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Theme Changer

 Topic: Hello from Cairo

 (Read 8062 times)
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  • Re: Hello from Cairo
     Reply #30 - August 15, 2010, 03:35 PM

    Cairo has become the stage for "Muslim Idol". Its a contest to see who can look and appear more religious. Taxis and their saudi flags painted on the rear, those sunnah beards, prayer zebeebas, shouting out loud and proud "Ana Raye7 asalli we raga3" (Ahem, I'm going go to pray now! be right back"

    And posters saying "Islam is the solution" to Egypt's problems. Well I'd rather have another 20 years of the National Demo-crap-it Party of Egypt than the Muslim Brotherhood.

    We can learn so much more from Egypt's deep pharaonic pre islamic and pre-christian past (roman-byzantine times were probably the worst) than from a book badly written by highly misguided caliphs in the middle of nowhere during the darkest of the dark ages. We have pyramids, temples, mummies, tombs, and they dare call the Koran, a book full of inconsistent "moral" lessons, asymmetrical poetic meters, narratives that are plain nonsense and in a dictatorship language CLEARLY addressed to men, a miracle?

    A monkey can do better work. A monkey.

    Just what do they mean when they say "3asr el Gahili"? What do they think they're talking about? Are they retarded? Yes, the Arabian gulf has always been and will always be in an infinite "age of ignorance" both before and after Islam. News for you: you're still worshipping a big black cube just like before Higra, day 1, year 1. Don't give me that garbage about it being the house of god on earth built by adam and then abraham and then *yawwwn*. If you're bending you're knees and got you're head on the ground in front of it, you're frikkin praying to it just like it was an idol my friend. There ain't no difference between the use of the Kaaba before and after Higra, it just went from one corporate name to another.

    And pride in the prophet...are we supposed to be proud of an illiterate freak being our transcendent spiritual leader? I doubt he was illiterate. He was one master-minded criminal. Bravo Mr. Mohammed, today's terrorists, sex criminals and thieves all combined couldn't hold a candle to you sir.

    And I don't have much better to say for the bible or talmud by the way. I know enough that all "holy" books are full of it.

    geeze, i'm one angry man.


    aywa keda edhom 3la afahom !!! Tongue


    [13:36] <Fimbles> anything above 7 inches
    [13:37] <Fimbles> is wacko
    [13:37] <Fimbles> see
    [13:37] <Fimbles> you think i'd enjoy anything above 7 inches up my arse?
  • Re: Hello from Cairo
     Reply #31 - August 15, 2010, 04:17 PM

    aywa keda edhom 3la afahom !!! Tongue




    Cheesy

    ...
  • Re: Hello from Cairo
     Reply #32 - August 15, 2010, 07:47 PM


    well it seems that a lot of people here are willing respect for them, freedom of speech and so on but I only see blasphemous words against the Prophet, Islam and the religions in general. Is this not a kind of extremism?. Maybe if some would have the power, I think that they will be just a kind of Pol pot and kill each one who believe or put them in camps like Bush did with Guantanamo or built some gulags in Siberia... . The bloodiest killing and misery in all time was under the secular in the 20 century with the two world wars, Hiroshima. Oh no, I am sorry, Mohamed did it...
  • Re: Hello from Cairo
     Reply #33 - August 15, 2010, 08:06 PM

    The problem that the world isn't so binary.  It isn't theocracy vs secularism.   it is people with political ideas of which religious ideas are a subset.  the question the becomes not what has killed the most/ least but what correct.   Even if religious people hadn't killed anyone I still wouldn't join it because it needs to prove its assertions on why it gets set the rules and it never has.  The evidence that Islam is true or Christianity or any other religion really comes from a superior being is pretty slim.  Until they can prove their assertions I just can't get on board with the things they advocate.  I will treat religion just like capitalism, communism, monarchy etc.  As an political system to be critiqued and held to account for what it advocates. 

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Hello from Cairo
     Reply #34 - August 15, 2010, 08:20 PM

    Hi Razi, welcome.

