Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat

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Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
OP - September 27, 2010, 04:58 AM

The supermarkets and fast-food outlets said they did not feel the need to tell customers that meat is halal because the slaughter conformed to Western standards, with animals stunned before being killed....The Muslim slaughterman murmurs the Islamic verse as thousands of chickens whir towards him on a conveyor belt hung from the ceiling. FULL ARTICLE

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Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
Reply #1 - September 27, 2010, 05:43 AM

It's disappointing to be honest... I used to work in KFC (it was my first job as a wee little teenager), and I asked my manager if we killed the chickens humanely after I watched this documentary called Kentucky Fried Cruelty or something. The manager said, "of course, we kill it to the standards of Muslims so it is humane". Of course, because I was so young, I thought that halal must be some very humane and peaceful way of killing the animal so I left the conversation very happy.

Animal cruelty is something I care a lot about, I don't think the animal welfare standards should be compromised or bent to satisfy people's superstitious and ritualistic thinking...
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Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
Reply #2 - September 27, 2010, 06:42 AM

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Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
Reply #3 - September 27, 2010, 09:44 AM

Quote from: DH on September 27, 2010, 04:58 AM
The supermarkets and fast-food outlets said they did not feel the need to tell customers that meat is halal because the slaughter conformed to Western standards, with animals stunned before being killed....The Muslim slaughterman murmurs the Islamic verse as thousands of chickens whir towards him on a conveyor belt hung from the ceiling. FULL ARTICLE

Oh noes! Someone cut the throat of this chicken I just bought to eat and said some shit about Allah whilst doing it!

The only consumers who should be concerned about this are Sikhs, who are forbidden by their own irrational dietary laws from consuming halal meat. The other consumers, if they're worried about such shit, should do one of three things:

(1) Become vegetarians

(2) At the very least be more careful in the meats they buy. Buy free-range shit from small farms they know are humane, rather than just carelessly buying any old meat they happen to find in the supermarket.

(3) Shut the fuck up and count their blessings they ain't starving

Quote from: Unechance on September 27, 2010, 05:43 AM
Animal cruelty is something I care a lot about, I don't think the animal welfare standards should be compromised or bent to satisfy people's superstitious and ritualistic thinking...

Similarly my consumption habits (or anyone's) should not be dictated by YOUR petit-bourgeois moral concerns.

Quote from: Mount A Bison on September 27, 2010, 06:42 AM
Who is Peter Singer? The ~~finest moral philosopher~~ biggest douchebag alive.

Fixed

fuck you
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Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
Reply #4 - September 27, 2010, 09:57 AM

+1
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Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
Reply #5 - September 27, 2010, 10:05 AM

Dh, are you a real person?! I can't believe that anyone can be so monomanical, boring and stupid!

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Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
Reply #6 - September 27, 2010, 10:12 AM

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Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
Reply #7 - September 27, 2010, 10:15 AM

Quote from: DH on September 27, 2010, 04:58 AM
The supermarkets and fast-food outlets said they did not feel the need to tell customers that meat is halal because the slaughter conformed to Western standards, with animals stunned before being killed....The Muslim slaughterman murmurs the Islamic verse as thousands of chickens whir towards him on a conveyor belt hung from the ceiling.

Do the chickens give a shit?

The only real issue I can see with this is if they* are refusing to give equal job opportunities to people who aren't Muslim. The whole chicken-snuffing trade in the UK shouldn't rely on belonging to a particular religion.

*the abbatoir, not the chickens.

Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West.
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Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
Reply #8 - September 27, 2010, 12:36 PM

Quote
meat is halal because the slaughter conformed to Western standards, with animals stunned before being killed

Wait a minute. What is going on here. I thought halal meat was meat slaughtered after the Arabic prayer was uttered. If the meat is stunned, is the prayer valid? Or has some convenient caveat been found? Doesn't the animal have to be sentient as the words are uttered, so that it can relax knowing it has been blessed by Allah?

Either some halal meat suppliers are running a scam, or Muslims are eating alot of meat not slaughtered in accordance with their silly ritual, or something fishy is going on.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

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Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
Reply #9 - September 27, 2010, 12:54 PM

Quote from: Q-Man
The only consumers who should be concerned about this are Sikhs, who are forbidden by their own irrational dietary laws from consuming halal meat.

The other consumers, if they're worried about such shit.

