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 Topic: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat

 (Read 68546 times)
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  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #30 - September 27, 2010, 02:11 PM

    Wow, short attention span DH? I called your intolerance on this quote:

    Quote
    But unlike some here I have no sympathy with their idiotic reasons. That is because I do not think that someone's desire for something is imbued with a special validity because it is desired for a RELIGIOUS reason. If someone wants to belong to a sick religion that imposes stupid restrictions on what they can eat, wear or whatever that is THEIR problem. The rest of us are under no moral obligation to bend over backwards to accommodate them - least of all when that religion is not so accommodating to non-members wherever it is in a position of political power.


    Like I said, a business wants to make as much money as it can, and they could have done that by openly saying that their meat is Halal and bought in the extra customers yet they didn't. You and a bunch of warmongering islamophobes are the only ones making this a big 'islam is nasty' issue.
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #31 - September 27, 2010, 02:12 PM

    Quote from: "Ferrero"
    I didn't say it was irrational for non-Muslims to not want to eat Halal meat


    So you sympathize with non-Muslims who might object for WHATEVER reason to having the provision of the meat they eat subject to the sharia without their say-so?

    Quote
    but what I do find irrational is how people like you, DH, are making it into a 'Muslim' issue  with the  this-evil-faith-with-it's-ridiculous-practices-should-not-be-tolerated- line.


    You don't agree that Islam is:

    a) an evil faith

    b) imposes ridiculous practices on its adherents
    ?

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #32 - September 27, 2010, 02:16 PM

    Quote
    So you sympathize with non-Muslims who might object for WHATEVER reason to having the provision of the meat they eat subject to the sharia without their say-so?

    No, not for whatever reason. I will not sympathise on racist, intolerant reasoning fronts.

    Quote
    You don't agree that Islam is:
    a) an evil faith
    b) imposes ridiculous practices on its adherents
    ?

    Something you find ridiculous may not be shared by others. Obviously I do not like Islam, or think that any other religion is divinely guided for that matter, but then again I do not like mango's or mussles; I am not going to start hating on all fruits for the sake of a few fruits I don't like or ban the import of shell fish because mussles maybe one of them. You're blinded by hate to the extent you are letting that cloud your judgement andthat, sir, is not good.
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #33 - September 27, 2010, 02:21 PM

    Hm, so let's look at the facts that the Daily Heil actually presents:



    Leaving out ASDA which didn't answer the inquiry, we have the following picture:

    None of the supermarket chains sell halal beef that is not explicitly advertised as being halal.
    None!

    One of six supermarket chains might sell "up to 5%" of the chicken as halal chicken without explicitly advertising it as halal.

    "Up to 5%" at one of six!

    Most lamb sold is halal lamb. Which certainly can be explained by the fact that muslims eat more Lamb than non-muslims so that most lamb customers demand halal lamb.

    If large scale meat producers consider this, they will offer halal meat and because producing both halal and non-halal meat would increase costs, they only produce halal meat.

    That's not "bending backwards to accommodate muslims". That's market economy!



    Also, the reason for this article has nothing to do with religion. This is lobbyism for small abattoirs.

    The author (Dr Richard North) is paid by the "Small Abattoirs Association." and his message is this:

    Quote
    And there is only one real reason: profit. The reality of modern meat production, both here and abroad, is that most animals are killed in vast, modern slaughterhouses.

    Once there were small, specialist kosher and halal producers, but now the trade has been taken over by industrial concerns. To cover the increasing demand for halal meat, these corporate slaughterhouses have either had to introduce halal methods or buy in halal meat from specialist butchers.

    [...]

    The UK has draconian regulation, far more rigorous than in the rest of Europe. But this was supported by the large slaughterhouses which thought that closing down smaller competition would increase their market share and profit margins. In this country, the combined pressure of regulation and the greed of commercial producers have ensured local butchers are now rare, and local slaughterhouses even rarer. And it is the massive factory abattoir, hidden from sight, that perpetrate these practices.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1315278/Top-supermarkets-secretly-sell-halal-Sainsburys-Tesco-Waitrose-M-S-dont-tell-meat-ritually-slaughtered.html

    So, this is a lobbyist for small abattoirs telling people to stop buying meat from "big business" by making them afraid.

