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 Topic: Allah continuously maintains the world

 (Read 5967 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Allah continuously maintains the world
     OP - May 11, 2010, 09:43 PM

    Is there such a thing in the Quran? That if God let go the world would collapse? That he controls the weather bit by bit? We know he causes earthquakes but I was wondering about other things like keeping the earth afloat or something. It would reflect a Personal God and lack of scientific understanding of natural causes.
  • Re: Allah continuously maintains the world
     Reply #1 - May 11, 2010, 09:55 PM

    The Qur'an and Hadith are filled with verses about how God sustains, cherishes and controls everything.  The clouds and the wind and sunrise/sunset etc are all examples.  But of course we now know the science behind the wind and clouds etc.

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

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  • Re: Allah continuously maintains the world
     Reply #2 - May 11, 2010, 10:11 PM

    [35:41]
    Lo! Allah graspeth the heavens and the earth that they deviate not, and if they were to deviate there is not one that could grasp them after Him. Lo! He is ever Clement, Forgiving.

    [30:40]
    Allah is He Who created you and then sustained you, then causeth you to die, then giveth life to you again. Is there any of your (so- called) partners (of Allah) that doeth aught of that ? Praised and Exalted be He above what they associate (with Him)!

    There are others, but you get the idea.
  • Re: Allah continuously maintains the world
     Reply #3 - May 11, 2010, 10:54 PM

    Is there such a thing in the Quran? That if God let go the world would collapse? That he controls the weather bit by bit? We know he causes earthquakes but I was wondering about other things like keeping the earth afloat or something. It would reflect a Personal God and lack of scientific understanding of natural causes.

    Not sure if it necesaarily does, as they could argue that he controls everything / makes sure those laws are obeyed /was the one that made those laws to be followed

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  • Re: Allah continuously maintains the world
     Reply #4 - May 11, 2010, 10:57 PM

    [35:41]
    Lo! Allah graspeth the heavens and the earth that they deviate not, and if they were to deviate there is not one that could grasp them after Him. Lo! He is ever Clement, Forgiving.

    [30:40]
    Allah is He Who created you and then sustained you, then causeth you to die, then giveth life to you again. Is there any of your (so- called) partners (of Allah) that doeth aught of that ? Praised and Exalted be He above what they associate (with Him)!

    There are others, but you get the idea.


    Afro

    ...
  • Re: Allah continuously maintains the world
     Reply #5 - May 12, 2010, 07:31 AM

    OK thanks guys.

    Islame no I think it is more direct, that he activly works at it, maybe I read it wrong. Fuck, I think I might have to read the Quran again, third time this time.
  • Re: Allah continuously maintains the world
     Reply #6 - May 12, 2010, 11:20 AM

    everything is dependent on somthing.  as muslims we believe that Allah(swt) controls everything, how he controls this is ghaib(unseen)

    Allah has knowledge of everything also. 

    There is no God but Allah(swt) and Muhammad(saw) is his messenger.
  • Re: Allah continuously maintains the world
     Reply #7 - May 12, 2010, 11:30 AM

    Allah has a lot of dirty secrets.  grin12

    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: Allah continuously maintains the world
     Reply #8 - May 12, 2010, 11:37 AM

    everything is dependent on somthing.  as muslims we believe that Allah(swt) controls everything, how he controls this is ghaib(unseen)

    Allah has knowledge of everything also. 

    Why believe in your religion's "unseen" claims and disbelieve in other religion's "unseen" claims?  There have been several thousand religions throughout history (most of them are extinct), and all these had their own "unseen" claims.  Humans have a tendency to invoke a supernatural agent when they don't understand something, but in today's age of science and technology, you should be able to see through all these claims.

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: Allah continuously maintains the world
     Reply #9 - May 12, 2010, 11:43 AM

    everything is dependent on somthing.  as muslims we believe that Allah(swt) controls everything, how he controls this is ghaib(unseen)

    Allah has knowledge of everything also.  


    Are you saying Allah also depend on something, your information  is nothing new dear, most of us once were a muslim
  • Re: Allah continuously maintains the world
     Reply #10 - May 12, 2010, 11:51 AM

    Is there such a thing in the Quran? That if God let go the world would collapse? That he controls the weather bit by bit? We know he causes earthquakes but I was wondering about other things like keeping the earth afloat or something. It would reflect a Personal God and lack of scientific understanding of natural causes.


