Debunker are you an apostate?

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- Aziz
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Re: Debunker are you an apostate?
Reply #120 - June 27, 2010, 12:03 PM

And the Mormons?

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Re: Debunker are you an apostate?
Reply #121 - June 27, 2010, 12:19 PM

False prophets are not part of Islam.

And, I was under the impression Debunker and Abuyunus believe in the message of the Quran right?

Just to clarify btw I am a sunni Muslim.
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Re: Debunker are you an apostate?
Reply #122 - June 27, 2010, 12:22 PM

OK because I thought you were going for the everybody else that is not a muslim but also believes in Allah and the Prophets are muslims. Which in effect means everybody who is a muslim.
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Re: Debunker are you an apostate?
Reply #123 - June 27, 2010, 12:24 PM

Uhhh... what counts as a 'false' prophet?
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Re: Debunker are you an apostate?
Reply #124 - June 27, 2010, 12:26 PM

False prophets? That appears to be debatable. Do you know that Ahmadis try to argue, that the Qur'an actually doesn't say that Muhammad was the seal of the prophets? And if I remember right, they do that by twisting the meaning of the Arabic words. That's pretty much what some modernist apologists do (in their embarrassment), when they insist that daraba in 4:34 means to "leave them" or similar nonsense.

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Re: Debunker are you an apostate?
Reply #125 - June 27, 2010, 12:26 PM

*Damn* I was being vague again -_-

Well a Muslim has to have the six articles of faith,

Belief in One God,
Belief in prophets,
Belief in angels,
Belief in Quran,
Belief in afterlife,
Belief in Qadha and Qadr
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Re: Debunker are you an apostate?
Reply #126 - June 27, 2010, 12:31 PM

Quote from: wizzie on June 27, 2010, 12:26 PM
*Damn* I was being vague again -_-

Well a Muslim has to have the six articles of faith,

Belief in One God,
Belief in prophets,
Belief in angels,
Belief in Quran,
Belief in afterlife,
Belief in Qadha and Qadr

these are only the pillars of iman. there are other things that come into play.

If i believe all 6 of those but believe jesus was the son of god am i a muslim?

just to clarify

you need to have belief that in all of the texts revealed by allah (quran, tawrah, injeel, zaboor)

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Re: Debunker are you an apostate?
Reply #127 - June 27, 2010, 01:06 PM

I am perfectly aware of that. I just didn't feel the need to elaborate further.

And if you believe jesus was son of god, of course you would not be muslim.
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Re: Debunker are you an apostate?
Reply #128 - June 27, 2010, 01:13 PM

But, but I love baby jebus.

It's good that I'm an atheist I can choose to be a beardless wahabi that loves baby jebus.
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Re: Debunker are you an apostate?
Reply #129 - June 27, 2010, 01:20 PM

"Jesus loves me. I only like him as a friend. It's kinda awkward. What should I do?"

True story on the interwebs.
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Re: Debunker are you an apostate?
Reply #130 - June 27, 2010, 01:27 PM

I think on this forum I am the one Muslim who only talks about religion occasionally (well of course outside this forum I've talked about religion a lot) and who debates the least.

BD: Brother, grow back your beard. Haram.
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Re: Debunker are you an apostate?
Reply #131 - June 27, 2010, 01:29 PM

Quote from: wizzie on June 27, 2010, 01:06 PM
I am perfectly aware of that. I just didn't feel the need to elaborate further.

And if you believe jesus was son of god, of course you would not be muslim.

thats what blackdog was saying in regards to those bahai guys belief in a prophet after muhammad negating their islam

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Re: Debunker are you an apostate?
Reply #132 - June 27, 2010, 08:02 PM

Okay, well I do not see any person who believes there was a prophet after Muhammad (saw) as a Muslim.
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Re: Debunker are you an apostate?
Reply #133 - June 27, 2010, 08:10 PM

So Ahmadis are not Muslims?

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Re: Debunker are you an apostate?
Reply #134 - June 27, 2010, 09:43 PM

Pakistan requires a Muslim citizen who applies for a passport to subscribe to the following declaration:

Quote
1.I am a Muslim and believe in the absolute and unqualified finality of the Prophethood of Muhammad the last of the Prophets.
2.I do not recognize any one who claims to be a prophet in any sense of the word or any description whatsoever, after Prophet Muhammad or recognize such a claimant as a prophet or a religious reformer as Muslim.
3.I consider Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani to be an impostor prophet and an infidel and also consider his followers whether belonging to the Lahori, Qadiani or Mirzai groups, to be non-Muslims.

The official reason given is that Ahamadis are not considered Muslims by theSaudi who will not allow then to do hajj or even ummah.

This is a good question though: Ahmadis say they are Muslims, but many other Muslims say they are not. So who is right? In fact, there is no overall authority that can say who is and who is not a Muslim. Therefore, I guess,if debunker wants to call himself a Muslim, he must be a Muslim of sorts, but the label means very little. It would be better to say that debunker is,well, debunker! Do we really need to give him a label in order to understand him? If yes,is one label enough?
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Re: Debunker are you an apostate?
Reply #135 - June 27, 2010, 10:26 PM

What about non-Ahmadi and non-Muslim Pakistanis? do they have to subscribe to this declaration?
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Re: Debunker are you an apostate?
Reply #136 - June 28, 2010, 03:09 AM

Quote
What about non-Ahmadi and non-Muslim Pakistanis? do they have to subscribe to this declaration?

If you say on your passport application that you are a Muslim,you have to sign it. If you say you are Christian,Hindu or Sikh, then you do not have to sign it,and your religion is recorded accordingly. Ifyou don'tgivea religion or say you are an atheist,your passport application is refused.

Ahmadis are not recognised as areligion nor as Muslims,so in order toget a passport, they essentially have to lie, or bribe someone.
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Re: Debunker are you an apostate?
Reply #137 - June 28, 2010, 03:21 AM

Thanks for the info. That's fucked-up.
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