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 Topic: French parliament approves ban on face veils

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  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #150 - July 15, 2010, 08:37 AM
    Quote from: Meredith on July 15, 2010, 03:25 AM
    I live in UK where I find our constitution to put it nicely, embarrassing. It is a joke and does not protect anything as it is a uncodified document which can be overturned with a simple majority in both houses. I envy Americans for their constitution.


    Right, because setting up setting up guantanamo bay and the homeland securties act in no way contarty to the spirt of the consitiutaion. ANd that constitution has never changed.

    Quote from: Meredith on July 15, 2010, 04:07 AM
    I agree with you, smoking ban should not have been introduced.
    Those non smokers should have took their money elsewhere and if there was a market. Businesses would have responded setting up establishments that cater to their needs specifically.
    The Government had no business getting involved in it.


    As a smoker, i would have agreed with you, but actually when the ban was enforced it really had no impact on me as a smoker. i'd just go outside to have a cigarette like everyone else. Non-smokers are happy, smokers are happy, well done a perfect example of an act that some feared would curtial thier freedoms, when in actuality it hasn't and everyone for the most part is happy

    Quote from: Meredith on July 15, 2010, 04:27 AM
    I also support the legalisation of drugs, prostitution, guns etc.  Afro


    well then you're a fucking idiot. The last thing we need is crackhead ho's armed to the teeth. 
    If you ask me to define anything i will slap you with my pimp hand and make you cry like a biatch.

    Nick Naylor: "I didn't have to. I proved that you're wrong, and if you're wrong I'm right."~ Thank you for Smoking

    Perspective
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #151 - July 15, 2010, 08:52 AM
    You can listen to a debate on the issue from BBC's Moral Maze programme last night here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qk11
    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #152 - July 15, 2010, 08:52 AM
    Quote from: Mr X on July 15, 2010, 08:37 AM
    Right, because setting up setting up guantanamo bay and the homeland securties act in no way contarty to the spirt of the consitiutaion. ANd that constitution has never changed.


    You fail. Pick up a history book.
    The US constitution has had 27 amendments to it. The first ten are known as the Bill of Rights. The last amendment was added in 1992.

    It is the citizens who have put such Government in place. The US constitution has worked for US for over 200 years

    US constitution rarely needs meddling.
    A codified constitution is superior to a uncodified one.

    Quote
    As a smoker, i would have agreed with you, but actually when the ban was enforced it really had no impact on me as a smoker. i'd just go outside to have a cigarette like everyone else. Non-smokers are happy, smokers are happy, well done a perfect example of an act that some feared would curtial thier freedoms, when in actuality it hasn't and everyone for the most part is happy


    Oh wonderful.
    A business now has the state trampling all over it to make a group of people happy.
    Open up non smokers bars if it is so bothering.
    And no, I fucking hate going outside especially when it rains so how am I "happy"? Quit attempting to speak for all of us smokers.

    Quote
    well then you're a fucking idiot. The last thing we need is crackhead ho's armed to the teeth.  


    And you are fucking ignorant fool with a limited view but hey, we all have our failings.
    Amsterdam has prostitution and cannabis legalised. Sweden has some of the most dangerous guns legalised and oh my fucking god. It has not collapsed into anarchy.
    Someone call the police

    QQ more. (If you don't know what that is google it)
    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #153 - July 15, 2010, 10:05 AM
    Quote
    You fail. Pick up a history book.
    The US constitution has had 27 amendments to it. The first ten are known as the Bill of Rights. The last amendment was added in 1992.


    apparently my sarcasm about the constitution was lost upon you

    Quote
    Oh wonderful.
    A business now has the state trampling all over it to make a group of people happy.
    Open up non smokers bars if it is so bothering.
    And no, I fucking hate going outside especially when it rains so how am I "happy"? Quit attempting to speak for all of us smokers.


    the state has a multitude of regulations governing businesses, whether it be health and safety or food preparation. You don't seem to be harping on about the government curtailing  your rights to die in a fire, or reducing your chances of getting food poisoning, why? it's patently absurd. Those smart business that want to cater for those smoking customers have done so, whether it be creating open aired smoking areas within their business or outside. You hate going outside, that's too bad, i've had the best of both world, encountering a smoking ban in nz before it landed in the uk, which made me realise it wasn't the end of the world, and actually would be a more pleasant experience for those that choose not to smoke. You're right however, i won't speak to all smokers, just the ones i know and have spoken to that realise it's a stupid thing to do in the first place and yeah it's not that big of a deal.

    Quote
    And you are fucking ignorant fool with a limited view but hey, we all have our failings.
    Amsterdam has prostitution and cannabis legalised. Sweden has some of the most dangerous guns legalised and oh my fucking god. It has not collapsed into anarchy.


    Who said anything about anarchy? Nz has legalised prostitution and legalised guns and in the top 10 peaceful places in the world to live, but the UK is not NZ, Amsterdam or Sweden.The UK i has a different society, a different culture and  a larger county, a smaller population. a different set of issues, a different set of problems.
    If you ask me to define anything i will slap you with my pimp hand and make you cry like a biatch.

    Nick Naylor: "I didn't have to. I proved that you're wrong, and if you're wrong I'm right."~ Thank you for Smoking

    Perspective
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #154 - July 15, 2010, 12:57 PM
    Quote from: Q-Man on July 15, 2010, 02:45 AM
    Good question(s). Remind me to tackle them when I come back. Big issue not prepared to go into right now.


    I'm interested also!  Afro

    Quote from: Iraqi Atheist on July 15, 2010, 03:53 AM
    I agree with you Meredith. But I believe sometimes a "paternalistic" state is needed. Otherwise, we shouldn't hold elections. We might as well just establish a national polling service and employ 100,000 pollsters to ask the people how they want to run the country.
    ....
    What I'm trying to say inarticulately is that we all should admit that we have contradictory views. No one is 100% libertarian and no one is 100% authoritarian. There is no red line. It's just degrees on the auth.-lib. spectrum.


    It's about achieving the right balance, I agree.

    Quote from: a.ghazali on July 15, 2010, 08:52 AM
    You can listen to a debate on the issue from BBC's Moral Maze programme last night here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qk11


    Thanks, good work BBC!

    Many good points brought up, including:

    74% of 16-24-year-olds would prefer Muslim women to choose to wear the veil, compared to 28% of 55+ year olds.

    ... and ...

    "If you ban this, more young women will want to do it as rebels"
    Hear ye -->> DONATE TO CEMB

    Relativism | Cognitive dissonance | Cognitive biases | Memeplex | Consequentialism
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #155 - July 15, 2010, 07:13 PM
    Quote from: Mr X on July 15, 2010, 08:37 AM
    As a smoker, i would have agreed with you, but actually when the ban was enforced it really had no impact on me as a smoker. i'd just go outside to have a cigarette like everyone else. Non-smokers are happy, smokers are happy, well done a perfect example of an act that some feared would curtial thier freedoms, when in actuality it hasn't and everyone for the most part is happy

    It did curtail freedoms. It curtailed my freedom to light up and smoke inside the bar. A private bar that is owned privately by individuals.
    If you wanna ban smoking in hospitals, buses, and government buildings, I'm with you. But he government had no right banning it in private premises.
    Instead they should've allowed bars and pubs to make their own rules. People who want non-smoking bars take their money to non-smoking bars and vice versa. And give bars the authority to enforce their rules. Let the market decide.
    Or at least introduce a system of quotas in which every town council allocates a number of permits for smoking bars, restaurants, and coffee shops. That way you have both.


    Quote from: Mr X on July 15, 2010, 08:37 AM
    well then you're a fucking idiot. The last thing we need is crackhead ho's armed to the teeth.

    Yeah because we don't have crackheads and "ho's" right now. The bans are working effectively.
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #156 - July 15, 2010, 07:23 PM
    There's no such thing as 'a right to smoke'. If anything there is (I won't call it a right) a reasonable expectancy of fresh air in the absence of wildfires.
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #157 - July 15, 2010, 07:30 PM
    Quote from: Q-Man on July 14, 2010, 10:49 PM
    Fishin for what?

    Cancelled due to inclement weather. I'll go tomorrow. I think I'll go inland to fish a lake for carp, roach, tench, perch and bream.
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #158 - July 15, 2010, 07:31 PM
    Quote from: sojournerlumus on July 15, 2010, 07:23 PM
    There's no such thing as 'a right to smoke'. If anything there is (I won't call it a right) a reasonable expectancy of fresh air in the absence of wildfires.

    OMG. You really don't get it, do you?
    There is a right to do whatever you want in your private home or premises. Nobody forces you to go to a smoking bar. It's not  a government building. You don't own it or rent it. The bar has the right to refuse you service.

    What's the difference between being able to let my friends smoke in home and being able to let customers smoke in my bar?
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #159 - July 15, 2010, 07:43 PM
    NO! You don't get it. You're obviously too young to have seen your loved ones die prematurely because of  any kind of sustained smoke inhalation, whether fresh or second hand.  I repeat, go to the hospital sputum ward and you'll see it for yourself. And if that doesn't convince you, your opinion counts for nothing.
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #160 - July 15, 2010, 07:53 PM
    Certainly everybody should be free to do whatever they like in their homes, but isn't it a bit stupid to expose your kids to the smoke of your cigarettes? I knew a guy who told me that his whole family used to constantly smoke, because of which his health was negatively affected.
    German ex-Muslim forum — My YouTube — List of Ex-Muslims —
    Wikis: en – de – fr – ar – tr
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    I'm on an indefinite break...
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #161 - July 15, 2010, 07:59 PM
    Quote from: sojournerlumus on July 15, 2010, 07:43 PM
    NO! You don't get it. You're obviously too young to have seen your loved ones die prematurely because of  any kind of sustained smoke inhalation, whether fresh or second hand.  I repeat, go to the hospital sputum ward and you'll see it for yourself. And if that doesn't convince you, your opinion counts for nothing.

    Oh FFS. I'm not arguing for smoking. I'm arguing for the freedom to smoke in private premises without government intervention.

    I'm a medical student BTW and I know a thing or two about this. I also know how obesity and fatty food can affect your health. They can cause atherosclerosis and can fuck-up the blood supply to the heart muscle (ischemia). Yet no one is advocating banning McDonalds.

    Like I said, introduce a quota system so that every town has 1 smoking bar to every 2/3 non-smoking ones. If you're a non-smoker you have options and if you're a smoker you have options.

    But in principle, even that is unjustified government intervention. I believe that if the government lifted all smoking bans tomorrow and allowed private businesses to set their rules, most bars/pubs will still be non-smoking. You know why? because they don't wanna lose their non-smoking customers!



    Quote from: Aziz on July 15, 2010, 07:53 PM
    Certainly everybody should be free to do whatever they like in their homes, but isn't it a bit stupid to expose your kids to the smoke of your cigarettes? I knew a guy who told me that his whole family used to constantly smoke, because of which his health was negatively affected.

    Yes that would be stupid. My dad and I go to the rear garden to smoke. And if it's raining we open the window and exhale outside so that my mum and sis are not exposed to smoke.
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #162 - July 15, 2010, 08:03 PM
    Quote from: sojournerlumus on July 15, 2010, 07:43 PM
    NO! You don't get it. You're obviously too young to have seen your loved ones die prematurely because of  any kind of sustained smoke inhalation, whether fresh or second hand.  I repeat, go to the hospital sputum ward and you'll see it for yourself. And if that doesn't convince you, your opinion counts for nothing.


    That's why I advocate making it law that everybody has to eat 5 fruit & veg a day.  Roll Eyes
    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #163 - July 15, 2010, 08:06 PM
    I think SL and Mr X are having us on here...
    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #164 - July 15, 2010, 08:09 PM
    Quote
    Yes that would be stupid. My dad and I go to the rear garden to smoke. And if it's raining we open the window and exhale outside so that my mum and sis are not exposed to smoke.


    how very noble of you, you don't want to expose your immediate family to smoking, but you're ok to let strangers and friends inhale when you're at the pub. For goodness sake its a private residence you can smoke inside when its cold and rainy outside, let them inhale you know it makes sense!
    If you ask me to define anything i will slap you with my pimp hand and make you cry like a biatch.

    Nick Naylor: "I didn't have to. I proved that you're wrong, and if you're wrong I'm right."~ Thank you for Smoking

    Perspective
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #165 - July 15, 2010, 08:13 PM
    Quote from: Aziz on July 15, 2010, 07:53 PM
    Certainly everybody should be free to do whatever they like in their homes, but isn't it a bit stupid to expose your kids to the smoke of your cigarettes? I knew a guy who told me that his whole family used to constantly smoke, because of which his health was negatively affected.

    Me too. And don't forget, if a woman is pregnant she not only causes damage to her foetus , if the foetus is female, also to the eggs developing in that foetus.
    The smoker damages her grandchildren.
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #166 - July 15, 2010, 08:15 PM
    Quote from: J4m3z on July 15, 2010, 08:03 PM
    That's why I advocate making it law that everybody has to eat 5 fruit & veg a day.  Roll Eyes

    Don't piss on the parade.
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #167 - July 15, 2010, 08:16 PM
    Quote from: Mr X on July 15, 2010, 08:09 PM
    how very noble of you, you don't want to expose your immediate family to smoking, but you're ok to let strangers and friends inhale when you're at the pub. For goodness sake its a private residence you can smoke inside when its cold and rainy outside, let them inhale you know it makes sense!

    Absolutely. Pubs are for everybody, not just smoke junkies.
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #168 - July 15, 2010, 08:19 PM
    well if the health freaks want to ban even my cigarettes (after they banned marijuana ) than i guess they can start using the shariah coz it won't matter anymore since it is almost the same, telling people what they can consume/do and what not. I totally support IA-s position in this issue and i think the same way too. The nonsmokers can go in nonsmoker bars, and us smokers can go in smoker bars... this way those that are afraid of second hand smoking can go in nonsmoker bars and leave us smokers alone.
    Quote from: FreeSoul007 on January 14, 2011, 05:00 AM
    Just look at the sun and the moon, rotating around the earth perfectly! Out of all the never ending space in the universe, the sun and moon ended up close to earth rotating around it perfectly.!!

  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #169 - July 15, 2010, 08:20 PM
    pubs are for everybody? so if i choose to go with my pijamas and some flip flops in a pub, you are willing to say that the bouncer has no right to deny my entry in that establishment???
    Quote from: FreeSoul007 on January 14, 2011, 05:00 AM
    Just look at the sun and the moon, rotating around the earth perfectly! Out of all the never ending space in the universe, the sun and moon ended up close to earth rotating around it perfectly.!!

  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #170 - July 15, 2010, 08:26 PM
    Quote from: Bardhi_i_zi on July 15, 2010, 08:19 PM
    well if the health freaks want to ban even my cigarettes (after they banned marijuana ) than i guess they can start using the shariah coz it won't matter anymore since it is almost the same, telling people what they can consume/do and what not. I totally support IA-s position in this issue and i think the same way too. The nonsmokers can go in nonsmoker bars, and us smokers can go in smoker bars... this way those that are afraid of second hand smoking can go in nonsmoker bars and leave us smokers alone.

    There's no such thing as a health freak. That phrase is an invention of the tobacco and fast food organisations. But there is such a thing as a tobacco freak.
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #171 - July 15, 2010, 08:27 PM
    Quote from: Bardhi_i_zi on July 15, 2010, 08:20 PM
    pubs are for everybody? so if i choose to go with my pijamas and some flip flops in a pub, you are willing to say that the bouncer has no right to deny my entry in that establishment???

      Go in what you like but don't foul other people's air.
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #172 - July 15, 2010, 08:28 PM
    Yes there is such a thing as a health freak.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #173 - July 15, 2010, 08:30 PM
    SL, if the owner of a pub wanted to, why couldn't they designate half the pub as smoking areas and the other half as non-smoking?
    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #174 - July 15, 2010, 08:35 PM
    there are no health freaks??? come on you almost sound as one of them... No-one is pushing you to go in a smokers bar... The thing what you are saying is the same as going in a gay bar and demanding that gays should not be allowed in bars, even though u chose to go in such a bar. We smokers agree silently that it is ok to foul the air around us, so you do not have to join us and start telling us what to do.. go 20 meters away where you can enjoy "clean" air.
    Quote from: FreeSoul007 on January 14, 2011, 05:00 AM
    Just look at the sun and the moon, rotating around the earth perfectly! Out of all the never ending space in the universe, the sun and moon ended up close to earth rotating around it perfectly.!!

  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #175 - July 15, 2010, 08:36 PM
    @J4 : They used to do, they were called smoking saloons, but smokers, being the sort of people who don't give a fuck, began to invade the non-smoking areas too, until it became the new norm.
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #176 - July 15, 2010, 08:39 PM
    some pubs . bars do if they have the space / correct layout. but you have to ensure that there is a separation between the two. Usually it has to be an open area, it can be a covered open area ( like a beer garden with a large parasol)
    If you ask me to define anything i will slap you with my pimp hand and make you cry like a biatch.

    Nick Naylor: "I didn't have to. I proved that you're wrong, and if you're wrong I'm right."~ Thank you for Smoking

    Perspective
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #177 - July 15, 2010, 08:39 PM
    I don't remember smokers invading the non-smoking areas. If they did I'd have said something.
    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #178 - July 15, 2010, 08:40 PM
    Quote from: Mr X on July 15, 2010, 08:39 PM
    some pubs . bars do if they have the space / correct layout. but you have to ensure that there is a separation between the two. Usually it has to be an open area, it can be a covered open area ( like a beer garden with a large parasol)


    You in USA? Cuz in England there's a blanket ban on smoking in public places.
    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: French parliament approves ban on face veils
     Reply #179 - July 15, 2010, 08:42 PM
    SL not a long time ago more than half of the males used to smoke, so no they didn't invade anything. I am not against having smoker and nonsmoker pub-s, but i don't like the idea of banning all smoking from bars eventhough the owner might like to have smokers as costumers.I hope you can get my point.
    Quote from: FreeSoul007 on January 14, 2011, 05:00 AM
    Just look at the sun and the moon, rotating around the earth perfectly! Out of all the never ending space in the universe, the sun and moon ended up close to earth rotating around it perfectly.!!

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