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Theme Changer

 Topic: just wondering..

 (Read 39366 times)
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  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #240 - September 27, 2010, 07:49 PM


    Great post, HonestEars.

    And hi, and welcome to the forum  Afro

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #241 - September 27, 2010, 07:50 PM

    You confirmed this yourself: "they went to other countries so that they can spread islam, [and] the leaders of those countries attacked them and made sure they wouldn't get their message of Islam to people, hence the war."


    Islam's inverted and sinister stupidity right there ^^^^


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #242 - September 27, 2010, 07:55 PM

    Thanks! Glad to be here!
  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #243 - September 27, 2010, 07:58 PM

    But what if they (like me) thought Islam was man-made, the same way if I tried to bring in another religion into a Muslim country.  Would it still be OK to kill resistors like me, just because you happened to think it was divine.

    If you say yes to this then you are no different from other ancient religions that did that same tactics, and just a bunch of bully boys who' message was spread by force than anything with any real substance.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #244 - September 28, 2010, 02:14 AM




    Quote
    The most preposterous notion that H. sapiens has ever dreamed up, is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of all the Universes, wants the saccharine adoration of His creatures, can be swayed by their prayers, and becomes petulant if He does not receive this flattery. Yet this absurd fantasy, without a shred of evidence to bolster it, pays all the expenses of the oldest, largest, and least productive industry in all history.

    It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics.

    When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know, the end result is tyranny and oppression no matter how holy the motives.

    - Robert A. Heinlein


    I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I remain.
  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #245 - September 28, 2010, 08:51 AM

    if we compare the physical and financial obligations imposed on the Muslims with those imposed on the dhimmis, we will find that the Muslims undertake the heaviest burden. The Muslims pay zakah and strive for the sake of Allah and sacrifice their souls and properties. All of this brings a kind of safety and protection to the non-Muslims, so that they may work and produce without fearing for their souls or properties inside or outside the Islamic state.

    I've studied the history of islam in school, war by war, muslims started none of them, they went to other countries so that they can spread islam, the leaders of those countries attacked them and made sure they wouldn't get their message of islam to people, hence the war. There are many other reasons, but what I know is that Islam never started any war, islam hates the oppressors,
    "Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, and do not transgress limits (begin not hostility): For Allah loves not transgressors."

    In all fairness, do you think that if the situation were reversed you would be perfectly ok with it?

    E.g. if you lived in a Buddhist country and were made to pay a special non-Buddhist tax, and at the same time you were NOT allowed to spread Islam in such country or speak anything that might seem against Buddhism?

    Or, other example, if Buddhists monks came to get their message of Buddhism to people in Muslim land and if such Buddhists were prevented from teaching their religion to Muslims, would that justify said Buddhist monks to raise an army of Buddhists to attack and annex the Muslim land that fought against the spreading of the message of Buddhism?

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #246 - September 29, 2010, 11:20 AM

    ^^ I love the analogy Tialoc.

    To answer your initial question luna, "why" did we leave Islam,  I dare say I could probably not put it any better than Ishina's first post, . You have said that we have not provided any reasonable answers to this in the whole thread.

    What I have seen is, as many have pointed out, that you have claimed to want to find the truth "objectively". I wonder if you know what this word means?

    ob·jec·tive  (b-jktv)
    adj.
    1. Of or having to do with a material object.
    2. Having actual existence or reality.
    3.
    a. Uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices: an objective critic. See Synonyms at fair1.
    b. Based on observable phenomena; presented factually: an objective appraisal.

    What I have seen instead is you speak about people believing what they are "comfortable" with, talking about "digging deep" to find refutations to everything we raise here. Why do you need to dig so deep?

    Another thing, you say you are disgusted by some things Muslims do. Is there anyone you are not disgusted by? If you came to a non-Muslim country, surely you would say that most people are digusting to you, yet these countries offer more tolerance towards Islamic beliefs than any Islamic State would towards non-Muslim beliefs?

    I think, sister, you have failed on the first hurdle, to think objectively. To do this, you will need to consider the possibility (putting comfort aside) that Muhammad invented Islam, because he did. You have said that this is impossible because Islam grants certain (I would say pretty trivial) rights to women and because the Qur'an contains scientific facts. The Qur'an contains nothing on science but regurgitated mistakes.

  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #247 - September 29, 2010, 12:28 PM

    Exactly, as there is no proof, I also contend that the moment any religious person becomes

    Uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices

    then they automatically will also become agnostic

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #248 - September 30, 2010, 06:26 AM

    The authentic Hadiths says:

    The Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said: “Treat women kindly.


