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 Topic: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat

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  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #240 - September 28, 2010, 01:08 PM
    Quote from: a.ghazali on September 28, 2010, 01:05 PM
    Because we have to season it first then cook it and add many spices.

    No we dont.

    Quote from: a.ghazali on September 28, 2010, 01:05 PM
    No other animal cooks their food.

    Ahoy there, Captain Obvious!

    Quote from: a.ghazali on September 28, 2010, 01:05 PM
    Eating meat as a carnivore would would not too appealing to you, I'm sure!

    wat
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #241 - September 28, 2010, 01:10 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on September 28, 2010, 01:04 PM
    I suppose the question boils down to when did this happen, in our early history as humanoids, or in our latter history as greedy oafs

    Evidence for meat consumption goes way back. Hundreds of thousands of years. The "science" is interesting, because on the one hand you have vegans claiming that we should only eat raw fruit and vegetables, and on the other hand you have other people claiming that it was quite likely our ability to eat meat that enabled us to support larger brains easily in a hunter/gatherer situation. Brains are extremely expensive in metabolic terms and meat is a damned good source of some nutrients.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #242 - September 28, 2010, 01:11 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on September 28, 2010, 01:04 PM
    The point is that if we have other ways of killing prey apart from biting it then we do not require canines like a tiger, and therefore the argument that we don't have canines like a tiger is not relevant. We don't need them.


    That's not the point. I was replying to Islame who said we had canines like carnivores. I was just pointing out to him the contrary.

    Also it does not mean that just because we can use weapons that we have somehow become omnivores.

    Quote
    Now you're appealing to emotion. How is feeding people bad, as such? What does eating animals have to do with torturing them?


    We torture them because we take them out of their natural habitat, enclose them in the most inhumane of conditions in battery farms, snuff out their lives long before their lifespan and breed them in the most atrocious manner, just to satisfy our tongues.
    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #243 - September 28, 2010, 01:11 PM
    Quote from: a.ghazali on September 28, 2010, 01:05 PM
    Because we have to season it first then cook it and add many spices.

    Two words: Steak Tartare.



    Quote
    No other animal cooks their food. Eating meat as a carnivore would would not too appealing to you, I'm sure!

    See above.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #244 - September 28, 2010, 01:13 PM
    Quote from: a.ghazali on September 28, 2010, 01:11 PM
    We torture them because we take them out of their natural habitat, enclose them in the most inhumane of conditions in battery farms, snuff out their lives long before their lifespan and breed them in the most atrocious manner, just to satisfy our tongues.

    Those are separate issues. You are mixing up inhumane treatment of animals with eating meat. The two do not necessarily have to go together.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #245 - September 28, 2010, 01:16 PM
    Just double checked on google & wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human#Diet
    Diet - Humans are omnivorous, capable of consuming plant, animal, and inorganic material)

    Nineberry & Ghazali are right, humans are omnivores.

    ETA: I know wiki is not the best source, but on important issues like this its rarely wrong.  And unless I see a peer reviewed document to the contrary then I am happy to go along with it on the basis of the evidence thus far.
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  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #246 - September 28, 2010, 01:16 PM
    accually your body doesnt diffrentiate between animal or plant protein as long as u have the essiential aminoacids .. it simply doesnt... and in the case of metabolism ATP is at play and that comes from basic constiuents glucose , F.A and aminoacids not from meat ... ur body builds its own proteins(self) from such constiuents .... not from whole chains of proteins ingested

    so its goes down to this ... u have the necessary constituents u live and grow u dont u die ... the source doesnt matter if the essentials are there
    Confucius:
    "What you do not like done to yourself, do not unto others."
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #247 - September 28, 2010, 01:16 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on September 28, 2010, 01:11 PM
    Two words: Steak Tartare.

    To be fair, steak tartare is still marinated and spiced and served with other vegetables as accompliment. Given a choice between raw fruit / veg and raw meat alone I know which I'd prefer taste-wise, although discussions on our modern salt and sugar obsessed pallates is probably veering off topic a little.  whistling2
    Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
    Propagandhi - Failed States
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #248 - September 28, 2010, 01:19 PM
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 01:16 PM
    To be fair, steak tartare is still marinated and spiced and served with other vegetables as accompliment. Given a choice between raw fruit / veg and raw meat alone I know which I'd prefer taste-wise, although discussions on our modern salt and sugar obsessed pallates is probably veering off topic a little.  whistling2

    And this is back to the false dichotomies. Nobody is claiming that humans should eat meat alone. The claim is that in moderation it can be a good thing as part of a balanced diet.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #249 - September 28, 2010, 01:19 PM
    I actually like a bit of blood in my steak. Backtrack a few thousand years, and I’d probably be happy chowing down on a bit of raw meat, blissfully unaware of the pleasures of Sunday roasts and summer barbeques.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #250 - September 28, 2010, 01:21 PM
    Quote from: tabun on September 28, 2010, 12:29 PM
    so let me get this straight we shouldnt kill an animal (esp if its a sentient beings with a well  developed nervous system) in order to eat it (even if its a painless death) ... as it is morally wrong to do so?? i am guessing morally wrong to do so in developed countries (no starvations there) ... so developed countries should live without animal meat (eventually)??


    Are you suggesting that in under developed countries meat is a necessity? I don't understand he logic. It is more 20 times costly to produce a pound of animal protein than it is to produce vegetable protein.

    Under-developed countries need to move more to a vegetable based diet than one centred on meat. Meat is considered a luxury and has only become widespread today in affluent countires in the last 100 years with the help of industrialised farming methods. Prior to that meat was a treat because it is too costly to produce.

    Quote
    and is fish, poultry out of the equation?


    Yes.
    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #251 - September 28, 2010, 01:22 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on September 28, 2010, 01:10 PM
    Evidence for meat consumption goes way back. Hundreds of thousands of years. The "science" is interesting, because on the one hand you have vegans claiming that we should only eat raw fruit and vegetables, and on the other hand you have other people claiming that it was quite likely our ability to eat meat that enabled us to support larger brains easily in a hunter/gatherer situation. Brains are extremely expensive in metabolic terms and meat is a damned good source of some nutrients.

    Not all vegans claim that or indeed maintain raw diets. Eating meat may well have contributed to our larger cranial capacities whilst stronger men having sex with any woman they wanted may have led to us having better physiques. The way our ancestors may or may not have behaved doesn't constitute some timeless moral basis for the way we should live. Might either makes right or it doesn't.
    Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
    Propagandhi - Failed States
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #252 - September 28, 2010, 01:22 PM
    dont get me wrong here i am not a vegan .... but i think its clear what a vegan prespective is " why kill an animal if u dont NEED to kill it , makes u morally unsound" as what ur looking for here is just the taste and nothing else
    Confucius:
    "What you do not like done to yourself, do not unto others."
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #253 - September 28, 2010, 01:23 PM
    Quote from: a.ghazali on September 28, 2010, 01:21 PM
    Are you suggesting that in under developed countries meat is a necessity? I don't understand he logic. It is more 20 times costly to produce a pound of animal protein than it is to produce vegetable protein.

    Under-developed countries need to move more to a vegetable based diet than one centred on meat. Meat is considered a luxury and has only become widespread today in affluent countires in the last 100 years with the help of industrialised farming methods. Prior to that meat was a treat because it is too costly to produce.

    Yes.



    no what i am suggesting is that they should eat watever they lay their hands on and they are not morally obligated, if such a moral obligation ever exsist ...
    hence the fish and poultry question
    Confucius:
    "What you do not like done to yourself, do not unto others."
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #254 - September 28, 2010, 01:24 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on September 28, 2010, 01:19 PM
    And this is back to the false dichotomies. Nobody is claiming that humans should eat meat alone. The claim is that in moderation it can be a good thing as part of a balanced diet.

    Except it's not a false dichotomy, just a personal preference and stated as such qualified by the quip about our modern pallates. Besides, bits of human flesh could be just as good as part of a balanced diet.
    Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
    Propagandhi - Failed States
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #255 - September 28, 2010, 01:25 PM
    Quote from: a.ghazali on September 28, 2010, 01:21 PM
    Under-developed countries need to move more to a vegetable based diet than one centred on meat. Meat is considered a luxury and has only become widespread today in affluent countires in the last 100 years with the help of industrialised farming methods. Prior to that meat was a treat because it is too costly to produce.


    Agriculture is a relatively recent development in the primate world also.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #256 - September 28, 2010, 01:27 PM
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 01:24 PM
    Besides, bits of human flesh could be just as good as part of a balanced diet.

    You offering? Yum Yum
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  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #257 - September 28, 2010, 01:27 PM
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 01:22 PM
    Not all vegans claim that or indeed maintain raw diets. Eating meat may well have contributed to our larger cranial capacities whilst stronger men having sex with any woman they wanted may have led to us having better physiques.

