks, who added a trillion to the national debt with their bailing out. Yet they are still being paid amazing salaries and bonuses.

    All this talk of benefit scroungers is just an attempt on behalf of the government and their favourite rag to make government policy which attacks the poor seem morally justifiable.

    Rant over!

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: "Benefit Scroungers"
     Reply #1 - November 09, 2010, 02:45 PM

    A rant worthy of thinkfree, and entirely accurate (especially about the aims).

    We had the same thing going on here in the 90s-- press attacks on "welfare queens" until Congress passed "welfare reform" under Bill Clinton.

    Right now it's attacks on immigrants, unionized public-sector workers (and especially their healthcare and pension plans), and to a lesser extent other unionized workers. But especially those in the public-sector-- it's easier for the press to manipulate people's petty jealousy of other working-class people who make more than them due to unionization when the taxpayers are footing the bill in the middle of a huge recession and there's a steady drumbeat of "cuts, cuts, cuts" from the politicians and the media. It's relentless and sickening.

    These attacks on the public-sector (benefits, services, and employees) have been going on all over the world since the collapse of the Soviet Union (and even before), and are accelerating as the ruling-class use the faltering economy as a tool to leverage working-class people against each other. Until there is a militant, mass push-back from the working-class (at least they're fucking trying in places like France and Greece, not here), it will continue.

    fuck you
  • Re: "Benefit Scroungers"
     Reply #2 - November 09, 2010, 02:57 PM

    As George Carlin once said:



    "Because that's all you ever hear about in this country are our differences, thats all the Media and the politicians are ever talking about, the things that separate us - things that make us different from one another.

    Thats the way the ruling class operates in any society , they try to divide the rest of the people; They keep the lower and the middle classes fighting so that they, the rich, can run off with all the fucking money.'
  • Re: "Benefit Scroungers"
     Reply #3 - November 09, 2010, 03:13 PM

    I didn't see a rant mixu - just calm and considered observations - great post

    at times like this it does seem that the aim of the government is to keep the rich always rich - and at times like this it's when we more plainly see their true colours

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: "Benefit Scroungers"
     Reply #4 - November 09, 2010, 06:28 PM

    *remembers why he doesnt read the sun*
  • Re: "Benefit Scroungers"
     Reply #5 - November 10, 2010, 07:06 AM

    From Urban Dictionary:

    The Sun

    British comic, largely obsessed with keeping the public outraged, and at the same time titillated, by over-the-top stories about child sexual abuse. The Sun also occasionally features articles on football, Britney Spears, foreigners, and benefit claimants. Often contains rants against 'pervs', which is rather ironic given The Sun's joint role as soft pornography.
    (see also Daily Mail)

    "My romp with pikey perv footballer", only in The Sun

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: "Benefit Scroungers"
     Reply #6 - November 10, 2010, 11:36 AM


    Mixu, the problem is, leaving aside the rhetoric and agenda of right wing newspapers, is that there really are people who are swinging the lead and taking the piss out of the social, and one of the things this means is that people who really need it; carers, pensioners, those genuinely unable to work because of illness or disability, don't receive as much as they should. Leave aside The Sun for a moment, there are reforms that are needed in the welfare system.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: "Benefit Scroungers"
     Reply #7 - November 10, 2010, 12:23 PM

    There probably are, but in the middle of a recession when there simply aren't enough jobs to go round, is a strange time to be picking on dole claimants.  Why don't they get outraged at the bankers who caused the mess in the first place?

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: "Benefit Scroungers"
     Reply #8 - November 10, 2010, 12:34 PM

    Mixu, the problem is, leaving aside the rhetoric and agenda of right wing newspapers, is that there really are people who are swinging the lead and taking the piss out of the social, and one of the things this means is that people who really need it; carers, pensioners, those genuinely unable to work because of illness or disability, don't receive as much as they should. Leave aside The Sun for a moment, there are reforms that are needed in the welfare system.


    Yeah that is true but the scale of it is being massively exaggerated to help push through government policy. Government policy is targetting the welfare state as a whole but is using "benefits scroungers" to make it more palatable!

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: "Benefit Scroungers"
     Reply #9 - November 10, 2010, 12:47 PM

    DEATH TO THE WELFARE STATE!!

    DEATH TO BENEFIT SCROUNGERS!!!

    CAPTALISM SHALL CRUSH COMMUNISM!











