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 Topic: A big HELLO from an ex-Shia

 (Read 26714 times)
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  • Re: A big HELLO from an ex-Shia
     Reply #30 - May 29, 2010, 03:56 PM
    Ooooh that does sound nice... I lurve chickpeas!
  • Re: A big HELLO from an ex-Shia
     Reply #31 - May 29, 2010, 04:17 PM
    Quote from: brummie on May 29, 2010, 03:27 PM
    The short answer to your question is NO! That's why I'm seeking the digital company of fellow ex-Muslims haha.

    Don't worry bro, there many ex-Muslims on this forum who have never met any ex-Muslims in real life, myself included.  Know that you have a lot of friends. hugs
    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: A big HELLO from an ex-Shia
     Reply #32 - May 29, 2010, 04:51 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on May 29, 2010, 02:39 PM
    I'm an ex shia-muslim agnostic atheist from Iraq too!  dance

    Welcome habibi Smiley

    Ya Ali!

    ROFL


    Oh my God! This forum is being taken by Iraqies... First BD, then IA, and now you Brummie! Conspiracy I see! ROFL

    Welcome Brummie  far away hug
    ...
  • Re: A big HELLO from an ex-Shia
     Reply #33 - May 29, 2010, 05:02 PM
    Welcome Brummie, from another ex-Shia-Muslim. Smiley
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: A big HELLO from an ex-Shia
     Reply #34 - May 29, 2010, 05:23 PM
    Quote from: brummie on May 29, 2010, 03:27 PM


    Ya hella o chitheer il hella! The short answer to your question is NO! That's why I'm seeking the digital company of fellow ex-Muslims haha.


    Welcome Brummie. Really hope that you enjoy it here. Hang around and get to know people, there are quite a few here from Brummieland!
  • Re: A big HELLO from an ex-Shia
     Reply #35 - May 29, 2010, 05:25 PM
    Welcome from another fellow ex-Shia! Your mentioning shiachat.com brought back cringeworthy memories of arguing in support of Wilayat al-Faqih.  015

     signwelcome
    Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
    Propagandhi - Failed States
  • Re: A big HELLO from an ex-Shia
     Reply #36 - May 29, 2010, 06:42 PM
    Hala beeehom  Wink

    Gald you introduced yourself brummie  Afro

    I immigrated to the UK less than 2 years ago and now live in the North East. Last time I was in Iraq was late '06.
    I'm also a medical student. I studied at Baghdad medical school for 3 years but I was forced to cut short my studies and flee the country. I have now been accepted to medical school here but I have to start from year 1 (I'm 23 Cry )

    Like I told you, my family is also liberal Shia. They never attend mosques (apart from Ziyarat Hussein's shrine and other Imams' when we were in Iraq ). And we fucking love Qeema  grin12  I have come out to them and it wasn't nearly as contentious as I feared. They also know that I eat non-Halal food. My life hasn't changed that much post-apostasy as I haven't prayed since I was 13 and was never really religious.

    If you wanna discuss your coming out further, we have an advice section. I guess the two main questions are: who are you planning to tell? and how religious is your family?


    Quote from: noallah on May 29, 2010, 03:05 PM
    Hello to All my exmuslim brothers.
    I feel the same way as my shia bro above. im28 now.
    istarted to doubtreligion when i was about 20. Hated all the quran reading and going mosque. was never interested in religion. my parents are shia too and until recelty i used to look forward to moharram because of all the activities that take place. the most boring part was listening to the imam talk endlessly about hussein and his family get slaughtered and the best part was the end when they gave out delicious food. lol. i havnt told my parents about it yet and am still a devout muslim to most. i pretend to fast, pretend to mourn in moharram. But to be honest all that blasphemy is kinda become a part of my life. but inside i dont believe in anything. no god, no mohammed and no imam ali. the 12th imam must be bored living in the cave for so many centuries.

    Welcome.
  • Re: A big HELLO from an ex-Shia
     Reply #37 - May 29, 2010, 07:33 PM
    Quote from: brummie on May 29, 2010, 03:27 PM
    The wikipedia page on Karl Popper is quite informative. It's a typical tipping point for an athiest-to-be as his ideas about the philosophy of science were never meant to be an attack on religion. His ideas were summarised nicely in a statistics lecture at med school (i was probably the only guy who felt inspired by them on a religious level in the lecture hall!)

    'we can't prove things exactly, only with degrees of certainty. It is hard (impossible) to prove something is right. It is easier (possible) to prove that something is wrong. To prove that things differ, we prove that it is very unlikley that they are the same. Initially seems a bizarre approach, but this is the Popperian logic which scientific evaluations all follow.'


    Thanks, this has helped, interesting stuff  Afro

    Good luck with med school Iraqi Atheist & brummie.

    Welcome also noallah!
    Hear ye -->> DONATE TO CEMB

    Relativism | Cognitive dissonance | Cognitive biases | Memeplex | Consequentialism
  • Re: A big HELLO from an ex-Shia
     Reply #38 - May 29, 2010, 08:21 PM
    Quote from: noallah on May 29, 2010, 03:05 PM
    Hello to All my exmuslim brothers.
    I feel the same way as my shia bro above. im28 now.
    istarted to doubtreligion when i was about 20. Hated all the quran reading and going mosque. was never interested in religion. my parents are shia too and until recelty i used to look forward to moharram because of all the activities that take place. the most boring part was listening to the imam talk endlessly about hussein and his family get slaughtered and the best part was the end when they gave out delicious food. lol. i havnt told my parents about it yet and am still a devout muslim to most. i pretend to fast, pretend to mourn in moharram. But to be honest all that blasphemy is kinda become a part of my life. but inside i dont believe in anything. no god, no mohammed and no imam ali. the 12th imam must be bored living in the cave for so many centuries.

    Why dont you start a separate intro thread, probably make it easier than replying to you here..
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  • Re: A big HELLO from an ex-Shia
     Reply #39 - May 29, 2010, 08:29 PM
     signwelcome Brummie.  Interesting you mention the high shia:sunnie ratio of exmuslims. I noticed that too, and was wondering if you had any thoughts as to why?  Its not as if sunni's believe in anything more of a truth that shia's lol.

    Also let us know how you came across this site..
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  • Re: A big HELLO from an ex-Shia
     Reply #40 - May 29, 2010, 08:42 PM
    IsLame,
    That is an interesting question.  I also get the feeling that people of Iran are more likely to kick religion (if they had the freedom to do so) than most Sunni countries.  Deep down, they seem fed up with all the authoritarianism.  Perhaps it's because they have seen real Sharia law in action.
    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: A big HELLO from an ex-Shia
     Reply #41 - May 29, 2010, 08:48 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on May 29, 2010, 08:29 PM
    signwelcome Brummie.  Interesting you mention the high shia:sunnie ratio of exmuslims. I noticed that too, and was wondering if you had any thoughts as to why?  Its not as if sunni's believe in anything more of a truth that shia's lol.


    has there been a pole on this ever on this forum? if not so then there should be one.
    Nothing can be more contrary to religion and the clergy than reason and common sense. - Voltaire
  • Re: A big HELLO from an ex-Shia
     Reply #42 - May 29, 2010, 08:49 PM
    Welcome Bro! Good to have you here.  Afro
    Nothing can be more contrary to religion and the clergy than reason and common sense. - Voltaire
  • Re: A big HELLO from an ex-Shia
     Reply #43 - May 29, 2010, 08:51 PM
    I think Iran is a different issue and less related to this particular question although admittedly they are predominantly shia.

    I think Iran is for 5 reasons

    1)  The history of a successful progressful nation during the time of the shah, and then came the Ayotollah
    2)  Dislike of Saudi Arabia and sunni Muslims
    3)  Its got a known rich history, culture & other religions (zorostrianism) prior to Islam
    4) Per capita its a well educated nation, and education is highly respected
    5) Its a nation that was not formed because of Islam such as Pakistan & Saudi so it does not share that sense of indebtedness that other nations may feel
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  • Re: A big HELLO from an ex-Shia
     Reply #44 - May 29, 2010, 09:18 PM
    Quote from: brummie on May 29, 2010, 12:10 PM
    Hello/salam everyone,

    Now that my exams have finished, I'm finally after 2 years of passive athiesm, being a little bit more proactive about it.

    I was born in Baghdad and emigrated to the UK when I was 8. Now I live in the UK with my immediate 'liberal Shia' family.

    I'm 19 now, but most of my teenage life I was infatuated with Islamic and Western philosophy. Now that I look back at what I read I can't believe I didn't leave religion sooner, but I guess I learned from philosophy how to construct fantastic and dare I say nonsensical defences for things like Islam.

    This defence lasted a number of years and collapsed literally within 5 minutes when I was reading about Popperian logic. Popperian logic basically explains the scientific method, and when I applied the scientific method to Islam, it became clear that all of religion is untenable.

    The wierd part of this, is that I still have some sort of affection for Islam and especially Imam Ali and Hussein (I think I fit the Shia stereotype here as Sunnis always accuse Shias of not loving Muhammad enough  Cheesy). Nevertheless, I now regard such figures as historical curiosities just as I would regard Napoleon as a historical curiosity. There are things I like about them and things which I don't, but at the end of the day I'll never be a Muslim.

    I still haven't 'come out of the athiest closet' as I have dug myself a very biggg hole. The big hole consists of my social status as being very religious (like I said, I literally gave up faith in 5 minutes, it wasn't a gradual thing). Therefore it would be a huge surprise for everyone if I came out as an athiest now.

    I think I'm going to enjoy my time here - to finally share experiences with like-minded people like yourselves  Smiley

    ps. it's quite funny how a couple of months ago I would have logged on to shiachat.com forum Cheesy


    Welcome, brummie  Afro

    btw this forum is for Sunni ex-Muslims ONLY!

    Shia Ex-Muslims have their own forum.


















    Kidding  grin12
  • Re: A big HELLO from an ex-Shia
     Reply #45 - May 29, 2010, 09:19 PM
    Grin
  • Re: A big HELLO from an ex-Shia
     Reply #46 - May 29, 2010, 09:22 PM
    Quote from: noallah on May 29, 2010, 03:05 PM
    Hello to All my exmuslim brothers.
    I feel the same way as my shia bro above. im28 now.
    istarted to doubtreligion when i was about 20. Hated all the quran reading and going mosque. was never interested in religion. my parents are shia too and until recelty i used to look forward to moharram because of all the activities that take place. the most boring part was listening to the imam talk endlessly about hussein and his family get slaughtered and the best part was the end when they gave out delicious food. lol. i havnt told my parents about it yet and am still a devout muslim to most. i pretend to fast, pretend to mourn in moharram. But to be honest all that blasphemy is kinda become a part of my life. but inside i dont believe in anything. no god, no mohammed and no imam ali. the 12th imam must be bored living in the cave for so many centuries.


    Welcome noallah  Afro
  • Re: A big HELLO from an ex-Shia
     Reply #47 - May 29, 2010, 09:23 PM
    Wallah no Allah? Allah!!

    Sorry it sounded funny in my head.
  • Re: A big HELLO from an ex-Shia
     Reply #48 - May 29, 2010, 09:24 PM
    You see all these Shi'ah leaving Islam is because they were following Batil in the first place, so they just went from Kufr to Kufr!















    Again kidding  dance
  • Re: A big HELLO from an ex-Shia
     Reply #49 - May 29, 2010, 09:25 PM
     Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
  • Re: A big HELLO from an ex-Shia
     Reply #50 - May 29, 2010, 09:33 PM
    Rafidi dogs.  sheikh
    Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
    Propagandhi - Failed States
  • Re: A big HELLO from an ex-Shia
     Reply #51 - May 29, 2010, 09:33 PM
    On a personal note - and I know this is obviously anecdotal - but I had a lot of experience with Iraqi Shi'ah at Islamia School during the years I taught there and they really were the best kids and lovely families - honestly I will never forget them - they were truly wonderful children.

    In fact of the few who have contacted me after I left Islam - most of them have been the Iraqi Shia ex-pupils. They seem to have a spark of inquisitiveness and questioning in them.

     Afro
  • Re: A big HELLO from an ex-Shia
     Reply #52 - May 29, 2010, 09:35 PM
    hi brummie,

    wellcome to the forum mate  Smiley

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: A big HELLO from an ex-Shia
     Reply #53 - May 29, 2010, 09:53 PM
    Brummie, also what I dont understand is why Popperian logic would have lead to you discounting Islam within 5 minutes. 

    Surely you would have understood the scientific method before med school, why did you suddenly get a Eureka moment then when you had no doubts before?

    Proof is one of the arguments you will have successfully mentally defended against before, and religion has successfully managed to build several mental barricades as to why its above such scrutiny.  So why do you think it happened then?  I am only surprised because I dont think anyone I have ever come across has managed to discount childhood indoctrinated beliefs within 5 minutes!
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  • Re: A big HELLO from an ex-Shia
     Reply #54 - May 29, 2010, 09:56 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on May 29, 2010, 09:53 PM
    Brummie, also what I dont understand is why Popperian logic would have lead to you discounting Islam within 5 minutes. 

    Surely you would have understood the scientific method before med school, why did you suddenly get a Eureka moment then when you had no doubts before?

    Proof is one of the arguments you will have successfully mentally defended against before, and religion has successfully managed to build several mental barricades as to why its above such scrutiny.  So why do you think it happened then?  I am only surprised because I dont think anyone I have ever come across has managed to discount childhood indoctrinated beliefs within 5 minutes!


    It was one of those "Aha!" moments - haven't you ever had them?
  • Re: A big HELLO from an ex-Shia
     Reply #55 - May 29, 2010, 10:01 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on May 29, 2010, 09:56 PM
    It was one of those "Aha!" moments - haven't you ever had them?

    Yep, Ive had lots of them to smaller points but never to whole ideologies.  Also I dont get them with questions like I have already considered like proof & scientific logic, as he as a science student undoubtedly would have.

    Can you imagine what kind of 5 minute long argument that it would take for you to believe in Islam again?
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  • Re: A big HELLO from an ex-Shia
     Reply #56 - May 29, 2010, 10:05 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on May 29, 2010, 10:01 PM
    Yep, Ive had lots of them to smaller points but never to whole ideologies.  Also I dont get them with questions like I have already considered like proof & scientific logic, as he as a science student undoubtedly would have.


    Well I guess it was bubbling up in the subconscious for quite a while - then suddenly burst out and poured out into the conscious.
  • Re: A big HELLO from an ex-Shia
     Reply #57 - May 29, 2010, 10:05 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on May 29, 2010, 08:29 PM
    signwelcome Brummie.  Interesting you mention the high shia:sunnie ratio of exmuslims. I noticed that too, and was wondering if you had any thoughts as to why?  Its not as if sunni's believe in anything more of a truth that shia's lol.

    My 2 cents: I think it is in the nature of beliefs.  I think Shia Islam is more baroque/ornate than Sunni Islam - with a more diffused focus of the core religious concepts (so where there is focus on Allah and Muhammad only in Sunni Islam, the focus is broadened in Shia Islam to include Ali, 12 Imams etc.) You also have more shrines, saints etc.  

    It is easier to start dismissing peripheral bits of a religion and "climb the stairs of unbelief" by dismissing peripheral bits and gradually moving higher. With a single focal point, there are no steps and so the full distance of unbelief is more daunting.

    Also when you have too many objects to focus on, one cannot give each as high a value as a single object. Also the relationship between the objects becomes less clear (and invites questions).

    I think that Catholicism also suffers from the same flaw as a memeplex as Shia Islam.

    Sunni Islam like certain forms of Protestant Christianity has a greater doctrinal purity/simplicity/clarity which makes it more difficult to mentally challenge. (IMO)
  • Re: A big HELLO from an ex-Shia
     Reply #58 - May 29, 2010, 10:07 PM
    yes With religion, like the old adage and marketing slogan goes "Keep it simple. Stupid"
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  • Re: A big HELLO from an ex-Shia
     Reply #59 - May 29, 2010, 10:13 PM
    That was a great post Hupla. Afro More than 2 cents worth. Wink

    Quote from: hupla on May 29, 2010, 10:05 PM
    It is easier to start dismissing peripheral bits of a religion and "climb the stairs of unbelief" by dismissing peripheral bits and gradually moving higher. With a single focal point, there are no steps and so the full distance of unbelief is more daunting.

    I like the analogy. Afro  It reminds me of the phrase 'climbing mount improbable'.
    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
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