So...here it goes....I'm abz from Oz...how ya goin'?

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Re: So...here it goes....I'm abz from Oz...how ya goin'?
Reply #90 - July 17, 2010, 12:50 PM

Quote from: ras111 on July 17, 2010, 12:47 PM
She's in a foreign country that is quite different to what she's known before. She's started seeing Islam as an integral part of her identity, its not just an East African thing.

I understand why they do it, it was sorta tongue in cheek
But it still annoys me, you can keep your culture alive without needing all the baggage.

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Re: So...here it goes....I'm abz from Oz...how ya goin'?
Reply #91 - July 17, 2010, 12:52 PM

Quote from: Meredith on July 17, 2010, 12:43 PM
No we're losing and if someone doesn't contain it, I think Puntland will fall first.
What makes it worst is that the Somalia still gets million in foreign aid which goes to weapons whereas Somaliland is limited to only what it can get which is less a quarter of what Somalia gets.

Aid to who? The interim government of Mogadishu? What Somaliland and Punland need are more volunteers, even foreign ones willing to fight Al Shabab.

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Re: So...here it goes....I'm abz from Oz...how ya goin'?
Reply #92 - July 17, 2010, 12:56 PM

Quote from: ras111 on July 17, 2010, 12:52 PM
Aid to who? The interim government of Mogadishu? What Somaliland and Punland need are more volunteers, even foreign ones willing to fight Al Shabab.

Yes.
Whilst Somaliland is limited, Somalia gets more money pumped into it.

No, we do not need more fighters. If necessary landers would answer any call to war to protect our country if it was in danger of collapsing. Like our previous war, the diaspora played a integral role in its success setting up the guerrillas movement from London which eventually brought down Siad Barre and redeclared Somaliland independence.

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Re: So...here it goes....I'm abz from Oz...how ya goin'?
Reply #93 - July 17, 2010, 12:59 PM

Quote from: Meredith on July 17, 2010, 12:56 PM
Yes.
Whilst Somaliland is limited, Somalia gets more money pumped into it.

No, we do not need more fighters. If necessary landers would answer any call to war to protect our country if it was in danger of collapsing. Like our previous war, the diaspora played a integral role in its success setting up the guerrillas movement from London which eventually brought down Siad Barre and redeclared Somaliland independence.

You're from Somaliland then? Any chance that the unrecognised government there would settle for autonomy, the same way that Puntland does?

And why don't the diaspora do the same thing against Al Shabab? They're really just new colonisers. Most of them are Arabs and Pakistanis, I've heard it from Somalis themselves.

"Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

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Re: So...here it goes....I'm abz from Oz...how ya goin'?
Reply #94 - July 17, 2010, 01:04 PM

Quote from: ras111 on July 17, 2010, 12:59 PM
You're from Somaliland then? Any chance that the unrecognised government there would settle for autonomy, the same way that Puntland does?

And why don't the diaspora do the same thing against Al Shabab? They're really just new colonisers. Most of them are Arabs and Pakistanis, I've heard it from Somalis themselves.

I'm from Somaliland yes
Never, we will settle for no less than independence. The union between the South and North is over and if they try forcing our hand, another war will occur. We learned our lesson believe me.

Alot of Arabs are coming to fight Jihad and Asians, I have been told that as well by relatives in the region.
Because Somaliland has a strict neutral policy when it comes to regional politics.

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Re: So...here it goes....I'm abz from Oz...how ya goin'?
Reply #95 - July 17, 2010, 01:05 PM

Quote from: Meredith on July 17, 2010, 12:41 PM
Its the exact same for me and Somalis are really judgemental as well of each others children. They practically compare them to one another!

It's a real problem, but worse for the girls I think. I've overheard some conversations and the stuff that comes out of their mouths....wow. Then they act so nice and warm when the lady is in the room, they put on a good show.

Quote from: Meredith on July 17, 2010, 12:41 PM
But for my Mom it has gone a step further, she has started "hinting" I need to settle down. Pfft, perhaps when hell freezes over.

That can't be good....I've seen some nasty stuff. I knew a Somali girl whose mother threatened to commit suicide if she refused to marry some dude back home. Off to Somalia she went, smack bang in the middle of the school year. Shame came back married and pregnant with her first child. She's 19.