  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #34 - September 27, 2010, 02:22 PM

    Like I said, a business wants to make as much money as it can, and they could have done that by openly saying that their meat is Halal and bought in the extra customers yet they didn't.


    I would imagine the suppliers in question might be rather concerned that being open about the nature of the product they are peddling might LOSE them sales from outraged non-Muslims. The fact is, the NewZealand supplier of the lamb in question has made a deliberate choice in turning his operation entirely over to halal to meet "Muslim demand". If Muslims weren't DEMANDING HALAL MEAT to obey the sick religion they CHOOSE to belong to then we wouldn't have this problem.

    Quote
    You and a bunch of warmongering islamophobes are the only ones making this a big 'islam is nasty' issue.


    Well Islam, whether you want to acknowledge it or not IS nasty to its very core.

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #35 - September 27, 2010, 02:26 PM

    Quote from: Ferrero
    No, not for whatever reason. I will not sympathise on racist, intolerant reasoning fronts.


    Do you think "racism" informs the greater part of non-Muslim objection to having halal sneaked into their meat supply?


    Quote
    Something you find ridiculous may not be shared by others. Obviously I do not like Islam, or think that any other religion is divinely guided for that matter, but then again I do not like mango's or mussles; I am not going to start hating on all fruits for the sake of a few fruits I don't like or ban the import of shell fish because mussles maybe one of them. You're blinded by hate to the extent you are letting that cloud your judgement andthat, sir, is not good.


    Thank you for that ever so apt analogy!  wacko

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #36 - September 27, 2010, 02:33 PM

    @ DH:

    Unless you're  a total idiot and think the fluffy animals you like to pet on the farms miraciously appear on your plate, unscathed, then I don't the uproar is going to be as big as you make it out to be.

    You sound like a broken record and your level of intolerance is sickening. And you use the studentforum.co.uk as a representative of how the Muslim population is demanding halal meat? Last time I checked, Muslim butchers operate in Muslim populated areas and even some of the bigger supermarkets have their 'halal' range outsourced from halal butchers. The total population of Muslims in this country is less than 1% of the total UK population* so this move of the big supermarkets to stock halal meat isn't down to Muslims in the UK demanding that it be stocked. Is lamb the only thing Muslims eat? My mum cooks quite a bit of chicken but I don't see a high % of chicken stock being halal in these supermarkets in question.  It's simple economics not some need to tolerate the evil Muslims.


    Lets just be done with meat altogether and become vegetarians than maybe the world will be a more humane place.
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #37 - September 27, 2010, 02:34 PM

    And I am sure, Muslim, that your love for him is fully reciprocated. You have a particular soft spot for the followers of Muhammad don't you Q?



    ROFL. you should do comedy


    Quote
    So tell us, Muslim, do regard it as desirable that the day will come when the sharia of Allah rules supreme over the entirety of Allah's earth?


    my friends call me Muslim. but to you I'm abuyunus2 - and don't you be fergetting the 2

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #38 - September 27, 2010, 02:36 PM

    Quote
    Do you think "racism" informs the greater part of non-Muslim objection to having halal sneaked into their meat supply?

    I think it's down to fear and over simplification of relatively unknown slaughter practice. In recent years  a lot of 'Muslim' issues have been associated with 'evil' things so in majority of cases I think it is a knee jerk reaction. I really hope that majority of non-Muslims who object to halal meat are not like you, in which case, yes, racism would be the reason.
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #39 - September 27, 2010, 02:38 PM

    abuyunus dance Btw, I don't think maccy d's serve halal meat however I have seen an increasing number of non-Muslims eating big mac's there (hijab and jilbab, and all). DH, something else you need to get onto your local MP about, mate. The hijab and jilbab are very offensive to the Western way of living.

