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Theme Changer

 Topic: religion helped men in creating and holding a peaceful society, or counter the

 (Read 12592 times)
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  • Re: religion helped men in creating and holding a peaceful society, or counter the
     Reply #60 - May 11, 2010, 08:04 PM

    yeah  Afro  i'd just like to make clear though that i do accept evolution - i just think there are many things that are unexplained and the theory still has a lot of problems to overcome. i'm just open to the idea that God may have 'helped evolution along the way' and in addition to this i think that God may have put the first forms of life on earth.


    i'll get my coat before i get screamed down...

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: religion helped men in creating and holding a peaceful society, or counter the
     Reply #61 - May 11, 2010, 08:07 PM

    Oh yeah, we can't explain it, therefore it must have been God. Tongue

    If there was an all-powerful God, don't you think he could have made the Universe in such a way that he wouldn't have had to 'help evolution along the way'?
  • Re: religion helped men in creating and holding a peaceful society, or counter the
     Reply #62 - May 11, 2010, 08:13 PM

    You dont know how many universes God has to manage... i mean, comon.

    And not to mention he has to take a break every 6 days, otherwise his boss would kick his ass. And then theres the problem with the split personality, the slightly deranged son(s) and so on... the guy is a busy fucker. I guess as he was assigned to our universe he was uite happy evolution were allready in place.

    "We are never deceived, we deceive ourselves." - from Goethes Faust
    "Only the wisest and the stupidest men never change." - Confuzios
    "there is no religion of peace, only people who are peaceful while being religious."
  • Re: religion helped men in creating and holding a peaceful society, or counter the
     Reply #63 - May 11, 2010, 08:17 PM

    Oh yeah, we can't explain it, therefore it must have been God. Tongue

    If there was an all-powerful God, don't you think he could have made the Universe in such a way that he wouldn't have had to 'help evolution along the way'?


    do we know for sure that God is 'all-powerful' in this sense?

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: religion helped men in creating and holding a peaceful society, or counter the
     Reply #64 - May 11, 2010, 08:20 PM

    do we know for sure that God is 'all-powerful' in this sense?


    I dunno, I figured all-powerful meant that he was omnipotent in every sense. Is your God limited?
  • Re: religion helped men in creating and holding a peaceful society, or counter the
     Reply #65 - May 11, 2010, 08:36 PM

    i'm not sure about this one but i would tend to lean towards no they don't. i think we are a giant step ahead from other animals, sure animals love their offspring etc., but humans seem to be much more than that.


    Idc that Prince_spinoza already addressed this. He didn't add much.

    I don't quite understand what you mean when you say we are a giant step "ahead." Evolution isn't a means to an end. Which means that no given species is "ahead" because there is no goal to be reached.

    Loving offspring is what we do because it benefits us. What you think is so much more is human bias. Yes, I understand that its difficult to see things from other perspectives when human is all we can be but that is simply how it is. Nature is blind and Evolution too is blind.

    Quote
    we have the 'intelligence' to wonder if there is a God or not (why the heck should we even be able to do anything like this!),


    Because we have the brains for it. Why do we have the brains for it? Because having those brains and the ability  to use them in particular ways may have saved our asses.

    Quote
    we have the intelligence to figure out the deepest laws that govern our universe,


    Yes, yes, we've established that humans have very superior intelligence but it is only useful and important to US.  We have it and need  therefore it is important to us. An organism that relies on photosynthesis would find our intelligence not as useful as its photosynthesis.

    Quote
    we care about what happens to people on the other side of the planet, we love people who are not related to us, we experience beautiful emotions


    We also hurt our next door neighbours sometimes, we even kill our parents, and sometimes we experience horribly vile emotions.

    So what?

    Quote

    , we have detailed moral codes on what's right and wrong.


    again, so what? What has this got to do with possessing a soul? I am capable of good things so I have a soul?

    Quote
    In addition we (as in humanity) grow, we change, we learn, we become different - we get better. Other animals just tend to stay the same.


    Really?...Really? I will pass this off as silly.

    Quote

    I can't prove any of this is because of a soul (or indeed whether the soul affects our intelligence in a positive manner), but i can't help but think there is something special within us humans that makes us stand out rather than a few genetic changes compared to apes.


    oh...I see what you were doing there. Okay, so you can't prove its because we have a soul...but you Abu Yunus, you, cannot help but think there is something special within us that made us develop a soul? Does this mean Heaven and hell was also developed for this soul to visit?

    Seems like this soul was just made up by the mind which was formed by evolution and this heaven and hell was made up for the soul to go to because we humans think we are "special."

    Rightttt on. whistling2

    "If intelligence is feminine... I would want that mine would, in a resolute movement, come to resemble an impious woman."
  • Re: religion helped men in creating and holding a peaceful society, or counter the
     Reply #66 - May 11, 2010, 08:45 PM

    Is your God limited?


    I don't know

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: religion helped men in creating and holding a peaceful society, or counter the
     Reply #67 - May 11, 2010, 08:46 PM

    Idc that Prince_spinoza already addressed this. He didn't add much.

    I don't quite understand what you mean when you say we are a giant step "ahead." Evolution isn't a means to an end. Which means that no given species is "ahead" because there is no goal to be reached.

    Loving offspring is what we do because it benefits us. What you think is so much more is human bias. Yes, I understand that its difficult to see things from other perspectives when human is all we can be but that is simply how it is. Nature is blind and Evolution too is blind.

    Because we have the brains for it. Why do we have the brains for it? Because having those brains and the ability  to use them in particular ways may have saved our asses.

    Yes, yes, we've established that humans have very superior intelligence but it is only useful and important to US.  We have it and need  therefore it is important to us. An organism that relies on photosynthesis would find our intelligence not as useful as its photosynthesis.

    We also hurt our next door neighbours sometimes, we even kill our parents, and sometimes we experience horribly vile emotions.

    So what?

    again, so what? What has this got to do with possessing a soul? I am capable of good things so I have a soul?

    Really?...Really? I will pass this off as silly.

    oh...I see what you were doing there. Okay, so you can't prove its because we have a soul...but you Abu Yunus, you, cannot help but think there is something special within us that made us develop a soul? Does this mean Heaven and hell was also developed for this soul to visit?

    Seems like this soul was just made up by the mind which was formed by evolution and this heaven and hell was made up for the soul to go to because we humans think we are "special."

    Rightttt on. whistling2



    right on sister

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: religion helped men in creating and holding a peaceful society, or counter the
     Reply #68 - May 11, 2010, 09:23 PM

    I don't know

    What do you think the Quran means by omnicience & omnipotence then?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: religion helped men in creating and holding a peaceful society, or counter the
     Reply #69 - May 12, 2010, 01:03 AM

    They're not really chimpanzees. They're the humans Allah turned into apes because they didn't worship or believe in him.

    Though this is interesting how they're so "human". They even have a moment of silence to mourn those who passed on.

    It is not the way you live your life that is important, it is how well you enjoy it that matters.
  • Re: religion helped men in creating and holding a peaceful society, or counter the
     Reply #70 - May 12, 2010, 02:54 AM

    One would also argue that we are still moral because we were brought up in religion before we left it. If not, then because morals in society were based on the morals in religion.
    I don't know, I still don't think I would still see killing as an okay thing to do, whether a divine being tells me or not.

    I know someday you'll have a beautiful life, I know you'll be a star
    In somebody else's sky, but why, why, why
    Can't it be, can't it be mine

    https://twitter.com/AlharbiMoe
  • Re: religion helped men in creating and holding a peaceful society, or counter the
     Reply #71 - May 12, 2010, 03:06 AM

    Quote
    If not, then because morals in society were based on the morals in religion.
    I don't know, I still don't think I would still see killing as an okay thing to do, whether a divine being tells me or not.


    This part we can't really test because the records we have really don't go before religion so it becomes a chicken/egg thing.  All we have to go on is religions' word that it came first.  Besides the records we do have usually don't start with the Abrahamic God, but I'm sure they got corrupted somehow even though no one has a record of the originals. 

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: religion helped men in creating and holding a peaceful society, or counter the
     Reply #72 - May 12, 2010, 07:27 AM

    They're not really chimpanzees. They're the humans Allah turned into apes because they didn't worship or believe in him.

    Though this is interesting how they're so "human". They even have a moment of silence to mourn those who passed on.


    Ah they are jews that broke the sabbath.
  • Re: religion helped men in creating and holding a peaceful society, or counter the
     Reply #73 - May 12, 2010, 12:43 PM

    Ah they are jews that broke the sabbath.

    Exactly!  Cheesy

    It is not the way you live your life that is important, it is how well you enjoy it that matters.
  • Re: religion helped men in creating and holding a peaceful society, or counter the
     Reply #74 - May 12, 2010, 02:32 PM

    One would also argue that we are still moral because we were brought up in religion before we left it. If not, then because morals in society were based on the morals in religion.
    I don't know, I still don't think I would still see killing as an okay thing to do, whether a divine being tells me or not.


    Of course we won't. We have evolved to value human life, what do you think would have happened to a community that saw no 'wrong' in killing? They wouldn't have lasted very long. Morality is subject to natural selection like everything else.
  • Re: religion helped men in creating and holding a peaceful society, or counter the
     Reply #75 - May 12, 2010, 03:22 PM

    i didn't say we'd become rapists/murderers - we'd perhaps just become like regular animals - those dudes (apes etc.) are not vile. all i'm saying is that i think it's a 'soul' that makes us special - it's a personal opinion.


    So without this soul, all this beauty that man creates, the poems he writes, the paintings he paints.... it wouldn't be possible? We are such limited beings that without divinity we are incapable of such beauty? What about all the great evil that man is responsible for, that other animals are incapable of, is that due to our souls too?

    Quote

    ''But other animals do all of what you just mentioned''

    I meant 'we grow, we change, we learn, we become different - we get better' as humanity over the course of history whereas other animals it seems tend to stay the same.


    Other animals can learn over time too. Of course not like man, but man is capable of recording and replicating ideas, language gives us power, are you going to argue that we'd be incapable of that without souls too?
  • Re: religion helped men in creating and holding a peaceful society, or counter the
     Reply #76 - May 12, 2010, 03:39 PM

    AbuY - I think you are confusing a soul for a complex brain & social patterns that were optimised to enable us to optimise our survival strategies.  You now attribute that to a soul.  Terribly simplistic & a shame I think.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: religion helped men in creating and holding a peaceful society, or counter the
     Reply #77 - May 12, 2010, 03:50 PM

    i agree, humans do not have a soul - we are just the product of evolution. all it took was a number of genetic changes to seperate us from chimps.

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: religion helped men in creating and holding a peaceful society, or counter the
     Reply #78 - May 12, 2010, 04:03 PM

    So you are saying chimps dont have a soul?  It was not long ago that you claimed primates might have a soul, so I wonder if you really see the stark difference between animals that have a soul and those that dont. 

    Or is there a gradual change, which would not be indicative of animals that do/dont have a soul but more indicative of those with a gradual heightened sense of awareness and interactive ability. (well, unless you claim their certain %'s of soul within each species)

    So please confirm which animals, including apes & bonobos, which have this soul - it should be an easy exercise for you as you think the traits that a soul displays is obvious and magnificent.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: religion helped men in creating and holding a peaceful society, or counter the
     Reply #79 - May 12, 2010, 04:07 PM

    i agree, humans do not have a soul - we are just the product of evolution. all it took was a number of genetic changes to seperate us from chimps.

    It always surprises me when people thinks chimps are so different from us.  They share ALL the vestigial organs with us, they are in the same place, in fact whenever I see a documentary on them I am always in awe of how similar they are to us!

    Did you see that recent news footage on an elderly chimp dying of cnacer, and how the other chimps kept regularly checking on her breathing, stroking & comforting her, and even checking her pulse when she was still?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: religion helped men in creating and holding a peaceful society, or counter the
     Reply #80 - May 12, 2010, 04:09 PM

    i didn't say primates might have a soul, unless i'm mistaken. why has someone cut the side of your face on your avatar off?

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: religion helped men in creating and holding a peaceful society, or counter the
     Reply #81 - May 12, 2010, 04:12 PM

    It always surprises me when people thinks chimps are so different from us.  They share ALL the vestigial organs with us, they are in the same place, in fact whenever I see a documentary on them I am always in awe of how similar they are to us!



    yeas chimps and humans are like 2 peas in a pod (genetically speaking that's actually quite true)

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: religion helped men in creating and holding a peaceful society, or counter the
     Reply #82 - May 12, 2010, 04:22 PM

    why has someone cut the side of your face on your avatar off?

    Its losing its soul  Cry

    Quote
    i didn't say primates might have a soul, unless i'm mistaken.

    Oh, I thought you did but I might be wrong and cant be frigged looking it up.

    In any case, are you saying no animals in the world possess a soul, including bonobos (who use tools, communicate, and give each other blowwies even mano-a-mano).  Cant you see our behaviour as just being a more sophisticated version of their own?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: religion helped men in creating and holding a peaceful society, or counter the
     Reply #83 - May 12, 2010, 08:34 PM


    Do other animals have 'souls'?

    Do other animals have 'souls'?



    what is a soul
  • Re: religion helped men in creating and holding a peaceful society, or counter the
     Reply #84 - May 12, 2010, 08:36 PM

    capital city of south korea
  • Re: religion helped men in creating and holding a peaceful society, or counter the
     Reply #85 - May 12, 2010, 08:37 PM

  • Re: religion helped men in creating and holding a peaceful society, or counter the
     Reply #86 - May 12, 2010, 09:00 PM

    capital city of south korea
    [
    capital city of south korea
    [/quote
    capital city of south korea




     Afro
    but it is seoul not soul i guess


  • Re: religion helped men in creating and holding a peaceful society, or counter the
     Reply #87 - May 12, 2010, 09:13 PM

    Stevee, Anarchism is the Belief in NO authority, "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely". There would therefore be NO Countries at all.


    anarchism has still many flaws in its views.
    like they support that in anarchist society no one will be compelled to work and every one will be given basic necessities of live exempted from whether he works or not.i.e. food education safety clothing will be available as water is available to every one in abundance or easily.but i say
    1 in more illeterated socities like pakistan people can't live peacefully without an government on them and no one or atleast majority will not work or stay idle when necessities will be provided without discrimination.
    2.they propose equal reward for works been done.but what for intellectual work or works that normally people will not prefer to do like garbage collector given freewill to do the work in anarchist society .if reward will be the same no one will bother to work more or work hard.
    3if there will be no appreciation as now done by government and financial support in terms of loans and grants for research or developing new scientific methods to be more efficient.as there will be no governing body i dont hope so collectively even a commune formed voluntarily will be able to support huge costs of researchs
  • Re: religion helped men in creating and holding a peaceful society, or counter the
     Reply #88 - May 14, 2010, 04:55 PM

     Crystal Ball
    there is no such thing as a soul..
    if you cut the blood flow to .. say .. a finger..and it dies.. does your soul leave that finger?.. while it lives on in the rest or your body??
    pretty soon you're going to tell me that souls are ghosts..  floating around with angels... or gins..
     mysmilie_977
  • Re: religion helped men in creating and holding a peaceful society, or counter the
     Reply #89 - May 15, 2010, 12:10 AM

    I'm hoping to write a fictional story which involves people's perception on what 'souls' are

    I know someday you'll have a beautiful life, I know you'll be a star
    In somebody else's sky, but why, why, why
    Can't it be, can't it be mine

    https://twitter.com/AlharbiMoe
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