Quote from: Meredith on July 17, 2010, 12:41 PM
What is it with E African women? My Mom did the exact same thing. She was all nice and liberal, comes to UK and now she has gone all psychotic religious on me to "fit in"

I honestly can't begin to tell you how pissed off that has made me. Back then she was a schoolteacher with admiration for western-style democracy and civilization, took pride in speaking English, made a point to show how independent of menfolk she was and how well educated she was. Then we come to Australia....and we've adopted the regressive culture of the muslims we see around us, in more particular the Oromo, Harari, Afar & Somali ladies she mixes with. Her best friend in particular comes from Somaliland but grew up in Addis Abeba....her son, a promising medical student, dropped out of his studies to go learn to do da'wa in Ahmed deedat's academy in South Africa....I was like WTF? Apparently he felt pressured from his mum into doing it but I can't say for certain.
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Re: So...here it goes....I'm abz from Oz...how ya goin'?
Reply #96 - July 17, 2010, 01:12 PM

Quote from: abz on July 17, 2010, 01:05 PM
It's a real problem, but worse for the girls I think. I've overheard some conversations and the stuff that comes out of their mouths....wow. Then they act so nice and warm when the lady is in the room, they put on a good show.

Oh old Somali women are the worst when it comes to things like that.
They'll act really nice about you to your face, then BAM. The rumours start that you have been up to this or that and ofc girls get it worst. Boys always get the most freedom *envy*
And don't get me started on the spying. You know how Somalis are, we're all related one way or another. You have to be wary when out incase someone "reports" back

Quote
That can't be good....I've seen some nasty stuff. I knew a Somali girl whose mother threatened to commit suicide if she refused to marry some dude back home. Off to Somalia she went, smack bang in the middle of the school year. Shame came back married and pregnant with her first child. She's 19.

Counting down the days till I leave for Uni then I'm basically free cause I've moved out.
But it can't be good, emotional blackmail is horrible but something perfected by most Moms.

Quote
I honestly can't begin to tell you how pissed off that has made me.

Oh believe me, I understand how angry you are because I'd wager it pretty much reflects my feelings on the topic.
But to give my Mom her due, she encouraged my older brother to go University and get a degree, she would never allow him to drop out (she'd tear him a new one lol)

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Re: So...here it goes....I'm abz from Oz...how ya goin'?
Reply #97 - July 17, 2010, 01:23 PM

I got into a bit of biff with an old Somali woman when I was younger. I fancied myself as a pretty effective verbal-abuser and thought I could handle myself well enough....never again lol. She let me have it with some choice words.... infact the swearword/minute ratio was off the charts and when she was done with me, I was convinced I was nothing, a nobody and that I should believe some rather nasty things about my dad.

Quote from: Meredith
Counting down the days till I leave for Uni then I'm basically free cause I've moved out.
But it can't be good, emotional blackmail is horrible but something perfected by most Moms.

Oh wow that's awesome.

Quote from: Meredith
But to give my Mom her due, she encouraged my older brother to go University and get a degree, she would never allow him to drop out (she'd tear him a new one lol)

Good on her I say. I couldn't contemplate telling my mum I wasn't planning on further my studies or dropped out....simply unfathomable in my mind. Good thing that aint gonna happen.
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Re: So...here it goes....I'm abz from Oz...how ya goin'?
Reply #98 - July 17, 2010, 01:26 PM

Quote from: abz on July 17, 2010, 01:23 PM
I got into a bit of biff with an old Somali woman when I was younger. I fancied myself as a pretty effective verbal-abuser and thought I could handle myself well enough....never again lol. She let me have it with some choice words.... infact the swearword/minute ratio was off the charts and when she was done with me, I was convinced I was nothing, a nobody and that I should believe some rather nasty things about my dad.

Oh wow that's awesome.

Good on her I say. I couldn't contemplate telling my mum I'd dropped out....simply unfathomable in my mind. Good thing that aint gonna happen.

I never try it with the elders. They'd whoop my ass good lol

Awesome is one way to put it and I've picked a nice safe distance away from my family, like the other side of the country.

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Re: So...here it goes....I'm abz from Oz...how ya goin'?
Reply #99 - July 17, 2010, 01:37 PM

Hey Meredith.

I'm guessing you would agree with this?

http://www.somaliweyn.org/pages/news/Feb_10/23Feb18.html
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Re: So...here it goes....I'm abz from Oz...how ya goin'?
Reply #100 - July 17, 2010, 02:00 PM

Absolutely.
I am a strong advocate of creating alliances with Israel and Iran. I want us to play them off one another and use the port to do so.
Whoever offers the most gets to use the port, I care less if it affects the Middle East negatively.

I do not trust the Arab countries one jot when it comes to Somaliland. Look what has happened in Africa. Arabs do not care for Black Muslims, they watch us die and do nothing.

No no, Somaliland's future lies away from alliances with Arabs or Egypt and towards their enemies.

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Re: So...here it goes....I'm abz from Oz...how ya goin'?
Reply #101 - July 17, 2010, 06:17 PM

Quote from: Meredith on July 17, 2010, 02:00 PM
Absolutely.
I am a strong advocate of creating alliances with Israel and Iran. I want us to play them off one another and use the port to do so.
Whoever offers the most gets to use the port, I care less if it affects the Middle East negatively.

I do not trust the Arab countries one jot when it comes to Somaliland. Look what has happened in Africa. Arabs do not care for Black Muslims, they watch us die and do nothing.

No no, Somaliland's future lies away from alliances with Arabs or Egypt and towards their enemies.

The truth always prevails! . But yet these dawah merchants preach what an egalitarian religion Islam is ! So without going to somalia I have come to know the ground realities. Hey! how do you rate Ayan Hirsi Ali ?

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Re: So...here it goes....I'm abz from Oz...how ya goin'?
Reply #102 - July 17, 2010, 06:36 PM

Quote from: hypocrucifier on July 17, 2010, 06:17 PM
The truth always prevails! . But yet these dawah merchants preach what an egalitarian religion Islam is ! So without going to somalia I have come to know the ground realities. Hey! how do you rate Ayan Hirsi Ali ?

What is happening in Somalia is very complex, history and tribal politics is at play and at fault more than Islam ever will be.

Meh, not a fan of her at all.

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Re: So...here it goes....I'm abz from Oz...how ya goin'?
Reply #103 - July 17, 2010, 07:02 PM

If we're talking politics, I agree - it's more than just Islam that ruined things.

Social injustices though, especially when it comes to women's rights - I think Islam serves to reinforce traditional roles and practices and prevents our societies from moving beyond them. When you codify these certain mysogynist and discriminatory beliefs and practices in a body of religious texts, you make it that much harder for a society to shake it all off.
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Reply #104 - July 17, 2010, 07:28 PM

Perhaps but Islam is the last on the list of things I'd have when it comes to causes of Somalia's problem.

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Re: So...here it goes....I'm abz from Oz...how ya goin'?
Reply #105 - July 17, 2010, 07:35 PM

Historically, you're right ofcourse - but new problems are arising as a result of Islamic political ideology imo.
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Re: So...here it goes....I'm abz from Oz...how ya goin'?
Reply #106 - July 17, 2010, 07:37 PM

Quote from: abz on July 17, 2010, 07:35 PM
Historically, you're right ofcourse - but new problems are arising as a result of Islamic political ideology imo.

Oh I agree but the problems have not risen by Islam but the Islamic extremism is a consequence of tribal politics.

What do you think about Ayaan Hirsi?

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Reply #107 - July 17, 2010, 07:46 PM

Well, I read her book Infidel. Mixed feelings imo.

I find myself agreeing with much of what she says with regards to Islam's distaste for womens' rights and human rights in general, apostacy, freedom of speech and rest of it. I just had difficulty with her wholesale rejection of Somali culture and I'm not even Somali!

Just as an aside - she refers to an Oromo woman in her book (she was working as a translator in Holland) as a 'galla woman' which kinda annoyed me, it's a pretty friggin derogatory name and she should have known better.

I think she's a tad extreme in her outcomes although she correctly identifies the problems at hand.

What about you?
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Re: So...here it goes....I'm abz from Oz...how ya goin'?
Reply #108 - July 17, 2010, 07:48 PM

I could hug you right now.
When I ran across that bit, I threw the book down because it annoyed the hell out of me.

I don't like her at all.
She is too extreme, she acts like she represents Somali women when she doesn't. She has done more damage to her causes which I agree with by her actions than anything else and I get the impression she looks down on Somalis in general and how stupid we must be and the putting down of Somali culture and exaggeration which I dislike alot.

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Reply #109 - July 17, 2010, 08:09 PM

I think she should have made much clearer that her criticisms come from the viewpoint of her own life and that of the women that have experienced what she has - which, as you rightly say, is not shared by all somali women. She does come across as though she's speaking for all Somali women which I think is unfortunate - as clear a thinker and as articulate as she is.

She's sure to fire up & embolden many somali women, too. A characteristic I can't help but find an extreme turn on, just quietly. One thing I love about Somali women.
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Re: So...here it goes....I'm abz from Oz...how ya goin'?
Reply #110 - July 17, 2010, 08:17 PM

Quote from: abz on July 17, 2010, 08:09 PM
I think she should have made much clearer that her criticisms come from the viewpoint of her own life and that of the women that have experienced what she has - which, as you rightly say, is not shared by all somali women. She does come across as though she's speaking for all Somali women which I think is unfortunate - as clear a thinker and as articulate as she is.

She's sure to fire up & embolden many somali women, too. A characteristic I can't help but find an extreme turn on, just quietly. One thing I love about Somali women.

She should have made it clear but she did not.
She gave me the impression she thought Somali women were weak and considering the fact she is Somali and knows how we are really. She should have known better
She should have also bettered her approach, she will reach no Somali women even those who agree with her goals.

If she had done it correctly, she would have emboldened Somali women but she did not and it is a shame. Nothing pisses me off more than the issue of FGM

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Re: So...here it goes....I'm abz from Oz...how ya goin'?
Reply #111 - July 17, 2010, 08:29 PM

It's my sincere hope that more women with similar life experience come to the fore - just to add more balance to the debate.
I don't think it's healthy for any issue to have only one prominant person advocating only one perspective in any case, regardless of what the issue is.

For instance, we have child brides and FGM among the devout Ethiopian Orthodox Xtians in Ethio as well. The same among certain tribes in Kenya as well that are neither Somali nor Muslim.

Ayaan has the right to air her views, but the debate is always going to be skewed if we don't have more East African women coming to the fore and reflecting on their varied experiences.
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Reply #112 - July 17, 2010, 08:34 PM

I agree and I'm sorry to say but I think she weakened her position by her constant attacks on Muslims. That is no way to get Somalis on side and she knew it as a Somali

The first words out of my Mum's mouth when she saw her on the news was basically "Thank God she is not in our qabil, the shame is not ours". Which pretty much sums up the attitude of Somalis about her

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Re: So...here it goes....I'm abz from Oz...how ya goin'?
Reply #113 - July 17, 2010, 11:25 PM

Do other Africans hate Somalis? Like on some racist level? Basically seem them as arabs or not really black/african because they are muslims and close to arabic culture?
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Reply #114 - July 17, 2010, 11:41 PM

Quote from: BlackDog on July 17, 2010, 11:25 PM
Do other Africans hate Somalis? Like on some racist level? Basically seem them as arabs or not really black/african because they are muslims and close to arabic culture?

Well Some Somalis think that they are more Arab than Arabs and they are more Islamic than most other African Muslim folks..

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Reply #115 - July 17, 2010, 11:46 PM

Quote from: yeezevee on July 17, 2010, 11:41 PM
Well Some Somalis think that they are more Arab than Arabs and they are more Islamic than most other African Muslim folks..

Calling me Arab is probably the most insulting thing I can think of being called.

But some Somalis are deluded true

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Re: So...here it goes....I'm abz from Oz...how ya goin'?
Reply #116 - July 17, 2010, 11:47 PM

Quote from: Meredith on July 17, 2010, 11:46 PM

Calling me Arab is probably the most insulting thing I can think of being called.

^racist

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Reply #117 - July 17, 2010, 11:51 PM

Quote from: BlackDog on July 17, 2010, 11:25 PM
Do other Africans hate Somalis? Like on some racist level? Basically seem them as arabs or not really black/african because they are muslims and close to arabic culture?

I wouldn't consider us close to Arab culture at all. We keep many of our traditions that pre dates both
But racism hmm, I remember being called "white" in school by other classmates because apparently I didn't have "black peoples hair"
No idea wtf that meant but I assume it was meant to be offensive.
Oh and how Somalis are "real blacks" because apparently we are half Arab or "mixed race"
I had alot of stupid people in school

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Re: So...here it goes....I'm abz from Oz...how ya goin'?
Reply #118 - July 17, 2010, 11:51 PM

Quote from: Iblis on July 17, 2010, 11:47 PM
^racist

It is like me calling a Arab "Asian".
Or White person "Black".
Is it racist to correct someone?

I am African. Somalis are Black. We are not Arab because we from the continent of Africa

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Re: So...here it goes....I'm abz from Oz...how ya goin'?
Reply #119 - July 17, 2010, 11:54 PM

Quote from: Iblis on July 17, 2010, 11:47 PM
^racist

Quote from: Meredith on July 17, 2010, 11:46 PM

Calling me Arab is probably the most insulting thing I can think of being called.

But some Somalis are deluded true

that is true dear Meredith., Indeed some Somalis are deluded. But tell me about this., you said
Quote from: Meredith on July 17, 2010, 08:34 PM
I agree and I'm sorry to say but I think she weakened her position by her constant attacks on Muslims. That is no way to get Somalis on side and she knew it as a Somali

What was Ayaan Hirsi Ali position in Somalia and how she weakened it??
Quote
The first words out of my Mum's mouth when she saw her on the news was basically "Thank God she is not in our qabil, the shame is not ours". Which pretty much sums up the attitude of Somalis about her

But don't you think you Mom generations is different your generation?

http://www.somalilife.com/vbforum/archive/index.php/

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