(1) Become vegetarians

(2) At the very least be more careful in the meats they buy. Buy free-range shit from small farms they know are humane, rather than just carelessly buying any old meat they happen to find in the supermarket.

(3) Shut the fuck up and count their blessings they ain't starving.

You don't think the supplier should have set up separate slaughter facilities for the benefit of halal consuming and non-halal-consuming people?

Quote
Similarly my consumption habits (or anyone's) should not be dictated by YOUR petit-bourgeois moral concerns.

What are your "consumption habits" exactly?

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Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
Reply #10 - September 27, 2010, 01:07 PM

I can see how consumers of halal only meat would have an issue with how animals are slaughtered but how would it matter to non-halal consumers? Please tell me your qualms are more than just a bunch of religious words.
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Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
Reply #11 - September 27, 2010, 01:20 PM

Quote from: Mixu Paatelainen on September 27, 2010, 10:05 AM
Dh, are you a real person?! I can't believe that anyone can be so monomanical, boring and stupid!

Are you a real EX-Muslim? You seem prone to characteristically Islamic "debating" tactics like ad hominem attacks against people who raise issues you perhaps would prefer not to think about. Perhaps you would like to engage with this topic more constructively and tell us if you agree with Q-man that non-Muslim UK meat consumers who might be inclined to vocally object to having halal meat sneaked into their food supply should in fact "shut the fuck up" and meekly accept this fait accompli like good little dhimmis.

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Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
Reply #12 - September 27, 2010, 01:31 PM

Quote from: Q-Man on September 27, 2010, 09:44 AM
Similarly my consumption habits (or anyone's) should not be dictated by YOUR petit-bourgeois moral concerns.

I think animal welfare standards should apply universally without the fuzzy grey area where people say their religion makes it acceptable to slaughter their animal in an inhumane way.

Quote
In the United States, there is the Humane Slaughter Act of 1958, a law requiring that all swine, sheep, cattle, and horses be stunned unconscious with just one application of a stunning device by a trained person before being shackled and hoisted up on the line. This act, like those in many countries, exempts slaughter in accordance to religious law, such as kosher shechita and dhabiĥa halal. Most strict interpretations of kashrut require that the animal be fully sensible when its carotid artery is cut.

What is the point of having these welfare standards to ensure that an animal is humanely slaughtered if that law can be non-existent if people claim that their religion says otherwise?

Not really about me, it is about the standards set out and applied to everyone... except of course religious people because we don't want to offend them.

I agree that the idea of morals is subjective, my own morals are different than another persons. However, living animals, like humans, ideally should be regulated in the slaughter industry and have the same welfare standards applied universally...

Quote
I can see how consumers of halal only meat would have an issue with how animals are slaughtered but how would it matter to non-halal consumers? Please tell me your qualms are more than just a bunch of religious words.

A halal-only meat-eater would like to satisfy their religious rules even if it bypasses the welfare standards / regulations set out in a country. A non-halal meat-eater would prefer to know that their animal was humanely killed. You can't see how someone would not have a qualm over not knowing how their meat was killed, and if it was humane or not? How silly of you.
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Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
Reply #13 - September 27, 2010, 01:33 PM

Quote from: Ferrero on September 27, 2010, 01:07 PM
I can see how consumers of halal only meat would have an issue with how animals are slaughtered

So can I. But unlike some here I have no sympathy with their idiotic reasons. That is because I do not think that someone's desire for something is imbued with a special validity because it is desired for a RELIGIOUS reason. If someone wants to belong to a sick religion that imposes stupid restrictions on what they can eat, wear or whatever that is THEIR problem. The rest of us are under no moral obligation to bend over backwards to accommodate them - least of all when that religion is not so accommodating to non-members wherever it is in a position of political power. What say you?

Quote
but how would it matter to non-halal consumers? Please tell me your qualms are more than just a bunch of religious words.

Let us suppose they simply regard it as an unwanted imposition upon them? What would you say to that? I don't eat meat myself btw.

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Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
Reply #14 - September 27, 2010, 01:33 PM

does this mean the Big Macs and quater pounders i've been scoffing lately are teh halal. lol

Quote from: Q-Man on September 27, 2010, 09:44 AM
Oh noes! Someone cut the throat of this chicken I just bought to eat and said some shit about Allah whilst doing it!

