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 Topic: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"

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  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1770 - May 17, 2015, 07:53 PM

    Hello,

    Yes, things have been going on and I haven't had a chance to touch anything at all.

    For now, if anyone wants to continue my work, I can give access to the other folder where the formatting is actually being done. Once things stabilize for me, I can help with this again.

    Lua, Zaotar, Hassan: PM if you want access to the other folder where the formatting is going on.

    Thanks!
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1771 - May 17, 2015, 10:08 PM

    Hello,

    Yes, things have been going on and I haven't had a chance to touch anything at all.

    For now, if anyone wants to continue my work, I can give access to the other folder where the formatting is actually being done. Once things stabilize for me, I can help with this again.

    Lua, Zaotar, Hassan: PM if you want access to the other folder where the formatting is going on.

    Thanks!


    Great thanks DS I will let Lua ana Zaotar know as they have already started work  Afro
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1772 - August 03, 2015, 07:12 PM

    I want to keep those interested up to date with what's going on with this.

    I'm afraid publishing is going to have to wait as I will be going through the whole thing and will be making changes to the style and even sometimes content.

    I have decided to do this after discussing with Wahabist (please see our correspondence below).

    This book will now not be just a straight translation but is (and has been) a collaborative work with many hands contributing (thanks Zaotar, Lua, Iraqi Atheist and all the many others who helped and chipped in.)

    *************************************************

    Hassan, I have leafed through the translation and I have to tell you that this is the first time I've ever heard of the book and its author. I went to google to get the Arabic version and only then things started to become clearer to me. I had thought this was your book, that you have authored a book on your journey with Islam. So, you can appreciate my bafflement when Abas entered the fray.

    I managed to read 25 pages of the translation and here are my thoughts on one thing:

    One: as far as its language is concerned, it is clear enough and grammatical. However, the intro reads like a sermon and in some places a pure rant. It takes the reader too much for granted and this - when translated to another language, thus a wider audience - has the effect of rendering it nonsensical and absurd. My Ordeal implies a personal account, a personal journey in which a story teller tells a story leaving the readers to draw their own conclusions. However, the preliminary speech makes it obvious that this is more than storytelling -- this is someone warning, sermonising and imploring the book's readers to think and change stuff about themselves. This overtly didactic approach ironically does what the book itself is decrying.

    Mixing of genres and passing the impersonal as personal works really fine in Arabic and to the Arab reader on such topics. But it really does not in English and modern thinking readers. The author keeps saying "we are this", "progress and history is not with us" and things like this without taking the time to delineate and define these things or his frame of reference as is the respectable tradition of serious books authored in English.

    The other thing which seems to lack rigour is that it uses too strong language where doubting or the subjunctive mode is most apt: "Our grandfathers devoted themselves to studying the Qur’ān. It was a study full of invention, concoction, and artefact. They ascribed to the Qur’ān eloquence, clarity, and miraculousness that it  did not merit. They wrestled from it meanings, intentions, and purposes that never occurred to its author" -- how does he, Abas, know that they never occurred to its author? Careful language use would be something like "and purposes that are very hard and unlikely they have occurred to its author" keeping speculations about speculations reasonable.

    So, if the book continues in this vein, something needs to be done by the translators.

    It is not unknown of translators to change a lot in books in order to make them readable to the new audiences. This is not only about untranslatable stuff like idioms and culturally specific references, but also concerning what makes sense to different people in terms of appreciation -- if in doubt, try translating poems and poetic prose where things like rhythm, metre, alliteration matter as much in conveying any unified meaning as the actual verses' semantic preoccupations.

    If the rest of the book is written in this way, then whatever ripple the author intended to create would (imagine if I said "will not" here; how arrogant would I sound?) not be felt outside Egypt and Sufi followers of Islam and the Arab.

    Finally, to be fair to the author, he is using the same language which is normal to writers and readers of such books and on such topics. In fact, some of his references can easily be traced to the Qur'an and Hadith and a lot of what in literary criticism is known as "intertextuality" thus occurs. But this is appropriate to such linguistically sympathetic readers and religious practitioners who draw from a common culture and language. This done with this intensity, regrettably, does not work in English in general and would not work for people for whom Al-Azhar does not mean much.

