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Theme Changer

 Topic: Hi every one

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  • Re: Hi every one
     Reply #30 - May 16, 2010, 12:02 PM
    Quote from: Matt2842 on May 16, 2010, 11:49 AM
    Billy
    This is how I look at it, and it is my opinion.
    If some one read koran and undrestand it and know islam for what it is and remain muslim, he or she is living in ignorance, so would you really let an ignorant person to govern you?


    Will you think about what we have said in response to you? After all, you are at a forum in which there are aboslutely no delusions about Islam at all. So surely our words on this must have some weight for you? Especially about the difference between the individual and the collective.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on April 30, 2011, 11:33 PM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Hi every one
     Reply #31 - May 16, 2010, 12:11 PM
    Quote
    Well you say YES to my questions, but I think not.


    If you seriously think you live in a country where you are not allowed to openly criticise Islam and muslims, then you are flat out delusional.


    Quote
    I'm not sure if you have lived on the state govened by islamic laws. And I've seen what islam and muslims can do to the secular society first hand, so pardon me if I write my opinion on haveing a muslim minister in government.


    You seem both confused and paranoid.  Iran did not turn into a theocracy because muslims infiltrated a secular democracy, but because Islamists hijacked a revolution against the Shah's dictatorship - Islam became the focal point of popular discontent.  The UK is in no danger of succumbing to the same thing, regardless of how many muslim cabinet ministers there are.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Hi every one
     Reply #32 - May 16, 2010, 12:24 PM
    Welcome

    Quote from: Matt2842 on May 16, 2010, 11:49 AM
    Billy
    This is how I look at it, and it is my opinion.
    If some one read koran and undrestand it and know islam for what it is and remain muslim, he or she is living in ignorance, so would you really let an ignorant person to govern you?

    What about Christians? surely you are aware there some vile stuff in the Bible. Should we allow Catholics to be ministers? after all the Pope says that AIDS is better than using condoms and homosexuality is a sin.
  • Re: Hi every one
     Reply #33 - May 16, 2010, 12:27 PM
    clearly you need to catch up on your Bible reading, IA... it's full of precious treasures. parrot
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hi every one
     Reply #34 - May 16, 2010, 12:28 PM
    Dear Hassan
    I never said I love western democratic system, which I don't, and I'm not a fan of politics either. What I'm saying is I have seen what Islam can do to a society first hand, and I have seen it effects on day to day life of an individual, which I don't think you have seen.
    I personal don't give freedom to a person or idealogy or religion, when I don't get the same sort of freedom back.
  • Re: Hi every one
     Reply #35 - May 16, 2010, 12:29 PM
    For Communist, read Muslim - in the following sketch  grin12

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGv2wqJJmbc&feature=fvw
  • Re: Hi every one
     Reply #36 - May 16, 2010, 12:36 PM
    Quote from: Matt2842 on May 16, 2010, 12:28 PM
    I personal don't give freedom to a person or idealogy or religion, when I don't get the same sort of freedom back.


    No one's asking you to.

    But you appear to lump all Muslims as Islamists who don't believe in freedom, secularism and democracy.
  • Re: Hi every one
     Reply #37 - May 16, 2010, 12:38 PM
    Cheetah
    Did I say UK is going through the same fate as Iran did? NO what I am saying is be very careful what you are doing.
     And to AI and Hassan:

    I am an atheist, so I don't give credit to any religion regardless, Christianity is not threatening humanity and human rights. Islam does.
  • Re: Hi every one
     Reply #38 - May 16, 2010, 12:41 PM
    Quote
    Cheetah
    Did I say UK is going through the same fate as Iran did? NO what I am say in is be very careful what are you doing.


    Yes, earlier in the thread you stated that a muslim cabinet minister was the first step on a slippery slope towards the Islamic Republic of Britain.  Which is paranoid bollocks, Britain is in no danger of Islamification regardless of mulims in the cabinet.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Hi every one
     Reply #39 - May 16, 2010, 12:47 PM
    Isn't it what Anjom chaudry or one of the islamists said when he said one day we have a islamic flag on number 10?
  • Re: Hi every one
     Reply #40 - May 16, 2010, 12:49 PM
    Yes, probably.  But given that Anjem Choudary is full of shit, I don't see how that helps your case.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Hi every one
     Reply #41 - May 16, 2010, 12:52 PM
    Quote from: Matt2842 on May 16, 2010, 12:38 PM
    Christianity is not threatening humanity and human rights. Islam does.


    Yep, a familiar excuse from those who want to justify their double standards.

    Sorry, but as long as someone believes and upholds secular democracy then they must be able to participate on all levels of society - regardless of their religious background.

    Defending Western Secular Democracy is about staying true to it's principles - not abandoning them.
  • Re: Hi every one
     Reply #42 - May 16, 2010, 12:55 PM
    Quote from: Matt2842 on May 16, 2010, 12:47 PM
    Isn't it what Anjom chaudry or one of the islamists said when he said one day we have a islamic flag on number 10?


    Come back when Anjem gets elected to anything other than spokesperson for a tiny bunch of Islamist misfits. Then you can talk about Islamists entering Government.

