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Theme Changer

 Topic: From me to you

 (Read 22451 times)
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  • Re: From me to you
     Reply #120 - June 16, 2010, 10:29 PM

    I get the feeling that in your desperation to avoid the single parenthood, you are willing to make huge concessions  on the assumption that it'll work out alright in the end.  But life does not work out that way, and you cant go on through life making mistakes without thinking about the after effects.  

    Eventually your actions will come home to roost, and you could be in an even bigger mess than what you started out with.

    This is no longer a holiday romance, but one where a childs life is involved. Think carefully about everything you do from hereonin.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: From me to you
     Reply #121 - June 16, 2010, 10:39 PM

    This is in general when we chat.  He will say things like inchallah, wallah, etc. and that Allah knows everything.  His talk of the quran is mainly if I ask him something to do with Islam and he will then say the quran tells this, or that.  I've asked him about his, what I call wayward lifestyle  according to the quran,  (his drinking, smoking, sometimes eating in the day during ramadan, not praying etc) and he says he knows he's not a good muslim right now but that he can make up for this later and Allah will be ok with this. I guess my take on this is that if he enjoys doing these things now he isn't likely to change back again.  wacko

    Just one more thing, which I don't think has been mentioned: as I have highlighted above, don't ask him too much about Islam.  He might get the impression that you are liking Islam, and that might lead him to become more religious to please you.  And that's exactly what you don't want.

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: From me to you
     Reply #122 - June 16, 2010, 10:45 PM

    Oh god,  thankyou Manat/Q-Man/Tlaloc/Hassan and to everyone else who is trying to make me see what I haven't wanted to see for so long.

    I'm scared I've left it too late - for me, my baby, for my fiance, for what I'm about to do in less than 3 weeks time.  I just feel like I want to get off the train but I don't know how to stop it.    I feel sick.  Cry

    I'm sorry but I really don't know what else to say right now except I need to go and think, and think good.  I'll be back as soon as I can get my thoughts straight.  


    Just please don't go through with something you know in your heart and mind is a huge mistake just to spare someone's feelings or to avoid messiness or shame. The messiness and guilt will pass, especially after it sinks in you did the right thing by your son. But correcting a mistake of such magnitude will be much more difficult.

    I genuinely feel bad about the situation you're in, and I can most certainly empathize with the feeling of being on a train you helped start but now feel like you can't stop. But it's not too late, just means you'll have to deal with some messy fallout. It sucks for you because even doing the right thing is still gonna suck given the situation, but you gotta do what your heart and mind tells you is right, even if it's hard as hell.

    While I can't say I've been in a position like yours now with a child involved and all, I've definitely stood at the crossroads myself and had to make really tough choices, and I've definitely felt like I was on a train I couldn't stop before. I think most, if not all of us have at some point in our lives. My mom was basically in a very similar position to you when she was 19-- pregnant by my Egyptian father who wanted to come to the US. I think we woulda both been better off had she never married him, but, at the same time at least I was raised in the US, not Egypt, and I am very grateful at least that worked out. I can't imagine how things would be had I been raised in Egypt by my dad.

    There may even be a way to back out at this point but still try to pursue a relationship with this man that will take much longer but also pose considerably fewer risks to you and your child. We're all pullin for ya.

    fuck you
  • Re: From me to you
     Reply #123 - June 16, 2010, 10:55 PM

    Hotchick, speak to your parents. they obviously had concerns straight from the start. it's never to late to stop and get off this runaway train. At least you've getting all the facts know instead of looking at this though rose tintied glasses.

    If you ask me to define anything i will slap you with my pimp hand and make you cry like a biatch.

    Nick Naylor: "I didn't have to. I proved that you're wrong, and if you're wrong I'm right."~ Thank you for Smoking

    Perspective
  • Re: From me to you
     Reply #124 - June 16, 2010, 11:03 PM

    Just please don't go through with something you know in your heart and mind is a huge mistake just to spare someone's feelings or to avoid messiness or shame. The messiness and guilt will pass, especially after it sinks in you did the right thing by your son. But correcting a mistake of such magnitude will be much more difficult.

