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Theme Changer

 Topic: Hi everyone

 (Read 11716 times)
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  • Re: Hi everyone
     Reply #30 - May 28, 2010, 01:21 PM

    It's just one mental virus struggling to eradicate another so that its variation can continue to survive, that's why over time religionists have become so difficult to reason with, they've spent millennia altering and surviving to a point where they can survive rational scrutiny.

    I couldn't agree with debunker more Smiley


    Let them carry on.  Easiest yet harshest way to deal with viruses is let nature take care of them.

    They'll both keep mutating in order to find their optimal survival strategy.  They will discuss, argue, fight, murder but eventually they will both mutate to a point where they modernise and meet the current needs & desires of their hosts and pretty much become the same thing.  

    At that point they will be rendered inactive and hopefully inconsequential, particularly with science & progress, the other 2 more powerful memes, continually pecking at them..

    That can only be a good thing, and we being apostates manage to come off unscathed  Afro


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  • Re: Hi everyone
     Reply #31 - May 28, 2010, 01:23 PM

    Quote
    Q-Man

    Well, then, this is for you  grin12 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luther_and_antisemitism


    I already know about Luther's antisemitic remarks. The Lutheran Church has already apologized for his remarks.



    Quote
    Watching porn, flirting with the opposite sex, shooting guns, and getting ridiculously drunk on a regular basis are my hobbies. You should try those-- they're a lot more wholesome and fun than going to church.


     Cheesy
  • Re: Hi everyone
     Reply #32 - May 28, 2010, 01:30 PM

    signwelcome to the forum!
    Please tell us more about yourself popcorn.
    I just went on FFI and saw admin post a warning about bashing on Christianity and Hinduism.
    http://www.faithfreedom.org/11772.
    I dont think they should have anyone post anything on there they're all a bunch of Nazi's.
    Anyways congrats on finding this site, most of the people here dont have a life outside this site (except me  grin12).



    Nice find.  I didnt think that site could become anymore of a joke than it already has.  But then I saw the link, here it is pasted in case anyone here didnt read it..

    Quote
    FFI Editors

    Dear Readers,

    In the last few days, there has been comments by readers who are adamant at Bashing Christianity as well as Hinduism. This is a sad development of affairs on our FFI comments section.

    Please note the following:

    This site is NOT for Hindu Bashing
    This site is NOT for Christian Bashing
    This site is ONLY for Researching Islam and Exposing its Evil to the world.

    FFI has always been keen on its mission: Telling the truth about Islam and exposing it naked to the world. Matters of attacking other faiths is not something that is of interest to us.

    There has been a handful of readers leaving comments bashing Hinduism, others bashing Christianity. Our site is not the right place for this behavior. Leaving such comments offends us and lowers the bar for the quality of this great site.

    Hence,

    We would like to ask all of our readers to refrain arguing faiths other than Islam on this site. It is simply not the right place for it.

    What will happen if a reader leaves comments bashing Christianity or Hinduism?

    In our view, this is rude behavior.
    Such reader will be banned from leaving more comments on our site. We will not even email that person to warn him/her. This person will find out that he/she is banned when attempting another rude “comment” behavior. If we allow such a behavior to continue, we’ll end up with a group of immature juveniles picking on each other. Our site is not the place for this childish behavior.

    Thank you

    FFI Editors


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  • Re: Hi everyone
     Reply #33 - May 28, 2010, 01:38 PM

    Let them carry on.  Easiest yet harshest way to deal with viruses is let nature take care of them.

    They'll both keep mutating in order to find their optimal survival strategy.  They will discuss, argue, fight, murder but eventually they will both mutate to a point where they modernise and meet the current needs & desires of their hosts and pretty much become the something. 

    At that point they will be rendered inactive and hopefully inconsequential, particularly with science & progress, the other 2 more powerful memes, continually pecking at them..

    That can only be a good thing, and we being apostates manage to come off unscathed  Afro




    You can't leave them to it for a number of reasons.
    1: They will drag everyone else into their war.
    2: Unleashed religion will work its way into government.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Hi everyone
     Reply #34 - May 28, 2010, 01:41 PM

    Actually your post just got me thinking.  What happens if they do mutate and become so similar that they fuse into each other.  They become even more powerful  mysmilie_977 and will dominate the majority of this earth. 

    Aaargghhh  mysmilie_977

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  • Re: Hi everyone
     Reply #35 - May 28, 2010, 01:42 PM

    You can't leave them to it for a number of reasons.
    1: They will drag everyone else into their war.
    2: Unleashed religion will work its way into government.