    This is a quick reply, so I'll be back (as Terminator's arnie would've said) either here or on emailing. P.S. lua, tell me if you wish to be dropped out of this correspondence.


    __________________________________________________


    Now I know why I wanted you to have a look. You are right and I think I knew it.

    Publishing will have to wait.

    I will go through it and if you are available I would appreciate if you could look at my changes and let me know if it works better in English.

    Lua I would appreciate it if we keep you in the loop just fyi so you know what's going on.

    ___________________________________________________

    Hi Wahabist,

    I'm back on the farm now and will start going through this incorporating Lua's and Zaotar's suggestions and will also do my best to re-write it in accordance with your advice.
    I would like to post what I am doing on the main "My Ordeal Discussion..." thread as I want ppl top know what I'm doing.

    Would you mind if I quote some of your advice in  my post?

    I just want people to understand what and why I'm doing this.

    Actually I wanted to make many radical changes, but when I did in one particular instance I felt there were one or two who felt I shouldn't so I stopped. Now I feel emboldened by your words and will make changes as I see fit.

    Hassan

    _________________________________________________________

    Hassan, I give you the green light to publish all our correspondence on the topic. Feel free to also quote me mutatis mutandis on the following: I know very little about the circumstances surrounding you, Lua and Zaotar embarking on this project. Lack of knowledge about it makes me have reservations regarding translating another person's book without things like having a written permission from them and other procedural niceties of artistic engagement with another person's intellectual property. For this end, I think a liberal departure from strict faithfulness to the original text might be advisable and a slightly more ambitious originality -- where heavy reliance is on the text but it's not the text -- would thus emerge. After that, any permission sought from the author is more courtesy than a requirement. Make of it, as it were, like Tafsir Al-Jalalayn, a collaborative work where you do not have to adhere to standards set by its author, his style, his way of organising chapters and on the micro level, doing a little bit of Anglicism (i.e. language, references, similes etc) to make it more readable to its intended readers. Finally, if the work carried out by Lua et al is very extensive and you approval of most of it, then the book might already have become a committee translation. In any case, I have a lot of faith in you, Hassan, in this regard.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1773 - August 05, 2015, 12:46 AM

    I have no doubt that you'll do a great job with the revisions Hassan. And I think a brand new introduction would be preferable .... I know Lua and I have commented on the current intro issues.   That said, I think the text couldn't really be translated into more accessible form without essentially being a different work.  And this would lose the distinctive 'insider' value that it currently has.   

    In other words, I don't see it as a general-interest text, and while making it more accessible is a good thing, I don't think it can be made much more accessible without losing its distinctive value.  That would be a different book, which perhaps you might consider writing yourself (I would love to read that, as well as if Wahabist wrote something himself).
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1774 - August 05, 2015, 01:35 AM

    I hear you Zaotar - and will give this some thought before deciding how to do this. Thanks - I appreciate the feedback  Afro
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1775 - August 05, 2015, 08:37 AM

    Thinking about Penguin editions of classics, they often have a somewhat lengthy introduction by the editor/translator to set the scene and context of the work. Is this the kind of thing Zoatar is getting at? That way the author's own intro could be left in its 'insider' form but the reader (particularly interested 'outsiders') will have some background info to put it in context. Is there any biographical info about the author available besides this book?

    Good luck with it however you decide to proceed. I'll be interested to read the finished product.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1776 - August 05, 2015, 09:55 AM

    Thanks scm.

    Zaotar what is your impression of the book ?

    Does it work in English?

    I know exactly what Wahabist is saying. Arabic and English are not just two different languages they are different ways of expressing, conceptualising and Conveying ideas. Completely different mannerisms and attitude.

    It is difficult for me to tell how it works in English because I've read the Arabic and already know what he's trying to say.

  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1777 - August 05, 2015, 03:05 PM

    It works in English for the reader who is expecting a literal translation of a book written in flowery 'high Arabic.'  The strength of that is you get to see what an elite 'true believer' says about the Qur'an.  There are innumerable books written about the Qur'an from an infidel or academic perspective, but few written from an apostate perspective.

    I think a neutral, Penguin style introduction would be a lot better than the current one. 