    I genuinely feel bad about the situation you're in, and I can most certainly empathize with the feeling of being on a train you helped start but now feel like you can't stop. But it's not too late, just means you'll have to deal with some messy fallout. It sucks for you because even doing the right thing is still gonna suck given the situation, but you gotta do what your heart and mind tells you is right, even if it's hard as hell.

    While I can't say I've been in a position like yours now with a child involved and all, I've definitely stood at the crossroads myself and had to make really tough choices, and I've definitely felt like I was on a train I couldn't stop before. I think most, if not all of us have at some point in our lives. My mom was basically in a very similar position to you when she was 19-- pregnant by my Egyptian father who wanted to come to the US. I think we woulda both been better off had she never married him, but, at the same time at least I was raised in the US, not Egypt, and I am very grateful at least that worked out. I can't imagine how things would be had I been raised in Egypt by my dad.

    There may even be a way to back out at this point but still try to pursue a relationship with this man that will take much longer but also pose considerably fewer risks to you and your child. We're all pullin for ya.

    +1000

    I was stuck between a rock and a hard place, when I was a closet atheist and coming under increasing pressure to get married.  Eventually, I bit the bullet and came out about my apostasy, even though I knew it would mean social suicide from my Muslim circle of friends/family.  Sometimes you've just got to be self-reliant and believe in yourself.  Scratch that.  You must *always* be self-reliant and believe in yourself.

    As an atheist, I was DEFINITELY not going to agree to marry a Muslimah (and have kids with her!).  That would be very wrong on many levels, and would cause me untold grief in the future.

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: From me to you
     Reply #125 - June 16, 2010, 11:12 PM

    Hotchick, speak to your parents. they obviously had concerns straight from the start.


    Yes, that too. Might suck to admit they had a point  Wink, but they can help provide some much-needed support through what you need to do next.

    fuck you
  • Re: From me to you
     Reply #126 - June 17, 2010, 12:15 AM

    Oh and tell your mum Bridget Gabriel is a wanker. Wink

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: From me to you
     Reply #127 - June 18, 2010, 12:13 AM

    Hi hotchick.  I am American and beguiled into Islam for about 1 1/2 years before I couldnt take
    the lies and double standards any longer.  and yes, there is a death penalty for those of us who
    reverted/converted/born into islam and then decide that it is NOT divinely inspired, NOR does
    the inconsistencies in the quran AND hadiths show any divine miracles.  ALL of the info claimed
    to be miraculously inspired was general knowledge in the civilized world outside of Saudi already.
    Even if you read about the miracle of birth... "first was a clot"  oh really? A clot?  A CLOT is a bunch
    of DEAD blood cells, NOT the joining of an egg and sperm.  "then a lump"  More dead blood.
    A JUST pregnant woman having clots and hemmorages means she's not preggers any longer.  You
    continue reading on, and it gets better.  Hmmm.. first the bones are created, then the skin wraps around
    the bones.  Sure... maybe in some alien world's society?  Keep on reading in that chapter.  A male;s
    "discharge" (orgasm) comes from his tail bone, and a females "discharge" comes from her ribs.  It ALSO says the
    baby is in the mother's STOMACH "tummy"  not her womb.  It ALSO states that once the "drop of sperm"
    (there are potentially 100s of thousands of sperm in ONE DROP) has gone insde the woman, it sticks like a
    leach and stays there.  NOT TRUE..  Even the EGG is not permanently attached untill well after fertilization.
    The egg travels down into the uterine wall, and finally finds a place to attach itself.  STILL NO BLOOD THO, just
    cells dividing away.

    [We] then formed the drop into a clot and formed the clot into a lump and formed the lump into bones and clothed the bones in flesh; and then brought him into being as another creature. Blessed be Allah, the Best of Creators! (Qur'an, 23:14)

    that entire chapter is ludecrous!!!

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: From me to you
     Reply #128 - June 18, 2010, 12:31 AM

    here.. see it for yourself.

    http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/miracles-of-quran-if-man-discharge-first-baby-is-a-boy/df37315c8f2e34a94e29df37315c8f2e34a94e29-88549228971?q=if%20man%20discharges%20first%20boy&FORM=VIRE2

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: From me to you
     Reply #129 - June 18, 2010, 01:10 AM

    Oh. My. Fucking. God.

    How did I miss this thread?? HotChick... !!!

    Ok, so I mostly skimmed the thread, but I read all the important parts and I just have to say yes I agree to everything everyone said, especially Manat, and had I found this thread earlier I would have told you the same. I am so glad to hear that you are beginning to realize what you are getting yourself into.

    So I just have a few comments now: first, don't go to Tunisia. Please. You will just be stepping closer (if not into) the fire. You've gotten yourself in this far, and you have a child now, please stay where you are safe until you can figure things out.

    Second, please don't let yourself think that the bad things everyone is telling you about might not happen. Sure they might not, but don't bank on that. I know someone who is stuck in a Middle Eastern country because she married someone she met in the States. And yes, he was all liberal and western-minded and etc, but that doesn't last. She is STUCK now and she must choose between her children or her freedom. Same with another woman: there was a language barrier when they were married and she got screwed in many ways because of that, and she is now also STUCK in a miserable marriage. You seem to have ALL THE RED FLAGS in your relationship, and I'm glad you are coming to your senses.

    His religion and his culture are not to be taken lightly, and please trust me... though you love him, and he loves you, and you have a child, it is not going to be a fairy tale ending.

    Well, I guess I don't really need to say any more because others have pretty much told you everything you will be dealing with, but I can just chime in and be yet another person to vouch for the truth of it. Your chances of long-term happiness with this man are very low, but not only that... your chances that he (and/or his family) will ruin your life beyond repair are very high.

    I'm looking forward to hear back from you after you've had time to think about things.

    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
    - 32nd United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt
  • Re: From me to you
     Reply #130 - June 18, 2010, 01:25 AM

    hotchick.  I had a moroccan in serious hot pursuit of me.  THANK GOODNESS i wasnt interested!!!
    Matter of fact, MOST of the muslimahs i knew (even the guys) were trying to pressure me to marry
    a "good muslim man".    Tunisia is NOT a fun place for a muslim "wife", especially one of western decent.
    HIS family has the right to make your life a living hell, and if you complain about it to HIM, guess who
    he is going to side with. (hint: 99.9% its NOT gonna be you).   Once there, your child will become HIS
    and HIS family's child.  If you try to leave, they WILL keep the child and discard you like a snot rag. 
    Or beat some sense into you.  Also, check with embassies in the Middle East and North Africa.  Many of
    them, when western women wake up to the nightmare of their reality, the embassy's hands are tied
    because you have  sucumbed to shariah law, or the laws of that country. So chances that even the
    embassadors WILL NOT BE ABLE TO HELP YOU!   Have you asked him about the marriage contract and
    about a Wali?  Guess what.. its all in arabic UNLESS you get married in a mosque in the west.  But still,
    its russian roulette.  Will they be giving YOU A dowry, or are you planning on helping support your husband?
    PLEASE think twice, thrice, and a hundred more times before romanticizing this relationship.  Have you
    read up on tunsinia? And not just the beautiful weddings.  Cuz once the party is over, its OVER!!   Ive
    met western muslimahs that HAVE managed to get back to the states, and their stories are worse than
    nightmares!!!   EVERY single middle eastern man ive known married to a western woman eventually
    tries to get them to move to their country.  Some of them had children.   You can do a google search
    on "western women middle eastern men" and read some of the horror stories for yourself. 

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: From me to you
     Reply #131 - June 18, 2010, 01:47 AM

    here.. i found one site for you
    http://sheikyermami.com/2009/11/10/when-jewish-or-western-women-marry-arab-men/

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: From me to you
     Reply #132 - June 18, 2010, 01:51 AM

    That site is crap.

    fuck you
  • Re: From me to you
     Reply #133 - June 18, 2010, 02:03 AM


    This link only contains bigoted anecdotal anonymous vitriol and I have to say as an Arab I am very offended.
    My father never laid hands on my mother or sister for that matter. In fact in most fights/disagreements he's usually the one who caves in. And my dad is not exactly a liberal minded bloke.

    And although domestic abuse rates might be higher in Muslim or Arab households, it certainly is not unique to them.

    I advised HotChick not to rush things and not get her son a Tunisian passport based on what the implications might be. If I was in her shoes I would call off the marriage or at least postpone it.

    But please Dreamer, don't extrapolate bigoted views against large groups of people from uncorroborated anecdotes, biased websites, or personal experiences.
  • Re: From me to you
     Reply #134 - June 18, 2010, 02:42 AM

    okay... its your right to disagree with it.  Lets forget about religion for a sec and look strictly at culture.
    A western woman moves with her husband to the ME or north africa.  Are you going to tell me, that
    if that woman doesnt get along with his family, and the cultural divide is so great, that she is going to
    be happy there?  What if his mother doesnt like her? then what?  In the west, oh hell yes this happens
    too, but in the west, they can always move away from the "in laws"  How often is that the case in the
    ME and North africa?  Lets face it, if you CAN make mom in law happy, you too, can have a happy life.
    And you are telling me, that in an islamic country, if she divorces him and wants to move back west,
    WHO gets the kids? hmmm?  My one year stay on the northern border of iraq was interesting to say the least.
    How will a married foreign woman fair in the ME or north africa.  Oh, I dunno, let me ask my sister who
    lived in Jedda for seven years, imprisoned in her compound the whole while!  Her husband, who
    FREQUENTLY went on business trips out fo the country didnt have any problems.  Its one thing in many
    countries, even hijab free, for nationals to get away with doing things, but we are talking about a foreigner
    here, with absolutey zero knowledge of the culture/country she is going to live in.  No relatives, no
    friends she grew up with, strangers in EVERY neighborhood, not to mention dealing with languages she
    may not understand.    Iraqi Athiest.  Are you aware of the number of western women in the past, and
    currently living in hell over there?  Are you aware of the number of ME and NA men "courting" western
    women for either playthings until they get married or marry them, take them "home" where they live
    subservient until they die or can escape?  This is not meant to offend you as an arab man.  These are
    the facts.  As I suggested... I recommended her to contact embassies and find out the facts for herself.
    If any should be offended, it is I, a western woman, being exploited.

     far away hug

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: From me to you
     Reply #135 - June 18, 2010, 02:50 AM

     Roll Eyes

    Let's see-- IA recommends HotChick NOT move to Tunisia and marry this man, but he attacks your source as bigoted BS (which it is), and then you proceed to go on a poorly-constructed rant about how poorly women are treated in Muslim countries, which IA is already well aware of. So what's your point?

    fuck you
  • Re: From me to you
     Reply #136 - June 18, 2010, 02:53 AM

    i will add.. i was treated with GREAT respect, graciousness and afforded every courtesy while i was over your way.
    I was there for work, I was not married.  

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: From me to you
     Reply #137 - June 18, 2010, 02:56 AM

    Q you have no idea how happy i am that you are not big Al    dance

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: From me to you
     Reply #138 - June 18, 2010, 02:58 AM

    Huh?

    fuck you
  • Re: From me to you
     Reply #139 - June 18, 2010, 03:10 AM

    if you had read the entire thread, FIRST OF ALL, you would have found there were several objectionable posts, as well,
    one even quoting surats, about the treatment of women.  The reason I CHOSE that thread because IF you had read more, you would have found some women were HAPPY with their western/muslim marriages. It was not biased, all views had been voiced.. and i would LOVE to know who wrote under the user name "exmuslim" LOL!!!  Did you read THEIR comments? LOL   it has a tell tale signature, but who knows

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: From me to you
     Reply #140 - June 18, 2010, 03:15 AM

    I give up

    fuck you
  • Re: From me to you
     Reply #141 - June 18, 2010, 05:18 AM

     Are you going to tell me, that
    if that woman doesnt get along with his family, and the cultural divide is so great, that she is going to
    be happy there?  What if his mother doesnt like her? then what?

    I don't disagree with this, I disagree with the website. Not getting alone is not the same as being forced to have 6 kids and getting beat up everyday (which is what the website says).


    In the west, oh hell yes this happens
    too, but in the west, they can always move away from the "in laws"  How often is that the case in the
    ME and North africa?  Lets face it, if you CAN make mom in law happy, you too, can have a happy life.

    I have 10 aunts and uncles on both sides and NONE of them lives with their parents (my grandfathers and grandmothers).


    And you are telling me, that in an islamic country, if she divorces him and wants to move back west,
    WHO gets the kids? hmmm?

    Depends on how old the child is, the child's nationality, and the laws of the specific Muslim country.
    Again I have no problem with what you're saying here. In fact I have no problem with most of the advice you offered to HotChick. What I do have problem with is the website you linked to which says non-Muslim men shouldn't marry any Arab man because they all beat their wives.


     My one year stay on the


    northern border of iraq was interesting to say the least.
    How will a married foreign woman fair in the ME or north africa.  Oh, I dunno, let me ask my sister who
    lived in Jedda for seven years, imprisoned in her compound the whole while!  Her husband, who
    FREQUENTLY went on business trips out fo the country didnt have any problems.  Its one thing in many
    countries, even hijab free, for nationals to get away with doing things, but we are talking about a foreigner
    here, with absolutey zero knowledge of the culture/country she is going to live in.  No relatives, no
    friends she grew up with, strangers in EVERY neighborhood, not to mention dealing with languages she
    may not understand.

    Same as above. Good advice from you but bigoted racist vitriol from the website.


    Iraqi Athiest.  Are you aware of the number of western women in the past, and
    currently living in hell over there?  Are you aware of the number of ME and NA men "courting" western
    women for either playthings until they get married or marry them, take them "home" where they live
    subservient until they die or can escape?  This is not meant to offend you as an arab man.  These are
    the facts.  As I suggested... I recommended her to contact embassies and find out the facts for herself.

    Same as above. Although I would add that you shouldn't generalize. My uncle lives in Dubai and is married to a Russian woman who converted to Islam. She doesn't pray or fast and my uncle didn't force her to. She visits her parents in Russia every summer and stays there for 3 months while he stays in Dubai for work. She takes their son and daughter with her and she teaches them Russian.


    If any should be offended, it is I, a western woman, being exploited.

    Yeah but I never called for you to be exploited. I never said Western women should marry Muslim men and move to their countries. When I do that, you have every right to be offended.
    Whereas you recommended and endorsed a website that says non-Muslim women should never marry Arabs because they beat their women. Therefore I have a right to be offended.


    Anyway, I thank you for your PM in which you explained your position. So let's forget about it  Afro
  • Re: From me to you
     Reply #142 - June 18, 2010, 09:33 AM

    HotChick,

    I too am a westerner who 'converted' to Islam and married a Muslim man.

    I will tell you from my experiences what will most likely happen to you.  Whilst my experiences were, fortunately, as bad as some I was left humbled by my sheer ignorance once I'd gotten married and moved to a different country.

    I was already a Muslimah when I met and married my British-Muslim husband.  Although he is a really great guy and his family is quite liberal by their cultural standards I was still pressured, albeit in a subtle manner to conform to certain norms which I was downright uncomfortable with such as the peer pressure to observe hijab, to abstain from celebrating non-Muslim holidays, eating ONLY halal food, not just meat but also certain sweets, etc.  This meant I had to check the labels on all food packaging in supermarkets to see if there were any of the dreaded 'E-numbers' which would automatically make something haram to consume.  I asked myself, 'what does this have to do with God and spirituality which is what I thought religion is all about?'.

    You can't just be a Muslim on paper.  This was the mistake I made as I thought I could be a secular 'cultural' Muslim but you will be pressured into praying 5 times a day, wearing hijab even when it's rediculously hot and muggy out, fasting during Ramadan and attending the tediously long taraweeh prayers at the mosque.  When it comes to social functions you will find yourself segregated with the women in a back room or the kitchen where all the conversations will be about who is getting engaged/married and who is going to have a baby.  If you like to talk about politics and other 'worldly' matters you will find yourself bored senseless trying to strike up a meaningful converstion with the 'Stepford Wives'.

    I also had to deal with the fact that my husband and his family were not too concerned with the fact that I had given up my life and family back home to move to the UK to be with them.  As a new Muslim you will forever be treated as a child as people will ALWAYS assume that you know next to nothing about Islam, even if you've been a Muslim for 20 years or more!  As a woman you will also be treated as a child, purely because you are a woman.  You will have fellow 'brothers' and 'sisters' trying to tell you how you should dress, pray, eat, sleep.  You will inevitably come into contact with the strict Saudi Wahhabi strain of Islam which has become so popular lately and the rediculous restrictions it places on women.

    When I was a Muslim I felt as if I was living my life like the Jehova's Witness kids I went to school with back in the States.  They would be pulled out of sex ed classes by their parents, not allowed to participate in holiday festivities (if you like Halloween, like I do then DO NOT become a Muslim as you will be expressly prevented from celebrating it!).  Basically you will be watching others enjoying their lives from the gilded cage you have been placed in.  You will come to miss and appreciate the liberal culture in which you were brought up.

    If you were to move to Tunisia don't expect your bf's family to have much simpathy if you become homesick.  You will be expected to grin and bear it as that is a woman's lot in life under Islam.

    I was fortunate in that I never had children with my husband and we were able to part on amicable terms although having to ask for a divorce was heart wrenching as I still love him but I couldn't live the lifestyle he required of me.  You may not be as fortunate as I was especially if you have a child.

    Do think about the kind of future you want to give your child, where would he get the best education?  Where is YOUR support network as his mother?  Back home with your family.  You will need your family's support when times get tough, don't doubt it.  I thought I could cope on my own but even at 30 odd years of age I have found that one's family and friends are the best support network one can have.  Also think about any friends you have at home.  If you set up house with your bf you may be prevented from socialising with them and forget going out to your local for a few drinks!

    Basically if you find any pleasure in activities which can be deemed 'un-Islamic' and you can't live without them (smoking, for instance or even sports and horse-riding for women and girls) then do not convert to Islam because most likely you will be prohibited from partaking in these activities and required instead to stay at home, look after the house, family and kids.

    Now, it is up to you to decide what kind of life you want for yourself and your child.  I know you love your bf but is he really worth all this upheaval in your life?

    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: From me to you
     Reply #143 - June 18, 2010, 01:49 PM

    Are you kidding me? A bunch of Iranian Kurds were just executed for apostasy about six months ago. It was in the news.  I don't have time to look for it, but I think we had a thread on it.  


    Must admit Iran is all over the place on human rights violations.
  • Re: From me to you
     Reply #144 - June 18, 2010, 02:36 PM

    In my opinion , I think you should call it off if you can support that child by yourself. If you want the child's dad to be in your life then he can just be your boyfriend and he finds a way to move to the UK.

    + Are you sure he isn't just using you to get to the UK ? like most Arabs do..  because I know a lot of Arabs who did that ( Personally )
    take care and think a lot about what you are doing.

    [13:36] <Fimbles> anything above 7 inches
    [13:37] <Fimbles> is wacko
    [13:37] <Fimbles> see
    [13:37] <Fimbles> you think i'd enjoy anything above 7 inches up my arse?
  • Re: From me to you
     Reply #145 - October 09, 2010, 07:05 AM

    She converted to Islam in the end.

    Did you not have a daughter who converted to Islam? I could swear I read that some place here.


    Yes I do KT.  She (HotChick) went ahead and converted on marriage to a muslim guy in July.  wacko


    And King Tut not really cool dude why in the fuck would you troll at a moment like this? (King Tut was trolling as Sahasrara)

    Really? You have the gall to even speak to her mother after your posts in this thread?
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