    ----------------

    Jokes aside (and they are funny jokes to me) what is the reaction from other newspapers? Why is this scandal with the banks and the billionaire boys’ club not being addressed? I'm sure you can send emails to the editorials? Ask them to investigate, to probe, to question.. I would and I will in fact, but not for this matter because I don't know enough about it.

    And btw I love money and I don’t care about any class other than the upper class, to which I will belong to one beautiful day. Don’t take this post as a sign of interest and sympathy for those below us.
  • Re: "Benefit Scroungers"
     Reply #10 - November 10, 2010, 01:26 PM

    There probably are, but in the middle of a recession when there simply aren't enough jobs to go round, is a strange time to be picking on dole claimants.  Why don't they get outraged at the bankers who caused the mess in the first place?


    Why can't they do both, is what I would say.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: "Benefit Scroungers"
     Reply #11 - November 10, 2010, 01:27 PM

    Yeah that is true but the scale of it is being massively exaggerated to help push through government policy. Government policy is targetting the welfare state as a whole but is using "benefits scroungers" to make it more palatable!


    I agree that the rhetoric of The Sun doesn't help things.

    I think some of the work and writing of Frank Field, the Labour MP for Birkenhead has been interesting on welfare reform.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: "Benefit Scroungers"
     Reply #12 - November 10, 2010, 03:31 PM

    Mixu, the problem is, leaving aside the rhetoric and agenda of right wing newspapers, is that there really are people who are swinging the lead and taking the piss out of the social, and one of the things this means is that people who really need it; carers, pensioners, those genuinely unable to work because of illness or disability, don't receive as much as they should. Leave aside The Sun for a moment, there are reforms that are needed in the welfare system.


    Uh-huh, and what percent is that of your government's budget you figure? You may not spend as much on the military, cops and prisons as we do, but I'm still willing to bet it dwarfs spending on welfare cheats, and I'm willing to bet that if your country got its fucking priorities straight it could find the money to pay "those who really need it" "as much as they should" even without cracking down on welfare fraud. In fact, this whole idea that the reason pensioners and the disabled/ill aren't getting as much as they should because of welfare cheats sounds like right-wing propaganda bullshit to me-- they aren't getting as much as they should because that's not what your ruling class wants to spend money on.

    fuck you
  • Re: "Benefit Scroungers"
     Reply #13 - November 10, 2010, 04:28 PM

    in fact in the spending review the benefits for the disabled were cut. this is a non-tabloid view:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/oct/20/spending-review-charities-fear-for-vulnerable


    on a side note, I would add that although China are human rights violating assholes, one of the major reasons they will be economically stable is that only plan to spend a relatively miniscule amount of their budget on 'defence' compared to US/UK

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: "Benefit Scroungers"
     Reply #14 - November 10, 2010, 07:25 PM


    Thankfully its not a zero sum game, Q-Man. Welfare reform is needed, and its not just right wing bogeymen who think that.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: "Benefit Scroungers"
     Reply #15 - November 10, 2010, 08:13 PM

    Thankfully its not a zero sum game, Q-Man.


    Yeah, that was kinda my point.

    Quote
    Welfare reform is needed, and its not just right wing bogeymen who think that.


    Not saying that, but I am saying that the idea that pensioners and the disabled don't get enough benefits because of welfare cheats sounds like right-wing propaganda bullshit to me. It's not welfare-cheats preventing the elderly and disabled from getting better benefits, it's that the ruling class doesn't want to spend the money on it.

    fuck you
  • Re: "Benefit Scroungers"
     Reply #16 - November 10, 2010, 08:31 PM

    Quote
    It's not welfare-cheats preventing the elderly and disabled from getting better benefits, it's that the ruling class doesn't want to spend the money on it.

     

    In some ways its as much a matter of trust and belief in the system as it is an issue of resource allocation.

    A close family member of mine gets £53 pounds a week for caring for her grandmother full time. Cooks, cleans, cares for her. She knows people who are on the fiddle, who receive benefits they are not entitled to. One claiming housing benefit on properties they don't live in, but sub-let informally to get even more money because the landlord is their boyfriend. Another one who is on disability living allowance under the pretence of being severely depressed, despite the fact that she works part time in a pub for cash in hand, and there is nothing wrong with her.

    This kind of thing causes resentment in society, it makes people feel their taxes are being wasted, at some level it detracts from the genuinely needy, and its just not right. The welfare system has to be defended against this, for its own moral health as much as anything else.