The only consumers who should be concerned about this are Sikhs, who are forbidden by their own irrational dietary laws from consuming halal meat. The other consumers, if they're worried about such shit, should do one of three things:

(1) Become vegetarians

(2) At the very least be more careful in the meats they buy. Buy free-range shit from small farms they know are humane, rather than just carelessly buying any old meat they happen to find in the supermarket.

(3) Shut the fuck up and count their blessings they ain't starving

Similarly my consumption habits (or anyone's) should not be dictated by YOUR petit-bourgeois moral concerns.

Fixed

gotta love the Q-man sometimes (ok most of the time).

(ok all the time).

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Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
Reply #15 - September 27, 2010, 01:38 PM

Quote from: Ferrero on September 27, 2010, 01:07 PM
I can see how consumers of halal only meat would have an issue with how animals are slaughtered but how would it matter to non-halal consumers? Please tell me your qualms are more than just a bunch of religious words.

Ferrero, is the meat being stunned before the Arabic is said? If so, that isn't Halal meat at all is it?

Like I said in my post above, there is some kind of scam going on here. Someone is being lied to.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
Reply #16 - September 27, 2010, 01:42 PM

Quote this post
Quote from: Ferrero on Today at 02:07 PM
I can see how consumers of halal only meat would have an issue with how animals are slaughtered

Quote
So can I. But unlike some here I have no sympathy with their idiotic reasons. That is because I do not think that someone's desire for something is imbued with a special validity because it is desired for a RELIGIOUS reason. If someone wants to belong to a sick religion that imposes stupid restrictions on what they can eat, wear or whatever that is THEIR problem. The rest of us are under no moral obligation to bend over backwards to accommodate them - least of all when that religion is not so accommodating to non-members wherever it is in a position of political power. What say you?

How are these supermarkets 'bending over backwards'? If they were, they would have more money by stating that lots of their meat was actually Halal and hence draw in the Muslim consumer aswell. Afterall, it's a business isn't it. But no, they didn't. Majority of NZ's lamb outsourced is Halal so to buy NZ lamb it's going to be halal; they're (ie. the supermarkets) are not going out of their way to accomodate for a particular group.

We've spoken before about your intolerance of Muslims and different religious convictionsm and you're doing the same here. Rub some brain cells together and things may start to look alittle less sinister and you may feel better for it.

Quote
Let us suppose they regard it as an unwanted imposition upon them? What would you say to that? I don't eat meat myself btw.

What 'unwanted imposition'? See above point to address the rest of this feeble point.
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Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
Reply #17 - September 27, 2010, 01:42 PM

Quote from: billy on September 27, 2010, 01:38 PM
Ferrero, is the meat being stunned before the Arabic is said? If so, that isn't Halal meat at all is it?

Like I said in my post above, there is some kind of scam going on here. Someone is being lied to.

I think some Muslims are okey with animals being stunned so long as that isn't how it is killed, just immobalised.
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Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
Reply #18 - September 27, 2010, 01:44 PM

Quote from: abuyunus2
gotta love the Q-man sometimes (ok most of the time) (ok all the time).

And I am sure, Muslim, that your love for him is fully reciprocated. You have a particular soft spot for the followers of Muhammad don't you Q?

So tell us, Muslim, do regard it as desirable that the day will come when the sharia of Allah rules supreme over the entirety of Allah's earth?

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Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
Reply #19 - September 27, 2010, 01:45 PM

Ferrero, I answered your question too. I am curious as to how you believe that a Muslim would have a genuine concern about how their meat is killed and if it is halal or not, but somehow as a non-Muslim, I shouldn't care about how my own meat was killed. It just seems like a silly logic.

I want to know how my animal was killed, and I'd prefer my animal is killed humanely and according to the welfare standards rather than according to someone's religious standards that bypass the measures we have in place to minimise suffering. I think I have a genuine reason to want to know how my animal is killed.
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Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
Reply #20 - September 27, 2010, 01:48 PM

Unenchance- how'd you think people killed their lifestuck before stunning became the norm? One could argue that kiling animals for personal gratification i.e. yummy food, is an inhumane practice in itself. Halal and kosher slaughter is not anymore inhumane than typical slaugher practices. I doubt majority of people are jumping up and down because of 'inhumane killing' reasons but because 'Halal' is a 'Muslim' issue and Muslim issues should automatically be judged with distrust.
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Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
Reply #21 - September 27, 2010, 01:55 PM

I think you'd find that a lot of people would have a problem with halal food, as with kosher, for the same reason why people prefer to buy free-range eggs or for the same reason why people want to know where their animals are killed or how. The amount of people I get at work who come in and ask for free-range food only.