    *quacks*
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #40 - September 27, 2010, 02:39 PM

    And I am sure, Muslim, that your love for him is fully reciprocated. You have a particular soft spot for the followers of Muhammad don't you Q?

    So tell us, Muslim, do regard it as desirable that the day will come when the sharia of Allah rules supreme over the entirety of Allah's earth?


    Would you kindly address people by their chosen usernames, and not by the name of their religion?  And don't start whining about political correctness either, I'd say exactly the same if you took to addressing ygalg as "Jew" - its just plain rude.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #41 - September 27, 2010, 02:50 PM

    Quote from: Ferrero
    @ DH:

    Unless you're  a total idiot and think the fluffy animals you like to pet on the farms miraciously appear on your plate, unscathed, then I don't the uproar is going to be as big as you make it out to be.


    I don't eat meat buddy. And yes, I agree there is no totally "humane" way of killing anything.

    Quote
    You sound like a broken record and your level of intolerance is sickening....


    And your repetition of the mantra that I sound like a broken record sounds like a broken record.

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #42 - September 27, 2010, 02:51 PM

    I think it's down to fear and over simplification of relatively unknown slaughter practice.


    The problem is, it doesn't seem clear what this slaughter process is, exactly. That means that Muslims might potentially be being served meat that isn't halal at all, which calls into question the whole purpose of halal to begin with.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #43 - September 27, 2010, 02:54 PM

    Quote from: abuyunus2
    my friends call me Muslim. but to you I'm abuyunus2 - and don't you be fergetting the 2


    What, ain't I your friend? BTW could you please address the other part of my post to you regarding whether you think it is desirable that the law of Allah should prevail over the whole earth?

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #44 - September 27, 2010, 02:54 PM

    This is what one commenter below the Dailiy Heil article writes:

    Quote
    ASDA dare not comment wether it sells halal or not I USED to live in a highly popoulated muslim area We had a nearby Tesco, Morrisons and Asda Beleive me the majority of muslims shop in Asda out of the 3 of them,but mainly they will shop at their own wholesalers So I don't even know why the supermarkets pander to them in the first place!


    There are several problems with this that clearly show the conspiracy mindset of the islamophobes :

    1. That ASDA would not answer the inquiry because of fear. That's uninformed nonsense. There is a wide variety of reasons why they wouldn't answer. Maybe they didn't have enough time or resources to collect the information in time. Maybe they just thought it was a silly question.

    2. The idea that he could tell which supermarket was mostly frequented by muslims. I bet he didn't make statistics on the religious affiliation of the shoppers at supermarkets.

    3. The idea that supermarkets pander to muslims by selling halal meat that is not labelled as halal. He somehow has to think that there is some secret way in which muslims know that meat is halal even though it is not labelled as halal. Maybe some secret publications by the supermarkets that only muslims get to read where it says that "our meat is halal even though it is not labelled as such". Maybe he thinks that being able to sell halal meat to non-muslims without their knowledge somehow makes muslims happy. Maybe he thinks that eating halal meat can turn you into a muslim. Or maybe he thinks that that is what muslims believe?

    The answer is quite simple or pure 100% market economy. Big Meat producers produce halal meat only because they also want to sell it to muslim markets. Having separate facilities to produce non-halal meat would produce costs for installation, logistics and so forth. So, they only produce halal meat.

    So, why then is some of it not labelled as halal? To sell halal meat with a halal certificate on it means you have to pay license fees to some islamic organization that verifies the slaughter follows halal requirements. Fees are paid not based on the amount of halal meat produced but based on the number of meat certified.

    So, if the producers sell meat to markets that don't insist on halal meat they don't label it as halal because using some certificate by a recognized organization would produce cost. There are arguments against labelling the meat as halal not using a recognized certificate but some own invented label:

    1) What for? If the customers don't demand halal meat, they certainly won't care if the meat is halal or not as long as all legal requirements regarding animal protection were observed.

    2) Muslim Customers could get suspicious if they see meat with a non-recognized official certificate labelled as halal and create customer service costs for the supermarkets and meat producers.