    But much turns on who your anticipated audience is.  I suspect the book probably has great appeal for 'critical' or agnostic/apostate Muslims.  They will also understand the peculiar rhetoric.  But it is inherently too personal and unique to be readily turned into an accessible critique of the Qur'an for those who are not interested in what Wahabist calls the Al Azhar side of things. . . Those who share a common culture.

    Put simply, the book's value strikes me more as insider testimonial than as neutral English-language argument.  I would explain and promote it as such, as the product of a lifetime of reflection within the elite circles, rather than as something that is more 'alien' to the world it is commenting on.

    I do think the footnotes should help explain, in a neutral way, the references and arguments, as they would in an academic translation (rather than being written from a polemical or non-neutral standpoint, continuing to press the argument).
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1778 - August 05, 2015, 03:20 PM

    Thanks. OK for now I will not make any radical changes and just review the mainly grammar/syntax points you an Lua highlighted.

  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1779 - August 10, 2015, 11:13 AM


    I think a neutral, Penguin style introduction would be a lot better than the current one. 





    Zaotar were you speaking about the authors intro or mine or both. I think both need sorting.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1780 - August 10, 2015, 11:46 PM

    I think yours .... the intro should ground the reader for what to expect and why, what type of book this is, as opposed to making affirmative arguments of its own.

    Think of it like what you would expect to see in an annotated English translation of al-Razi.  Normally, this would be produced with a simple introduction that gives a neutral background of the author, and then gives the reader enough context to understand what follows, why it is significant, and why it takes the form it does (in terms of style, genre, context, etc.).

    You want to render the translated text clear in English, but there's no way to turn it into something it's not.  Just as the value of al-Razi's text would be lost if you were just loosely paraphrasing his arguments.  Better in that case to start from a blank slate and write your own book!  Confusing genres (for example, by trying to improve the author's arguments via translated restatements) would just make the book more confusing.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1781 - August 11, 2015, 01:51 AM

    I understand. You are right. I will change the intro.

    I will follow your advice and won't make any changes to the book itself but just review your and Lua's edits.

    I'm just starting it now.

    Thanks so much for your help Zaotar.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1782 - August 11, 2015, 06:38 PM

    OK Zaotar - I have cut out all my blabbing - how's this:

    Translator’s Note.

    Apart from the biographical details given in this book, very little is known about the author Abbas Abdul Noor and it seems likely that he used an alias to conceal his identity out of fear of any backlash. What we do know is that this book has been available in Arabic for about 10 years online in PDF form. Under the title on the first page it says that this is a draft copy and so it would appear that the book never made it to final publication for printing and from comments on the internet it appears the book was refused publication in Egypt and other Arab countries.

    We only have the internal evidence of the book to go on and so it is up to the reader to make up their own mind about what it says.

    Arabic, like all languages, reflects the culture, mentality and way of thinking that is peculiar to the peoples who speak the language and their unique history. Translating any work is always a challenge but in particular from Arabic to English where the styles, syntax, methodology and so on differs so much. This book is written very much in the classical Arabic style that crystallised during the flowering of Arabic literature. It is a style that may appear somewhat over elaborate and flowery for English and I was tempted to try to anglicised my translation. But I finally opted for a fairly straightforward translation that gives the reader a more faithful representation of the Arabic style and peek into the mind of the author to see the Qur'an from the perspective of an Arab Muslim and his personal journey and insights.

    There are very few books by Muslims that analyse the Qur'an in a truly critical way - and even fewer in Arabic by Arabs. This book is important because it breaks that ground and removes that barrier.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1783 - August 11, 2015, 06:53 PM

    I really do however want to add a personal not about myself since my name is going to be on it and I will be in the cross hairs of attacks.

    Could there be a section such as: "About the Translator."

    and have something like this (from my Agnostic Muslim Khutbahs profile):

    I use the label Agnostic Muslim because it embraces both my doubts & faith. I hope that there is something more than this material existence of ours - but at the same time remaining incurably skeptical. I believe it is impossible to prove or disprove the existence of God but nevertheless I have faith and hope that there is something more... something greater... call it God if you will. I identify with Islam because it is the religious tradition I grew up in and am familiar and comfortable within. I believed in it and practised devoutly for my whole life. It shaped who I am for half a century & continues to be an important part of my life. It influences my behaviour, cultural habits, the way I think & perceive the world. I instinctively reference sayings from Qur’an & Sunna and find comfort in prayer & fasting. But I do not suppress reason in favour of dogma and pick and choose that which I find valid and of value and ignore that which I don't.