    But don't hold your breath, coz it aint happening this side of Kingdom Come!
  • Re: Hi every one
     Reply #43 - May 16, 2010, 01:12 PM
    Cheetah
    Anjom chaudary is full of nonesense no doubt about it, but there are many more people like him and they have many more followers, and they all are enjoying the benefit of what UK has to offer, I as an individual certainly don't want to give them any ground or any idea to provoke them to do more damage more then they already have.

    And dear Hassan
    There is no double standard, it is customary as a guest to follow the host's roll's. This is an christian country and should be governed by one regardless. I don't remember if any christian or foreign background person has ever been a minister in Iranian government. or atleast no one I know about.
  • Re: Hi every one
     Reply #44 - May 16, 2010, 01:18 PM
    Quote
    Cheetah
    Anjom chaudary is full of nonesense no doubt about it, but there are many more people like him and they have many more followers, and they all are enjoying the benefit of what UK has to offer, I as an individual certainly don't want to give them any ground or any idea to provoke them to do more damage more then they already have.


    Choudary is an insignificant blowhard followed by a small collection of weak minded misfits.  He is no threat to anything in the UK, and the only damage he is doing is to his fellow muslims.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Hi every one
     Reply #45 - May 16, 2010, 01:28 PM
    Quote from: Matt2842 on May 16, 2010, 01:12 PM
    And dear Hassan
    There is no double standard, it is customary as a guest to follow the host's roll's. This is an christian country and should be governed by one regardless. I don't remember if any christian or foreign background person has ever been a minister in Iranian government. or atleast no one I know about.


    LOL... please don't teach me about my country. This may be a country with historical links to Christianity, but it is certainly not a "Christian" country in any political sense. This country is a Secular country. The British people will never allow any religion to gain power over government.

    And can't you see the irony in your saying that no Christian or foreigner has been appointed to a Govt post in Iran or other Muslim countries?

    And you want us to imitate the Islamists? lol


  • Re: Hi every one
     Reply #46 - May 16, 2010, 02:25 PM
    Dear original poster,

    Whilst I agree with you that Islam at the current time is a threat to "Western values", I do not think that the UK is at threat of being taken over as an Islamic caliphate. Many Muslims are in full agreement with secular democracy, see Iran (greens) and Pakistan, fighting AGAINST extremists. True I do think that the UK and other Govts. need to be less multiculturalist in its policy aims, this in order to to a degree force integration of people. I think that the Conservatives support of religious courts is very bad, hopefully this can eventually be put to bed through movements such as "One Law For All" from our very own Maryam Namazie (very good lady). I seriously doubt though that the UK is going to be a Islamic island in the West.

    Please please please do not put all Muslims into this extremist role, I truly believe that Islam is going through it's reformation at the present time.

    From Lilyesque
  • Re: Hi every one
     Reply #47 - May 16, 2010, 02:47 PM
    Very well put there Lilyesque.
    Hear ye -->> DONATE TO CEMB

    Relativism | Cognitive dissonance | Cognitive biases | Memeplex | Consequentialism
  • Re: Hi every one
     Reply #48 - May 16, 2010, 03:06 PM
    Quote from: Matt2842 on May 16, 2010, 01:12 PM
    And dear Hassan
    There is no double standard, it is customary as a guest to follow the host's roll's. This is an christian country and should be governed by one regardless. I don't remember if any christian or foreign background person has ever been a minister in Iranian government. or atleast no one I know about.

    Wait so there has been no non-Muslim ministers in Muslim countries? Are you sure?
    Let me start with my country, Iraq, which is far from being the liberal tolerant society that the UK is. It has had Jewish, Christian, and Sabaen Ministers and officials throughout history.
    I'll give you some examples for now:
    Eskell Sassoon: The founder of the Iraqi Parliament, Jewish.
    Tariq Aziz: One of Saddam's closest advisers and held various ministries, Christian.
    Minster of Health before the 03 war, Dr. Omeed Midhat, Christian.
    The finance minister under Faisal II was Jewish. Forgot his name.


    Most importantly, even if there has been no no-Muslim ministers in Muslim countries, why should the UK emulate?
  • Re: Hi every one
     Reply #49 - May 16, 2010, 03:12 PM
    Quote from: HighOctane on May 16, 2010, 02:47 PM
    Very well put there Lilyesque.


    Thankyou very much sir.
  • Re: Hi every one
     Reply #50 - May 16, 2010, 03:36 PM
    Dear Lilyesque
    I am not saying that UK will be islamic island, it won't, I am saying becarful which path you choosing to follow.
    Islam is an opportunistic idealogy, it will take every opportunity it gets to succeed.
    Iranian green movement leading by Mr Mousavi doesn't want secularism, they don't want a revolution, he wants to keep and follow the idealogy of Islamic Republic of Iran, as a matter of fact he is and have been one of the key members of Iranian revolution policy makers, he doesn't want to change the Iranian neuclear activities nor he wants to change any key policies of the Iranian islamic republic. It is simply a power strugle between two islamic parties in Iran.
    Muslims or shall I say some muslims might be going through reformation, I agree, but islam won't, koran won't.
    You can not change the extreme teachings in islam and extreme verses in koran, and there always will be some one to practice those extreme teaching to the extreme levels. Why should we give them the opportunity to do so?
  • Re: Hi every one
     Reply #51 - May 16, 2010, 03:39 PM
    Iraqi atheist

    My dear if you could read my post, I was talking about Iranian govt I am not intrested about Iraqi govt.