    Egypt is a very interesting place, and I like most of it.
    One thing I found very curious was, even the muslims over there are very protective and respectful towards the pharaoh.
    Most people I talked also got very stressed when I pointed this out.
    Smiley

  • Re: Hello from Cairo
     Reply #35 - August 15, 2010, 08:29 PM

    well it seems that a lot of people here are willing respect for them, freedom of speech and so on but I only see blasphemous words against the Prophet, Islam and the religions in general. Is this not a kind of extremism?. Maybe if some would have the power, I think that they will be just a kind of Pol pot and kill each one who believe or put them in camps like Bush did with Guantanamo or built some gulags in Siberia... . The bloodiest killing and misery in all time was under the secular in the 20 century with the two world wars, Hiroshima. Oh no, I am sorry, Mohamed did it...


    Julien. What is blasphemy and why does it happen? Am I criticizing the prophet, the koran and islam for personal and selfish gains? To point and shout "Blasphemer!" is a symptom of squeaky clean brainwashing. The religion that punishes criticism is the one that needs the most criticism.  

    You're right about the 20th century being probably the bloodiest and those responsible (Hitler and Stalin) were all atheist. But they still believed in their own ideology as blindly as muslims do, and attack opposition and criticism with the same fervor. Yes, they did have a religion. Fascist and Communist ideology was their religion, Hitler and Karl Marx were their prophets, Mein Kampf and the Communist Manifesto their holy books. Its all the same: dogma.

    The only difference between communism/fascism and religion is that communism/fascism promised rewards in this life, religion promised them in the next life. In both cases, false promises.

    Following anything blindly, be it religion or political ideology without questioning the powers that be, and persecuting those who don't agree with you, is bad. I'm for universal secularism, not universal atheism. If everyone had the same world view as me, it would be a damn boring world.

    But I must have the right to "blaspheme" and criticize religion as I want, just as much as religions have the right to criticize atheists. Try it, it feels great.

    Oh and another very bloody century you forgot to mention, the 13th. The mongol invaders, who had no religion in particular, destroyed Baghdad and Damascus in 1258 and they never recovered their former glory.
  • Re: Hello from Cairo
     Reply #36 - August 15, 2010, 08:38 PM

    Welcome Al-Razi

     far away hug
  • Re: Hello from Cairo
     Reply #37 - August 15, 2010, 08:45 PM

    Hi Razi, welcome.

    Egypt is a very interesting place, and I like most of it.
    One thing I found very curious was, even the muslims over there are very protective and respectful towards the pharaoh.
    Most people I talked also got very stressed when I pointed this out.
    Smiley




    True, some Egyptians have respect for their ancient past, most don't. Do you know how much of Ancient Egypt was destroyed during the Byzantine period? In the name of christ, they destroyed temples, libraries, tombs etc. And you can see intrusive churches in temples today, where the faces of deities are chiseled over and coptic crosses chiseled into the walls of temples. Alexandria, the centre of hellenistic intellect, was the arena for the battle between christianity and paganism in the late 4th century CE, thank you pope Kyrillos I.

    It doesn't stop there. In 1190s under the Ayyubid sultan, Malik el Aziz, tried and failed to destroy the pyramid of Mycerinus/Menkaure (4th dynasty pharaoh). And there are still many Egyptians who still fear that we could slip back into "idol worship" and thusly call for the destruction of all traces of civilization in Egypt before the invasion of Islam.

    The educated Egyptians who study and are crazy about Ancient Egypt and still mindful of Islam and practice it moderately, never bother to think: "Hmm, the Ancient Egyptian religion has been around for 3000 years, did they ever think their country would be muslim long after their time?" Then logically deduct that "Islam has only been around for 1429 years, could possibly another religion that we cannot imagine dominate Egypt 2000 years from now?", arriving at the conclusion: "Religions come, and go". and finally "Religion = politics, like it was in the days of the pharaohs, and like it is now."


  • Re: Hello from Cairo
     Reply #38 - August 16, 2010, 12:18 PM


    AL RAZI,

    There is I think differences between  criticising and  blasphemy. I accept criticism and I find it quite healthy and one should have the right to do it and ask questions. There many things witch I don't like within the community and actually I prefer to live in a secular society where nearly everyone can live as he like to do it.

    @deusvult "Until they can prove their assertions I just can't get on board with the things they advocate"

    Religion is here as a belief. Or you believe in it or not, that's the challenge. You will find it out the moment of your death.  Faith is like feelings, like love, hate, jalousy; will you find it somewhere in a body?.
  • Re: Hello from Cairo
     Reply #39 - August 16, 2010, 12:36 PM

    True, some Egyptians have respect for their ancient past, most don't. Do you know how much of Ancient Egypt was destroyed during the Byzantine period? In the name of christ, they destroyed temples, libraries, tombs etc. And you can see intrusive churches in temples today, where the faces of deities are chiseled over and coptic crosses chiseled into the walls of temples. Alexandria, the centre of hellenistic intellect, was the arena for the battle between christianity and paganism in the late 4th century CE, thank you pope Kyrillos I.

    It doesn't stop there. In 1190s under the Ayyubid sultan, Malik el Aziz, tried and failed to destroy the pyramid of Mycerinus/Menkaure (4th dynasty pharaoh). And there are still many Egyptians who still fear that we could slip back into "idol worship" and thusly call for the destruction of all traces of civilization in Egypt before the invasion of Islam.

    The educated Egyptians who study and are crazy about Ancient Egypt and still mindful of Islam and practice it moderately, never bother to think: "Hmm, the Ancient Egyptian religion has been around for 3000 years, did they ever think their country would be muslim long after their time?" Then logically deduct that "Islam has only been around for 1429 years, could possibly another religion that we cannot imagine dominate Egypt 2000 years from now?", arriving at the conclusion: "Religions come, and go". and finally "Religion = politics, like it was in the days of the pharaohs, and like it is now."





    I think Egypt ought to first get rid of the water and electricity problem

    after that fix the education and worry about muslim brotherhood..

    [13:36] <Fimbles> anything above 7 inches
    [13:37] <Fimbles> is wacko
    [13:37] <Fimbles> see
    [13:37] <Fimbles> you think i'd enjoy anything above 7 inches up my arse?
  • Re: Hello from Cairo
     Reply #40 - August 16, 2010, 05:29 PM

    AL RAZI,

    There is I think differences between  criticising and  blasphemy. I accept criticism and I find it quite healthy and one should have the right to do it and ask questions. There many things witch I don't like within the community and actually I prefer to live in a secular society where nearly everyone can live as he like to do it.

    @deusvult "Until they can prove their assertions I just can't get on board with the things they advocate"

    Religion is here as a belief. Or you believe in it or not, that's the challenge. You will find it out the moment of your death.  Faith is like feelings, like love, hate, jalousy; will you find it somewhere in a body?.


    I find the term "blasphemy" rather inadequate. It does not quite reflect ones intention. Criticism or blasphemy against any religion should not be a crime. Besides, i'm blaspheming against my own religion which I grew up in, this is my reaction to it. True it may be a tad shocking and aggressive, but even the most heinous blasphemy is dwarfed by the crimes committed by religion (or in the name of it) against humanity.

    Not to say that I would condone things like "National burn a koran day" and so forth, that is not constructive "blasphemy". But to say such things about the prophets and the holy books is an idea that, to me at least, shines more truth than what is taught in revealed scripture.

    Religion is just words in a book. Someone like Stalin, was just a man. Dare say something bad about him when he was alive and you would disappear into thin air. Islam has unfortunately built around the prophet the same cult of personality where we scare ourselves into "submission". Fear plays a huge part in the orchestra of religion, and therefore we must allow ourselves to be defiant.

    Faith. A tricky thing. We can all write thousands of words about what faith means to us and everyone would come up with a different essay. But the question remains, is faith an innate emotion? and if so, faith in what? Every baby is born an unbeliever until it learns from its surroundings and begins to build its own system of truth. Faith in god (one or many, be it allah, jehova or vishnu) is not innate. Faith is something that is learned, and it can either be easily abused. It is not innate since it is clearly not necessarily for survival. Love, and fear, we need these to survive, just like animals, whom we are closer to than we think. Animals exhibit no faith, at least non that humans can recognize.

    I do have faith. I have faith in myself and in my own abilities which we work hard for. They're not some reward from blah blah blah. I also have faith in others, in the human mind to do fantastic things despite all odds. My faith is constantly fed by proof and reward, religion has given me nothing to work with. I've taken plenty of leaps of faith in my life, but my faith is in the here and now, not in the heavens and hereafter.
  • Re: Hello from Cairo
     Reply #41 - August 16, 2010, 05:34 PM

    Welcome Al Razi   Smiley
  • Re: Hello from Cairo
     Reply #42 - August 16, 2010, 07:30 PM


    AL-RAZI,

    well, I don't think that I am a fanatic and I try to be logical. But you see, I don't believe that a person is born an unbeliever. When I was little as a Christian, I was the the only one in my family who goes to the church without that someone told me to go. In fact all my family tend more to be atheist.

    Well, I cannot be an atheist; if you see a beautiful car or something others and somebody tell you, well we found it here, nobody built it. You will think, this man ist crazy. Look at the earth, how perfect it is and so much more complex that all what a man can do; would you say, that it is just here like this out of nothing? Crazy...
  • Re: Hello from Cairo
     Reply #43 - August 16, 2010, 07:37 PM

    But we've all seen cars be built, we can all go and talk to car manufacturers, mechanics, etc.  How many times have you seen a planet being built?  How many times have you spoken to someone who built one?

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Hello from Cairo
     Reply #44 - August 16, 2010, 07:52 PM


    Has I said many times, religion is a question of belief or not. Everyone is trying to say that religions are not true, Prophets are fakes and that the idea of god is wrong and for stupid people but no one here can prof that there is no God.
  • Re: Hello from Cairo
     Reply #45 - August 16, 2010, 07:52 PM

    Julien, the "argument from design" is a flawed argument.
    Also see: Unintelligent Design

    German ex-Muslim forumMy YouTubeList of Ex-Muslims
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  • Re: Hello from Cairo
     Reply #46 - August 16, 2010, 07:54 PM

    ... but no one here can prof that there is no God.


    Now you're asking us "to prove a negative". You should really read up on these arguments and understand how scepticism works.

    German ex-Muslim forumMy YouTubeList of Ex-Muslims
    Wikis: en de fr ar tr
    CEMB-Chat
    I'm on an indefinite break...
  • Re: Hello from Cairo
     Reply #47 - August 16, 2010, 07:55 PM

    No one has ever tried to, we're too sensible to attempt the illogical task of proving a negative.  You make a positive assertion, you provide supporting evidence for it.  In other words, it is up to you to prove god's existence, not us to disprove it.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Hello from Cairo
     Reply #48 - August 16, 2010, 10:54 PM

    Has I said many times, religion is a question of belief or not. Everyone is trying to say that religions are not true, Prophets are fakes and that the idea of god is wrong and for stupid people but no one here can prof that there is no God.

    How can one prove that God does not exist? No one can prove that someone or something does not exist. It is you, the believer has to prove that God exists. An athiest does not have to prove anything - as an I athiest, I don't care whether God exists. But I am convinced that God is a creation of human beings, but it does not mean that He exists.

    वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
    Entire World is One Family
    سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
  • Re: Hello from Cairo
     Reply #49 - August 16, 2010, 10:56 PM

    Has I said many times, religion is a question of belief or not. Everyone is trying to say that religions are not true, Prophets are fakes and that the idea of god is wrong and for stupid people but no one here can prof that there is no God.

    I am not really bothered whether there is a creator or not, afaik there might be/there might not be.    The only question that interests me is Islam & other religions are fakes, as that would afffect the way I carry out my life.  And the answer is yes to that.

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