    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: "Benefit Scroungers"
     Reply #17 - November 10, 2010, 08:33 PM


    And in case anyone got it twisted, I don't support the kind of rhetoric that The Sun and that type of paper spin over this.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: "Benefit Scroungers"
     Reply #18 - November 10, 2010, 10:44 PM

    Serious reforms are needed. Labour grossly overspent. Welfare so generous & easy to fraud causes a vicious circle, from robbing social workers & NHS staff higher pay to sucking out the productivity of millions of people to even affecting social integration (go check out East London).  Welfare is a tool for society and must be maintained & used correctly.

    Who cares about The Sun?
  • Re: "Benefit Scroungers"
     Reply #19 - November 10, 2010, 10:52 PM

    Why don't they get outraged at the bankers who caused the mess in the first place?


    You cannot be serious ?
  • Re: "Benefit Scroungers"
     Reply #20 - November 10, 2010, 11:07 PM



    In some ways its as much a matter of trust and belief in the system as it is an issue of resource allocation.

    A close family member of mine gets £53 pounds a week for caring for her grandmother full time. Cooks, cleans, cares for her. She knows people who are on the fiddle, who receive benefits they are not entitled to. One claiming housing benefit on properties they don't live in, but sub-let informally to get even more money because the landlord is their boyfriend. Another one who is on disability living allowance under the pretence of being severely depressed, despite the fact that she works part time in a pub for cash in hand, and there is nothing wrong with her.


    Yeah, yeah...we've all got these kinds of stories, even here in the US, where it's a lot harder to cheat the system. Somehow people find a way.

    Quote
    This kind of thing causes resentment in society, it makes people feel their taxes are being wasted, at some level it detracts from the genuinely needy, and its just not right. The welfare system has to be defended against this, for its own moral health as much as anything else.


    I get that billy-- no-one likes a cheat, especially working-class folks who are busting ass, paying into the very system, through their taxes, that finances such folks. But the fact is that it's the people at the top of the food-chain who are calling the shots, and that ruling-class is constantly manipulating the working-class to blame other members of their own class and the underclass for decisions that get made by the rulers. And that's the topic we're on-- the capitalist media whipping up public sentiment against the weakest members of society. This is just one example of it, I named others in my first post above (unions, public sector workers, etc.).

    I'm not saying you don't need to reform your system, maybe you do, but as long as working-class people are so fucking easily manipulated against their own kind in your country, as long as both your major political parties are toeing the corporate line, reducing welfare abuse won't do a damn thing to help people who actually need the benefits. It's not like when AFDC got replaced with TANF here that Americans' SSI payments went up, and "welfare reform" in your country, given the current political situation, will not help anyone either.

    And in case anyone got it twisted, I don't support the kind of rhetoric that The Sun and that type of paper spin over this.


    We're not retards. Your disclaimer is unnecessary.

    Serious reforms are needed.


    Yes, your current socio-economic system and political superstructure needs to be overthrown.

    Quote
    Labour grossly overspent.


    On the wars you support, yes they did.

    Quote
    Welfare so generous


     Roll Eyes You go fucking live on it then if it's so awesome. That's a damn lie.

    You cannot be serious ?


    She is serious. She's not an Uncle Tom suckin on the capitalist dick like you.

    fuck you
  • Re: "Benefit Scroungers"
     Reply #21 - November 10, 2010, 11:25 PM


    Q, the Ministry of Defence in the UK just got its budget cut by 8%. The defence minister did well to fight his corner, the chancellor wanted cuts of 10% or more. Everyone (bar the National Health Service whose money is ringfenced) is having to deal with austerity measures.

    Where it can be reformed and where savings and reduction of false claims (which are estimated to run into billions) can be made in the welfare system it should be done.

    That's not to say I agree with all this governments plans to deal with these issues. But welfare does need to be reformed. Addressing this shouldn't be considered to be a zero sum game, or a reactionary thing to do. Labour should have addressed it themselves. In fact they would have to if they had been re-elected.

     

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: "Benefit Scroungers"
     Reply #22 - November 11, 2010, 12:17 AM

    Nice one, Mixu.

    in fact in the spending review the benefits for the disabled were cut. this is a non-tabloid view:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/oct/20/spending-review-charities-fear-for-vulnerable

    This is already happening. My sister works with severely disabled young people who require round the clock care. They live in special accommodation and carers work overnight shifts as some of them are prone to fits. The management have said that due to the impending cuts they will no longer have the resources to pay for these overnight shifts, putting the young people at higher risk of injury and lowering their quality of life (possibly laying in their own urine / faeces until morning sometimes if they are unable to make it to the commode or bathroom easily).

