Richard Dawkins Likens Burqas To Trash Bags

12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
- _truth_
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Richard Dawkins Likens Burqas To Trash Bags
OP - August 11, 2010, 05:48 AM

Quote
Outspoken British academic Richard Dawkins has sparked outrage by likening the burqa to a "full bin liner." [The British phrase for trash bag.]

In an interview with the Radio Times, the 69-year-old author and evolutionary biologist reportedly said he is filled with "visceral revulsion" when he sees Muslim women wearing the traditional, face-covering Islamic veils.

Yet Dawkins, well known as a prominent defender of atheism, stopped short of advocating a burqa ban. "As a liberal, I would hesitate to propose a blanket ban on any style of dress because of the implications of individual liberty and freedom of choice," he told the Daily Mail after making his initial remarks.

Dawkins is currently promoting a new documentary titled "Faith School Menace?" in which he argues that religious schools encourage social segregation.

Local Muslim organizations quickly slammed Dawkins' remarks, dismissing them as "Islamophobic." "Britain is a diverse and free society," said Seyyed Ferjani of the Muslim Association of Britain. "Why does it matter to this man what a woman is wearing? We should be encouraging respect and understanding for each other."

Meanwhile, the debate over whether or not to permit the burqa continues to divide European legislators. Last month, the French government voted to prohibit the burqa and the niqab -- a piece of cloth covering the face -- from public places, which sparked an outcry among Muslim groups.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/10/richard-dawkins-likens-bu_n_676868.html?loc=interstitialskip

Well he does speak the truth. He is not for banning the veil but he is right. Burka is absolutely unnecessary
- thinkfree
- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Richard Dawkins Likens Burqas To Trash Bags
Reply #1 - August 11, 2010, 08:42 AM

At least they printed a nice picture of him, for once.

Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
Propagandhi - Failed States
- Absurdist
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Richard Dawkins Likens Burqas To Trash Bags
Reply #2 - August 11, 2010, 09:20 AM

I'm glad he opposes the ban. Wasn't expecting it from him.
- osmanthus
- Cave dwelling
- Pub Regular
- Fingerer of piglets
- offline
Re: Richard Dawkins Likens Burqas To Trash Bags
Reply #3 - August 11, 2010, 09:31 AM

I did expect it. Supporting the ban would be rather totalitarian, for want of enough motivation to find a better term. Niqabs and burqas do not actually endanger anyone so there's no real basis for banning them. It'd be like banning any other form of clothing. The only exception to this IMO is situations where having faces covered can be a security risk. For example I can see banks banning people from wearing niqabs and burqas inside a bank, because they are ideal cover for bank robbers. You aren't allowed to wear a full face motorbike helmet inside a bank for the same reason (at least not over here you can't).

Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West.
- thinkfree
- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Richard Dawkins Likens Burqas To Trash Bags
Reply #4 - August 11, 2010, 09:34 AM

Quote from: Abood on August 11, 2010, 09:20 AM
I'm glad he opposes the ban. Wasn't expecting it from him.

Really? I've always had him down as a fairly level-headed liberal.

I guess the 'anti-New Atheist' propaganda machine must be working on some level.

Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
Propagandhi - Failed States
- Absurdist
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Richard Dawkins Likens Burqas To Trash Bags
Reply #5 - August 11, 2010, 09:39 AM

Isn't he a militant atheist?
- thinkfree
- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Richard Dawkins Likens Burqas To Trash Bags
Reply #6 - August 11, 2010, 09:44 AM

Quote from: Abood on August 11, 2010, 09:39 AM
Isn't he a militant atheist?

Yeah, a pretty dangerous one at that.

Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
Propagandhi - Failed States
- Absurdist
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Richard Dawkins Likens Burqas To Trash Bags
Reply #7 - August 11, 2010, 09:54 AM

<_<
- Solara
- After the Fall
- Ex-Muslim
- Life goes on.
- offline
Re: Richard Dawkins Likens Burqas To Trash Bags
Reply #8 - August 11, 2010, 10:13 AM

Quote from: thinkfree on August 11, 2010, 09:44 AM
Yeah, a pretty dangerous one at that.

(Clicky for piccy!)

I love that pic! ::SAVED::

Life is what happens to you while you're staring at your smartphone.

