Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


Qur'anic studies today
April 23, 2024, 06:50 AM

Do humans have needed kno...
April 20, 2024, 12:02 PM

Lights on the way
by akay
April 19, 2024, 04:40 PM

اضواء على الطريق ....... ...
by akay
April 19, 2024, 12:50 PM

Do humans have needed kno...
April 19, 2024, 04:17 AM

What's happened to the fo...
by zeca
April 18, 2024, 06:39 PM

New Britain
April 18, 2024, 05:41 PM

Iran launches drones
April 13, 2024, 09:56 PM

عيد مبارك للجميع! ^_^
by akay
April 12, 2024, 04:01 PM

Eid-Al-Fitr
by akay
April 12, 2024, 12:06 PM

Mock Them and Move on., ...
January 30, 2024, 10:44 AM

Pro Israel or Pro Palesti...
January 29, 2024, 01:53 PM

Theme Changer

 Topic: just wondering..

 (Read 39382 times)
  • 12 3 ... 9 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • just wondering..
     OP - September 03, 2010, 08:27 PM

    hello.. i'm a muslim, and i've just found out about this website

    if anyone here can please help me understand, what's the main reason that made u leave islam?
    i'm just curious

    thank u
  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #1 - September 03, 2010, 08:34 PM

    Welcome.

    Please go through the Bios section and other threads. You will get an idea of the common reasons for why we left Islam.

    German ex-Muslim forumMy YouTubeList of Ex-Muslims
    Wikis: en de fr ar tr
    CEMB-Chat
    I'm on an indefinite break...
  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #2 - September 03, 2010, 08:35 PM

    Hello, I am not an ex-muslim, or a muslim, so those who are can answer that question. Welcome in and please post in the intro thread slot to introduce yourself. Please come in with a open mind, and don't mind some of us here, its just for fun and not serious some of the clarting around.

    Mods please move to intros!
  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #3 - September 03, 2010, 11:26 PM

    Ultimately, I was faced with a choice of being a good person or being a good Muslim. A human being cannot be both in my eyes. These two things are at opposite ends of the scale for me. To be an obedient, observant Muslim, you must sacrifice your humanity. You must surrender to a divine will, swear honest fealty to it, without doubt, without questioning. To be a good person you must not only renounce many of the central tenets of Islam, but you must also openly oppose them, wherever they manifest in the world. Then, and only then, can you claim to be a human with me. Or, you can compromise - live some kind of half-life, a contradictory creature, torn between faith and your own conscience, drifting this way and that amid your own confused and unbalanced inner equilibrium - fooling yourself that you are free, and valued, and precious to non-existent higher power. You can pretend that you love an unlovable god, pretend that such a hateful god could ever love you, try to salvage some validation and purpose, some salvation from a book that gives you a little and then takes a lot more, and all the time harbouring a self-loathing, a deep rooted knowledge that you are a slave to that same higher power, with your mind shackled and your heart held back from true human interaction, under his ever-present gaze and scrutiny. That’s no life for me. That isn’t living.

    I reject Islam wholeheartedly. I made my choice. I chose to try and be a good person instead of trying to be a good Muslim. The main symptom of doing so was feeling the weight lift off as each and every facet of Islam fell away from me. I have learned I no longer have to surrender my body, mind and soul to the god of the Prophet’s desires, dreams and delusions, and I have realised that I wont be punished for imaginary crimes in an imaginary afterlife if I choose not to surrender. The more I learned about the Prophet, the more I found him repulsive, even for a man of his time. The more I pulled away from that hideous Abrahamic concept of a supreme ‘one-god’, the more alive and vital I was in this gorgeous universe. I was free to be me, the person inside, perfect with all my flaws, comfortable in my own skin, no longer a mind-slave to the dark age ideologies imagined up by sadistic and insane monsters of history, no longer led along by the nose like cattle, no longer living according to the dogma spelled out by long-dead fools whose ideas belong in the graveyard of failed human endeavours, throwbacks to the infancy of our species. The umbilical cord that holds back the ascendancy and mastery of our own spirits and minds must be cut. We’ve crawled along on our belly for too long under religion. We should be walking on our own by now, running by now. We could even be flying by now.