    Regards
  • Re: Hi every one
     Reply #52 - May 16, 2010, 04:21 PM
    Quote from: Matt2842 on May 16, 2010, 03:39 PM
    Iraqi atheist

    My dear if you could read my post, I was talking about Iranian govt I am not intrested about Iraqi govt.

    Regards

    I read all your posts very carefully. You said that since the UK is a "Christian" country, there should be no Muslim ministers in the UK government. Why is that? Iraq is a Muslim country and it has had non-Muslim ministers. Or do you think only Muslims should be ministers in the Iraqi government?
    More importantly, why do you compare the UK to Iran? why should the UK emulate Iran?
  • Re: Hi every one
     Reply #53 - May 16, 2010, 04:32 PM
    Welcome Matt.

    Please do remember, if you don't like Islam that is no reason to dislike Muslims.

    I believe that law should be blind, if it must mention a specific group of people then it is biased. For example if it says "ethnic minority" then it is biased, if it says "religious belief" then it is biased. We should have one law for all, and that law should be ignorant of the background/beliefs of the people it controls.

    Muslims in parliament? Meh.
    Muslim state? On your fucking bike mate Smiley

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Hi every one
     Reply #54 - May 16, 2010, 05:20 PM
    Iraqi atheist
    the reason I compared UK to Iran is because I Come from Iran and I know Iranian government, I don't know Iraqi's and iraqi government, so I don't want to make any assertion.

    Rationaliser
    It is true that I don't like islam, but I don't mind muslims as long as they don't impose their idea and their belief on me, I just don't like what they've become under the influence of islam.

    Most of muslims in the UK don't even vote, it seems they're not intrested in UK's welfare.
    Having an MP to present them in house of commons is totaly fine with me, but the fact is that muslim is and always will be under the influence of koran and islam regardless of their thoughts and education, so why do we want one in the government.
    And believe you me, I always have my bike handy and ready to ride, when it comes to islamic state.

  • Re: Hi every one
     Reply #55 - May 16, 2010, 06:29 PM
    Quote from: Matt2842 on May 16, 2010, 05:20 PM
    Iraqi atheist
    the reason I compared UK to Iran is because I Come from Iran and I know Iranian government, I don't know Iraqi's and iraqi government, so I don't want to make any assertion.

    Again you misunderstood my point. So let's forget about Iraq and please answer this question. Do you believe we should not allow Muslims to become ministers in the UK government?


    Quote from: Matt2842 on May 16, 2010, 05:20 PM
    Rationaliser
    It is true that I don't like islam, but I don't mind muslims as long as they don't impose their idea and their belief on me, I just don't like what they've become under the influence of islam.

    Most of muslims in the UK don't even vote, it seems they're not intrested in UK's welfare.
    Having an MP to present them in house of commons is totaly fine with me, but the fact is that muslim is and always will be under the influence of koran and islam regardless of their thoughts and education, so why do we want one in the government.
    And believe you me, I always have my bike handy and ready to ride, when it comes to islamic state.

    What fact? you mean every Muslim believes in all what the Quran says 100%? how do you know that?
  • Re: Hi every one
     Reply #56 - May 16, 2010, 06:41 PM
    Quote from: Matt2842 on May 16, 2010, 05:20 PM
    Most of muslims in the UK don't even vote, it seems they're not intrested in UK's welfare.

    Evidence?

    Quote from: Matt2842 on May 16, 2010, 05:20 PM
    Having an MP to present them in house of commons is totaly fine with me, but the fact is that muslim is and always will be under the influence of koran and islam regardless of their thoughts and education, so why do we want one in the government.

    Apparently cannabis can induce paranoia if smoked regularly.
    Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
    Propagandhi - Failed States
  • Re: Hi every one
     Reply #57 - May 17, 2010, 04:18 AM
    Quote from: Matt2842 on May 16, 2010, 05:20 PM
    but the fact is that muslim is and always will be under the influence of koran and islam regardless of their thoughts and education


    Maybe that is the case in Iran but it's not here in the UK. In the UK we have what I call "cultural Muslims", they believe they are Muslims because their parents' told them so since they were children, but many haven't even read the Quran.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Hi every one
     Reply #58 - May 17, 2010, 07:06 AM
    Quote from: Matt2842 on May 16, 2010, 12:28 PM
    I never said I love western democratic system, which I don't


    Why not?
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on April 30, 2011, 11:33 PM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Hi every one
     Reply #59 - May 17, 2010, 07:32 AM
    Quote from: Cheetah on May 16, 2010, 01:18 PM
    Choudary is an insignificant blowhard followed by a small collection of weak minded misfits.  He is no threat to anything in the UK, and the only damage he is doing is to his fellow muslims.

    +1
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