In order to avoid hijacking DigDug's thread, I started this one for my discussion with Debunker.
^^^ Here's an ex-Muslim who's NEVER interested in discussing Islam
Damn right. I usually skip most religious debates. I'm not that knowledgeable in Quran, Hadith....etc. And I don't want to waste time on debates.
Long before I joined this forum, I have made a list of the problems I have with Islam and the concept of God in general. I use them whenever I debate someone. Until someone answers them all, I won't waste any time on religion. Feel free to start a new thread and answer my questions. I would love that indeed. It's been a while since I discussed religion with anybody.
- Evolution. God didn't create us homo sapiens in our current form. Therefore the Quran is false.
- The concept of hell. Infinite punishment for finite offenses. How is that fair?
- Apostates go to hell. I didn't chose to be Muslim. Why should I be punished?
- Did Allah send prophets to the Aztecs? what about ancient China? what about anywhere outside the Middle East? and if he did, why is it never mentioned in the Quran or the Hadith?
- Why was Mohammed the last prophet? why not keep sending prophets? what's the harm? it's been 1500 years, why does God make it so hard to believe in him?
- Why doesn't Allah show us some miracles? seriously what's he waiting for?
- Why doesn't he just appear and talk to us directly without prophets and angels acting as intermediates?
- Why does Allah want to test us? why did he create us?
- Why hasn't there been any case of an amputated limb regenerating in recorded history?
- Why is music Haram? Why is chess Haram?
- Why is fucking Haram? (specially when we have contraceptives)
- Why is kissing, oral sex, or even hugging the opposite sex haram?
- Why does Allah need us to do complicated rituals? can't he just measure the faith in our hearts? why does he need me to kneel and say a particular verse? why the complicated form of worship?
- Why are there congenital deformities? didn't Allah say is the Quran "we created you in the best form"?
- Why are their famines? Why are there natural disasters?
- Why does Allah allow Satan to exist?
- Why does the husband have authority over the wife? why not the other way around?
- Why is a woman's testimony equal to half of a man's?
- Now that we have DNA parental identification, why can't women practice polygamy like men?
- Muhammed fucked a 9-year old when he was in his 50s
- Muhammed had sex with a war slave
- Mohammed's military conquests
- Omniscience is logically impossible. How can anyone/anything know *everything* including the future and yet be able to *decide*?
Therefore even if a God existed, he is not omniscient. And since the Quran says that Allah is عالم كل شيء many times, the Quran is false.
- Which brings me to predestination. This is the first question that made me doubt the existence of any god.
If Allah is omniscient, then that means he knows whether I'll go to Hell or Heaven. Think about it, he knows where everyone of us will end up. Let's say there's someone who will be born, in 152 years 248 days and 57 minutes from now. God, at this very moment as I'm typing knows about that. In fact he knows how long this person will live, what s/he will do every second of his/her life, when s/he will die, and whether s/he will go to Hell or Heaven. IOW, God has already in a way "determined" this person's deeds and destiny and the person in question CANNOT in any logical way alter God's plan. Therefore either we don't have a choice or God is not omniscient.
I discussed more than half of your questions here and at FFI, but one question, in particulat caught my attention:
Why hasn't there been any case of an amputated limb regenerating in recorded history?
what does that have to do with belief/disbelief in God/Islam?
Because it means there is no interfering God and that Duaa is a farce.
That's interesting! So what else do you expect Dua should be capable of achieving? Bringing back the dead? Splitting seas? Breaking the Laws of nature?
Why not? if there really is an omnipotent, caring, interfering god, then why shouldn't I expect him to break the laws of nature every now and then and give us a miracle?
After all he is omnipotent and above the laws of nature and he will bring us to life in the judgment day from the graves after our bodies has decomposed. So, why doesn't he do it now? just once? is it too much am I asking for?
Ok, so you can cross out that question about limb regrowing, from your list, since you already have a question about miracles there.
Anyway, the Quran does address the question of miracles and does address the question of a UNIVERSAL miracle that everyone can see... I'll look up the verses and post them here.
Oh well, I don't want to start a big discussion, besides, this thread is likely going cold now (I don't think DD or others would want to add anything).
Similar questions were asked by the ancients before: 17:93; 4:153; 2:118.
In fact, God could have sent a sign powerful enough that it would force humanity to believe.
It may be that thou tormentest thyself because they believe not.
If (such) were Our Will, We could send down to them from the sky a Sign, to which they would bend their necks in humility.
But then of course that goes against the original plan (giving man the *ability* to choose).
As for *local* miracles, the Quran says that people of ancient times dismissed them as magic (17:59; 6:7; too many to list here), and so would Meccans if Muhammed performed miracles... those who want to believe don't need miracles. Islam is the last message from God and without miracles. Early Muslims didn't need miracles to believe, and many ancients didn't believe despite miracles.
EDITED to add verse numbers/correct verse numbers.
That's not an answer. I don't believe in the Quran so there's not point quoting verses from it. I want a laudable explanation as to why God won't show us any miracles.
If you would like to continue this discussion, I strongly suggest starting a new thread.
actually, I want to highjack this thread...
so what kind of miracles do you want? local ones or universal ones everyone can see? Powerful enough so that you have no choice but to believe?