    I agree that we need benefit reform. Pensioners need to be given dignity, not "winter fuel allowances" or other scraps, for example. The (ideologically motivated) systematic attack on public services presided over by consecutive governments affects the vulnerable (and least able to defend themselves) most critically, these cuts exacerbate the problem that those most likely to need those services are hit the hardest.

    Conservative, Labour, Lib Dem; it's all just branding as far as I'm concerned. The most powerful forces affecting the tide of the (mainstream) political class is big money, imo. New Labour thought they could soften the blows of the neoliberal agenda by social tinkering. We have little more than debt to show for their efforts. Now that there's no more carrot, we're tasting the stick from the ConDems. They won't risk the wrath of the elite by regulating the ulcer currently spreading across London from the financial district; instead, they'll make room for new money by socially cleansing the inner city of its poor population through strategic cuts to welfare.

    Still, the anger is there and it looks as though it's beginning to bubble to the surface...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1500wVkEp30

    Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
    Propagandhi - Failed States
  • Re: "Benefit Scroungers"
     Reply #23 - November 11, 2010, 12:37 AM

    "We are your future" and we are going to break buildings. What a way to show you deserve higher education.  lipsrsealed

    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: "Benefit Scroungers"
     Reply #24 - November 11, 2010, 12:41 AM

    To be fair, it was only a small number of the tens of thousands who were demonstrating.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: "Benefit Scroungers"
     Reply #25 - November 11, 2010, 12:46 AM

    You're right billy, it's just unfortunate that mankind always resorts to violence when it gathers in such numbers to protest something.
    Having said that, it's about time somebody decided that the ideological changes taking place in Britain are totally unwanted.

    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: "Benefit Scroungers"
     Reply #26 - November 11, 2010, 12:56 AM

    "We are your future" and we are going to break buildings. What a way to show you deserve higher education.  lipsrsealed

    Of course, only good boys and girls "deserve" education.

    It's amazing how a few broken windows can evoke the language (and sentiment) of the Daily Mail.

    Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
    Propagandhi - Failed States
  • Re: "Benefit Scroungers"
     Reply #27 - November 11, 2010, 12:57 AM

    You're right billy, it's just unfortunate that mankind always resorts to violence when it gathers in such numbers to protest something.
    Having said that, it's about time somebody decided that the ideological changes taking place in Britain are totally unwanted.

    Fuzzy nonsense.

    Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
    Propagandhi - Failed States
  • Re: "Benefit Scroungers"
     Reply #28 - November 11, 2010, 01:34 AM

    Of course, only good boys and girls "deserve" education.

    It's amazing how a few broken windows can evoke the language (and sentiment) of the Daily Mail.


    Thinkfree, I have nothing against the protest, and my comment was largely tongue-in-cheek as I hoped the smiley would portray. If the comment offended you, I apologise.
    However, I don't think I can ever support an act that involves violence, no matter how good the intentions are. There are wider implications to this - a revolution forged through fear and blood is no revolution at all, it's just a new generation doing what the old one did but better. I am all for education for everyone, free and open, but violence I can never stand and I think I am entitled to that opinion.
    I'm on your side, really, I don't like the state of the modern world much either, but "a few broken windows" isn't how I would try and shape a change.


    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: "Benefit Scroungers"
     Reply #29 - November 11, 2010, 01:50 AM

    Uh-huh, and what percent is that of your government's budget you figure? You may not spend as much on the military, cops and prisons as we do, but I'm still willing to bet it dwarfs spending on welfare cheats, and I'm willing to bet that if your country got its fucking priorities straight it could find the money to pay "those who really need it" "as much as they should" even without cracking down on welfare fraud. In fact, this whole idea that the reason pensioners and the disabled/ill aren't getting as much as they should because of welfare cheats sounds like right-wing propaganda bullshit to me-- they aren't getting as much as they should because that's not what your ruling class wants to spend money on.


    I agree with everything you say here Q-Man.  Afro

    Where-ever there is welfare there will be fraud, it's human nature.  But like Cheetah says, it pales in comparison to the fraudulent activities of the bankers.  finmad

    btw Q-Man, I have to say that your avatar is distracting me - that ginger beard and 'tash look utterly ridiculous with the black/brown hair.  whistling2

    "The greatest general is not the one who can take the most cities or spill the most blood. The greatest general is the one who can take Heaven and Earth without waging the battle." ~ Sun Tzu

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