    This verse popped into my mind:

    أَلَمْ يَرَوْا إِلَى الطَّيْرِ مُسَخَّرَاتٍ فِي جَوِّ السَّمَاءِ مَا يُمْسِكُهُنَّ إِلَّا اللَّهُ إِنَّ فِي ذَلِكَ لَآيَاتٍ لِقَوْمٍ يُؤْمِنُونَ

    "Do they not look at the birds, held poised in the air of the sky? Nothing holds them up but Allah. Verily in this are signs for those who believe." (16:79)
  • Re: Allah continuously maintains the world
     Reply #11 - May 12, 2010, 11:53 AM

    Clearly Allah's understanding of Physics was less scientific and more self-praise egotistic  whistling2

    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: Allah continuously maintains the world
     Reply #12 - May 12, 2010, 12:09 PM

    Why believe in your religion's "unseen" claims and disbelieve in other religion's "unseen" claims?  There have been several thousand religions throughout history (most of them are extinct), and all these had their own "unseen" claims.  Humans have a tendency to invoke a supernatural agent when they don't understand something, but in today's age of science and technology, you should be able to see through all these claims.




    i think you have a similar unseen claim as i do, science is a tool, to that which u fall back on, and have turned this in to your religion.  there are things that as a limited human i nor any other human can explain.

    however before this you think about the universe, and i belive that we as humans can determine that there is a creator of the universe. science is a discovery of the rules that this creator has put into the universe. but science cannot prove many things.  and to have such faith is a tool is really diabolical. 


    There is no God but Allah(swt) and Muhammad(saw) is his messenger.
  • Re: Allah continuously maintains the world
     Reply #13 - May 12, 2010, 12:10 PM

    No Allah isnt de[pendent on anything, he is beyond this universe.

    There is no God but Allah(swt) and Muhammad(saw) is his messenger.
  • Re: Allah continuously maintains the world
     Reply #14 - May 12, 2010, 12:13 PM

    Wha...?

    I certainly dont worship science. Im skeptic about each new discovery.

    Besides, only because you see a creator, others dont have to do the same.

    "We are never deceived, we deceive ourselves." - from Goethes Faust
    "Only the wisest and the stupidest men never change." - Confuzios
    "there is no religion of peace, only people who are peaceful while being religious."
  • Re: Allah continuously maintains the world
     Reply #15 - May 12, 2010, 12:58 PM

    No Allah isnt de[pendent on anything, he is beyond this universe.


    but you said everything  Huh?
    okay, let's say there's a God, why you choose Islam over any other religion, every religion for sure will claim that theirs is the truest
  • Re: Allah continuously maintains the world
     Reply #16 - May 12, 2010, 01:03 PM

    but you said everything 
    okay, let's say there's a God, why you choose Islam over any other religion, every religion for sure will claim that theirs is the truest

    virav5- i did say eveything, but in the context of my reality, then it is everything, i do not know what is beyond this reality. 

    before i carry on witht he discussion, i would like to ask if you belive in a force(god) or are you an atheist?

    There is no God but Allah(swt) and Muhammad(saw) is his messenger.
  • Re: Allah continuously maintains the world
     Reply #17 - May 12, 2010, 01:32 PM

    virav5- i did say eveything, but in the context of my reality, then it is everything, i do not know what is beyond this reality.  

    before i carry on witht he discussion, i would like to ask if you belive in a force(god) or are you an atheist?


    To be honest, I don't have a sufficient knowledge to claim whether there isn't any God or if there's a God, I have doubts in both claims.
  • Re: Allah continuously maintains the world
     Reply #18 - May 12, 2010, 01:38 PM

    virav- do you exist, or r u just a figment of someone imagination?

    There is no God but Allah(swt) and Muhammad(saw) is his messenger.
  • Re: Allah continuously maintains the world
     Reply #19 - May 12, 2010, 01:42 PM

    To be honest, I don't have a sufficient knowledge to claim whether there isn't any God or if there's a God, I have doubts in both claims.


    Vira, that's why Atheism isn't a position that makes the claim. "There isn't a God."

    However, people who have faith and believe in God say. "There is a God." --That is the claim.
    Atheism isn't saying "there isn't a God." It's a response to the claim that there is one. I.e, you made the claim there is a God and I don't believe in that claim because of lack of evidence. This is why evidence isn't needed to justify Atheism but is needed to justify non-agnostic theism.

    "If intelligence is feminine... I would want that mine would, in a resolute movement, come to resemble an impious woman."
  • Re: Allah continuously maintains the world
     Reply #20 - May 12, 2010, 01:46 PM

    No Allah isnt de[pendent on anything, he is beyond this universe.

    And exactly how do you know this?

    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Allah continuously maintains the world
     Reply #21 - May 12, 2010, 01:51 PM

    Vira, that's why Atheism isn't a position that makes the claim. "There isn't a God."

    However, people who have faith and believe in God say. "There is a God." --That is the claim.
    Atheism isn't saying "there isn't a God." It's a response to the claim that there is one. I.e, you made the claim there is a God and I don't believe in that claim because of lack of evidence. This is why evidence isn't needed to justify Atheism but is needed to justify non-agnostic theism.


    i think you need to check your definitions

    a·the·ism   /ˈeɪθiˌɪzəm/  Show Spelled[ey-thee-iz-uhm]  Show IPA
    –noun
    1.the doctrine or belief that there is no god.
    2.disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

    the proof in the existence of a creator is a rational thing.

    There is no God but Allah(swt) and Muhammad(saw) is his messenger.
  • Re: Allah continuously maintains the world
     Reply #22 - May 12, 2010, 01:51 PM

    Belief beggars reason.
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       Re: Allah continuously maintains the world
    « Reply #20 on: Today at 14:46:03 » 

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote from: JohnnyKhan on Today at 13:10:35
    No Allah isnt de[pendent on anything, he is beyond this universe.


    And exactly how do you know this?


    cos richard dawkins told me!!

    There is no God but Allah(swt) and Muhammad(saw) is his messenger.
  • Re: Allah continuously maintains the world
     Reply #23 - May 12, 2010, 02:02 PM

    In a dream, or personally?

    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Allah continuously maintains the world
     Reply #24 - May 12, 2010, 02:06 PM

    JohnnyKhan, could you please make the effort and understand the quoting function? Thanks.

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  • Re: Allah continuously maintains the world
     Reply #25 - May 12, 2010, 02:06 PM

    i think you need to check your definitions

    a·the·ism   /ˈeɪθiˌɪzəm/  Show Spelled[ey-thee-iz-uhm]  Show IPA
    –noun
    1.the doctrine or belief that there is no god.
    2.disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

    the proof in the existence of a creator is a rational thing.


    where does it say in that, that the assertion "There is no God." Is being made?

    Disbelief and the belief there is no God is different from saying. "There is no God. That's it."

    "If intelligence is feminine... I would want that mine would, in a resolute movement, come to resemble an impious woman."
  • Re: Allah continuously maintains the world
     Reply #26 - May 12, 2010, 02:25 PM

    I won't debate anyone about the definition of atheist, I've told you that I put myself in that position, that I'm not sure whether there's a God or not. Of course in my point of view I'm exist, but I don't see how it's relevant to our discussion.
  • Re: Allah continuously maintains the world
     Reply #27 - May 12, 2010, 02:44 PM

    i think you need to check your definitions

    a·the·ism   /ˈeɪθiˌɪzəm/  Show Spelled[ey-thee-iz-uhm]  Show IPA
    –noun
    1.the doctrine or belief that there is no god.
    2.disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

    the proof in the existence of a creator is a rational thing.


    Atheism isn't saying "there is no god", it's saying "I don't believe there is a god". There's a difference. It's not a statement about god's existence but personal belief.
  • Re: Allah continuously maintains the world
     Reply #28 - May 12, 2010, 02:53 PM

    Atheism is not a belief. It is a response to a claim or claims that there is a god or gods. If somebody claims there are fairies, my position is afairyism. And if somebody says their particular god exists, my position is atheism.

    German ex-Muslim forumMy YouTubeList of Ex-Muslims
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  • Re: Allah continuously maintains the world
     Reply #29 - May 12, 2010, 09:13 PM

    Why believe in your religion's "unseen" claims and disbelieve in other religion's "unseen" claims?  There have been several thousand religions throughout history (most of them are extinct), and all these had their own "unseen" claims.  Humans have a tendency to invoke a supernatural agent when they don't understand something, but in today's age of science and technology, you should be able to see through all these claims.

    i think you have a similar unseen claim as i do, science is a tool, to that which u fall back on, and have turned this in to your religion.  there are things that as a limited human i nor any other human can explain.

    however before this you think about the universe, and i belive that we as humans can determine that there is a creator of the universe. science is a discovery of the rules that this creator has put into the universe. but science cannot prove many things.  and to have such faith is a tool is really diabolical. 

    Firstly Johnny, you didn't answer my question. 015 idiot2 Try again please.
    Secondly, you say science is the tool I use.  Of course it is.  What makes you think your tool called Islam is better.  Science is the best tool we have.  You yourself have faith in it.  The computer you are staring at right now was built by science, and the all the technology around you e.g. phones, TV, radios, lightbulbs, microwaves, cameras, electricity etc.  Why do you have faith in the aeroplane flying safely at 30000ft?
    How come your religion (or any other religion) couldn't build all this technology?
    And by the way, science is a method of reaching the truth. If you want to call this a religion, fine.  It seems to be the only religion that is building all the technology in the world.  Hmmmm...
     Thinking hard

    I assume you as a Muslim believe in a personal God.  Can you provide solid positive evidence for all the claims that Islam makes.  Science produces evidence for all its claims and makes those claims with the level of conviction that is proportional to the strength of the evidence.  So if you claim that there are Jinns, for example, you have to provide positive evidence that they exist.  Otherwise it would be hypocritical for you to laugh off claims that fairies exist (or witchcraft etc etc).

    Muslims hold a vast plethora of absurd beliefs such as:
    • a personal God who is: omnibenevolent, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient etc (and btw some of these are self-contradictory)
    • creationism (in particular that humans came from Adam and Eve)
    • heaven, hell and life after death
    • angels, the devil and jinns
    • devine predestination/fate
    • the day of judgement
    • the evil eye
    • the miracles of all the prophets
    • the ascention and second coming of Jesus as well as his virgin birth
    • punishment of the grave
    • the existence of a soul
    • and many more...

    If you want us to believe all this, please provide some proper POSITIVE evidence for each and every one of these claims.

    I mean, in science, if someone wants to claim that Bigfoot exists, they have to provide a specimen for other scientists to scrutinise.  Otherwise we assume it doesn't exist.  

    And here is the Michael Shermer "Baloney Detection Kit" video which will might teach you the difference between good evidence and bad evidence.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUB4j0n2UDU

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
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