    There are better role models in this beautiful world than the so-called Prophet. There are better contributions to the world than the cancerous, poisoned chalice known as the Quran. There are better wisdoms out there to find, to add to your own spiritual alchemy, better philosophies, better revelations, better discoveries, better poetic and artistic expression, better hopes and dreams to be had, better love and passions, a much richer, fuller existence - all eclipsed while you are under the black cloud of Islam. I almost hate Islam for the life it denied me for so long, never knowing my potential as a member of the human race. I know that potential now. I can taste it, feel it, appreciate it like never before. I penetrated that black cloud like the chick breaking out of the egg. It was like opening my eyes for the first time to a whole new alphabet of feeling and emotion. Like seeing in colour after a lifetime of black and white.

    I’ll never go back. Never. I would be a fool to. I’ve shed my skin already. My journey has only just begun, my journey of life, with new blood running through me, new verve, new growth, new days, and new hope for the first time - true, tangible hope and possibilities. And with Islam in my rear-view mirror, I have no regrets. This journey of life I am forever grateful for, and I can’t begin to describe how excited I am. I can only show those close to me, making the journey with me. And to those who accept me for who I am, and what I am, I will share myself, naked, unashamed, with arms wide open.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #4 - September 03, 2010, 11:40 PM

     Afro Afro Afro Afro Afro Afro Afro Afro Afro

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #5 - September 03, 2010, 11:44 PM

    I can only show those close to me, making the journey with me. And to those who accept me for who I am, and what I am, I will share myself, naked, unashamed, with arms wide open.

    If you would like to do the honours, we have a picture thread for that kind of thing.   Shocked

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #6 - September 03, 2010, 11:50 PM

    Awesome post Ishina.  Afro Afro Afro Afro Afro

    "The greatest general is not the one who can take the most cities or spill the most blood. The greatest general is the one who can take Heaven and Earth without waging the battle." ~ Sun Tzu

  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #7 - September 04, 2010, 12:03 AM

    If you would like to do the honours, we have a picture thread for that kind of thing.   Shocked


    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #8 - September 04, 2010, 12:16 AM

    no facepalm is necessary. I think Islame should be JOTM just for that one post.  Afro

    "If intelligence is feminine... I would want that mine would, in a resolute movement, come to resemble an impious woman."
  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #9 - September 04, 2010, 12:18 AM

    Fuck that, salim's a lock.

    fuck you
  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #10 - September 04, 2010, 12:30 AM

    that was very impressive

    some of it i couldn't understand, when a person becomes a good muslim, they automatically become a good human being, even if they don't, a good person is a good person no matter what, you don't have to leave religion to become one.

    Islam has always taught us how to care and love for others, how to help them, and how to respect them despite of our differences. It bans us from hurting any person unless it was in the case of self-defense. It gives us rules by which we will be able to live our lives and let people live theirs.

    The prophet is repulsive, why is that? (may God forgive you for what u said), and yes i agree with you, there are many role models in this world, the thing is that each one of us has their own role model and their own perspective of life. What's right for you is wrong for someone else and in the end the society is the thing to be affected.
  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #11 - September 04, 2010, 12:34 AM

    @luna_90:   It sounds like you are a good human being already.  I suggest you don't study your religion any more deeply.  In fact, don't go anywhere near the Qur'an and Hadith.

    (Have you seen IsLame's blog?)

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #12 - September 04, 2010, 12:35 AM

    luna - with all due respect, you wont understand.  You work from the aspect of Islam is divine, and until you open you mind & eyes to other possibilities then its pointless.

    Remember most of us here were believers, some probably far more fastidious than you, so we have seen both sides of the coin and also can empathise with everything you are presently going through.  

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #13 - September 04, 2010, 01:06 AM

    that was very impressive

    some of it i couldn't understand, when a person becomes a good muslim, they automatically become a good human being, even if they don't, a good person is a good person no matter what, you don't have to leave religion to become one.

    Islam has always taught us how to care and love for others, how to help them, and how to respect them despite of our differences. It bans us from hurting any person unless it was in the case of self-defense. It gives us rules by which we will be able to live our lives and let people live theirs.

    The prophet is repulsive, why is that? (may God forgive you for what u said), and yes i agree with you, there are many role models in this world, the thing is that each one of us has their own role model and their own perspective of life. What's right for you is wrong for someone else and in the end the society is the thing to be affected.


    Is the Quran the fallible writings of men, or the infallible wisdom of Allah revealed?

    Can you choose which divine Laws to live by? Are some more worthy of attention than others? Can some be ignored completely?

    Is there a choice for anyone calling themselves a Muslim, to submit completely or not to the will of Allah? If a Muslim does not submit completely to the will of Allah, do you still consider them a good Muslim?

    Do you support Sharia Law? If not, why not?

    Do you condemn Sharia Law? If so, do you still consider yourself a good Muslim?

    What is the reward in the afterlife for those who live according to Sharia?

    What is the reward in the afterlife for those who do not live according to Sharia?

    Do you share Allah’s views on women? Do you understand these views, and what are these views?

    Do you share Allah’s views on sexual freedom? Do you understand these views, and what are these views?

    Do you share Allah’s views on homosexuals? Do you understand these views, and what are these views?

    Do you share Allah’s views on non-Muslims? Do you understand these views, and what are these views?

    Do you share Allah’s views on ex-Muslims? Do you understand these views, and what are these views?

    Are moderate Muslims living according to the true path?

    Are purist Muslims living according to the true path?

    Do you hope everyone on earth will eventually see the wisdom revealed in the Quran and live under Islam?

    Do you think A'isha was physically and psychologically ready when the Prophet consummated their marriage?

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #14 - September 04, 2010, 01:25 AM

    i checked the blog, thanks for telling me about it that's what i needed. i will go through every detail in there, and i will look for explanations for each one of the hadiths and suras, the thing is that i need to find them in arabic because i don't trust english translations at all..
    i just need to prove to myself that islam isn't at all as bad as u guys say it is
  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #15 - September 04, 2010, 01:54 AM

    Quote
    i just need to prove to myself that islam isn't at all as bad as u guys say it is


    If that is what you need, then I expect that is what you'll find. 

    If you ever find the need to look at reality, let us know. We can help with that.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #16 - September 04, 2010, 02:01 AM

    is this some kind of quiz? okay i'll answer

    Quran is the infallible wisdom of Allah revealed

    as u must know, islam means submission to God, we shouldn't be choosing between laws or preferring some and rejecting some, but there sure laws that are more important than others

    i don't submit completely to the will of Allah,for example: i don't wear my hijab, i have male friends, and many other things, and i consider myself a good muslim and a good person, i've never done anything bad to any person in my whole life and i always defend my religion, that must count. (God knows better).

    i support sharia law, what's wrong about it? the punishments? i find them very effective in reducing crime, they work for the better good.
    polygamy? there are reasons for that, and it's better than illegal relationships that give the second woman no rights. ( a person who's willing to practice polygamy is willing to practice adultry)
    divorce? women can divorce their husbands
    inheritance? yes we are given half of what males are given, but those males are supposed to be supporting us for the rest of their lives, doesn't that count?

    As for the reward thing, i can't answer that because it differs with each case, and God only knows what's in our heart

    Allah's views on women, very sensitive topic, i understand hijab, i already told you about inheritance, the only thing i don't understand is the man's dominance over his wife, i'm looking for an answer and i'm sure i'll get it

    what do u mean by sexual freedom? in islam we're forbidden to have sex or any intimate relationship with any person other than our husband, you think that's wrong? it must be a very bad religion for saving your rights

    homosexuality is haram in islam, there isn't any hadith or sura that determines the punishment for such practice,some scholars say that it should be the same as fornication, even though some islamic countries condemn the person to death. islamic scholars advice that homosexuals should try very hard to get all the psychological and medical help needed, and if that didn't work, they should be patient but never practice homosexuality.

    yes i understand Allah's views on non-muslims, they can live in an islamic country, and they have to pay jezya as muslims have to pay zakat, if they were poor they are spared from paying anything. they're not forced to enter islam and have the right to practice their religion as they wish.

    ex-muslims are committing a huge sin, again punished by death in islamic countries which isn't correct, they're only punished by death if they harm muslims, if they don't harm anyone and leave in peace, they're free to do what they want, everybody who got killed for conversion in the time of the prophet was because he hurt islam and muslims

    are moderate and purist muslims living according to the true path? they should be, there are always exceptions

    i hope everybody will understand islam

    and finally, Aisha may not have been ready in your and my point of view, but at that time, they all got married at that age, Aisha had been even propsed to by some other guy before the prophet, which meant she had been ready, we might not understand it, but even people in this lifetime get married at the age of 9, how about 1400 years ago? it was a common habit in all religions and in all countries. people at that time fought by swords, now we fight by planes and nuclear weapons, things change with time.