Eternal Sunshine of the Religionless Mind
- Shahid Raza
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Richard Dawkins Likens Burqas To Trash Bags
Reply #9 - August 11, 2010, 11:38 AM

Quote from: osmanthus on August 11, 2010, 09:31 AM
The only exception to this IMO is situations where having faces covered can be a security risk. For example I can see banks banning people from wearing niqabs and burqas inside a bank, because they are ideal cover for bank robbers. You aren't allowed to wear a full face motorbike helmet inside a bank for the same reason (at least not over here you can't).

You aren't allowed to wear a full face helmet in MOST public places, including banks, supermarkets, malls, cinemas, airports, schools, hospitals etc. There should be absolutely no exception with the burka.

The only place where women should be allowed to wear the burka and where no one should be allowed to stop them is at home in the street.

If she inside any other public place and she is asked to remove it... then she should either comply or get out.

.
- Absurdist
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Richard Dawkins Likens Burqas To Trash Bags
Reply #10 - August 11, 2010, 11:48 AM

Quote from: osmanthus on August 11, 2010, 09:31 AM
I did expect it. Supporting the ban would be rather totalitarian, for want of enough motivation to find a better term. Niqabs and burqas do not actually endanger anyone so there's no real basis for banning them. It'd be like banning any other form of clothing. The only exception to this IMO is situations where having faces covered can be a security risk. For example I can see banks banning people from wearing niqabs and burqas inside a bank, because they are ideal cover for bank robbers. You aren't allowed to wear a full face motorbike helmet inside a bank for the same reason (at least not over here you can't).

I agree with you, but I know many militant atheists, both friends and public figures (eg. Christopher Hitchens) who wholeheartedly support the ban.
- mighty_cats
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Richard Dawkins Likens Burqas To Trash Bags
Reply #11 - August 11, 2010, 06:58 PM

Alot of women wear Burqa's, not by choice, but by force.

Its all well and good to talk about 'freedom', but you can't have universal freedom unless everyone agrees to it.

Otherwise you may aswell be saying "here's your freedom so you can go and take away that other persons freedom'.

Are we also going to give people the freedom to lock up other people in confinement for no apparent reason?

This is a secular country, we should make this fact clear and rid people who don't wish to abide by secular standards.

Let's not forget, we can give freedom for religion to gain power ,but they aren't going to allow us the freedom to take power back.
I fully support the ban.
- Ram
- Member
- offline
Re: Richard Dawkins Likens Burqas To Trash Bags
Reply #12 - August 11, 2010, 08:39 PM

^ I agree. I don't think women like wearing ugly uncomfortable clothes. I am sure, if given the choice, overwhelming majority of women in Islamic holy land of Saudi Arabia will burn their veils. We can say the same thing about women in Afghanistan, Iran, Pakistan and every Muslim country.

I feel sorry for women who wear the hideous garments but at the same time I am over come with revulsion when I see women covered in ghostlike attires. I wonder what these women trying to hide?

वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
Entire World is One Family
سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
- Absurdist
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Richard Dawkins Likens Burqas To Trash Bags
Reply #13 - August 11, 2010, 08:51 PM

OK, for one thing, many women choose to wear the burqa.

For another, what would banning the burqa do? I'll tell you: It'll prevent women who are forced by men to wear it from leaving the house, as they'll just use the ban as an excuse to keep them indoors. So basically you'd be helping in the oppression of already oppressed women. Good job.

What we have to do is ensure that there's a choice in the matter. That's the best solution.
- mighty_cats
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Richard Dawkins Likens Burqas To Trash Bags
Reply #14 - August 11, 2010, 09:29 PM

By this standard, we shouldn't kill enemies groups who have hostages, because we would be making it worse for the hostages.
The line has to be drawn somewhere.

Traditional Islam cannot survive in an environment where it can't contaminate.
The Burqa is the beginning, Mosques should be taken down next, one by one and made publicly clear that this is a secular society and that religion will abide by secular rule
(no funding, no tax breaks, no special abilities, no special respect)

The problems of Islam would eventually have no choice but to leave.
- Absurdist
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Richard Dawkins Likens Burqas To Trash Bags
Reply #15 - August 11, 2010, 09:32 PM

Do you also advocate getting rid of churches and synagogues?
- mighty_cats
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Richard Dawkins Likens Burqas To Trash Bags
Reply #16 - August 11, 2010, 09:33 PM

Quote from: Abood on August 11, 2010, 08:51 PM
What we have to do is ensure that there's a choice in the matter. That's the best solution.

