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 Topic: My intro thread - ex muslim convert

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  • Re: My intro thread - ex muslim convert
     Reply #30 - June 20, 2010, 06:12 PM
    Quote from: kero-zen on June 20, 2010, 05:52 PM
    btw i'am asking myself why european people who feel lost convert to islam, i think boudhist is most appropriate to a saint lifestyle and they views are more compatible with the modern world, myself if i was in that situation and could made the choice i would convert to bouddhism without esitate, but anyway i'am not really looking to that.

    More Europeans convert to Buddhism (though some in a superficial way only) than to Islam. Iit is easy to take certain elements of it up (meditation/philosophy) and leave stuff out if you want.   It's harder to tell because it doesn't often "show" as a religion.
  • Re: My intro thread - ex muslim convert
     Reply #31 - June 20, 2010, 06:55 PM
    Quote from: DigDug on June 20, 2010, 06:08 PM
    To be fair though I only read about Islam through the internet and I went to the masjid out of my own free will I don't feel like anyone made me convert. I do feel that I was lied to by the Muslims who put info online.

    I really like your unbiased, honest opinions of your whole experience.  There is no need to lie and go over the top, like they do on other forums like FFI.
    Intellectual honesty is paramount. Afro

    Quote
    One thing about salafi dawah is they are true to themselves and the religion . They will clearly state the Islamic opinion ect...

    But I think everyone else is a liar and a spin doctor (i.e zakir naik, hamza yusuf ect..) and they don't present a fair and honest version of Islam to the people.

    True to a large extent.  Although, I think the radical Salafis are definitely biased when interpreting Hadith, to suit their agenda.  It is partly subconscious because of confirmation bias, which all humans are prone to.  But some of them are so dogmatic, that they refuse to consider any other opinion other than their own, so they remain in their state.
    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: My intro thread - ex muslim convert
     Reply #32 - June 20, 2010, 06:56 PM
    Quote from: DigDug on June 20, 2010, 06:08 PM
    haha do it. It can be like an undercover thing. It's really fun you get to act all arrogant and brand 95% of Muslims to be "innovaters" including other salafis


    Haha, there's a mosque literally round the corner from where I live, maybe I'll pay them a visit  Wink

    Really though, I doubt I could ever be a genuine Salafi. I simply lack the necessary thoughtless self-assertiveness. Salafism is a ghastly interpretation of an already not so pleasant religion.

    Quote from: DigDug on June 20, 2010, 06:08 PM
    One thing about salafi dawah is they are true to themselves and the religion. They will clearly state the Islamic opinion ect...

    But I think everyone else is a liar and a spin doctor (i.e zakir naik, hamza yusuf ect..) and they don't present a fair and honest version of Islam to the people.


    That's probably the one thing that I like about Salafis. Which, incidentally, means I like them more than the apologetic bullshite artist so-called 'moderates' who will outright lie about what Islam says on any matter just to keep a good public relations image.

    I mean, compare what apologists and Salafis will say about something like 9:29. Apologists will say that it was just a defensive injunction for a limited time and that's how orthodox Islamic interpreters see it and that's it. Whereas Salafis will come right out and say 'Yeah, it's about subjugating Jews and Christians and other non-Muslims en masse and it's valid until the day of Judgement and if you don't like it then fuck you!'
  • Re: My intro thread - ex muslim convert
     Reply #33 - June 20, 2010, 07:47 PM
    Quote from: DigDug on June 20, 2010, 03:28 PM


    (Clicky for piccy!)


    Interesting choice of photo.  So tell us how you found us and whereabouts you are based.. Also do you know any ex-muslims in real life?
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: My intro thread - ex muslim convert
     Reply #34 - June 20, 2010, 10:35 PM
    Quote from: DigDug on June 20, 2010, 03:28 PM
    Just to give you guys an idea of where I'm coming from during high school and in my early 20's I was in trouble alot. Looking back on things I was a total wankster but at the time I thought I was fucking tony montana.

    we have very similar backgrounds it seems!

    Quote
    The stuff I did got me fast cash that allowed me to live the lifestyle I wanted. I drank alot, partied and recreationaly did drugs. However, doing drugs turned into a big problem and I eventually told myself I had to stop everything.

    was the case for me as well mate!

    Quote
    This was probably the lowest I had been in my life, I was really depressed and when I went to the masjid I was 5"11 125lbs I must have looked like a holocaust survivor. I was at the point in my life where I was looking for something to believe in and was very open to whatever they would tell me.

    im really recognising meself in all of this, well except for the holocaust part.

    Quote
    The people there were mostly Arab (alot of Saudis working in the country, libyans too) and Somalis.

    a LOT of somalis in the mosque in my town actually. all of them salafi!

    Quote
    We kinda isolated ourselves from the world around us and followed sunnah and basically pretended we were living in 7th century Arabia. I didn't watch movies, TV, or music. I didn't even read the newspaper.

    wow im amazed how far you took it! this salafi stuff is why i apostated. i remember taking all my family pictures down from the walls of my room. when my mom saw this, it made her cry.. i feel so fucking sad i made her cry like that just because my crazy ass was following some stupid religion.
    i tried quitting music as well, but something in my heart told me that if there is a god this is not how he intended for us to live!
    it was like i had been mentaly raped and spitted at by islam, and tears went down my cheeks and i decided i had have enough of this shit.
    anyway im really happy to hear that you got out of it as well! thanks DigDug for your story.

  • Re: My intro thread - ex muslim convert
     Reply #35 - June 20, 2010, 10:51 PM
    Some journey you had there DigDug. Thanks for sharing  Afro
  • Re: My intro thread - ex muslim convert
     Reply #36 - June 20, 2010, 11:14 PM
    Quote from: atheist.pk on June 20, 2010, 04:01 PM
    So the Salafi side of Islam really appeals to many converts. That's quite startling. From being people with a clear conscience and thought (as far as I can tell) to become totally ingrained in puritanical glorification of 7th century Arabia....seems strange and disturbing how many converts get involved in this shit.

    I guess its to do with many of them wanting to become 'the best of Muslims' so much that they happily embrace the wtf-ism of Salafism and Wahhabism to be as 'original' as possible to impress their fellow Muslim peers for their devotion and piety.

    Shuddering thought for me as I come from a staunch Shia background....

    keep in mind the connection with him being a former drug user/criminal.
    often people with this background tend to do everything the extreme way.
    same thing with islam, its simply going all the way right away!
  • Re: My intro thread - ex muslim convert
     Reply #37 - June 20, 2010, 11:18 PM
    Quote from: ateapotist on June 20, 2010, 06:55 PM
    I really like your unbiased, honest opinions of your whole experience.  There is no need to lie and go over the top, like they do on other forums like FFI.


    Yea I'm not on a crusade against Islam. It actually helped me with alot of things (quit smoking all kinds of stuff) I just want it to be presented in a fair light so people can make whatever choice they want whether they love it or hate it.

    Whats FFI btw?

    Quote
    True to a large extent.  Although, I think the radical Salafis are definitely biased when interpreting Hadith, to suit their agenda.  It is partly subconscious because of confirmation bias, which all humans are prone to.  But some of them are so dogmatic, that they refuse to consider any other opinion other than their own, so they remain in their state.


    I dont mean like "salafi" views but just simple shit that every Muslim should have the same belief about. For example, if you asked a salafi how old Aisha was when he consumated the marriage they will tell you straight up. Others try and beat around the bush or put some weird spin on it or just outright lie.

    Quote from: Zebedee on June 20, 2010, 06:56 PM
    That's probably the one thing that I like about Salafis. Which, incidentally, means I like them more than the apologetic bullshite artist so-called 'moderates' who will outright lie about what Islam says on any matter just to keep a good public relations image.

    I mean, compare what apologists and Salafis will say about something like 9:29. Apologists will say that it was just a defensive injunction for a limited time and that's how orthodox Islamic interpreters see it and that's it. Whereas Salafis will come right out and say 'Yeah, it's about subjugating Jews and Christians and other non-Muslims en masse and it's valid until the day of Judgement and if you don't like it then fuck you!'


    Exactly right.

    Muslims have the right to spread their religion (through words) and they have the freedom to believe whatever they want as long as they are being truthful.

    Just like we have the freedom to say Islam sucks and its a false religion as long as we are truthful. We can't say "Islam sucks because Muhammad was a werewolf who raped his own mother". That statement is equivalent to the ridiculousness of what the apologists say about Islam.

    Quote from: IsLame on June 20, 2010, 07:47 PM
    Interesting choice of photo.  So tell us how you found us and whereabouts you are based.. Also do you know any ex-muslims in real life?


    I originally found this site a little while back through a google search on converts leaving Islam. There was a thread that had alot of good stuff in it. I'm in Canada and I don't know any ex-muslims in real life.
    I'm an asshat.
  • Re: My intro thread - ex muslim convert
     Reply #38 - June 20, 2010, 11:22 PM
    Quote
    I originally found this site a little while back through a google search on converts leaving Islam. There was a thread that had alot of good stuff in it. I'm in Canada and I don't know any ex-muslims in real life.


    CoolCanadian is a member of this forum, also an ex-convert living in Canada.
  • Re: My intro thread - ex muslim convert
     Reply #39 - June 20, 2010, 11:32 PM
    Quote from: Morpheus on June 20, 2010, 10:35 PM
    im really recognising meself in all of this, well except for the holocaust part.


    I had a Diego Maradona sized coke problem haha.

    Quote
    a LOT of somalis in the mosque in my town actually. all of them salafi!


    Somalis are cool people. Where are you from?

    Quote
    wow im amazed how far you took it! this salafi stuff is why i apostated. i remember taking all my family pictures down from the walls of my room. when my mom saw this, it made her cry.. i feel so fucking sad i made her cry like that just because my crazy ass was following some stupid religion.
    i tried quitting music as well, but something in my heart told me that if there is a god this is not how he intended for us to live!
    it was like i had been mentaly raped and spitted at by islam, and tears went down my cheeks and i decided i had have enough of this shit.
    anyway im really happy to hear that you got out of it as well! thanks DigDug for your story.


    I really had no problem with the whole salafi thing. I found alot of things to be immoral in Islam but I told myself that morals are subjective and me not liking something doesn't make the religion false.

    It was actual problems with the "message" itself. Doubts preyed on my mind for quite awhile.

    I didn't leave Islam because it was hard or restrictive. I didn't leave because I didn't like the people (they were awesome). I left because I came to believe that the religion was not divinely inspired.
    I'm an asshat.
  • Re: My intro thread - ex muslim convert
     Reply #40 - June 20, 2010, 11:39 PM
    Quote from: DigDug on June 20, 2010, 11:18 PM
    Whats FFI btw?

    Faith Freedom International, a forum founded by Ali Sina and is dedicated for the criticism of Islam which I'm all for. The only problem is that many (not all and arguably not most) of the members there are bigoted right-wing Christians who hold extreme views on Muslims and Islam. Recently, the banned any "attacks" on Christianity. 


    BTW, what do you mean the Salafis were awesome? surely they held some nasty views that made you uncomfortable?
  • Re: My intro thread - ex muslim convert
     Reply #41 - June 20, 2010, 11:52 PM
    Quote from: Iraqi Atheist on June 20, 2010, 11:39 PM
    Faith Freedom International, a forum founded by Ali Sina and is dedicated for the criticism of Islam which I'm all for. The only problem is that many (not all and arguably not most) of the members there are bigoted right-wing Christians who hold extreme views on Muslims and Islam. Recently, the banned any "attacks" on Christianity. 


    Haha ok I'll check it out.

    Quote
    BTW, what do you mean the Salafis were awesome? surely they held some nasty views that made you uncomfortable?


    There was brotherhood and a genuine care for your fellow Muslim. Most Arabs are really generous and hospitable people and I think Salafis were even more so.

    We were there for each other and anything I needed wether it was money, a job, a place to stay ect...everyday I was invited to go and eat at someones house...we even fought each other over who got to pay when we went out for food/coffee. We didn't hesitate to do things for eachother whether it was teaching english or arabic to eachother I could go on all day.

    What kind of nasty views do you mean? I find that people tend to label all kinds of different people as "salafi" (i.e osama bin Laden is salafi ect..) im interested in hearing what you think and I would be glad to share the views I used to hold.

    I'm an asshat.
  • Re: My intro thread - ex muslim convert
     Reply #42 - June 20, 2010, 11:55 PM
    Quote
    Somalis are cool people. Where are you from?

    im sure they are! but not the ones i met though. terrorism minded. where im from? im afraid that information is classified  whistling2

    Quote
    I didn't leave Islam because it was hard or restrictive. I didn't leave because I didn't like the people (they were awesome). I left because I came to believe that the religion was not divinely inspired.

    i hear ya. how are you dealing with apostasy? when i found out it was punishable by death according to islam, i was scared shitless  wacko
  • Re: My intro thread - ex muslim convert
     Reply #43 - June 21, 2010, 12:08 AM
    Quote from: Morpheus on June 20, 2010, 11:55 PM
    i hear ya. how are you dealing with apostasy? when i found out it was punishable by death according to islam, i was scared shitless  wacko


    I honestly don't think anybody would want to kill me. Even if they did they know that this is only in an "Islamic State". And even in an Islamic state you are given 3 days to repent and become Muslim again.

    So, even if someone put a sword to my neck and asked me to repent I would for sure lie and just say I was Muslim again lol.
    I'm an asshat.
  • Re: My intro thread - ex muslim convert
     Reply #44 - June 21, 2010, 12:31 AM
    im jealous of your unworriedness! maybe converts arent as priorited as born muslims when it comes to punishment for apostasy?
  • Re: My intro thread - ex muslim convert
     Reply #45 - June 21, 2010, 04:06 AM
    Quote from: Iraqi Atheist on June 20, 2010, 11:39 PM
    Faith Freedom International, a forum founded by Ali Sina and is dedicated for the criticism of Islam which I'm all for. Recently, the banned any "attacks" on Christianity. 


    You write yourself that FFI is dedicated to criticism of Islam.

    The way I see it, it is not to protect Christianity, but that they want the forumers to focus on Islam and not clutter up the forum with long discussions of Christianity. If people want to discuss/bash Christianity they can go to a anti Christianity forum.

    At least that is the way I understand the ban.




    Quote
    The only problem is that many (not all and arguably not most) of the members there are bigoted right-wing Christians who hold extreme views on Muslims and Islam.


    Per their Religious affiliation of FFI members poll, 25% are Christians.

    Like a compass needle that points north, a man?s accusing finger always finds a woman. Always.

    Khaled Hosseini - A thousand splendid suns.
  • Re: My intro thread - ex muslim convert
     Reply #46 - June 21, 2010, 05:11 AM
    so you're a member at FFI? Do I know you from there?
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: My intro thread - ex muslim convert
     Reply #47 - June 21, 2010, 05:28 AM

    No, I think I have made one post there.

    I check it out occacionally and read a post or two, but that is about it.

    My nick is the same as here.
    Like a compass needle that points north, a man?s accusing finger always finds a woman. Always.

    Khaled Hosseini - A thousand splendid suns.
  • Re: My intro thread - ex muslim convert
     Reply #48 - June 21, 2010, 08:40 AM
    Quote from: DigDug on June 20, 2010, 11:52 PM
    There was brotherhood and a genuine care for your fellow Muslim. Most Arabs are really generous and hospitable people and I think Salafis were even more so.

    We were there for each other and anything I needed wether it was money, a job, a place to stay ect...everyday I was invited to go and eat at someones house...we even fought each other over who got to pay when we went out for food/coffee. We didn't hesitate to do things for eachother whether it was teaching english or arabic to eachother I could go on all day.

    I see what you mean.


    Quote from: DigDug on June 20, 2010, 11:52 PM
    What kind of nasty views do you mean? I find that people tend to label all kinds of different people as "salafi" (i.e osama bin Laden is salafi ect..) im interested in hearing what you think and I would be glad to share the views I used to hold.

    Like did some of them support terrorism in the name of Islam? did some of them think homosexuals should be killed? were some of them anti-Semitic? you know those kinda views...


    Quote from: Paloma on June 21, 2010, 04:06 AM
    You write yourself that FFI is dedicated to criticism of Islam.

    The way I see it, it is not to protect Christianity, but that they want the forumers to focus on Islam and not clutter up the forum with long discussions of Christianity. If people want to discuss/bash Christianity they can go to a anti Christianity forum.

    At least that is the way I understand the ban.

    You can do better than this Paloma  Wink
    CEMB is also primarily dedicated to the criticism of Islam but anyone is allowed to criticize, attack, or make fun of Christianity or any religion for that matter. And that didn't lead to long discussions about Christianity. Even if it did, what's the harm?



    Quote from: Paloma on June 21, 2010, 04:06 AM
    Per their Religious affiliation of FFI members poll, 25% are Christians.

    I did say "many" didn't I?
    You know I've registered at FFI about one week ago and I've been lurking there and reading topics. First of all, it doesn't feel like an atheist forum at all. You don't get the feeling that they want to help individual Muslims. It's all about making Islam and Muslims as bad as possible.
  • Re: My intro thread - ex muslim convert
     Reply #49 - June 21, 2010, 10:08 AM
    Quote from: Iraqi Atheist on June 21, 2010, 08:40 AM
    You can do better than this Paloma  Wink
    CEMB is also primarily dedicated to the criticism of Islam but anyone is allowed to criticize, attack, or make fun of Christianity or any religion for that matter. And that didn't lead to long discussions about Christianity. Even if it did, what's the harm?


    Well that is your opinion. To paraphrase the Koran, to you your opinion and to me mine. grin12


    Quote
    I did say "many" didn't I?
    You know I've registered at FFI about one week ago and I've been lurking there and reading topics. First of all, it doesn't feel like an atheist forum at all. You don't get the feeling that they want to help individual Muslims. It's all about making Islam and Muslims as bad as possible.


    I agree, that their primary focus seems to be to make the world see Islam for what it is- bad. I have no problem with that and I would not have thought that you did.

    With respect to making Muslims look as bad as possible, as I stated above, I hardly read FFI anymore, but if you, during your recent browsing of their forum, have come across some examples of this, could you post them here ?


    Like a compass needle that points north, a man?s accusing finger always finds a woman. Always.

    Khaled Hosseini - A thousand splendid suns.
  • Re: My intro thread - ex muslim convert
     Reply #50 - June 21, 2010, 11:06 AM
    Quote from: Paloma on June 21, 2010, 10:08 AM
    Well that is your opinion. To paraphrase the Koran, to you your opinion and to me mine. grin12


    I agree, that their primary focus seems to be to make the world see Islam muslims for what it is they are - bad. I have no problem with that and I would not have thought that you did.


    corrected
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: My intro thread - ex muslim convert
     Reply #51 - June 21, 2010, 12:56 PM
    Quote from: Iraqi Atheist on June 21, 2010, 08:40 AM
    Like did some of them support terrorism in the name of Islam? did some of them think homosexuals should be killed? were some of them anti-Semitic? you know those kinda views...


    The "group" I belonged to didn't support terrorism of any kind. We believed for jihad to exist there had to be an "amir-ul-mumineen" and that terrorists were "innovators". This went for like everybody...the taliban were innovators, hamas were innovators, al qaeda were innovators, the ikhwaan were innovators ect... even anybody who criticzed the saudi government was an innovator. Basically everyone was an innovater except for us lol.

    As far as homosexuality was concerned I grew up in a society where it wasn't a big deal and I didn't see anything wrong with it...I really didn't care what people did as long as they weren't hurting anyone. But yea, when I was a Muslim I believed that homosexuals should be killed because thats what "allah" wanted.

    I don't think this is an exclusively salafi thing but all Muslims (should) believe this. Also, I think homophobia seems ingrained in Arab culture as well. Arabs who weren't really religious seemed homophobic. It's just different beliefs I guess because an Arab guy would say some homophobic shit and then want to kiss your cheeks and walk down the street holding hands...when I said that this wasn't the custom here they thought that was strange. It's funny because after the age of like 12 if I tried to hold my own father's hand he would be like "wtf ru doing" .haha

    Regarding anti-semitism I guess you could say it existed in the form of "crazy jewish conspiracies" but I think once again it's a cultural thing because I knew Arabs who had never met a jew in their lives and I think they genuinely feared and mistrusted them. Nobody was actually trying to commit some kinda hate crime or anything though haha.
    I'm an asshat.
  • Re: My intro thread - ex muslim convert
     Reply #52 - June 21, 2010, 01:31 PM
    Quote from: Paloma on June 21, 2010, 10:08 AM
    I agree, that their primary focus seems to be to make the world see Islam for what it is- bad. I have no problem with that and I would not have thought that you did.

    I'm all for that too. However, many members at FFI blame EVERYTHING on Islam and reduce EVERYTHING to bad Islam, bad Muslims. Like when they discuss Israel it all comes down to evil anti-Semitic Muslims. They are ideologues. And on top of that slanted simplistic analysis, they draw ominous OTT conclusions


    Quote from: Paloma on June 21, 2010, 10:08 AM
    With respect to making Muslims look as bad as possible, as I stated above, I hardly read FFI anymore, but if you, during your recent browsing of their forum, have come across some examples of this, could you post them here ?

    Maybe I will. Can't be bothered now.
  • Re: My intro thread - ex muslim convert
     Reply #53 - June 21, 2010, 02:06 PM
    Quote from: DigDug on June 21, 2010, 12:56 PM
    The "group" I belonged to didn't support terrorism of any kind. We believed for jihad to exist there had to be an "amir-ul-mumineen" and that terrorists were "innovators". This went for like everybody...the taliban were innovators, hamas were innovators, al qaeda were innovators, the ikhwaan were innovators ect... even anybody who criticzed the saudi government was an innovator. Basically everyone was an innovater except for us lol.

    Interesting.


    Quote from: DigDug on June 21, 2010, 12:56 PM
    Also, I think homophobia seems ingrained in Arab culture as well. Arabs who weren't really religious seemed homophobic. It's just different beliefs I guess because an Arab guy would say some homophobic shit and then want to kiss your cheeks and walk down the street holding hands...when I said that this wasn't the custom here they thought that was strange. It's funny because after the age of like 12 if I tried to hold my own father's hand he would be like "wtf ru doing" .haha

    Yes Arabs are very homophobic. Even non-religious Arabs. Sad but true.
    BTW the kiss on the cheek is not viewed as gay because Arabs like to think that homosexuality is non-existent and pretend that no one is gay !!
    I mean if you grow up in the West, you know from TV, friends...etc that there are gay people. So when two guys kiss on the cheek you find weird and gay !
    But if you grew up in the Middle East, gays are only mentioned in the Quran. No one is willing to say s/he's gay. Homosexuality and gay rights are not discussed in the media. So when you see two guys kiss you don't think of homosexuality. You think of friendship.


    Quote from: DigDug on June 21, 2010, 12:56 PM
    Regarding anti-semitism I guess you could say it existed in the form of "crazy jewish conspiracies" but I think once again it's a cultural thing because I knew Arabs who had never met a jew in their lives and I think they genuinely feared and mistrusted them. Nobody was actually trying to commit some kinda hate crime or anything though haha.

    Yeah I agree. I know many Muslims who don't like Jews but at the same time don't HATE them.
  • Re: My intro thread - ex muslim convert
     Reply #54 - June 21, 2010, 02:56 PM
    Hey, DigDug, you need an avatar. May I suggest:
    fuck you
  • Re: My intro thread - ex muslim convert
     Reply #55 - June 21, 2010, 03:01 PM
    Grin
  • Re: My intro thread - ex muslim convert
     Reply #56 - June 21, 2010, 03:02 PM
     Huh?
  • Re: My intro thread - ex muslim convert
     Reply #57 - June 21, 2010, 03:07 PM
    It's Dig Dug, IA:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dig_Dug

    fuck you
  • Re: My intro thread - ex muslim convert
     Reply #58 - June 21, 2010, 03:08 PM
    Holy Schmidt Batman! That smurf also has a utility belt with a grapple hook.

    His grapple hook is pink though.
  • Re: My intro thread - ex muslim convert
     Reply #59 - June 21, 2010, 03:24 PM
    Quote from: Q-Man on June 21, 2010, 03:07 PM
    It's Dig Dug, IA:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dig_Dug

    Cheers.
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