    The reason I do this is because although I am a Muslim I do not feel bound by the words of the Qur'an. I'm happy to believe Muhammad was inspired by God to utter its words, I believe this inspiration came through the mind and person of Muhammad and that it was he who interpreted this inspiration according to his time, culture and personality. He composed the words and phrased the sentences. As a result I believe that while the Qur'an contains a great deal of wisdom, it is inextricably tied to it's context and environment and most important of all it is fallible not infallible! This means that while I find the Qur'an is a source of inspiration for me - I subject it to human reason and not the other way around.


  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1784 - August 11, 2015, 06:58 PM

    Lua and anyone else please feel free to chip in with views on my re-drafted Intro and views on a "About the Translator" piece.

    Perhaps someone could re-write it so it is in the 3rd person rather than the 1st?
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1785 - August 11, 2015, 07:06 PM

    BTW I've had a quick look through the whole thing and the edits Zaotar and Lua have done are fine and tbh I think it's about ready to go.

    I'm keen to get it out now as we've spent so long faffing around.

    So what's the next step?

    How do we publish?
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1786 - August 11, 2015, 07:11 PM

    I have the next couple steps mostly worked out. Can I email you Friday with the details after work? Or I'll post here, whichever you'd prefer?
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1787 - August 11, 2015, 07:21 PM

    Whichever you like darling
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1788 - August 11, 2015, 08:08 PM

    Lua, I notice that some Qur'an verses are in italics and centred - and some are neither.

    I also notice the footnotes are just part of the normal text.

    What should I do about that?

  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1789 - August 11, 2015, 08:16 PM


    I use the label 'Agnostic Muslim' for myself because it embraces both my doubts and my faith. I hope that there is something more than this material existence of ours - but at the same time remain incurably skeptical. I believe it is impossible to prove or disprove the existence of God, but nevertheless I have faith and hope that there is something more... something greater... call it God if you will. I identify with Islam because it is the religious tradition I grew up in and am familiar and comfortable within. I believed in it and practised devoutly for my whole life. It shaped who I am for half a century, and continues to be an important part of my life. It influences my behaviour, my cultural habits, the way I think and perceive the world. I instinctively reference sayings from the Qur’an and Sunna, and I find comfort in prayer and fasting. But I do not suppress reason in favour of dogma.  I pick and choose that which I find valid and valuable, and ignore that which I don't.

     I do this because I do not feel bound by the words of the Qur'an, although I am a Muslim. I'm happy to believe Muhammad was inspired by God to utter the words of the Qur'an. I believe this inspiration came through the mind and person of Muhammad, and that it was he who interpreted this inspiration according to his time, culture, and personality. He composed the words and phrased the sentences. As a result I believe that, while the Qur'an contains a great deal of wisdom, it is inextricably tied to its context and environment. Most important of all, it is fallible not infallible! This means that I find the Qur'an is a source of inspiration - but I subject it to human reason, and not the other way around.




    Hassan, I do think it's appropriate to post something like this as a translator's note, sure.  Also I edited the grammar a bit and fixed a few typos in your quote above (just suggestions), so I'd recommend cut-and-pasting it if you are going to put it in the book.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1790 - August 11, 2015, 09:22 PM

    Thanks, Zaotar.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1791 - August 11, 2015, 09:26 PM

    Is the intro ok?
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1792 - August 11, 2015, 09:26 PM

    This:

    OK Zaotar - I have cut out all my blabbing - how's this:

    Translator’s Note.

    Apart from the biographical details given in this book, very little is known about the author Abbas Abdul Noor and it seems likely that he used an alias to conceal his identity out of fear of any backlash. What we do know is that this book has been available in Arabic for about 10 years online in PDF form. Under the title on the first page it says that this is a draft copy and so it would appear that the book never made it to final publication for printing and from comments on the internet it appears the book was refused publication in Egypt and other Arab countries.

    We only have the internal evidence of the book to go on and so it is up to the reader to make up their own mind about what it says.

    Arabic, like all languages, reflects the culture, mentality and way of thinking that is peculiar to the peoples who speak the language and their unique history. Translating any work is always a challenge but in particular from Arabic to English where the styles, syntax, methodology and so on differs so much. This book is written very much in the classical Arabic style that crystallised during the flowering of Arabic literature. It is a style that may appear somewhat over elaborate and flowery for English and I was tempted to try to anglicised my translation. But I finally opted for a fairly straightforward translation that gives the reader a more faithful representation of the Arabic style and peek into the mind of the author to see the Qur'an from the perspective of an Arab Muslim and his personal journey and insights.

    There are very few books by Muslims that analyse the Qur'an in a truly critical way - and even fewer in Arabic by Arabs. This book is important because it breaks that ground and removes that barrier.


  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1793 - August 11, 2015, 09:58 PM

    I might rewrite and reorganize your intro a bit as follows:

    "There are very few books by Muslims that analyse the Qur'an in a truly critical way - and even fewer written in Arabic by Arabs. This book is important because it breaks that ground and removes that barrier.  Until now, it has not been translated into English.

    The book has been available in Arabic for about ten years in PDF form.  The first page identifies the text as a draft copy, indicating that it was not finalized for printing.  Comments on the internet indicate that the book was refused publication in Egypt and other Arab countries, which is not unexpected given the difficulty of publishing critical commentary on the Qur'an in such regions.

    Apart from the biographical details given by the book itself, little is known about its author, who the text identifies by the name Abbas Abdul Noor.  It seems likely that this name is an alias used to conceal the author's identity, reflecting his fear of repercussions from publishing such a forthright analysis. The Arabic text demonstrates the author's deep knowledge of the Qur'an and the hadith, which is reflected by his use of numerous allusions and references that may be difficult for the non-Muslim to grasp. I have added many footnotes to explain and cite these references, so that readers who may be less familiar with the Qur'an will nonetheless be able to follow the author's arguments and observations.

    The reader will immediately notice the book's distinctive style and language, which is complex and poetic.  Arabic, like all languages, reflects the culture, mentality, and way of thinking that is peculiar to the peoples who speak the language and their unique history. Translating any work is always a challenge, but it is particularly difficult to translate an Arabic book like this into English. The book is written in the classical Arabic style that crystallised during the flowering of Arabic literature. This style may appear somewhat over-elaborate and flowery for English, and so I was tempted to translate it into less literal form. But I finally opted for a fairly straightforward translation that gives the reader a more faithful representation of the Arabic style. This helps convey the author's perspective on the Qur'an as an Arab Muslim, and communicates his personal journey and insights."
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1794 - August 11, 2015, 10:03 PM

    Perfect - thanks Zaotar - you're a legend!  Afro
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1795 - August 11, 2015, 10:24 PM

    Zaotar I changed/extended the note about myself: (The lower bit)

    Translator’s Note.

    There are very few books by Muslims that analyse the Qur'an in a truly critical way - and even fewer written in Arabic by Arabs. This book is important because it breaks that ground and removes that barrier.  Until now, it has not been translated into English.

    The book has been available in Arabic for about ten years in PDF form.  The first page identifies the text as a draft copy, indicating that it was not finalised for printing.  Comments on the internet indicate that the book was refused publication in Egypt and other Arab countries, which is not unexpected given the difficulty of publishing critical commentary on the Qur'an in such regions. Beneath the words "Draft Copy" it says: "Damanhur, Arab Republic of Egypt, 2004"

    Apart from the biographical details given by the book itself, little is known about its author, who the text identifies by the name Abbas Abdul Noor.  It seems likely that this name is an alias used to conceal the author's identity, reflecting his fear of repercussions from publishing such a forthright analysis. The Arabic text demonstrates the author's deep knowledge of the Qur'an and the hadith, which is reflected by his use of numerous allusions and references that may be difficult for the non-Muslim to grasp. I have added many footnotes to explain and cite these references, so that readers who may be less familiar with the Qur'an will nonetheless be able to follow the author's arguments and observations.

    The reader will immediately notice the book's distinctive style and language, which is complex and poetic.  Arabic, like all languages, reflects the culture, mentality, and way of thinking that is peculiar to the peoples who speak the language and their unique history. Translating any work is always a challenge, but it is particularly difficult to translate an Arabic book like this into English. The book is written in the classical Arabic style that crystallised during the flowering of Arabic literature. This style may appear somewhat over-elaborate and flowery for English, and so I was tempted to translate it into less literal form. But I finally opted for a fairly straightforward translation that gives the reader a more faithful representation of the Arabic style. This helps convey the author's perspective on the Qur'an as an Arab Muslim, and communicates his personal journey and insights.


    ***************

    A Short Note About Myself.

    My father was Egyptian and my mother English. I was born Muslim and at the age of 19 I became very devout and committed to Islam. For the next 30 years Islam guided every aspect of my life. I completed a BA in Arabic and Islamic Studies at the School of Oriental and African Studies where I became President of the Islamic Society. After leaving university I became Amir of a Da’wah group in North London with my brother and edited an Islamic magazine called ‘The Clarion’. I wrote four books for Muslim children and spent fifteen years as a teacher at Islamia School, the one founded by Yusuf Islam (Cat Stevens). But around the age of 48 I began to suffer a serious crisis of faith. I started to question the beliefs I had for so long taken for granted and started to look at Islam in a new light. This period of loss of faith lasted about 7 years. During this time I learnt a great deal about myself. Yes I did have doubts and misgivings and yes there were things I couldn't believe - but at the same time I did still have faith and a belief in God. I realised that I felt more comfortable and happier identifying as a Muslim than an Ex-Muslim.

    I now use the label 'Agnostic Muslim' for myself because it embraces both my doubts and my faith. I hope that there is something more than this material existence of ours - but at the same time remain incurably skeptical. I believe it is impossible to prove or disprove the existence of God, but nevertheless I have faith and hope that there is something more... something greater... call it God if you will. I identify with Islam because it is the religious tradition I grew up in and am familiar and comfortable within. It shaped who I am for half a century, and continues to be an important part of my life. It influences my behaviour, my cultural habits, the way I think and perceive the world. I instinctively reference sayings from the Qur’an and Sunna, and I find comfort in prayer and fasting. But I do not suppress reason in favour of dogma.  I pick and choose that which I find valid and valuable, and ignore that which I don't.

    I do this because I do not feel bound by the words of the Qur'an, although I am a Muslim. I'm happy to believe Muhammad was inspired by God to utter the words of the Qur'an. I believe this inspiration came through the mind and person of Muhammad, and that it was he who interpreted this inspiration according to his time, culture, and personality. He composed the words and phrased the sentences. As a result I believe that, while the Qur'an contains a great deal of wisdom, it is inextricably tied to its context and environment. Most important of all, it is fallible not infallible! This means that I find the Qur'an is a source of inspiration - but I subject it to human reason, and not the other way around.


  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1796 - September 21, 2015, 10:52 PM

    When is this due out? I'm keen to read it.

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1797 - October 18, 2015, 02:13 PM

    Soon. Maybe a few days until Lua finishes going over it and then I need to check the arabic. Unfortunately my computer's just gone in for repairs but should have it back soon.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1798 - November 01, 2015, 09:32 PM

    Interesting stuff, I can't wait for the CEMB version of the book by Hassan. I haven't read all the comments but just to let you guys know that the Arabic version of the book was published in 2004 and there are many mixed reviews on the book by Arabic speaking readers (see link below)

    There is also a French version available for 80 Euro? Making money out of it hey? I hope they don't try to sue CEMB and take the credit.

    Abbas Abdel Nour: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/8679275
    [possibly using fake name]

    The original author?



    There are some very interesting comments on the goodreads site.

    This is supposed to be where the books response is uploaded in Arabic: http://al-zekr.com/2014/08/26/
    and when you click on the profile photo of the publisher (top right), you see a photo of a large pig. This will be seen by others as an attempt by anti-Muslims to discredit the religion. The people who are trying to do "good" have already made people suspicious of this book. It won't be taken seriously.

    "And if all the trees in the earth were pens, and the sea, with seven more seas to help it, (were ink), the words of Allah could not be exhausted. Lo! Allah is Mighty, Wise." -- Qur'an
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1799 - November 17, 2015, 03:14 AM

    Hello everyone, I miss you lots!

    Anyways, just letting you that I'm still alive. I really want to get this thing done, but I'm still busy with a few things.

    In December, I'll be a bit more free time, and I'll definitely spend time working on this. Even if we don't review the text fully, lets make sure we have our first presentable copy soon.

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