How did I not realize this as a muslim

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- afghan hassan
- Ex-Muslim
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How did I not realize this as a muslim
OP - May 08, 2016, 05:29 AM

As a muslim we were taught that Allah determines just before a child is born how long he will live and his wealth etc...

What I almost realized but didn't continue thinking about was why is it that people living in the west on average live longer than those in the east. And why do people today live longer on average than 300 years ago. And why is it that when people move from the east to the west, they live on average as long as all the others in the west. It seemed as though people live longer at the same times medicine is available and advanced. It seemed as though people live longer who have access to proper resources for life.

I thought this must be my own intellectual limitations (a muslim in denial), Allah chose to do this, then I wondered why Allah would systematically try to create a situation that is a huge coincidence, why would he try to trick us?

Now looking back I realize that leaving religion is more than just reasoning, it is a mental grapple, my Imaan was chipped away bit by bit even if it would rise occasionally, it was always breaking down. I realize now that when I speak to my muslim friends, if you want people to think you can not come off as arrogant because even if you are not trying to be arrogant, they are in a messed up state where they will make themselves believe that I am arrogant or insane. Rather I should just speak to them as I normally do and every now and then if a conversation moves to Islam I would just bring this up and how I am having trouble grappling with it. I think this is the best way to get people to think, whether or not the leave Islam is irrelevant, I just dont want them living their life on faith; maybe they will hold onto the good of Islam and let go or at least ease off on the Bad Shit Crazy in it.

What have you guys disregarded while believing and now are shocked how close you came to ExMuslim but never made the leap?

As a scientist I can see farther than any human before me by standing on the shoulders of giants (previous scientists); As a religious follower I can not see what is right in-front of me, even when others INDEPENDENTLY see the same thing!
- Ursus
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How did I not realize this as a muslim
Reply #1 - May 08, 2016, 09:25 AM

Yes, it is funny isn't it?

That the über-gawd of them all does not not give his followers the advantage over the infidels?

If he really was so great, you should expect his followers to be (on average) richer, luckier, healthier, have longer life expectancy and so on. Not forgetting a life in peace, freedom and harmony.

But no. The bacon-munching kuffars have all the fun.

That alone should start people thinking, if there was a flaw in the reasoning.

"God works in mysterious ways" and "It is a test of our faith" is a bit thin, isn't it?

To keep up that system, it has to be totalitarian. As soon as you start accepting free thinking and critical questions, it is likely to fall apart.
Thus you need a system of constant fear, peer pressure, mind numbing rituals and in-group/out-group mentality to keep people in line.
(And you need to back it up with a nice mix of threats, violence and the risk of being shunned by your family or sent home to get married to your illiterate uncle or cousin, should your moral need a boost)
- BerberElla
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How did I not realize this as a muslim
Reply #2 - May 09, 2016, 03:29 AM

Whenever I wondered about that or questioned it, I was always told that the reasons those in the West had so much good fortune was because they were to receive their punishments after their death, whereas us wonderful believers would get the good stuff when we died.

It did make sense and it didn't make sense. It made sense because it explained why we suffered, but made no sense since not everyone in the West deserved punishment for something as stupid as not believing. I have always believed that heaven or hell (back when I believed in such concepts) were reached based on behaviours, not on the language one used, or the rituals one performed.

For myself I just can't fathom why I accepted that a man could beat a woman, or why I accepted that a woman wasn't as perfect as a man. It was my biggest issue, and loomed large in my mind all the time. Always always led to doubts, that were always squished down by my desire to believe things that I was told I would never fully understand, and secondly it was squished down by own lack of self esteem. Something that I would argue happens to a lot of muslim girls as they grow up.

How can you believe that you are equal to a man if from the moment you are born you are taught so many things that lead you to the conclusion that even if you feel equal, actually you are not and that is just the devil messing with you.

Reminds me of the Pygmalion effect, in which you become what people believe you to be. Within education it is known that teacher's expectations of students, shape the results they achieve, where you expect higher you get higher, and where you expect the reverse, you get it. This is what Islam does to women. It takes their potential, and teaches them that they have none. At least not in the way they may want it.

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
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