need help

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- Zuber
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need help
OP - September 16, 2010, 12:36 PM

Hi guys

Well my brother is a salafi lol and we got in to a discussion about islam and obvoiusly he claimed it to be true etc

We got to a point where he asked to give him the best question/statement about islam that makes it false. and he is going to ask his Shiek to refute it

So i wanted to ask in your opinion what do you think really destroys islam, like what arguments muhammed sleeping with a child? or scientific errors things like that

visions and ambitions never listen to submission
- Saif Rahman
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Re: need help
Reply #1 - September 16, 2010, 01:12 PM

Allahs (or mans) basic grammar mistakes in the Quran, which destroys the myth of the integrity of a perfectly preserved scipt protected by an omnipotent Allah. If you can prove this one mistake, then all its contents could potentially be called to question.

This is from my blog in my signature (with Hassans permission), but failing that, check the rest & choose what you think is best..

Quote from: Hassan
This is similar to saying “here are many peoples coming to the show today."

The verse is Verse 5:69, إِنَّ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَالَّذِينَ هَادُوا وَالصَّابِئُونَ وَالنَّصَارَى

The mistake is the word الصَّابِئُونَ

It is in the Nominative Case (الرفع) when it should be in the Accusative Case (النصب).

It is a very basic rule of grammar that the particle إِنَّ makes the nouns that it is referring to Accusative Case (النصب).

A simple example that you will find all over the Qur'an is: إِنَّ اللَّهَ The noun Allah (اللَّهَ) has the Fatha ( َ) at the end to denote it is in the Accusative Case, rather than the Damma ( ُ ) that would denote the Nominative Case.

When it comes to plural nouns the Nominative case is denoted by a long "oona" vowel (ون) and the Accusative Cases by a long "eena" vowel (ين).

Here are some examples from the Qur'an:

يَقُولُ الْمُنَافِقُونَ is in the Nominative إِنَّ الْمُنَافِقِينَ is in the Accusative because it has إِنَّ

It is a simple and basic rule of grammar. Not only that, but two other verses that are almost identical have the correct Accusative case:

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَالَّذِينَ هَادُوا وَالصَّابِئِينَ وَالنَّصَارَى (22:17)
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَالَّذِينَ هَادُوا وَالنَّصَارَى وَالصَّابِئِينَ (2:62)

It is clear to me Muhammad just made a simple - and easy to make.

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- Zuber
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Re: need help
Reply #2 - September 16, 2010, 10:02 PM

thanks islame

Those are some good arguments backed up by arabic language by hassan, I think i will definitely select one of them, because you can expect muslims to say " To understand the quran you have to know arabic" and all the other delusion that goes with it

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- Zebedee
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Re: need help
Reply #3 - September 16, 2010, 11:49 PM

A pretty strong argument for a mistake in the Quran is the creation contradiction between 74:27-33 and 2:29 and 41:9-12. And note also that a single mistake means that there are many, because every verse that claims that the Quran is inerrant likewise becomes false. Btw, I like your 10,000 Days avatar :-)
- armanduk2010
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Re: need help
Reply #4 - September 17, 2010, 12:45 AM

Duh just ask his shiek why satan says in quran the earth is flat lol
- Zuber
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Re: need help
Reply #5 - September 18, 2010, 05:14 AM

thanks guys for all your input

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- tabun
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Re: need help
Reply #6 - September 18, 2010, 05:18 AM

dude simply mention evolution of MAN ... and bring up neandrathals
that had me starting to suspect
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- Zuber
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Re: need help
Reply #7 - September 18, 2010, 01:08 PM

Yea thats right tabu - Ancient history was one of the first things that caught my attention, there is this assumption that the ancients were dumb and barbaric etc, and then the quran came with morals and science to educate people etc, But when i found out that a lot of the scientific works done during the islamic golden age were, works inherited by the ancients. It
made me doubt, and reading mythologies of older religions, and then reading the creation story of the abrahamic religion was no different and it helped open the doors to ask bigger questions,

apologies if my english is bad

visions and ambitions never listen to submission
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