  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #17 - September 04, 2010, 02:03 AM

    Do you think that homosexuals, adulterers and apostates - such as ourselves - should be put to death? The hadith certainly supports all 3.

    PS: Explain 4:34

    004.034
    YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).
    PICKTHAL: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
    SHAKIR: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

    19:46   <zizo>: hugs could pimp u into sex

    Quote from: yeezevee
    well I am neither ex-Muslim nor absolute 100% Non-Muslim.. I am fucking Zebra

  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #18 - September 04, 2010, 02:07 AM

    of course that's what i'll find, not because i'm blinded or anything, i'll be very objective.
  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #19 - September 04, 2010, 02:10 AM

    Nah, you  won't.  You need to prove to yourself that Islam is not as bad as we say it is, therefore you are not capable of being objective.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #20 - September 04, 2010, 02:12 AM

    is this some kind of quiz? okay i'll answer

    Quran is the infallible wisdom of Allah revealed

    as u must know, islam means submission to God, we shouldn't be choosing between laws or preferring some and rejecting some, but there sure laws that are more important than others

    i don't submit completely to the will of Allah,for example: i don't wear my hijab, i have male friends, and many other things, and i consider myself a good muslim and a good person, i've never done anything bad to any person in my whole life and i always defend my religion, that must count. (God knows better).

    i support sharia law, what's wrong about it? the punishments? i find them very effective in reducing crime, they work for the better good.
    polygamy? there are reasons for that, and it's better than illegal relationships that give the second woman no rights. ( a person who's willing to practice polygamy is willing to practice adultry)
    divorce? women can divorce their husbands
    inheritance? yes we are given half of what males are given, but those males are supposed to be supporting us for the rest of their lives, doesn't that count?

    As for the reward thing, i can't answer that because it differs with each case, and God only knows what's in our heart

    Allah's views on women, very sensitive topic, i understand hijab, i already told you about inheritance, the only thing i don't understand is the man's dominance over his wife, i'm looking for an answer and i'm sure i'll get it

    what do u mean by sexual freedom? in islam we're forbidden to have sex or any intimate relationship with any person other than our husband, you think that's wrong? it must be a very bad religion for saving your rights

    homosexuality is haram in islam, there isn't any hadith or sura that determines the punishment for such practice,some scholars say that it should be the same as fornication, even though some islamic countries condemn the person to death. islamic scholars advice that homosexuals should try very hard to get all the psychological and medical help needed, and if that didn't work, they should be patient but never practice homosexuality.

    yes i understand Allah's views on non-muslims, they can live in an islamic country, and they have to pay jezya as muslims have to pay zakat, if they were poor they are spared from paying anything. they're not forced to enter islam and have the right to practice their religion as they wish.

    ex-muslims are committing a huge sin, again punished by death in islamic countries which isn't correct, they're only punished by death if they harm muslims, if they don't harm anyone and leave in peace, they're free to do what they want, everybody who got killed for conversion in the time of the prophet was because he hurt islam and muslims

    are moderate and purist muslims living according to the true path? they should be, there are always exceptions

    i hope everybody will understand islam

    and finally, Aisha may not have been ready in your and my point of view, but at that time, they all got married at that age, Aisha had been even propsed to by some other guy before the prophet, which meant she had been ready, we might not understand it, but even people in this lifetime get married at the age of 9, how about 1400 years ago? it was a common habit in all religions and in all countries. people at that time fought by swords, now we fight by planes and nuclear weapons, things change with time.




    1. What proof is there your god exists? please provide it here. If there is no valid proof than why do you continue to believe in a god that made it so difficult for you?

    2. Is there any crime one can commit for which eternal torture is justifiable?

    3. If you support sharia law, then do you think it is alright that women and men are barbarically stoned to death int his period of time? if they are going to be eternally punished anyway, then why should god approve of such a painful method of dying?

    4. The answer to your confusion about why Allah would put women in such a low  position is very simple. Truly, with an open mind, look at the quran, and look at allah. Would any supreme being who created all the heavens and the earth truly assign punishments such as beating your wife? The role of women in Islam is easily explained when you apply the dominance men have had over women in the past. The quran was written by men for men in a time period where women were not exactly equal to men. It's all over there. Can't you see the patriarchal aspects? The way that muslims refer to women as not simply women but "their" women. A woman always belongs to someone. DO you ever hear anyone saying. "their men in the west are such chauvinistic bastards"? no, you always hear, "their women (in the west) are such sluts. they let them dress like whores."

    I could go on and on, but its up to you to not simply confirm what you believe already and search for answers that you like, but the truth. and the truth is painful, i know.

    "If intelligence is feminine... I would want that mine would, in a resolute movement, come to resemble an impious woman."
  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #21 - September 04, 2010, 02:25 AM

    Do you think that it is fair that someone will be tortured eternally simply for being born into and brainwashed into the "wrong" religion? 4/5 of the world are born non-muslims, do you think it's fair that god favoured you and allowed you to be born into the "right" religion, and all those other billions of people to be be born as kaffirs, making it less likely for them to accept Islam and be saved from eternal torture?

    19:46   <zizo>: hugs could pimp u into sex

    Quote from: yeezevee
    well I am neither ex-Muslim nor absolute 100% Non-Muslim.. I am fucking Zebra

  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #22 - September 04, 2010, 02:36 AM

    If that is what you need, then I expect that is what you'll find. 

    If you ever find the need to look at reality, let us know. We can help with that.

    exactly.

    Its like paradoelia, I mean christians can see Jesus in wood bark, Hindus see Krishna in biscuit crumbs, and muslims see Allah in the attached pic. 

    Like Cheetah said, if you are looking to answer confirm your own desired biases, then you will.  Just dont begin your journey at the point from your parents inherited it .

    If you start from a clean fresh slate, well thats when you really begin your journey.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #23 - September 04, 2010, 02:56 AM


    Quran is the infallible wisdom of Allah revealed

    as u must know, islam means submission to God, we shouldn't be choosing between laws or preferring some and rejecting some, but there sure laws that are more important than others

    i don't submit completely to the will of Allah,for example: i don't wear my hijab, i have male friends, and many other things, and i consider myself a good muslim and a good person, i've never done anything bad to any person in my whole life and i always defend my religion, that must count. (God knows better).

    I’m not sure I understand. If you think the Quran is the infallible wisdom of Allah revealed, and that Muslims shouldn’t be choosing between laws or rejecting some… why do you go ahead and do so? And why, then, do you call yourself a good Muslim? Do you see the contradiction here?

    i support sharia law, what's wrong about it? the punishments? i find them very effective in reducing crime, they work for the better good.

    You ‘find them’ very effective? Well, that’s cute, but the statistics prove otherwise.

    polygamy? there are reasons for that, and it's better than illegal relationships that give the second woman no rights. ( a person who's willing to practice polygamy is willing to practice adultry)
    divorce? women can divorce their husbands
    inheritance? yes we are given half of what males are given, but those males are supposed to be supporting us for the rest of their lives, doesn't that count?

    Well sure! It’s all about the riches, after all. I mean, a healthy relationship between a man and his four whores wives is all about the material things. We shouldn’t be concerned about how a mere woman might feel being one of four, as long as the man has the means to support all of them, right? Who cares about her worth as a human and her silly emotional needs.

    As for the reward thing, i can't answer that because it differs with each case, and God only knows what's in our heart

    It’s spelled out pretty clearly in the Quran. On almost every page. You already must have at least a general idea about it. Be honest.

    Allah's views on women, very sensitive topic, i understand hijab, i already told you about inheritance, the only thing i don't understand is the man's dominance over his wife, i'm looking for an answer and i'm sure i'll get it

    The answer is: Allah said so, and he is most wise, great. Allahu Akbar! And all that bollocks.