The choice being what exactly?
You can't wear the Burqa in a public building...unless you want to?
- mighty_cats
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Richard Dawkins Likens Burqas To Trash Bags
Reply #17 - August 11, 2010, 09:33 PM

Quote from: Abood on August 11, 2010, 09:32 PM
Do you also advocate getting rid of churches and synagogues?

Ofcourse
- thinkfree
- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Richard Dawkins Likens Burqas To Trash Bags
Reply #18 - August 11, 2010, 09:45 PM

I think that's going a bit too far, personally.

Places of worship should be tightly regulated by the Atheist Caliphate, of course.

Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
Propagandhi - Failed States
- Absurdist
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Richard Dawkins Likens Burqas To Trash Bags
Reply #19 - August 11, 2010, 09:50 PM

Quote from: mighty_cats on August 11, 2010, 09:33 PM
Ofcourse

Well, you see, I'm not an anti-theist. In fact, I believe anti-theism is equal to fundamental religiosity. They all force people to abide by their rules and don't tolerate other beliefs.
- mighty_cats
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Richard Dawkins Likens Burqas To Trash Bags
Reply #20 - August 11, 2010, 09:50 PM

'Atheist Caliphate'?

Places of 'worship' don't need to be controlled per-se, they simply need to have all public funding and tax incentives removed.
If god wants it, then god can pay for it.

Either that or atleast provide a consistent definition of what their god actually is.

(If it knows and see's everything, then the building is irrelevant, if it predetermines our lives, then the building coming down is gods plan, if gods all powerful but doesn't defend against the removal of the building, then we'll take it as an o.k from it...ofcourse, all of those conflict with Islam because somethings only true when it supports their intentions)
- mighty_cats
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Richard Dawkins Likens Burqas To Trash Bags
Reply #21 - August 11, 2010, 09:54 PM

Quote from: Abood on August 11, 2010, 09:50 PM
Well, you see, I'm not an anti-theist. In fact, I believe anti-theism is equal to fundamental religiosity. They all force people to abide by their rules and don't tolerate other beliefs.

Im not talking about making people follow rules other than the fact that they don't receive special privilege for their unsupported anti-reality based concepts simply because lots of people happen to buy into it.
(why humor their concepts but not the other number of cults and various people in Mental asylums?)

The role is simple, this is a secular country, therefor Religion must be treated in a secular standard and 'Muhammed said I could'' is not a good argument for why some people are allowed to receive tax breaks,funds and/or walk into a bank with a mask, and others not.

On another note, The creator of the Jedi Religion was once refused entry into Tesco's because he was wearing a hood, regardless of his religious beliefs that called for it.
- Absurdist
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Richard Dawkins Likens Burqas To Trash Bags
Reply #22 - August 11, 2010, 09:58 PM

But you said you're against religious temples. That has nothing to do with giving special privilege to religions. Religious people should have a right to build buildings, just like other individuals.
- ateapotist
- Supermassive Black Hole
- Ex-Muslim
- Spaghettifier Extraordinaire
- offline
Re: Richard Dawkins Likens Burqas To Trash Bags
Reply #23 - August 11, 2010, 10:00 PM

Quote from: mighty_cats on August 11, 2010, 09:29 PM
Traditional Islam cannot survive in an environment where it can't contaminate.
The Burqa is the beginning, Mosques should be taken down next, one by one and made publicly clear that this is a secular society and that religion will abide by secular rule

Wow! I can kinda understand the ban on the niqab. (Some heavyweight thinkers like Christopher Hitchens, Susan Blackmore, and Maryam Namazie etc, advocate the ban. But I personally, take the liberal position like Dawkins.)
But the ban on places of worship was unexpected. It is interesting that this view exists among respectable atheists. What happened to freedom of religion?

Quote
(no funding, no tax breaks, no special abilities, no special respect)

I agree with this bit.

"Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

Baloney Detection Kit
- Absurdist
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Richard Dawkins Likens Burqas To Trash Bags
Reply #24 - August 11, 2010, 10:03 PM

Quote from: ateapotist on August 11, 2010, 10:00 PM
What happened to freedom of religion?

Exactly my point. I'm against religion in politics precisely because it prevents freedom of religion, and in that sense, anti-theism is the exact same thing.
- mighty_cats
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Richard Dawkins Likens Burqas To Trash Bags
Reply #25 - August 11, 2010, 10:04 PM

Perhaps I did not make my point clear.

I am against Religious temples (for all of the above reasons)
and I do think that most should be torn down (those that are purchased with indirect non-islamic funding)
but I do think that Idiots are allowed to believe what ever nonsense they want.

My argument is that they are being funded and kept open at the expense of absolutely anything beneficial, to allow nothing more than mental masturbation to a minority of people of a minority of a sect who can't be bothered to educate themselves on anything more than the words of a man who couldn't provide anything more evidential than
' I talked to the angel,believe me'.
THAT is why they should be torn down.

Either that or god pays for them or the Muslims pay for them themselves, which is pretty unlikely for the majority.

In conclusion, tear them down.
- mighty_cats
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Richard Dawkins Likens Burqas To Trash Bags
Reply #26 - August 11, 2010, 10:05 PM

Quote from: ateapotist on August 11, 2010, 10:00 PM
Wow! I can kinda understand the ban on the niqab. (Some heavyweight thinkers like Christopher Hitchens, Susan Blackmore, and Maryam Namazie etc, advocate the ban. But I personally, take the liberal position like Dawkins.)
But the ban on places of worship was unexpected. It is interesting that this view exists among respectable atheists. What happened to freedom of religion?

Read my newest post above.
- thinkfree
- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Richard Dawkins Likens Burqas To Trash Bags
Reply #27 - August 11, 2010, 10:09 PM

Quote from: mighty_cats on August 11, 2010, 09:50 PM
'Atheist Caliphate'?

Places of 'worship' don't need to be controlled per-se, they simply need to have all public funding and tax incentives removed.
If god wants it, then god can pay for it.

But do you accept any of the methods of payment God offers? He can write you a personal cheque for the sum of infinite love, or wire the light of belief funds directly into your disbelieving heart from his bank account in Nigera.

Quote from: mighty_cats on August 11, 2010, 09:50 PM
Either that or atleast provide a consistent definition of what their god actually is.

(If it knows and see's everything, then the building is irrelevant, if it predetermines our lives, then the building coming down is gods plan, if gods all powerful but doesn't defend against the removal of the building, then we'll take it as an o.k from it...ofcourse, all of those conflict with Islam because somethings only true when it supports their intentions)

Being serious for a second, I agree that religious organisations shouldn't get tax breaks. They should pay just like any other social club or association. Charity work should done separately through established charities for those purposes, which abide fully by rules regarding offering services to the public. eg. No discrimination against homosexuals wishing to adopt.

Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
Propagandhi - Failed States
- Absurdist
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Richard Dawkins Likens Burqas To Trash Bags
Reply #28 - August 11, 2010, 10:11 PM

Temples are funded by private individuals, not the state, at least in secular societies.
- thinkfree
- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Richard Dawkins Likens Burqas To Trash Bags
Reply #29 - August 11, 2010, 10:13 PM

Quote from: mighty_cats on August 11, 2010, 10:04 PM
Perhaps I did not make my point clear.

I am against Religious temples (for all of the above reasons)
and I do think that most should be torn down (those that are purchased with indirect non-islamic funding)
but I do think that Idiots are allowed to believe what ever nonsense they want.

My argument is that they are being funded and kept open at the expense of absolutely anything beneficial, to allow nothing more than mental masturbation to a minority of people of a minority of a sect who can't be bothered to educate themselves on anything more than the words of a man who couldn't provide anything more evidential than
' I talked to the angel,believe me'.
THAT is why they should be torn down.

Either that or god pays for them or the Muslims pay for them themselves, which is pretty unlikely for the majority.

In conclusion, tear them down.

Instead of tearing them down, couldn't we sell them off cheap to be made into trendy wine bars and indoor go-kart circuits? Just thinking aloud.

Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
Propagandhi - Failed States
12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »