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 Topic: 'Al-Qaeda ringleader' wins appeal against deportation

 (Read 19257 times)
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  • 'Al-Qaeda ringleader' wins appeal against deportation
     OP - May 18, 2010, 12:22 PM

    'Al-Qaeda ringleader' wins appeal against deportation



    The alleged leader of an al-Qaeda plot to bomb targets in north-west England has won his appeal against deportation.

    A special immigration court said Abid Naseer was an al-Qaeda operative - but could not be deported because he faced torture or death back home in Pakistan.

    Mr Naseer, 23, was one of 10 Pakistani students arrested last April as part of a massive counter-terrorism operation in Liverpool and Manchester.

    Another student, Ahmad Faraz Khan, also 23, won his appeal on similar grounds.

    The security services believed the men were planning to attack within days of their arrest, but neither student was charged.

    'Stigmatised for life'

    The Home Secretary, Theresa May, said she would not be appealing against the ruling, handed down by the Special Immigration Appeals Commission.

    She said: "We are disappointed that the court has ruled that Abid Naseer and Ahmad Faraz Khan should not be deported to Pakistan, which we were seeking on national security grounds.
    "As the court agreed, they are a security risk to the UK. We are now taking all possible measures to ensure they do not engage in terrorist activity."

    The lawyer for both men, Gareth Peirce, said the ruling was the "worst of all possible worlds" because they were flagged up as being involved in terrorism based on evidence "one is not told".

    She said: "It's no victory even though the young men have won, in the sense that they have been stigmatised for life and put at risk or even further risk in their own country on the basis of the shocking phenomenon of secret evidence.

    "It's no way to conduct justice. If people have committed a crime, put them on trial."

    A third man, Shoaib Khan, 31, who is already back in Pakistan, was cleared of any involvement in terrorism.
    The ruling effectively means that MI5's case against two of the men has been supported by the courts even though neither of them was ever charged with a criminal offence.

    Two other men also arrested in the raids lost their deportation appeals. Abdul Wahab Khan, 27, and Tariq Ur Rehman, 38, had already returned to Pakistan.
    In his judgement, Mr Justice Mitting said Mr Naseer was sending e-mails to a contact in Pakistan - and that the recipient was an "al-Qaeda operative".
    The e-mails were said to be at the heart of the plot and culminated in a message sent to Pakistan in April 2009 in which Mr Naseer said he had set a date to marry, something MI5 said was code for an attack date.

    "We are satisfied that Naseer was an al-Qaeda operative who posed and still poses a serious threat to the national security of the United Kingdom," the judgement said.

    It added: "Subject to the issue of safety on return, it is conducive to the public good that he should be deported."

    The judge said Ahmad Faraz Khan had become a "knowing party" to the plan because he had "undergone a radical change in view" between leaving home and studying in the UK.

    'Committed Islamists'

    But in both cases, Mr Justice Mitting said it was impossible to return the men to Pakistan.
    "There is a long and well-documented history of disappearances, illegal detention and of the torture and ill-treatment of those detained, usually to produce information, a confession or compliance," said the judgement.

    Turning to the three students who have already left the UK, Mr Justice Mitting said Abdul Wahab Khan and Tariq ur Rehman were committed Islamists who knew of Mr Naseer's plan.

    The final student, Shoaib Khan, however, won his appeal, with the court saying there was no evidence of wrongdoing against him.

    The controversial affair began last April when the Metropolitan Police's then head of counter-terrorism, Assistant Commissioner Bob Quick, accidentally revealed details of the investigation.
    Mr Quick resigned after he was photographed with clearly visible secret documents outside 10 Downing Street.

    Police brought their operation forward and raided a series of locations across Liverpool, Manchester and Lancashire, eventually detaining 11 men.

    Ten of them were students from Pakistan, who were all either close friends or loosely known to each other.

    Former Prime Minister Gordon Brown said at the time that the security services were "dealing with a very big terrorist plot".

    But no explosives were found and all of the men were released without charge after two weeks.

    They were immediately detained again under immigration laws after the then home secretary sought their deportation, saying they were still a threat to national security.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8688501.stm
  • Re: 'Al-Qaeda ringleader' wins appeal against deportation
     Reply #1 - May 18, 2010, 01:15 PM

    Although it pains me to say it, he should not be deported.

    If he is guilty then he should spend the rest of his natural life in prison. However if we get into the habit of making exceptions and deporting people to countries where they will be tortured and/or killed we run the risk of eventually sending an innocent person - and that is simply unacceptable.

    But why am I not surprised that someone who lives in a country which protects them from torture/death decides to hate the very country that protects them and decide to kill its innocent citizens?

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: 'Al-Qaeda ringleader' wins appeal against deportation
     Reply #2 - May 18, 2010, 01:18 PM

    But why am I not surprised that someone who lives in a country which protects them from torture/death decides to hate the very country that protects them and decide to kill its innocent citizens?


    I know! And I hate the hypocrisy and cynicsim of these guys who happily use and demand freedoms they spit on.
  • Re: 'Al-Qaeda ringleader' wins appeal against deportation
     Reply #3 - May 18, 2010, 01:21 PM

    I know! And I hate the hypocrisy and cynicsim of these guys who happily use and demand freedoms they spit on.


    I know he's a twat and therefore his opinion does not matter, but your comment reminded me of Choudry. I remember him sitting on TV telling us how amoral we are in the UK and how Islam will solve all of our problems, and then when asked if he receives state benefits he basically said "Yes, if they are on offer I will take them".

    This isn't a word I use often, but some people are cunts.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: 'Al-Qaeda ringleader' wins appeal against deportation
     Reply #4 - May 18, 2010, 01:26 PM

    Why don't people call him out on his BS more often? I never thought Brittish people lacked a backbone what with the imperalising the rest of the world.
  • Re: 'Al-Qaeda ringleader' wins appeal against deportation
     Reply #5 - May 18, 2010, 01:28 PM

    some people are cunts.


    Yep - total cunt.

  • Re: 'Al-Qaeda ringleader' wins appeal against deportation
     Reply #6 - May 18, 2010, 01:29 PM

    Because the world belongs to Allah and they are doing Allah's work in conspiring against these secular laws that protect them after they've plotted to slaughter innocents. They don't have a rational mentality. It is entirely in keeping with their way of looking at humanity and the world.






    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: 'Al-Qaeda ringleader' wins appeal against deportation
     Reply #7 - May 18, 2010, 01:30 PM

    Why don't people call him out on his BS more often? I never thought Brittish people lacked a backbone what with the imperalising the rest of the world.


    It's not a question of backbone - he has the freedom to talk shit - that shows the strength of our values and the weakness of his - but frankly he is walking a tight-rope and as soon as he goes to far I will be happy to kick the bastard into jail myself!
  • Re: 'Al-Qaeda ringleader' wins appeal against deportation
     Reply #8 - May 18, 2010, 01:36 PM

    I think I might praise Allah if that happens.
  • Re: 'Al-Qaeda ringleader' wins appeal against deportation
     Reply #9 - May 18, 2010, 02:37 PM

    However if we get into the habit of making exceptions and deporting people to countries where they will be tortured and/or killed we run the risk of eventually sending an innocent person - and that is simply unacceptable.


    I agree in principle. But I question the possibility of it becoming a habit. It's a tough one.

    The evidence is clear for this case as far as I can see. Tax payers should not be paying for him to live here.

    This is such a win for terrorists . "Oh, I can try and blow up people but if I get caught I won't be sent back to my own country's punishment".
  • Re: 'Al-Qaeda ringleader' wins appeal against deportation
     Reply #10 - May 18, 2010, 02:44 PM

    I agree in principle. But I question the possibility of it becoming a habit. It's a tough one.

    The evidence is clear for this case as far as I can see. Tax payers should not be paying for him to live here.

    This is such a win for terrorists . "Oh, I can try and blow up people but if I get caught I won't be sent back to my own country's punishment".


    No, I said he should be locked up for life. I am talking about a room large enough only for a bed, basin, and toilet. No time out of your cell, natural life in a concrete box.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: 'Al-Qaeda ringleader' wins appeal against deportation
     Reply #11 - May 18, 2010, 03:13 PM

    It's not so much this isolated case that worries me, it is the message to wannabe terrorists. We have the right to protect ourselves. Even if it means using our strongest weapons such as deportation I think.
  • Re: 'Al-Qaeda ringleader' wins appeal against deportation
     Reply #12 - May 18, 2010, 03:15 PM

    If he wants Jannah so bad why not asked to be deported? His country will execute him and he will go to heaven, that is what he wants is it not? Or wait, can it be that his natural instincts kick in and he wants to preserve his life and deep down he doesn't really buy his own bullshit? Hmm...
  • Re: 'Al-Qaeda ringleader' wins appeal against deportation
     Reply #13 - May 18, 2010, 03:16 PM

    Wait, did they actually have evidence that incriminated and prove that this fellow was a terror leader?  Huh?

    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: 'Al-Qaeda ringleader' wins appeal against deportation
     Reply #14 - May 18, 2010, 03:18 PM

    It's not so much this isolated case that worries me, it is the message to wannabe terrorists. We have the right to protect ourselves. Even if it means using our strongest weapons such as deportation I think.


    Imprison the guilty and they will be out of the way.
    Imprison the innocent and you can later release them.
    Deport the innocent and there is nothing you can do about it, ever.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: 'Al-Qaeda ringleader' wins appeal against deportation
     Reply #15 - May 18, 2010, 03:36 PM

    Wait, did they actually have evidence that incriminated and prove that this fellow was a terror leader?  Huh?


    It appears some of the evidence isn't allowed to be disclosed. They are in the strange position of not being convicted yet regarded as a threat, but cannot now be deported. Weird.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8688586.stm
  • Re: 'Al-Qaeda ringleader' wins appeal against deportation
     Reply #16 - May 18, 2010, 03:38 PM


    If the judge is convinced that he is an al Qaeda operative based on what cannot be disclosed then he is one. The judges don't hesitate to release in the eventuality of there being no evidence.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: 'Al-Qaeda ringleader' wins appeal against deportation
     Reply #17 - May 18, 2010, 04:22 PM

    ...or maybe there is none given how the 10 seemingly random Pakistani students were arrested, detained, cleared from all charges, and eventually deported without ANY shred of evidence or explanation given by the authorities. It was a slight embarrassment for Gordon Brown in the end.

    Methinks the judge is merely playing along to avoid completely (and officially) exposing the MI5 fuck-up in this weird and (deliberately) unexplained case.

    Makes sense, ahm jus' sayin'  whistling2

    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: 'Al-Qaeda ringleader' wins appeal against deportation
     Reply #18 - May 18, 2010, 04:29 PM

    The judges wouldn't make a statement about being convinced he is an al Qaeda operative if he wasn't. This has to do with the lack of responsiveness in the British judicial system to the particular issues these cases bring up. British judges are cussed about these things and don't give a shit about political embarassment, least of all to the last prime minister.




    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: 'Al-Qaeda ringleader' wins appeal against deportation
     Reply #19 - May 18, 2010, 04:36 PM

    Funny enough, my parents often say I should thank god that I was already back in Pakistan (and missed out on the chance of getting a work permit because of lack of finances) when these arrests took place otherwise maybe I would have been arrested.  wacko

    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: 'Al-Qaeda ringleader' wins appeal against deportation
     Reply #20 - May 18, 2010, 07:41 PM

    'Al-Qaeda ringleader' wins appeal against deportation

    (Clicky for piccy!)
    The Home Secretary, Theresa May, said she would not be appealing against the ruling, handed down by the Special Immigration Appeals Commission.

    She said: "We are disappointed that the court has ruled that Abid Naseer and Ahmad Faraz Khan should not be deported to Pakistan, which we were seeking on national security grounds.
    "As the court agreed, they are a security risk to the UK. We are now taking all possible measures to ensure they do not engage in terrorist activity."


    I have said it before, I simply cannot understand why it is more important to protect foreign nationals than your own citizens.

    I wonder how that judge will feel if at a future date they manage to blow up a bus or a subway. At the very least, they should be kept in a detention camp untill they possibly choose to leave the country voluntarily.

    Anyway, has anything been done to find out what has happened to those who have already left ? Have they been arrested, tortured, killed ?

    Like a compass needle that points north, a man?s accusing finger always finds a woman. Always.

    Khaled Hosseini - A thousand splendid suns.
  • Re: 'Al-Qaeda ringleader' wins appeal against deportation
     Reply #21 - May 18, 2010, 07:44 PM

    Paloma maybe if you had been an immigrant, you would have looked at it differently. Or at least more broadly. No offense meant btw

    my bad this is not directly related to this article or issue but another similar discussion you had with Q-Man
  • Re: 'Al-Qaeda ringleader' wins appeal against deportation
     Reply #22 - May 18, 2010, 07:53 PM

    I have said it before, I simply cannot understand why it is more important to protect foreign nationals than your own citizens.


    An irrelevant dichotomy based on false presuppositions. In other words-- bullshit. The court is not weighing the importance of "protecting foreign nationals" over "protecting its own citizens", it is making a decision in what it believes to be the interests of justice.

    Let's be clear on a couple of things:

    1. Obviously the state did not have enough evidence to convict this person in court, or else they would have prosecuted a criminal case against him. In a common law judicial system, this means he is presumed innocent.

    2. The court did feel, however, there was compelling evidence to suggest there was an unacceptable risk that this man would be tortured or killed by Pakistani authorities.

    So, if you object to what the court did, you are essentially saying it's a-okay to deport a person who has not been convicted of any crime whatsoever (and is thus presumed innocent under the law) to a country where he is likely to be tortured and/or killed. This is manifestly unjust and anybody who takes this position should be ashamed of their callousness, amorality, and cowardice.

    You can live in a free country, or you can live under a nanny-state/police state that protects you from "all the bad people" by dispensing with due process and lumping the innocent in with the guilty. But you can't have both. Truly amazing how many people living in supposedly "free countries" don't, can't or won't understand that.

    fuck you
  • Re: 'Al-Qaeda ringleader' wins appeal against deportation
     Reply #23 - May 18, 2010, 08:23 PM

    I have said it before, I simply cannot understand why it is more important to protect foreign nationals than your own citizens.


    There is an argument that since Islamists neither believe in Western rights and yet abuse them, they should not be given the same rights as people of the West who have earned (and fought for) them.
  • Re: 'Al-Qaeda ringleader' wins appeal against deportation
     Reply #24 - May 18, 2010, 08:24 PM

    Spoken like a man who doesn't understand the concept of universal, natural rights.

    fuck you
  • Re: 'Al-Qaeda ringleader' wins appeal against deportation
     Reply #25 - May 18, 2010, 08:28 PM


    Q, you will concede, at least, the irony of a man conspiring to slaughter hundreds of innocent children, women and men in Manchester, being protected by the institutions of the society he sought to murder indiscriminately members of from possible harm due to deportation to his home country?

    I'd say thats one to ponder on, for sure.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: 'Al-Qaeda ringleader' wins appeal against deportation
     Reply #26 - May 18, 2010, 08:34 PM

    The irony is based on a false dichotomy.  The man was not proven to be guilty, thus tehnically he is still innocent.

    So is there any irony in the UK government sending an innocent man to a possible death in Pakistan?  I dont think so.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: 'Al-Qaeda ringleader' wins appeal against deportation
     Reply #27 - May 18, 2010, 08:37 PM

    I concede nothing. He has not been convicted of any crime (other than immigration violations), therefore he is innocent, both by my reckoning and the reckoning of UK and US jurisprudential standards.

    Maybe you believe the cops every time they say someone is a terrorist or guilty of some crime, but I don't. That must be decided by a criminal court, and even they have been known to wrongfully convict. I still think Leonard Peltier is innocent, and it's pretty clear the Haymarket Martyrs were too (also accused of terrorism, convicted without proof and executed). But a conviction is the minimum standard of proof I accept in most cases.

    Just because the media credulously reports what the cops and authorities tell them (very rarely do they independently investigate such claims), doesn't mean I have to accept it as truth.

    EDIT: Looks like Islame beat me to it-- good call Islame.

    fuck you
  • Re: 'Al-Qaeda ringleader' wins appeal against deportation
     Reply #28 - May 18, 2010, 09:08 PM

    The irony is based on a false dichotomy.  The man was not proven to be guilty, thus tehnically he is still innocent.

    So is there any irony in the UK government sending an innocent man to a possible death in Pakistan?  I dont think so.


    OK. Considering that the presiding judge considers the man to be a terrorist operative, and there are technical reasons why a conviction couldn't be made, do you see a potential irony in this situation? Because I do.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: 'Al-Qaeda ringleader' wins appeal against deportation
     Reply #29 - May 18, 2010, 09:15 PM

    Just because the media credulously reports what the cops and authorities tell them (very rarely do they independently investigate such claims), doesn't mean I have to accept it as truth.


    Of course - but that doesn't mean there isn't substance to it either. The fact is that this man is considered to be a threat to national security, not just by the judges, and the independent reviewer of evidence, and the Home Secretary. Now you can suggest this is a conspiracy and a grave injustice is being done to the man and so on and so on. At the same time, at the very least, you can imagine a scenario in which all these bodies and institutions, tasked with preventing terrorist attacks, are not making this up - that he was involved in activities that posed a threat to the lives of people in Manchester, and given that, there's just a teensy-weensy bit of irony (if you accept that possibility that he is a naughty boy!) in a society taking care of the welfare of those who wish it the most violent harm.

    If not, then I agree, nothing to meditate on at all.




    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

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