    Not much of an answer, I agree. But that’s about the best you’ll get from such an arrogant and misogynistic men’s club.

     
    what do u mean by sexual freedom? in islam we're forbidden to have sex or any intimate relationship with any person other than our husband, you think that's wrong? it must be a very bad religion for saving your rights

    I mean falling in love. Young lovers who complete one another. Discovering new flesh. Isn’t this a natural, beautiful thing? To be so caught up in someone, to find true love, that the universe is realigned?

    What would you say if I told you I have never been married, and that I have had numerous sexual partners? Under Sharia Law that you support, what would you have done to me? But more importantly, do you think I’d deserve it? I’m interested in your own opinion, not regurgitations from scripture.

    homosexuality is haram in islam, there isn't any hadith or sura that determines the punishment for such practice,some scholars say that it should be the same as fornication, even though some islamic countries condemn the person to death. islamic scholars advice that homosexuals should try very hard to get all the psychological and medical help needed, and if that didn't work, they should be patient but never practice homosexuality.

    I have homosexual friends. But I’m an art student, in a free country, so I’m not gonna have the same understanding  of how gays are viewed in your ideal society, though I can probably make a good guess.

    So tell me, what do you think of this: To me, in my sphere of existence, gays are just gays, not anything strange or special, just sorta as average as any straight person. Hell, I can even make jokes about them, to them, and they laugh and give me it right back. Its not a character flaw, nor is it a free pass to whine. Its no big deal either way. And then you step out of that world and its suddenly an issue. I read words like ‘homosexuals should try very hard to get all the psychological and medical help needed, and if that didn't work, they should be patient but never practice homosexuality’ as you so eloquently put it, and I just think what fucking century are those words dragged from? Am I on the right planet? It takes a while to process. The fucking audacity of it. Its absurd and insane. People should have already grown out of that kind of thinking and I wonder why they haven't.

    It’s 2010 already. Even the year sounds like its from the future. Lets get past the dark ages already. The Mohammedists and Christfuckers and all the other religious deadheads who think sexuality is a sin and same sex relationships are an abomination of nature have no place in the modern world and no respect from me. Their time is long past. They are fucking relics. They should be mocked and shunned, and their primitive ideas should left to rot in the intellectual graveyard of human failures. Right in between Nazi eugenics and the flat earth theory.

    yes i understand Allah's views on non-muslims, they can live in an islamic country, and they have to pay jezya as muslims have to pay zakat, if they were poor they are spared from paying anything. they're not forced to enter islam and have the right to practice their religion as they wish.

    Oh wow! I mean, how very generous! We can… we can live there, as long as we pay Jizya? Fucking fantastic! Sign me up! I’d love to be a minion, a lower class.

    ex-muslims are committing a huge sin, again punished by death in islamic countries which isn't correct, they're only punished by death if they harm muslims, if they don't harm anyone and leave in peace, they're free to do what they want, everybody who got killed for conversion in the time of the prophet was because he hurt islam and muslims

    I’ve committed a huge sin, then? What does that even mean to you? Do you think I am your lesser or your equal because of this? Do you think I am flawed or wrong? Do you just throw out the word 'sin' without even thinking about what it is as a concept, and do you understand how another person might see this as no more than an insult?

    are moderate and purist muslims living according to the true path? they should be, there are always exceptions

    They are different things -  massively contrasting ways of life, people walking on entirely different paths. How can they both be on the True Path™? It doesn’t make sense.

    i hope everybody will understand islam

    What if people understand it, but they just don’t like it? What if part of the understanding, is understanding the vile and oppressive ideology that it is, and rejecting it because of that? What if they don’t even consider it a religion, more of a political and militant ponzie scheme?

    and finally, Aisha may not have been ready in your and my point of view, but at that time, they all got married at that age, Aisha had been even propsed to by some other guy before the prophet, which meant she had been ready, we might not understand it, but even people in this lifetime get married at the age of 9, how about 1400 years ago? it was a common habit in all religions and in all countries. people at that time fought by swords, now we fight by planes and nuclear weapons, things change with time.