    Two points here. First, if eating meat is beneficial for our metabolism (in moderation) as would be implied by the brains thing, then doesn't this make us omnivores?

    Second, the whole men having sex with whoever they wanted bit is quite likely more mythological than factual. The ancient cultures we know of tend to regulate sex, not provide a free for all. 
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #258 - September 28, 2010, 01:28 PM
    Quote
    Second, the whole men having sex with whoever they wanted bit is quite likely more mythological than factual


    Not in my legendary case.

    Carry on.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #259 - September 28, 2010, 01:30 PM
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 01:24 PM
    Except it's not a false dichotomy, just a personal preference and stated as such qualified by the quip about our modern pallates. Besides, bits of human flesh could be just as good as part of a balanced diet.


    That's my whole point. It does not mean that just because we can do something that it makes it right to do it. Human meat would be just as easily digestible and beneficial to us as sheep or cow. We can also develop the tools necessary to obtain human meat easily, but that not give us the right.
    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #260 - September 28, 2010, 01:32 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on September 28, 2010, 01:27 PM
    Two points here. First, if eating meat is beneficial for our metabolism (in moderation) as would be implied by the brains thing, then doesn't this make us omnivores?


    Carnivores have smaller brains than herbivores. So such theories are based on ignorance. If meat made our brains evolve bigger, it should also have had the same effect on carnivores.
    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #261 - September 28, 2010, 01:32 PM
    Quote from: Ishina on September 28, 2010, 01:25 PM
    Agriculture is a relatively recent development in the primate world also.

    And not necessarily a beneficial one either. Archaeological evidence indicates that the change from hunter/gatherers to agriculture made for less healthy people. 
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #262 - September 28, 2010, 01:33 PM
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 01:24 PM
    Except it's not a false dichotomy, just a personal preference and stated as such qualified by the quip about our modern pallates. Besides, bits of human flesh could be just as good as part of a balanced diet.

    True, they could, and were used as such in quite a few cultures. Humans are tasty and nutritious.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #263 - September 28, 2010, 01:34 PM
    Quote from: Ishina on September 28, 2010, 01:25 PM
    Agriculture is a relatively recent development in the primate world also.


    Being herbivores, has nothing to do with us developing agriculture. Like all other herbivores we as animals would have eaten from the resources in our surrounding.
    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #264 - September 28, 2010, 01:36 PM
    Quote from: a.ghazali on September 28, 2010, 01:30 PM
    That's my whole point. It does not mean that just because we can do something that it makes it right to do it. Human meat would be just as easily digestible and beneficial to us as sheep or cow. We can also develop the tools necessary to obtain human meat easily, but that not give us the right.

    It also does not make it right, just because its suits us practically.

    Provided permission is granted, we could eat human roadkill or dead bodies ethically, and it would also be the most enviromental sound method of disposing of our "waste"...

    but we dont, because of course, eating hominid flesh is disgusting  Roll Eyes
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  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #265 - September 28, 2010, 01:36 PM
    Quote from: a.ghazali on September 28, 2010, 01:32 PM
    Carnivores have smaller brains than herbivores. So such theories are based on ignorance. If meat made our brains evolve bigger, it should also have had the same effect on carnivores.

    Carnivores tend to be smarter than herbivores. This is because catching animals is somewhat more difficult than catching grass. Carnivores also do not have smaller brains when you take body size into account. Sure, lions have smaller brains than elephants but there's a reason for that.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #266 - September 28, 2010, 01:36 PM
    I thought eating the flesh of your own species produces stuff like mad cow disease, or is that just an old wives tale to discourage cannibalism, the spoilsports.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #267 - September 28, 2010, 01:37 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on September 28, 2010, 01:36 PM
    It also does not make it right, just because its suits us practically.

    Provided permission is granted, we could eat human roadkill or dead bodies ethically, and it would also be the most enviromental sound method of disposing of our "waste"...

    but we dont, because of course, eating hominid flesh is disgusting  Roll Eyes

    Yes but the disgust is only cultural.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #268 - September 28, 2010, 01:38 PM
    Quote from: a.ghazali on September 28, 2010, 01:34 PM
    Being herbivores, has nothing to do with us developing agriculture. Like all other herbivores we as animals would have eaten from the resources in our surrounding.


    Yeah, and being omnivorous meant that meat would have been one of those resources.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #269 - September 28, 2010, 01:38 PM
     meat makes u smarter


    so any evidence for that ??
    Confucius:
    "What you do not like done to yourself, do not unto others."
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