    Yup

    fuck you
  • Re: Hi everyone
     Reply #36 - May 28, 2010, 01:57 PM

    Hi everyone

    I am a nonmuslim from the U.S.

    The reason I joined was to see what CEMB was like after hearing about you guys on FFI ( I use a different username on ffi which is my real name ).

    Welcome QueenIsabel. hugs
    Hope you enjoy being on this forum.  As you may have noticed already, I strongly support science and reason, and challenge religious dogma and pseudoscience, but I try to remain rational and objective at all times.  However, sometimes the emotion/passion gets the better of me. Tongue

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: Hi everyone
     Reply #37 - May 28, 2010, 02:39 PM

    QueenIsabel, if you don't mind me asking - do you believe in Hell?

    If you do - what does it mean to you? Who will go there? Do you believe it is eternal or temporary?

    Hell was one of my biggest problems with Islam and I am now astonished I didn't reject Islam earlier because of it - but I guess I tried to justify and make it more acceptable in many ways.

    This makes me curious as to how many others believe in such a concept and how they deal with the contradiction with a Loving Merciful God?
  • Re: Hi everyone
     Reply #38 - May 28, 2010, 03:04 PM

    Quote
    Hassan

    QueenIsabel, if you don't mind me asking - do you believe in Hell?


    Yes

    Quote
    If you do - what does it mean to you? Who will go there? Do you believe it is eternal or temporary?


    What does hell mean to me? It is an eternal place of suffering.

    Who will go there? Ok I know I will be criticized for this response, but I will post it anyway:

    Those who are not saved from God's judgement will go to hell

    I believe hell is eternal

    Quote
    Hell was one of my biggest problems with Islam and I am now astonished I didn't reject Islam earlier because of it - but I guess I tried to justify and make it more acceptable in many ways.


    A lot of people have a problem with the concept of Hell which is why some people reject it.

  • Re: Hi everyone
     Reply #39 - May 28, 2010, 03:10 PM

    Yes

    What does hell mean to me? It is an eternal place of suffering.

    Who will go there? Ok I know I will be criticized for this response, but I will post it anyway:

    Those who are not saved from God's judgement will go to hell

    I believe hell is eternal

    A lot of people have a problem with the concept of Hell which is why some people reject it.




    So do you think eternal torture for finite crimes is justified?
  • Re: Hi everyone
     Reply #40 - May 28, 2010, 03:22 PM

    Yes

    What does hell mean to me? It is an eternal place of suffering.

    Who will go there? Ok I know I will be criticized for this response, but I will post it anyway:

    Those who are not saved from God's judgement will go to hell

    I believe hell is eternal

    A lot of people have a problem with the concept of Hell which is why some people reject it.




    Thanks, I appreciate your honest and frank reply.

    So how do you deal with the contradiction between a loving God and the fact that he created a place of eternal suffering?
  • Re: Hi everyone
     Reply #41 - May 28, 2010, 03:25 PM

    Yes

    What does hell mean to me? It is an eternal place of suffering.

    Who will go there? Ok I know I will be criticized for this response, but I will post it anyway:

    Those who are not saved from God's judgement will go to hell

    I believe hell is eternal

    A lot of people have a problem with the concept of Hell which is why some people reject it.




    To add to Zebedee's question:

    So do you think eternal torture for finite crimes is justified?


    I have some related questions--

    1. Why would an all-powerful and all-knowing (and all-good according to Christian doctrine) being create sentient and self-conscious animals who he knew would disobey him, simply to torture them eternally? How is this moral?

    2. Why would an all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-good being make belief in him and obedience to him the sole criteria for being saved from eternal torture? How is this moral?

    3. Why would such a being create irrational rules and eternally torture people who break them? And, related to question my (1) above, why would he then go on to create people who he knew would break these rules? (e.g.-- Men with inborn homosexual tendencies) How is this moral?

    4. Finally, would you not agree that any person who did these sort of things would be unquestionably be considered immoral by most people (including most devout Christians)-- e.g. "obey my irrational rules and believe in my power or I'll torture you endlessly", "I'm going to breed the most vicious pit bulls just so I can torture them as punishment for being vicious"? If so, why is it that when God does it it's "good", even when a person does it it's considered immoral, by the very conscience that God supposedly gave us?

    ***EDIT***

    As to question #2, isn't it also terribly unjust that God would punish us for not believing in him and his incarnation as Jesus Christ when there are so many competing religions and worldviews, and he's given us no obvious, objective measure for judging which is right and which is wrong? So basically Muslims and Jews go to hell because their parents raised them in that religion and your all-loving God didn't bother to show them why it's wrong.

    fuck you
  • Re: Hi everyone
     Reply #42 - May 28, 2010, 03:29 PM

    So do you think eternal torture for finite crimes is justified?


    It depends on the person's relationship with God. A person can be saved from hell if they repent, ask for God's forgiveness, and never commit the crime again ( unless they committed some really heinous crime, then it would be up to God ).
  • Re: Hi everyone
     Reply #43 - May 28, 2010, 03:34 PM

    Can you go to heaven if you dont believe God exists?

    Should homosexuals try to become straight?

    Was Jesus himself God?

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  • Re: Hi everyone
     Reply #44 - May 28, 2010, 03:35 PM

    She already answered that. She follows strict Lutheran doctrine in this matter. No belief in Jebus, you go to hell.

    Her God is every bit as much of a cruel, tyrannical asshole as that of the Muslims, but she's too brainwashed to see it.


    fuck you
  • Re: Hi everyone
     Reply #45 - May 28, 2010, 03:36 PM

    Thanks, I appreciate your honest and frank reply.

    So how do you deal with the contradiction between a loving God and the fact that he created a place of eternal suffering?


    While God is a loving being, he is also a Just being, meaning he is a judge and will judge us.

    Also Christianity preaches that humans have fallen away from God and because of this we cannot enter heaven. Because of this there is no other place for us to reside.
  • Re: Hi everyone
     Reply #46 - May 28, 2010, 03:39 PM

    While God is a loving being, he is also a Just being, meaning he is a judge and will judge us.

    Also Christianity preaches that humans have fallen away from God and because of this we cannot enter heaven. Because of this there is no other place for us to reside.


    Yeah. It wouldn't do to simply annihilate people. And God can't let them into heaven so I guess he really just has no choice but to torture people forever.  yes
  • Re: Hi everyone
     Reply #47 - May 28, 2010, 03:41 PM

    It depends on the person's relationship with God. A person can be saved from hell if they repent, ask for God's forgiveness, and never commit the crime again ( unless they committed some really heinous crime, then it would be up to God ).


    That's a very strange way of answering that question. Either eternal torture for finite crimes is justified, regardless of the specifics, or it isn't.
  • Re: Hi everyone
     Reply #48 - May 28, 2010, 03:42 PM

    While God is a loving being, he is also a Just being, meaning he is a judge and will judge us.

    Also Christianity preaches that humans have fallen away from God and because of this we cannot enter heaven. Because of this there is no other place for us to reside.


    Do you think eternal suffering is justice?

    Why doesn't God just kill them? Make them not exist anymore?

  • Re: Hi everyone
     Reply #49 - May 28, 2010, 03:50 PM

    I am going to quote a post that Prince Spinoza made on another thread a few days ago, because I think it is relevant and well articulated:

    This was directed @debunker
    I asked you about what you believe is deemed criminal enough to be punished eternally for it. I've kinda lost track of where the thread was so I'll respond here.

    From the page you linked me to, I got the impression that you argue it is 'disbelief', right? Someone who does not believe in Allah will be punished eternally. The problem I have with this is that believing isn't a choice. Forget the free will argument, let's assume it exists. Still it follows that the act of believing, in itself, is not a choice. You cannot choose to believe the keyboard you're typing with doesn't exist, and more than you can choose to believe there is a pink unicorn under your bed. You have to be made to believe. You cannot just say 'okay, I'm going to believe x,y and z.' Belief is forced upon people by their surroundings. So you saying to me that people will be punished incomprehensibly harshly for something they didn't choose to do, is indefensible. (Especially considering the nature of the 'crime', disbelief in a needless God! Is there a less harmful act?!)


    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: Hi everyone
     Reply #50 - May 28, 2010, 04:08 PM

    To add to Zebedee's question:

    I have some related questions--

    1. Why would an all-powerful and all-knowing (and all-good according to Christian doctrine) being create sentient and self-conscious animals who he knew would disobey him, simply to torture them eternally? How is this moral?[/quote]

    I do not believe God created humans just to torture them, because sending people to hell was not part of the original plan. As for the rest of your question, I do not have an answer.

    Quote
    2. Why would an all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-good being make belief in him and obedience to him the sole criteria for being saved from eternal torture? How is this moral


    Because he wants us to be in communion with him.

    Christianity teaches that humans are sinful by nature (humanity is messed up ) and because of our sinful nature it prevents us from having a relationship with God and heaven. That is why Jesus was sent to die on the cross, to bear our sins and bring us to God.
    Quote
    3. Why would such a being create irrational rules and eternally torture people who break them? And,


    Could you elaborate more on this?

    Quote
    related to question my (1) above, why would he then go on to create people who he knew would break these rules? (e.g.-- Men with inborn homosexual tendencies) How is this moral?


    Science has not proven as to whether or not people are born with homosexual tendencies.

    Because of this I can only give my personal opinion on homosexuality: I believe homosexuality is unnatural and homosexual sex is a sin. As to whether or not a gay person will go to Hell depends on their relationship with God.

    Quote
    4. Finally, would you not agree that any person who did these sort of things would be unquestionably be considered immoral by most people (including most devout Christians)-- e.g. "obey my irrational rules and believe in my power or I'll torture you endlessly", "I'm going to breed the most vicious pit bulls just so I can torture them as punishment for being vicious"? If so, why is it that when God does it it's "good", even when a person does it it's considered immoral, by the very conscience that God supposedly gave us?


    I have no answer to that question

    Quote
    As to question #2, isn't it also terribly unjust that God would punish us for not believing in him and his incarnation as Jesus Christ when there are so many competing religions and worldviews, and he's given us no obvious, objective measure for judging which is right and which is wrong? So basically Muslims and Jews go to hell because their parents raised them in that religion and your all-loving God didn't bother to show them why it's wrong.


    Ok I know will be criticized for this:

    I believe God is showing us the way to him. The reason people are not finding him is because they are not listening.
  • Re: Hi everyone
     Reply #51 - May 28, 2010, 04:11 PM

    Quote
    IsLame
    Can you go to heaven if you dont believe God exists?

    Should homosexuals try to become straight?


    I already answered these questions in my previous posts.

    Quote
    Was Jesus himself God?


    Yes.
  • Re: Hi everyone
     Reply #52 - May 28, 2010, 04:13 PM

    The reason people are not finding him is because they are not listening.


    And justice demands these people suffer eternally?
  • Re: Hi everyone
     Reply #53 - May 28, 2010, 04:21 PM

    Do you think eternal suffering is justice?


    Hell is a cruel, horrible place. To be honest with you I don't want to see anyone be sent to hell, not even my worst enemy.

    Quote
    Why doesn't God just kill them? Make them not exist anymore?


    I don't know
  • Re: Hi everyone
     Reply #54 - May 28, 2010, 04:25 PM

    Hell is a cruel, horrible place. To be honest with you I don't want to see anyone be sent to hell, not even my worst enemy


    Of course! I can't imagine any decent person wishing that on anyone - which makes it all the harder to believe God would do this.

    But you didn't answer the question - do you think it is Justice that people must suffer for eternity. (Eternity is a mind-blowing thing)
  • Re: Hi everyone
     Reply #55 - May 28, 2010, 04:30 PM

    And justice demands these people suffer eternally?


    Let me put it to you this way:

    Everyone has a sinful nature that seperates us from God and heaven. That is why God sent Jesus to die on the cross, to up our sins and to bring reconciliation between us and God. If people do not acknowledge Jesus's sacrifice then they have to face God's judgement.
  • Re: Hi everyone
     Reply #56 - May 28, 2010, 04:34 PM

    I'm cool with the whole torture thing. Bring it onnnnnnnn!
  • Re: Hi everyone
     Reply #57 - May 28, 2010, 04:36 PM

    Quote
    Hassan
    Of course! I can't imagine any decent person wishing that on anyone - which makes it all the harder to believe God would do this.


    That is why some people have doubts about hell.

    As for me sometimes I have doubts about Christianity.

    Quote
    But you didn't answer the question - do you think it is Justice that people must suffer for eternity. (Eternity is a mind-blowing thing)


    I believe the cruelty of Hell and the punishment that it inflicts upon people cannot be justified.
  • Re: Hi everyone
     Reply #58 - May 28, 2010, 04:37 PM

    Let me put it to you this way:

    Everyone has a sinful nature that seperates us from God and heaven. That is why God sent Jesus to die on the cross, to up our sins and to bring reconciliation between us and God. If people do not acknowledge Jesus's sacrifice then they have to face God's judgement.

    But Jesus didnt die, so he didnt really sacrifice anything.  In fact Jesus was himself anyway and he knew he's eternal so what did he do again?


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  • Re: Hi everyone
     Reply #59 - May 28, 2010, 04:39 PM

    I believe the cruelty of Hell and the punishment that it inflicts upon people cannot be justified.


    Thank you.

    Yet you are willing to put your reason aside - why?
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