    3) I bet the meat producers have some kind of treaty with the licensor that forbids them to use their own label on non-certified meat.
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #45 - September 27, 2010, 02:57 PM

    NZ heavily exports to middle eastern countries so i guess they're slaughter practices must be pretty tight for Muslim countries /heavily populated Muslim countries to accept the meat.
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #46 - September 27, 2010, 02:59 PM

    Quote from: Ferrero
    I think it's down to fear and over simplification of relatively unknown slaughter practice.


    So, you think that if non-Muslims who object to halal being sneaked into their food were better informed they would come to accept it?

    Quote
    I really hope that majority of non-Muslims who object to halal meat are not like you, in which case, yes, racism would be the reason.


    So I am primarily motivated by an antagonism towards Muslims' skin color and other physical characteristics. Do I understand you right?

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #47 - September 27, 2010, 03:00 PM

    q
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #48 - September 27, 2010, 03:01 PM

    Quote from: Cheetah
    Would you kindly address people by their chosen usernames, and not by the name of their religion?


    Fine

    Quote
    And don't start whining about political correctness either,


    Wasn't going to

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #49 - September 27, 2010, 03:03 PM

    NZ heavily exports to middle eastern countries so i guess they're slaughter practices must be pretty tight for Muslim countries /heavily populated Muslim countries to accept the meat.


    Or the Middle Eastern customers just don't care as long as the meat has a "halal" stamp on the packaging and is cheap.

    Quote
    The trade body Beef & Lamb New Zealand said the form of halal slaughter used there does allow for the animals to be stunned.

    A spokesman said: ‘In New Zealand the process for halal slaughter is virtually the same as for non-halal slaughter.’


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1315065/How-70-New-Zealand-lamb-imports-Britain-halal--isnt-label.html#ixzz10k5g6ncj
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #50 - September 27, 2010, 03:08 PM

    Quote
    So, you think that if non-Muslims who object to halal being sneaked into their food were better informed they would come to accept it?

    I think lots of them will. Slit it's jugular, the animal loses consciousness nearly instanteously and then rest is history. Or as Nineberry's reserch has found: immobalise and anesthatise the animal using a stun gun and then the rest is the typical slaughterhouse manner majority of people are already accustomed too.

    Quote
    So I am primarily motivated by an antagonism towards Muslims' skin color and other physical characteristics. Do I understand you right?

    You view Muslims as a vile race of people with evil beliefs, beliefs that you think we should not even allow them the right to hold.
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #51 - September 27, 2010, 03:25 PM

    whats a painless death??

    Confucius:
    "What you do not like done to yourself, do not unto others."
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #52 - September 27, 2010, 03:26 PM

    Islamophobe, what a wonderful neologism. Dr Samuel Johnson would have been supremely proud for that addition to the English lexicon. Naturally, as befitting anyone who honours the value of the written word, I quit reading after that.


    Do you also stop reading when you hit upon the neologism "telephone"?
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #53 - September 27, 2010, 03:31 PM

    Quote from: "NineBerry"
    There are several problems with this that clearly show the conspiracy mindset of the islamophobes :


    A "conspiracy mindset" is perfectly appropriate where there are good reasons to suspect a conspiracy - eg big business's long record of shady and immoral practices like sneaking GM food into the food chain.

    Quote
    1. That ASDA would not answer the inquiry because of fear. That's uninformed nonsense. There is a wide variety of reasons why they wouldn't answer. Maybe they didn't have enough time or resources to collect the information in time.


    Or maybe they have knowingly been selling unwitting non-Muslim consumers halal meat

    Quote
    3. The idea that supermarkets pander to muslims by selling halal meat that is not labelled as halal.


    The writer below goes on to explain that production has been turned over to halal to meet MUSLIM DEMAND.

    Quote
    He somehow has to think that there is some secret way in which muslims know that meat is halal even though it is not labelled as halal.


    Or maybe Muslims are simply better informed about such things.

    Quote
    Maybe some secret publications by the supermarkets that only muslims get to read where it says that "our meat is halal even though it is not labelled as such". Maybe he thinks that being able to sell halal meat to non-muslims without their knowledge somehow makes muslims happy. Maybe he thinks that eating halal meat can turn you into a muslim. Or maybe he thinks that that is what muslims believe?


    Caricaturing opponents of shariaization as cranks is of course standard practice among Muslims and their useful idiots and denotes an inability to seriously address the oppositions points.

    Quote
    The answer is quite simple or pure 100% market economy. Big Meat producers produce halal meat only because they also want to sell it to muslim markets.


    IE the DEMAND by MUSLIMS for halal meat is the driving force for the halalization of animal slaughter in non-Muslim countries

    Quote
    Having separate facilities to produce non-halal meat would produce costs for installation, logistics and so forth. So, they only produce halal meat.


    In other words they have either:

    a) consciously decided that possible non-Muslim objections to halal meat will cost them less money than failing to meet Muslim demand for halal.

    b) not even considered the matter of possible non-Muslim objections

    Quote
    So, why then is some of it not labelled as halal?


    Because non-Muslim customers might not buy it and they'd lose money?

    Quote
    To sell halal meat with a halal certificate on it means you have to pay license fees to some islamic organization that verifies the slaughter follows halal requirements. Fees are paid not based on the amount of halal meat produced but based on the number of meat certified.

    1) What for? If the customers don't demand halal meat, they certainly won't care if the meat is halal or not as long as all legal requirements regarding animal protection were observed.


    The writer has already established above that the turning over of hitherto non-halal production to halal is the result of MUSLIM DEMAND.

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #54 - September 27, 2010, 03:36 PM

    Quote from: Ferrero
    I think lots of them will. Slit it's jugular, the animal loses consciousness nearly instanteously and then rest is history. Or as Nineberry's reserch has found: immobalise and anesthatise the animal using a stun gun and then the rest is the typical slaughterhouse manner majority of people are already accustomed too.


    Thank you for coming into the open as a defender of halal slaughter.
     
    Quote
    You view Muslims as a vile race of people

     

    I don't in fact view Muslims as a "race" of any sort. Islam is a cult like Scientology or Mansonism only much more dangerous to non-members than either of these.

    Quote
    with evil beliefs, beliefs that you think we should not even allow them the right to hold.


    You don't think the belief that people who no longer wish to be Muslims should be killed is EVIL?

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #55 - September 27, 2010, 03:38 PM

    DH, would you ban halal slaughter in countries where majority of the population is Muslim?

    Halal and kosher slaughter should be viewed on its' own merits (or lack of) and not judge it on the entire religion including its not so pleasent bits.
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #56 - September 27, 2010, 03:44 PM

    z
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #57 - September 27, 2010, 03:46 PM

    Quote from: Ferrero
    DH, would you ban halal slaughter in countries where majority of the population is Muslim?


    If I suddenly found myself in posession of absolute power I certainly would. I would also ban factory farming, whaling, overfishing, vivisection, general wildlife destruction and a host of other manifest wrongs.

    Quote
    Halal and kosher slaughter should be viewed on its' own merits (or lack of) and not judge it on the entire religion including its not so pleasent bits.


    "SHOULD" be viewed by who? Non-Muslims who don't want any part of their food supply line subject to sharia for no other reason than they find that an affront?

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #58 - September 27, 2010, 03:49 PM

    Should be viewed by everyone on it's own merits, Muslim and non-Muslim.  If you think religion is silly then it should have no significance on whether you eat meat which has had some silly prayer said over it. It's a dead animal, it doesn't care so neither should you. The only rational objection to halal and kosher meat shoud be made on grounds of the method used in slaughter not any personal religious convictions.

    On a side note, who died and made you the spokesperson of all non-Muslims? I certainly didn't elect you.
  • Re: Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat
     Reply #59 - September 27, 2010, 03:52 PM

    The essential difference between "Islamophobia" and "telephone" revolves round the fact that one of them happens to exist in reality. Some of us are of the conviction that reality is feri feri important. Crazy I know, but we can't help it my sweet.


    Both exist.
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