    I wasn’t as concerned about the actual marriage, so much as I was concerned about the Prophet sticking his adult penis in her 9 year old vagina. Do you think this is a good example?

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #24 - September 04, 2010, 05:46 AM

    we might not understand it, but even people in this lifetime get married at the age of 9, how about 1400 years ago? it was a common habit in all religions and in all countries. people at that time fought by swords, now we fight by planes and nuclear weapons, things change with time.

    yet still a non-changing 1400 year old book of codes is still good for us?
    Most of us know this perspective, we've been there. But each time you plug a gap to keep the faith, some other gap is left open.
    When one is defending like that though, one tends to only focus on the gap now closed, because one wants things to be normal again. One wants to go back to where they belong.

    Consider for a moment, that quran isn't the word of god. Can you say it doesn't make sense?

    For that era, alcohol was hard to ban, so it was banned in three moves. Ok. But why are all still in Quran?

    For that era, slavery was impossible to ban, but it was encouraged. Ok. But when will it be abolished by god completely? Who will do it? Will it be added to quran? Or if god completed his religion like this, is slavery never to be abolished?

    There isn't any of that in the quran. But you know what is? Things that only matter for the ashab and people of that time and place. Things that only matter for the wives of the prophet. Does it make sense? Does it make sense when you are not totally convinced this is the word of god and you try to find explanations from scholars?

    Your gut tells you something is wrong, yet its still wrought. It's tough to come over this strong a conditioning.
  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #25 - September 04, 2010, 09:03 AM

    ex-muslims are committing a huge sin, again punished by death in islamic countries which isn't correct, they're only punished by death if they harm muslims, if they don't harm anyone and leave in peace, they're free to do what they want, everybody who got killed for conversion in the time of the prophet was because he hurt islam and muslims

    Not true, unless you dont believe in sahih hadith.  In fact it doesnt come smuch simpler  & less open to interpretation that this.  Check this out..

    Sahih  Bukhari 4:260
    The Prophet said, ‘If a Muslim discards his religion, kill him.’


    Quote
    and finally, Aisha may not have been ready in your and my point of view, but at that time, they all got married at that age, Aisha had been even propsed to by some other guy before the prophet, which meant she had been ready, we might not understand it, but even people in this lifetime get married at the age of 9, how about 1400 years ago? it was a common habit in all religions and in all countries. people at that time fought by swords, now we fight by planes and nuclear weapons, things change with time.

    I doubt they all did, we know the prophets as a 20-so-year old married Kahdija, his first wife, when she was older than him?

    In any case even if all men married 9 years olds, even men at 52 like Muhammed who were old enough to be their great great grandfather, do you still believe its something that as a prophet of God, & as a final example to all future humanity, should have done?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #26 - September 04, 2010, 09:31 AM

    now 4 people have analyzed and questioned her one post. let's give her room to respond please.

    "If intelligence is feminine... I would want that mine would, in a resolute movement, come to resemble an impious woman."
  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #27 - September 04, 2010, 11:01 AM

    I noticed this in Musilms(and me)

    They want Islam to be the truth, and when there's something that doesn't make sense in it, they say that there must be a reason behind the nonsense.

  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #28 - September 04, 2010, 01:49 PM

    Do you think that homosexuals, adulterers and apostates - such as ourselves - should be put to death? The hadith certainly supports all 3.

    PS: Explain 4:34

    004.034
    YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).
    PICKTHAL: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
    SHAKIR: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.


    i already answered in previous post that apostates and homosexuals aren't punished by death in this life, about adultery, it's for the greater good. Even Allah commanded that we get four witnesses that a person committed adultery, that's because he doesn't want us to die, he wants us to repent. think about it, who can get four witnesses about such a thing??

    i also said that i don't understand the dominance for men over women in islam but i'm gonna look it up and fina an answer
  • Re: just wondering..
     Reply #29 - September 04, 2010, 01:52 PM

    Nah, you  won't.  You need to prove to yourself that Islam is not as bad as we say it is, therefore you are not capable of being objective.


    we're not that different, you just try hard to prove Allah doesn't exist and i try hard to prove that He does. there are some stuff about islam that make me doubt i admit, but the answer is always out there and i have to dig deep to find it
  • 12 3 ... 9 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »