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Theme Changer

 Topic: Islamic Reform Conference

 (Read 30055 times)
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  • Re: Islamic Reform Conference
     Reply #30 - May 09, 2010, 08:20 PM
     Cheesy

    I love that argument though, doubt will strengthen faith. If you overcome it sure. But if you don't? Well, then you'll most likely end up here  dance
  • Re: Islamic Reform Conference
     Reply #31 - May 09, 2010, 08:22 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on May 09, 2010, 07:48 PM
    Doesn't that just leave it open to being abrogated once again, back to the less peaceful verses, in a fresh time of "war"?


    Bingo!

    And who is to say the "circumstances" don't demand a belligerent approach? It's all very well for a handful of 'nice' Muslims to say 'times have changed' so we must respond differently. Bin Laden certainly thinks our circumstances are the same!

  • Re: Islamic Reform Conference
     Reply #32 - May 09, 2010, 08:26 PM
    Quote from: Iraqi Atheist on May 09, 2010, 08:10 PM
    I just started watching an interview with this guy and I really like him so far. Thanks for mentioning him and great article you wrote there BTW  Smiley

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg3hLdJLrOY


    His teacher, Mahmoud Ta Ha, was executed for apostasy in Sudan. His students all fled Sudan - he lives in the USA.
  • Re: Islamic Reform Conference
     Reply #33 - May 09, 2010, 08:26 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on May 09, 2010, 08:14 PM
    who clearly has left us to do exactly that - even if he does exist.


    i'm beginning to think that way too, maybe we humans have evolved enough to be able to figure things out on our own - maybe that was always God's intention (assuming He exists) - who knows.
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Islamic Reform Conference
     Reply #34 - May 09, 2010, 08:29 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on May 09, 2010, 08:26 PM
    His teacher, Mahmoud Ta Ha, was executed for apostasy in Sudan. His students all fled Sudan - he lives in the USA.


    omg that's horrible. I don't understand why he is still a muslim? Sorry if that's an arrogant question but honestly I just don't get it.
  • Re: Islamic Reform Conference
     Reply #35 - May 09, 2010, 08:31 PM
    Quote from: abuyunus2 on May 09, 2010, 08:26 PM
    i'm beginning to think that way too, maybe we humans have evolved enough to be able to figure things out on our own - maybe that was always God's intention (assuming He exists) - who knows.


    It seems to me that if God does exist and he really did create this awesome universe and us - then he knew exactly what he was doing - and in those very creations are all the tools we need.

    We invented the holy books.

    We need to stop being scared and reaching for invisible crutches - and just trust ourselves!

    If God did make us - then he must have got it right from the start - no need for vague memorandums or software upgrades to fix bugs  grin12
  • Re: Islamic Reform Conference
     Reply #36 - May 09, 2010, 08:38 PM
    Quote from: abuyunus2 on May 09, 2010, 08:26 PM
    i'm beginning to think that way too, maybe we humans have evolved enough to be able to figure things out on our own - maybe that was always God's intention (assuming He exists) - who knows.


    Are you turning into a deist or something, Abu?
  • Re: Islamic Reform Conference
     Reply #37 - May 09, 2010, 08:42 PM
    no - just thinking outside the box i guess
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Islamic Reform Conference
     Reply #38 - May 09, 2010, 08:44 PM
    Quote from: abuyunus2 on May 09, 2010, 08:42 PM
    no - just thinking outside the box i guess


    that's bidaa
  • Re: Islamic Reform Conference
     Reply #39 - May 09, 2010, 08:47 PM
    I told Abu Yunus already that he is going to roast in Hell - as well as being on the list of people who will be first up for beheading once the Khilafah is established. Islamists hate reformers and moderate/modernist Muslims more than they hate us open apostates. (We'll be next up against the wall though so don't worry BD)
  • Re: Islamic Reform Conference
     Reply #40 - May 09, 2010, 08:49 PM
    Abu Yunus will be in good company then  dance

    CEMB party yaaaaaaaaay!!

    Just think about it:

    Bruce Springsteen, Bob Dylan, Sting.

    Shakespeare, Milton, Dan Brown.

    James Dean, Al Pacino, Tom Green.

    It will feature the best and the erm best (of the worst).
  • Re: Islamic Reform Conference
     Reply #41 - May 09, 2010, 08:54 PM
    Lets make a pact, a CEMB pact.  Once we all reach hell, we all piss & spit on each other to put Gods flames out.  Then we all get out of there, join hands with Satan, and beat the shit out of God.
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Islamic Reform Conference
     Reply #42 - May 09, 2010, 08:56 PM
    I think if there is Judgment Day we'll look at each other like Oh Shit. Abu Yunus will be like "I told you so!!". Right before Allah opens the chute and sends him sliding down to hell.

    This is how I picture you go to hell:

  • Re: Islamic Reform Conference
     Reply #43 - May 10, 2010, 10:47 AM
     Cheesy
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Islamic Reform Conference
     Reply #44 - May 10, 2010, 12:35 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on May 09, 2010, 08:49 PM
    Abu Yunus will be in good company then  dance

    CEMB party yaaaaaaaaay!!

    Just think about it:

    Bruce Springsteen, Bob Dylan, Sting.

    Shakespeare, Milton, Dan Brown.

    James Dean, Al Pacino, Tom Green.

    It will feature the best and the erm best (of the worst).

    I would add George Best to the list as well.  grin12
    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: Islamic Reform Conference
     Reply #45 - May 11, 2010, 08:47 PM
    All the interesting people will be in hell.  All the religious people who follow their religion to the absolute letter are so suffocated that I can't imagine heaven liberating them from boredom. 
    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Islamic Reform Conference
     Reply #46 - May 11, 2010, 09:35 PM
    Here's just one of my heroes that is definitely Hell-bound! He was an atheist of Jewish background who spent his life playing music and then committed suicide. (All HARAM!)



    From Wikipedia:
    Phil Ochs (pronounced /ˈoʊks/) (December 19, 1940 – April 9, 1976) was an American protest singer (or, as he preferred, a topical singer) and songwriter who was known for his sharp wit, sardonic humor, earnest humanism, political activism, insightful and alliterative lyrics, and haunting voice. He wrote hundreds of songs in the 1960s and released eight albums in his lifetime.

    Ochs performed at many political events, including anti-Vietnam War and civil rights rallies, student events, and organized labor events over the course of his career, in addition to many concert appearances at such venues as New York City's Town Hall and Carnegie Hall. Politically, Ochs described himself as a "left social democrat" who became an "early revolutionary" after the protests at the 1968 Democratic National Convention in Chicago led to a police riot, which had a profound effect on his state of mind.[1]

    After years of prolific writing in the 1960s, Ochs's mental stability declined in the 1970s. He eventually succumbed to a number of problems including bipolar disorder and alcoholism, and took his own life (hanged himself) in 1976.
  • Re: Islamic Reform Conference
     Reply #47 - May 11, 2010, 10:00 PM
    Burn in Hell, Phill:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N93OCCBXGXc
  • Re: Islamic Reform Conference
     Reply #48 - May 12, 2010, 06:25 PM
    I love Phil Ochs!

    Perhaps the best anti-war song ever written:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5pgrKSwFJE
  • Re: Islamic Reform Conference
     Reply #49 - May 12, 2010, 06:38 PM
     Afro
  • Re: Islamic Reform Conference
     Reply #50 - May 12, 2010, 08:11 PM
    There's another event in Oxford on Wed 26th May called Rethinking Islamic Reform.

    Speakers are Tariq Ramadan and Hamza Yusuf.

    http://www.rethinkingislamicreform.com/event
    .
  • Re: Islamic Reform Conference
     Reply #51 - May 17, 2010, 12:52 PM
    just registered for the conference in june. You are allowed to submit a paper or a suggestion for discussion. Here is what I suggested. If you guys have any questions you would like asked, let me know and I'll try my best.


    Hell and Kuffar.

    Even though the word 'Kafir' is most commonly translated to unbeliever/disbeliever/infidel, the more literal translation of the word describes one who 'covers up (the truth)'. In my opinion the word kafir was never meant to generally refer to disbelievers/non-Muslims - it refers to those who with all their senses KNOW the truth but cover it up. Who might these individuals be? In my opinion they are people who were present at the time of Prophet Muhammad and the time the Quran was revealed - it was only these people who could possibly KNOW the truth. The covering of the truth by those who interacted with a messenger of God is considered a crime punishable by hell in scripture - in my opinion - and 'kafir' therefore does not refer to those who do not BELIEVE in general.

    The reason why I think this is a very important point is because it reflects on how we see our fellow human being. People cannot control what they believe - should Muslims really be looking down upon those who do not believe as somehow inferior? For example a common attitude amongst some Muslims is that 'these non-believers are going to be sent to hell by God anyway - so why should we bother treat them nicely or with any worthy respect'. This sort of attitude I guess also exists within the subconscious of even many ordinary Muslims. We should not simply be viewing non-Muslims/Atheists as people who we could simply get along with but instead as people with whom we share common goals with - working toward the greater good for humanity.

    Whether Atheist or Muslim, we all have God-given souls - and maybe we were always supposed to evolve into beings who can use their souls and intellect to decide what is right/wrong or good/bad. Perhaps scriptures/revelations were important in helping us along the way to evolve into what we are now, but were only much more relevant for the time in which they were sent. Bottom line, whether we believe in scripture or not, whether we believe in any religion or are Atheist - we all have common goals - we do good for the sake of good - and that is ultimately the kind of worship God is after.
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Islamic Reform Conference
     Reply #52 - May 17, 2010, 01:32 PM

    Good for you abuyunus  Afro

    I don't agree with your interpretation completely but you are making an effort.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Islamic Reform Conference
     Reply #53 - May 17, 2010, 01:35 PM
    Good stuff AY let us know what you get to hear at the conference.
  • Re: Islamic Reform Conference
     Reply #54 - May 17, 2010, 01:37 PM
    You might be interested in this site, Abu Yunus:

    http://www.understanding-islam.com/

    The Sheikh there argues on similar lines and uses what he calls Itmam al Hujjah - which means "the Perfection/Completion of the Proof/Evidence".

    Basically he says that only those who witnessed the prophet and saw the proof of Islam first-hand and in it's entirety are the ones who are the real "rejectors" of the truth. While later generations who have not witnessed it / had it made evident to them - cannot to be held as accountable.

    Before finally leaving Islam myself I found some of the things he said useful, though ultimately I wasn't convinced. However I think they are a way forward for those who are so inclined, as they both manage to remain true to the faith while... let's say... making it a little more flexible.

    btw - if you do go I'd love to hear your review of the conference  Afro


  • Re: Islamic Reform Conference
     Reply #55 - May 17, 2010, 01:56 PM
    ''as they both manage to remain true to the faith while... let's say... making it a little more flexible.''

    ok i'll let that one slide - it's much better than 'you dudes are making up your own religion now'. hehe
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Islamic Reform Conference
     Reply #56 - May 17, 2010, 02:07 PM
    Quote from: abuyunus2 on May 17, 2010, 01:56 PM
    ''as they both manage to remain true to the faith while... let's say... making it a little more flexible.''

    ok i'll let that one slide - it's much better than 'you dudes are making up your own religion now'. hehe



    lol That was the subtext, but thought I'd phrase so as not to insult.  Wink
  • Re: Islamic Reform Conference
     Reply #57 - May 17, 2010, 02:11 PM
    lol, you're close too seeing my nasty side  Wink
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Islamic Reform Conference
     Reply #58 - May 17, 2010, 06:17 PM
    Quote from: abuyunus2 on May 17, 2010, 02:11 PM
    lol, you're close too seeing my nasty side  Wink


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnS49c9KZw8
  • Re: Islamic Reform Conference
     Reply #59 - May 17, 2010, 06:31 PM
     Cheesy
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
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