     

    Yep...except when you can't reason with them,then you can "caress" them gently with a stick no bigger than your hand or finger or whatever...but make sure you don't hit them where you leave marks (preferably kidney area)...or if they commit adultery then stone them,hang them,drown them...whatever...as long as you do something painful that manages to suck the life out of them...you are an obedient little righteous muslim...but all that being said treat them kindly... whistling2

    Quote
    one more thing to think about, divorce rates in the arab/muslim world, for a religion that doesn't say no to divorce, that's an achievement


    Fact: Divorce in Islam is an easy matter for the man but an entirely different story for the woman.It's not easy for women to be granted a divorce according to sharia law.So yey...truly a great achievement for Islam.Another one of those women's liberations that we've heard so much about right? Roll Eyes
  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #249 - September 30, 2010, 09:05 AM

     far away hug
  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #250 - October 10, 2010, 07:22 PM

    Ultimately, I was faced with a choice of being a good person or being a good Muslim. A human being cannot be both in my eyes. These two things are at opposite ends of the scale for me. To be an obedient, observant Muslim, you must sacrifice your humanity. You must surrender to a divine will, swear honest fealty to it, without doubt, without questioning. To be a good person you must not only renounce many of the central tenets of Islam, but you must also openly oppose them, wherever they manifest in the world. Then, and only then, can you claim to be a human with me. Or, you can compromise - live some kind of half-life, a contradictory creature, torn between faith and your own conscience, drifting this way and that amid your own confused and unbalanced inner equilibrium - fooling yourself that you are free, and valued, and precious to non-existent higher power. You can pretend that you love an unlovable god, pretend that such a hateful god could ever love you, try to salvage some validation and purpose, some salvation from a book that gives you a little and then takes a lot more, and all the time harbouring a self-loathing, a deep rooted knowledge that you are a slave to that same higher power, with your mind shackled and your heart held back from true human interaction, under his ever-present gaze and scrutiny. That’s no life for me. That isn’t living.

    I reject Islam wholeheartedly. I made my choice. I chose to try and be a good person instead of trying to be a good Muslim. The main symptom of doing so was feeling the weight lift off as each and every facet of Islam fell away from me. I have learned I no longer have to surrender my body, mind and soul to the god of the Prophet’s desires, dreams and delusions, and I have realised that I wont be punished for imaginary crimes in an imaginary afterlife if I choose not to surrender. The more I learned about the Prophet, the more I found him repulsive, even for a man of his time. The more I pulled away from that hideous Abrahamic concept of a supreme ‘one-god’, the more alive and vital I was in this gorgeous universe. I was free to be me, the person inside, perfect with all my flaws, comfortable in my own skin, no longer a mind-slave to the dark age ideologies imagined up by sadistic and insane monsters of history, no longer led along by the nose like cattle, no longer living according to the dogma spelled out by long-dead fools whose ideas belong in the graveyard of failed human endeavours, throwbacks to the infancy of our species. The umbilical cord that holds back the ascendancy and mastery of our own spirits and minds must be cut. We’ve crawled along on our belly for too long under religion. We should be walking on our own by now, running by now. We could even be flying by now.

    There are better role models in this beautiful world than the so-called Prophet. There are better contributions to the world than the cancerous, poisoned chalice known as the Quran. There are better wisdoms out there to find, to add to your own spiritual alchemy, better philosophies, better revelations, better discoveries, better poetic and artistic expression, better hopes and dreams to be had, better love and passions, a much richer, fuller existence - all eclipsed while you are under the black cloud of Islam. I almost hate Islam for the life it denied me for so long, never knowing my potential as a member of the human race. I know that potential now. I can taste it, feel it, appreciate it like never before. I penetrated that black cloud like the chick breaking out of the egg. It was like opening my eyes for the first time to a whole new alphabet of feeling and emotion. Like seeing in colour after a lifetime of black and white.

    I’ll never go back. Never. I would be a fool to. I’ve shed my skin already. My journey has only just begun, my journey of life, with new blood running through me, new verve, new growth, new days, and new hope for the first time - true, tangible hope and possibilities. And with Islam in my rear-view mirror, I have no regrets. This journey of life I am forever grateful for, and I can’t begin to describe how excited I am. I can only show those close to me, making the journey with me. And to those who accept me for who I am, and what I am, I will share myself, naked, unashamed, with arms wide open.


    Well said sister (hope your female) those are the right thoughts to have. We have one life to express our selves and we should not waste it on our knees praying to an imaginary devine being who hates us anyway. You talk about humanity so well wish more people could see the importants of being a good human instead of a good religious robot who fears hell. You know the cracking point for me was simply understanding the worth of humanism.

    I look forward to this life journey as well.  dance

    Through Logic, truth can be ascertained.
  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #251 - October 12, 2010, 06:44 AM

    Thank you Smiley

    You just reminded me, I meant to put it in my intro thread rather than let it go to waste in this crap thread.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #252 - October 12, 2010, 07:01 AM

    hello.. i'm a muslim, and i've just found out about this website

    if anyone here can please help me understand, what's the main reason that made u leave islam?
    i'm just curious

    thank u


    I love pork.
  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #253 - October 12, 2010, 07:07 AM

    I love pork.

     13
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