It's illogical and quite cringe-worthy to make the assumption that, "oh, you don't like halal meat?" becomes a, "why don't you like Muslims?" issue. It's almost as embarrassing as those people who say that criticising Islam is being racist. I don't like halal food because I think the standards we have in place right now to ensure that an animal is stunned is there for a reason to ensure that a minimum amount of pain is inflicted on an animal.
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Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
Reply #22 - September 27, 2010, 01:55 PM

Quote from: Ferrero
How are these supermarkets 'bending over backwards'?

Correct me if I am wrong, but you seemed to have a problem with non-Muslims having a problem with having halal meat being sneaked into their food supply without their say-so. Was I incorrect in ascertaining this? Please clarify.

Quote
We've spoken before about your intolerance of Muslims and different religious convictionsm

So you have. So objecting to halal meat being sneaked into the food supply of non-Muslims is being "intolerant" of Muslims is is?

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Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
Reply #23 - September 27, 2010, 01:55 PM

Quote from: Ferrero on September 27, 2010, 01:42 PM
I think some Muslims are okey with animals being stunned so long as that isn't how it is killed, just immobalised.

If its only some, then some Muslims are being given meat which they think is halal, which isn't halal.

As I said, there is some big time bullshitting going on here, and when issues of strict liability are in play (Muslims dietary demands are non negotiable, at least that is what Muslims keep saying), then it is incredible that there could be this doubt over methodology.

Seriously, this whole thing is a big, big scam.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

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Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
Reply #24 - September 27, 2010, 01:57 PM

@ DH:

This is nothing about tolerating Muslim practices like you are making it out to be. Go re-read what i wrote and then come back with a more coherant response.
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Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
Reply #25 - September 27, 2010, 01:58 PM

Quote from: billy on September 27, 2010, 01:55 PM
If its only some, then some Muslims are being given meat which they think is halal, which isn't halal.

As I said, there is some big time bullshitting going on here, and when issues of strict liability are in play (Muslims dietary demands are non negotiable, at least that is what Muslims keep saying), then it is incredible that there could be this doubt over methodology.

Seriously, this whole thing is a big, big scam.

There maybe an element of truth in what you have to say. If I were a Muslim I wouldn't be rushing to Asda to get some non-halal labelled lamb on the back of this.
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Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
Reply #26 - September 27, 2010, 02:00 PM

Quote
There maybe an element of truth in what you have to say. If I were a Muslim I wouldn't be rushing to Asda to get some non-halal labelled lamb on the back of this.

Well, for a start, it calls into question the judgment of whichever authority validates halal slaughter.

Like I said, the whole thing sounds like a scam.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
Reply #27 - September 27, 2010, 02:04 PM

Quote from: Unechance
Ferrero, I answered your question too. I am curious as to how you believe that a Muslim would have a genuine concern about how their meat is killed and if it is halal or not, but somehow as a non-Muslim, I shouldn't care about how my own meat was killed.

It is called "applying a double standard" - a common practice of Muslims which some ostensibly EX-members of the faith do not seemed to have been able to discard. Let us suppose - as Q-man would have it - that non-Muslim objection to eating halal meat is totally "irrational". I say, so is Muslims' objection to eating non-halal. The question then is: whose irrationality should carry the day? Muslim or non-Muslim? If, for reasons of cost, a meat supplier is not willing to make provision for both irrationalities which should take precedence?:

the Muslim irrational desire for halal?

OR

the non-Muslim "irrational" desire for non-halal?

And why?

Q-man? Anybody?

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Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
Reply #28 - September 27, 2010, 02:07 PM

I didn't say it was irrational for non-Muslims to not want to eat Halal meat but what I do find irrational is how people like you, DH, are making it into a 'Muslim' issue with the this-evil-faith-with-it's-ridiculous-practices-should-not-be-tolerated- line. Cut that out and we may have something worth talking about.
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Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
Reply #29 - September 27, 2010, 02:08 PM

Quote from: Ferrero on September 27, 2010, 01:57 PM
This is nothing about tolerating Muslim practices like you are making it out to be.

Why then did you raise the matter in the context of this subject of my alleged "intolerance"?

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