Is the Quran really Heliocentric???

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Is the Quran really Heliocentric???
OP - August 15, 2010, 11:29 AM

Hello,

A friend of mine, a devout Muslim, claimed that this verse proves science in the Quran. According to him it's clear "evidence" that the Quran defends a heliocentric model of our system . I just can't see it that way. What are your views on this verse ...

The Quran 18:17 “Thou wouldst have seen the sun, when it rose, declining to the right from their Cave, and when it set, turning away from them to the left, while they lay in the open space in the midst of the Cave. Such are among the Signs of Allah: He whom Allah, guides is rightly guided; but he whom Allah leaves to stray.”
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Re: Is the Quran really Heliocentric???
Reply #1 - August 15, 2010, 11:38 AM

Person1: It's no wonder people thought the Sun orbited the Earth, that's just how it looked.
Person2: What would it have looked like if the Earth orbited the Sun?

This verse doesn't say that the Earth orbits the Sun, nor that days are caused by the rotation of the Sun. Ask him to explain WHY he thinks it describes a heliocentric solar system.

There is plenty of evidence in the Quran that its author believed in a geocentric universe though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWLA-MZBhyE

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http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
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Re: Is the Quran really Heliocentric???
Reply #2 - August 15, 2010, 11:57 AM

the verse sounds gibberish to me .
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Re: Is the Quran really Heliocentric???
Reply #3 - August 15, 2010, 11:59 AM

The Quran is a flat earth supporting, geocentric book. Nuff said.

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Re: Is the Quran really Heliocentric???
Reply #4 - August 15, 2010, 05:18 PM

"Thou wouldst have seen the sun, when it rose, declining to the right from their Cave, and when it set, turning away from them to the left, while they lay in the open space in the midst of the Cave. Such are among the Signs of Allah: He whom Allah, guides is rightly guided; but he whom Allah leaves to stray.”

I don't see how that verse could 'prove' the Earth revolved around the sun at all, the opposite infact.

I also struggle to find any evidence of any Islamic nation claiming the Earth revolves around the Sun, anytime before it was proven and accepted by other regions.
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Re: Is the Quran really Heliocentric???
Reply #5 - August 15, 2010, 07:25 PM

Quote from: pyramid on August 15, 2010, 11:29 AM
Hello,

A friend of mine, a devout Muslim, claimed that this verse proves science in the Quran. According to him it's clear "evidence" that the Quran defends a heliocentric model of our system . I just can't see it that way. What are your views on this verse ...

The Quran 18:17 “Thou wouldst have seen the sun, when it rose, declining to the right from their Cave, and when it set, turning away from them to the left, while they lay in the open space in the midst of the Cave. Such are among the Signs of Allah: He whom Allah, guides is rightly guided; but he whom Allah leaves to stray.”

pyramid joins cemb and starts Quran and Science with good old astronomical model that is called Heliocentric Model of universe ., Well I am not sure Quran with its mambo jumbo words in that verse has Heliocentric Mode or ECCENTRIC MODEL ., but even if it has been in Quran or supports that model what is new about it? It has been said by Greeks much before Muhammad was in liquid form in his Dad's fluid .... Even a simple wiki at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliocentrism tell us..
Quote
Heliocentrism, or heliocentricism,[1] is the astronomical model in which the Earth and planets revolve around a stationary Sun at the center of the universe. The word comes from the Greek (ἥλιος helios "sun" and κέντρον kentron "center"). Historically, heliocentrism was opposed to geocentrism, which placed the Earth at the center. The notion that the Earth revolves around the Sun was first proposed in the 3rd century BC by Aristarchus of Samos. However, it was not until the 16th century that a fully predictive mathematical model of a heliocentric system was presented, by the Renaissance mathematician and astronomer Nicolaus Copernicus, leading to the Copernican Revolution. In the following century,

Muslim bums don't read anything., even iif they read they don't use mind to analyze Quran..

ANy way let me give that TURKEY Adnan Oktar link and other links Muslim Intellectuals on this subject here..

THE HELIO-CENTRIC SYSTEM: http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_104.html

Quran: A Teacher to Modern Scientists: http://www.jannah.org/articles/quransci.html

MIRACLES OF THE QUR'AN: http://www.harunyahya.com/miracles_of_the_quran_01.php

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Re: Is the Quran really Heliocentric???
Reply #6 - August 15, 2010, 08:08 PM

Does it really matter?

If there is something contradictory, they will claim it has to be interpreted in a weird way.
If there is a sliver of possibility to point a fact, they will embellish it to incredible extent and claim the quran is clearly ( as it is a clear book ) miraculous

they will try to find miracles, and say "How can someone not believe this? It's inconceivable!"
then go on to say, there aren't clear proofs because otherwise this wouldn't be a test of faith.

they will claim this is both a matter of faith, AND reason.
and will keep a straight face, believing what they are telling you.

it's hard to break muslims.
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Re: Is the Quran really Heliocentric???
Reply #7 - August 15, 2010, 08:25 PM

Haha, indeed. Jeez, religious people.

Quote from: Mount A Bison on September 26, 2010, 03:19 PM
Is your grammar defective? Just askin'.

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Re: Is the Quran really Heliocentric???
Reply #8 - August 16, 2010, 09:15 AM

I think I'll let this guy believe in what he wants to believe ... He seems happier that way
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Re: Is the Quran really Heliocentric???
Reply #9 - August 16, 2010, 09:21 AM

Quote from: pyramid on August 16, 2010, 09:15 AM
I think I'll let this guy believe in what he wants to believe ... He seems happier that way

You can be both happy AND right

Don't talk to him to try to convert him, just talk to him. If he wants to believe despite evidence to the contrary then you'd be wasting your time in trying to convert him anyway.

I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
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Re: Is the Quran really Heliocentric???
Reply #10 - August 16, 2010, 05:27 PM

This verse doesn't say anything about heliocentric world. In fact if you read it carefully, you find some places which actually support geocentric world. In my humble opinion, this verse is vague and anyone can take any meaning from this verse. I sometimes wonder that if God really wants us to give scientific miracle in quran , why there is not a single unequivocal and unambiguous verse that clearly states that earth is revolving around the sun.
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Re: Is the Quran really Heliocentric???
Reply #11 - August 16, 2010, 06:33 PM

Quote from: shoaib on August 16, 2010, 05:27 PM
This verse doesn't say anything about heliocentric world. In fact if you read it carefully, you find some places which actually support geocentric world. In my humble opinion, this verse is vague and anyone can take any meaning from this verse. I sometimes wonder that if God really wants us to give scientific miracle in quran , why there is not a single unequivocal and unambiguous verse that clearly states that earth is revolving around the sun.

And without such an unambiguous verse I would at the very least expect the Quran not to have verses which could easily represent the commonly held misconception of the time, that the Sun orbited the Earth.

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http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
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Re: Is the Quran really Heliocentric???
Reply #12 - August 17, 2010, 07:03 AM

I
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Re: Is the Quran really Heliocentric???
Reply #13 - August 17, 2010, 12:13 PM

26:28 Lord of the East and the West, and all between! if ye only had sense!
43:38 At length, when (such a one) comes to Us, he says (to his evil companion): "Would that between me and thee were the distance of East and West!" Ah! evil is the companion!

The distance between east and west? It is fact an arbitrary size greater than zero, but on a flat Earth it would be the two points on Earth with the greatest possible distance and therefore significant.

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http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
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