Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


اضواء على الطريق ....... ...
by akay
May 11, 2024, 06:33 AM

Qur'anic studies today
by zeca
May 10, 2024, 12:51 PM

Lights on the way
by akay
May 10, 2024, 09:41 AM

New Britain
May 08, 2024, 07:28 AM

General chat & discussion...
May 08, 2024, 07:16 AM

Pro Israel or Pro Palesti...
May 07, 2024, 04:01 AM

Do humans have needed kno...
April 30, 2024, 06:51 PM

What's happened to the fo...
April 27, 2024, 08:30 AM

Do humans have needed kno...
April 20, 2024, 08:02 AM

Iran launches drones
April 13, 2024, 05:56 PM

عيد مبارك للجميع! ^_^
by akay
April 12, 2024, 12:01 PM

Eid-Al-Fitr
by akay
April 12, 2024, 08:06 AM

Theme Changer

 Topic: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka

 (Read 37974 times)
  • Previous page 1 23 4 ... 9 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #30 - July 15, 2010, 07:23 AM

    It is effectively banned in certain spaces in society.


    Yes, for secular reasons.  It's not a ban on the Burqa but a ban on ALL face coverings because criminals cover their faces when robbing a bank for example.  That's a secular requirement and does not target a specific ethnic group, therefore it is not bigotry.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #31 - July 15, 2010, 07:27 AM

    Sometimes I wonder: what's the secular need for a ban on partial or total nudity?

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #32 - July 15, 2010, 07:29 AM

    Our dress code is already restricted, because of relative moral reasons of "omg, that is totally NOT appropriate in our culture".

    So I wonder how you people can be against an arbitrary clothing ban and not another.
    Weird.

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #33 - July 15, 2010, 07:32 AM

    Sometimes I wonder: what's the secular need for a ban on partial or total nudity?


    I would say probably not.  The obsession with not being nude in public is probably an artefact of religious fundamentalism.


    Our dress code is already restricted, because of relative moral reasons of "omg, that is totally NOT appropriate in our culture".

    So I wonder how you people can be against an arbitrary clothing ban and not another.
    Weird.


    Whether or not we should keep the ban on public nudity is a separate issue.  Personally I wouldn't care if people walked around nude or not.  The question here is, is there a SECULAR NEED to ban the wearing of Burqas in ALL public places?  I think the answer is clearly "No".

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #34 - July 15, 2010, 07:35 AM

    Quote
    That's a secular requirement and does not target a specific ethnic religious group.


    A slight correction ^^^

    Look, I wasn't taking issue with what you said. I was more making a general point about why the burqa arouses the feelings that it does.

     





    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #35 - July 15, 2010, 07:42 AM

    Whether or not we should keep the ban on public nudity is a separate issue.  Personally I wouldn't care if people walked around nude or not.  The question here is, is there a SECULAR NEED to ban the wearing of Burqas in ALL public places?  I think the answer is clearly "No".

    I do not think it's a separate issue.

    Those people who are ok with banning nudity to avoid "cultural discomfort" should also be ok with banning face veils for the same very reason.
    For some secular people avoiding such cultural discomfort and tension is more important than the freedom of dressing as you like.
    For some it's the other way around.

    It depends on which one is your priority.

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #36 - July 15, 2010, 07:43 AM

    A slight correction ^^^


    I think people who follow specific religions are considered to be part of ethnic groups as they share a subculture.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #37 - July 15, 2010, 07:46 AM

    The obsession with not being nude in public is probably an artefact of religious fundamentalism.


    Whether or not we should keep the ban on public nudity is a separate issue.  Personally I wouldn't care if people walked around nude or not.


    What about young children walking down the street seeing nude people walking down the street? Shouldn't that be avoided? If so, why?

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #38 - July 15, 2010, 07:48 AM

    I do not think it's a separate issue.


    It is.  The issue isn't "Do we need more or less nudity?" the issue is "Should people be allowed to hide their faces?"

    This line of argument reminds me of Muslim apologetics saying "Why don't you argue against Christianity?".  We don't have only 2 options

    1: Ban Burqas
    2: Allow full nudity

    Therefore nudity is not relevant to whether or not we need to ban the Burqa.



    Those people who are ok with banning nudity to avoid "cultural discomfort" should also be ok with banning face veils for the same very reason.


    Yes, I agree, otherwise they are hypocrites.  However I am not one of them, I am happy for people to go out in the buff.


    What about young children walking down the street seeing nude people walking down the street? Shouldn't that be avoided? If so, why?


    I have no problems with my children seeing other people naked.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #39 - July 15, 2010, 07:57 AM

    I think people who follow specific religions are considered to be part of ethnic groups as they share a subculture.


    Maybe, but the operative issue here is religious precept and belief. I understand that these things are intertwined, but it is complex, and the marker is made in the name of religion.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #40 - July 15, 2010, 08:04 AM

    Just to be clear, here are my thoughts regarding nudity/burqas.  It's all about zeitgeists.  

    Now I personally have no objection to nudity laws being abolished.  However that does not mean I would allow my children to go outside naked.  This is because the current zeitgeist is that it is "weird" to go out naked, therefore most people would not go outside naked.  I don't feel that being naked in public is a problem, but I do think that being the only person outside naked would put my children at risk.  It would probably take many generations for the zeitgeist to change so that most people went out naked.

    At the moment the zeitgeist in the UK regarding burqas is that it is okay to choose whether you wear one or not.  The question is, do we NEED to influence the zeitgeist either towards banning the burqa or making it mandatory?  I think the answer is "No".  I personally would like to see the zeitgeist lean towards the individual's free choice.  Seeing as it is currently at neither of these two extremes I think it is important not to try to influence it towards one extreme or the other.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #41 - July 15, 2010, 08:08 AM

    It is.  The issue isn't "Do we need more or less nudity?" the issue is "Should people be allowed to hide their faces?"

    This line of argument reminds me of Muslim apologetics saying "Why don't you argue against Christianity?".  We don't have only 2 options

    1: Ban Burqas
    2: Allow full nudity

    Therefore nudity is not relevant to whether or not we need to ban the Burqa.

    Are you claiming there is no relevant common denominator between "should people be allowed to hide their (something)" and "should people be allowed to show their (something)"?

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #42 - July 15, 2010, 08:11 AM

    Just to be clear, here are my thoughts regarding nudity/burqas.  It's all about zeitgeists.  

    Now I personally have no objection to nudity laws being abolished.  However that does not mean I would allow my children to go outside naked.  This is because the current zeitgeist is that it is "weird" to go out naked, therefore most people would not go outside naked.  I don't feel that being naked in public is a problem, but I do think that being the only person outside naked would put my children at risk.  It would probably take many generations for the zeitgeist to change so that most people went out naked.

    At the moment the zeitgeist in the UK regarding burqas is that it is okay to choose whether you wear one or not.  The question is, do we NEED to influence the zeitgeist either towards banning the burqa or making it mandatory?  I think the answer is "No".  I personally would like to see the zeitgeist lean towards the individual's free choice.  Seeing as it is currently at neither of these two extremes I think it is important not to try to influence it towards one extreme or the other.

    Then, there IS some relevance with nudity.
    Both issues belong to the same superset of issues.

    :S

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #43 - July 15, 2010, 08:15 AM

    Then, there IS some relevance with nudity.
    Both issues belong to the same superset of issues.


    Sure they are related issues, they are both related to what should or should not be covered in order to be "decent".

    But the discussion isn't whether banning the burqa is the same or not as banning nudity (it is the same issue), the issue is whether or not we should influence ban/mandatory burqa use through law.  So they are related, but nudity isn't relevant to this discussion.

    Legalising nudity would now be difficult to do, is that really what we want in a free society for Burqas?  In other countries it is so common that people wear burqas that to go out without one is considered to be very strange and possibly indecent.  Banning the burqa is no different from making it mandatory.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #44 - July 15, 2010, 08:23 AM

    Sure they are related issues, they are both related to what should or should not be covered in order to be "decent".

    But the discussion isn't whether banning the burqa is the same or not as banning nudity (it is the same issue), the issue is whether or not we should influence ban/mandatory burqa use through law.  So they are related, but nudity isn't relevant to this discussion.

    Legalising nudity would now be difficult to do, is that really what we want in a free society for Burqas?  In other countries it is so common that people wear burqas that to go out without one is considered to be very strange and possibly indecent.  Banning the burqa is no different from making it mandatory.

    I still think it's relevant to this discussion because, as far as I noticed, most people in these forums who are totally against burqa bans are also pro nudity bans.

    So in their minds the real reason is not "freedom of dressing as I like" but something else that I still cannot define.

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #45 - July 15, 2010, 08:32 AM

    Considering the context of the discussion I inferred that you were in support of banning due to your own discomfort.  So is your position that you personally feel uncomfortable talking to them but would not support a ban?


    In principle, no I do not support banning anything, not even the burqas..  But I will admit that personally I will not be sorry to see the burqa banned either.

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #46 - July 15, 2010, 08:33 AM

    He did an even better job over here...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bypLwI5AQvY

    Meeee-oooowwww.  What a bitch!

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #47 - July 15, 2010, 08:43 AM

    So in their minds the real reason is not "freedom of dressing as I like" but something else that I still cannot define.


    They are actually for the freedom of dressing how you wish, however due to the heavy influence of the social zeitgeist against nudity they cannot bring themselves to agree that nudity should be allowed too.  It's a religious hang-up from the past, there are a lot of them (such as homophobia) that people don't realise originated in religion.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #48 - July 15, 2010, 09:22 AM

    I think anyone who wants it banned is a bigot, unless they can prove to me there is a secular need for such a ban.


    Though I've mentioned a slight hesitancy over the full ban, but am pretty much in agreement of a partial ban in public areas (e.g. schools), these would be my reasons:

    - the negative effect on social cohesion, tolerance, integration and assimilation
    - subjugation/oppression of women, the promotion of such by Mullahs and it's symbolism
    - security e.g. man to tries to escape wearing a burka
    - evidence that projected future social divisions are brewing: 74% of 16-24-year-olds would prefer Muslim women to choose to wear the veil, compared to 28% of 55+ year olds.
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #49 - July 15, 2010, 09:29 AM

    - the negative effect on social cohesion, tolerance, integration and assimilation


    If people really have the social affairs of these women at heart they should talk to them, not dictate to them.


    - subjugation/oppression of women, the promotion of such by Mullahs and it's symbolism


    The solution to that problem is education.  Education that there are different views on whether or not it is mandatory.  Educate them that if they wish to not wear them then they have the full support of their secular government.




    In that case we need to ban scarves, hats, pretend moustaches, and anything else which could possibly make someone look different.  I'm sorry, but that's a really weak argument.




    That again is down to education.  One of the problems I think is that more and more children are being sent to Islamic schools.  In my opinion ALL schools should be secular.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #50 - July 15, 2010, 09:36 AM

    That again is down to education.  One of the problems I think is that more and more children are being sent to Islamic schools.  In my opinion ALL schools should be secular.


    And what are you going to do about that?  You state that people should be allowed to wear what they want, fair enough.. but then they would also get the right to send their kids to whatever school to whatever school they want right?  You can't just choose which rights they may have and not have. 

    So, how are you going to make the education reach everybody?

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #51 - July 15, 2010, 09:42 AM

    And what are you going to do about that?  You state that people should be allowed to wear what they want, fair enough.. but then they would also get the right to send their kids to whatever school to whatever school they want right?  You can't just choose which rights they may have and not have.  

    So, how are you going to make the education reach everybody?


    Hang on, why can't I say that all children must go to secular schools?  I didn't say that everyone can do anything they like, what I said is that there is no secular need to ban burqas.

    When it comes to the education of children there are two reasons which support my view that non-secular schools should be banned.

    1: Everyone should have the human right to be taught information which to our best ability is known to be true.  In the case where schools have a religious agenda those children are being taught information which we know to be clearly inaccurate (Adam/Eve) or have no evidence to support it (intelligent design.)

    2: Ensuring that children are educated in a secular way at school allows them to interact with people who do not share their (parents') religious convictions.  This helps with social cohesion and tolerance.  It is in the interests of secular society not to allow people to isolate their children from the rest of society.

    When I was a child my mom was a blatant racist.  Whenever someone on the news was killed, if they were black she'd say "Good!".  If a black man was convicted of mugging/rape etc she'd say "No wonder, black bastard".  It would therefore not be surprising to read that I grew up repeating lots of racist things parrot fashion, however in my heart those things were never true; and that is simply because the people who I reported to hate were in fact my best friends at my ethnically mixed school.


    Just because I think people should be free to wear what they like doesn't mean that I think society should be one massive anarchistic free for all!

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #52 - July 15, 2010, 09:56 AM

    Hang on, why can't I say that all children must go to secular schools?  I didn't say that everyone can do anything they like, what I said is that there is no secular need to ban burqas.


    Secular reasons?  You have the obvious security risks for one  (just like balaclavas and fake mustaches and the lot) , the barrier it imposes when it comes to communication is another.  Health wise it also not advisable to wear one for a long time as it will bring about symptoms caused by lack of vitamin D.

      And then if you want to take it further it is also a hate symbol given the beliefs of those who wear them, but I would not ban hate symbols, so that does not matter to me.



    1: Everyone should have the human right to be taught information which to our best ability is known to be true.  In the case where schools have a religious agenda those children are being taught information which we know to be clearly inaccurate (Adam/Eve) or have no evidence to support it (intelligent design.)


    What is known to be true is relative.  If you talk to many Muslims, they will tell you that Adam and Eve are known to be true and that evolution has not been proved.  It is within their human rights to decide what sounds true to them and what doesn't right?

    2: Ensuring that children are educated in a secular way at school allows them to interact with people who do not share their (parents') religious convictions.  This helps with social cohesion and tolerance.  It is in the interests of secular society not to allow people to isolate their children from the rest of society.


    True but you are not going to convince the parents.  And then to bring that about you would need state intervention and start forcing people to send their children to secular schools which needless to say would have disastrous consequences and would back fire.

    When I was a child my mom was a blatant racist.  Whenever someone on the news was killed, if they were black she'd say "Good!".  If a black man was convicted of mugging/rape etc she'd say "No wonder, black bastard".  It would therefore not be surprising to read that I grew up repeating lots of racist things parrot fashion, however in my heart those things were never true; and that is simply because the people who I reported to hate were in fact my best friends at my ethnically mixed school.


    It does not always happen that way, even in an ethnically mixed setting.

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #53 - July 15, 2010, 10:06 AM

    Secular reasons?  You have the obvious security risks for one


    What security risk?  People won't blow themselves up if you can see their faces?  Explain.


    the barrier it imposes when it comes to communication is another.


    There is no spoon!


    Health wise it also not advisable to wear one for a long time as it will bring about symptoms caused by lack of vitamin D.


    I can't believe you actually wrote that!  Anyone worried about vitamin D can take tablets or sit under a sun lamp at home.  Please don't give me that old line, nobody wants to ban the burqa because they are worried about rickets!  Under that logic you'd ban smoking and alcohol too, they are much worse than vitamin D deficiency.


    And then if you want to take it further it is also a hate symbol given the beliefs of those who wear them,


    I disagree.


    What is known to be true is relative.


    I said "best of our ability".  This would mean facts based on observed reality and not what we "want" to be true. 


    If you talk to many Muslims, they will tell you that Adam and Eve are known to be true and that evolution has not been proved.  It is within their human rights to decide what sounds true to them and what doesn't right?


    Sure, but not within their human rights to teach their children fairy tales which have no corroborative evidence AND deny them facts which have lots.  In fact, I'd say it is within the child's human rights to be given access to all information, but only facts should be taught in school as facts, everything else should be clearly taught as "beliefs".



    True but you are not going to convince the parents.  And then to bring that about you would need state intervention and start forcing people to send their children to secular schools which needless to say would have disastrous consequences and would back fire.


    I wasn't going to concern myself with the logistics, simply because such a ban wouldn't take place anyway.  A ban on religious schools would certainly be a step in the right direction though.


    It does not always happen that way, even in an ethnically mixed setting.


    No, it doesn't always play out that way.  What is for certain though is that if I had not been able to mix with the very people my mother used to alienate then I would not have realised the reality until much later in life, if at all.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #54 - July 15, 2010, 10:26 AM

    What security risk?  People won't blow themselves up if you can see their faces?  Explain.


    No, it was as HighOctane stated before, criminals could use them to escape or smuggle stuff and the lot.  Again I am not saying that they should be banned because of that because criminals will find any opportunity and any way possible to carry out their 'work'..  but you wanted a secular reason and I gave it to you.  The burqa will make it easier for them

    There is no spoon!


    Many people would disagree with you.

    I can't believe you actually wrote that!  Anyone worried about vitamin D can take tablets or sit under a sun lamp at home.  Please don't give me that old line, nobody wants to ban the burqa because they are worried about rickets!  Under that logic you'd ban smoking and alcohol too, they are much worse than vitamin D deficiency.


    I'm not giving you any old line, you wanted a secular reason and I gave you one.  Why go for something artificial when it is available naturally?

    I disagree.


    Ask many of them what they think about Jews, homosexuals and apostates for instance.  If their brand of Islam is so extreme that it requires them to cover everything up, chances are that it is also quite intolerant towards the people I have mentioned

    I said "best of our ability".  This would mean facts based on observed reality and not what we "want" to be true.  


    You'd be surprised at how people observe what they want to see.  Many people see the Madonna and Jesus in very odd places don't they?  They are utterly convinced that they are miraculous sightings and 'observed reality'..  

    Sure, but not within their human rights to teach their children fairy tales which have no corroborative evidence AND deny them facts which have lots.  In fact, I'd say it is within the child's human rights to be given access to all information, but only facts should be taught in school as facts, everything else should be clearly taught as "beliefs".


    I agree with you, but again you are talking to people who think that these fairy tales are facts..  So much so that they are willing to take extreme measures to protect their version of the 'truth'..  How are you going to go about it?

    I wasn't going to concern myself with the logistics, simply because such a ban wouldn't take place anyway.  A ban on religious schools would certainly be a step in the right direction though.


    Well yes and no.  I have mixed feelings about it.  I was educated in a Catholic church school.  The headmaster and even many of my religion teachers were quite secular and open minded.  I never felt indoctrinated, although we did have to go for mass every week and for lent talks before Easter.  We were never denied facts either, in fact it was a very good and prestigious school and people of other faiths were welcomed as well.   Would a school like that have to banned as well?

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #55 - July 15, 2010, 10:48 AM

    No, it was as HighOctane stated before, criminals could use them to escape or smuggle stuff and the lot.  Again I am not saying that they should be banned because of that because criminals will find any opportunity and any way possible to carry out their 'work'..  but you wanted a secular reason and I gave it to you.  The burqa will make it easier for them


    If you don't think that your reason is a credible reason to ban something then it is merely a "secular" and not a "secular reason"


    Many people would disagree with you.


    When the barrier is perceived then there is no barrier, just the perception of a barrier; hence there is no spoon.  All you have to do is to stop believing in the barrier and you will no longer experience it.  If the person under the burqa refuses to talk to you then it is because they are an asshole, not because they are wearing a burqa.


    I'm not giving you any old line, you wanted a secular reason and I gave you one.  Why go for something artificial when it is available naturally?


    So you think that burqas should be banned to help prevent an mass deficiency of vitamin D?  No you don't, so therefore you did not give me a secular reason to ban the burqa.  If you propose something as a reason then you must expect me to respond to is as though you were presenting it as a reason.

    You'd be surprised at how people observe what they want to see.  Many people see the Madonna and Jesus in very odd places don't they?  They are utterly convinced that they are miraculous sightings and 'observed reality'..  


    But not objective reality.


    I agree with you, but again you are talking to people who think that these fairy tales are facts..  So much so that they are willing to take extreme measures to protect their version of the 'truth'..  How are you going to go about it?


    Again the word "objective" answers the problem.  We don't need to convince the parents that what we are doing is right, we just need to do the right thing.  It is a small minority who insist on segregation.



    Well yes and no.  I have mixed feelings about it.  I was educated in a Catholic church school.  The headmaster and even many of my religion teachers were quite secular and open minded.  I never felt indoctrinated, although we did have to go for mass every week and for lent talks before Easter.


    Whether it worked on you or not that was indoctrination.


    We were never denied facts either, in fact it was a very good and prestigious school and people of other faiths were welcomed as well.   Would a school like that have to banned as well?


    Yes.  Religion within education is fine, education within religion is a big mistake.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #56 - July 15, 2010, 10:55 AM

    There is a study I found somewhere a while ago stating those countries with burka usage as a common thing, have higher birth defect rates than those who do not. It is interesting to note, that males tend to have a couple of tones darker skin than females generally.
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #57 - July 15, 2010, 10:58 AM

    There is a study I found somewhere a while ago stating those countries with burka usage as a common thing, have higher birth defect rates than those who do not. It is interesting to note, that males tend to have a couple of tones darker skin than females generally.


    2 points on that subject

    1: Corroboration alone does not qualify as cause and effect.  People who live near the poles go for long periods without sunlight too but don't wear Burqas.
    2: People can take vitamins and use sun lamps indoors, so a burqa is not an insurmountable barrier between the wearer and vitamin D.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #58 - July 15, 2010, 11:05 AM

    http://tobefree.wordpress.com/2007/11/30/burkas-cause-major-vitamin-d-deficiency-hence-breast-cancer/
    http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSHAR56610220070625
    http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/85/6/1565
  • Re: Conservative MP Philip Hollobone's bid to ban the burka
     Reply #59 - July 15, 2010, 11:08 AM

    2 points on that subject

    1: Corroboration alone does not qualify as cause and effect.  People who live near the poles go for long periods without sunlight too but don't wear Burqas.
    2: People can take vitamins and use sun lamps indoors, so a burqa is not an insurmountable barrier between the wearer and vitamin D.


    I know, its just that those nr the poles have lighter shaded skin tones, so therefore can get there Vitamin D that way, Burka wearers are generally darker in skin tone. Just as long as treatment is not available on the NHS for Vit. D deficiency I'm okay with it, but it is not healthy IMO.
  • Previous page 1 23 4 ... 9 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »