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Theme Changer

 Topic: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"

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  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #60 - April 29, 2010, 04:17 AM

    Quote
    My plight with the Koran and with God in the Koran version 2 (it's a better version) - Abbas Abdel Nour (Arabic)

    Abbas Abdul Noor, born in Damanhur, a Sunni doctrine. Faqih. Director of hospice. He was sixty-year-old devout Muslim, Imam mosque, a great preacher and writer, poet and explaining the Holy Qur'an, and then after the publication of his book (the Koran with my plight) and became an unbeliever when it was eighty years old, and his book is the most dangerous wrote in atheism.
    He joined the Faculty of religion in the assets of Al-Azhar. And the granting of assistance from the Islamic Waqf, moved to the University of Sorbonne in Paris to attend a doctorate in philosophy of science, philosophy and able to be educated together.
    When he returned to his city became imam and preacher at a mosque, and it has a Dreadlocked, gave them the note of good faith and worship, as a university professor and author of books and many scientific philosophical.
    However, the intellectual life were not without concern or without his religious doubts, it was mind raises thorny issues, and enough faith in the answer to every problem ..
    Science and faith conflict began when Abbas early in the conflict have not had the opportunity to present publicly. If out of the shadows since its inception, had reached that the reduction of violence as expressed in this book, there is a lot like him.

    Note: This book is banned in all Arab and Islamic countries.


    Iraqi Athiest, they talk about a better version. I am not sure if they are talking about this I one I posted. I am not good with torrents, I found sites that have it to download with torrents. And since it was banned, I am not sure if other websites will be talking about it.

    Can you please check?

    ...
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #61 - April 29, 2010, 09:50 AM

    Just finished translating the first 2 pages (the author's biography).

    Although I wasted a lot of time, it was extremely time consuming nonetheless. The 2 pages (1 Word page) took me 1 hour. Perhaps it's because I haven't read a book in Arabic ages. Probably because I have never done it before.

    It can be fun though and it would definitely improve your proficiency in both languages.

    One problem, the second last paragraph in the second page is not complete because some words are missing from the original file. Clearly it was a scanning fault.
    In the word document, it's the paragraph with the *** next to it.



    Dear IA, you are professonal indeed. If you don't mind here I quote your translated intro so that our readers can anticipate and look forward for more to come... I think COEM should publish it and sell it with a tiny price that covers its printing cost!

    Quote

    About the author:

    Abbas Abdul Nur was born in Damanhur in 1927. A Sufi Sheikh, pious Muslim of the Sunni sect, jurist, and chief of a Khanaqah. He inherited the religion from fathers and grandfathers recognized for their piety and strength of doctrine.

    Enrolled in the Facuty of Theology at Al Azhar where he studied for three years. He decided to complete the fourth year at the University of Fuad I, Faculty of Literature, Department of Philosophy where he studied under intellectual titans such as Abdulrahman Badawai,  Zaki Naguib Mahmood, Muhammed Abdul Hadi, Abu Reeda Al-Ahwani, Yusuf Murad, and others.

    Despite all of that, he was disappointed in both universities and said that he wasted four years of his life. From Fuad I he transferred to the Higher Institute of Education and obtained a degree from there. He was awarded a scholarship from the Agency of Islamic Endowments to Study in Paris at the Sorbonne for a doctorate. And so he obtained what he pursued.

    When he returned to his city, he resumed his religious endeavour so he became a preacher, imam, and a speaker in one of its mosques. He then pegged away at academic education and writing scientific and philosophical books and had several works in Arab and Islamic philosophy published recurrently in Beirut and Cairo. After he retired, he devoted himself to writing and research in the various fields of philosophy, literature, and religion.

    But his intellectual life was not without worries and his religious life was not free of doubts. He grew up in a pious devout household; however, there was mystery, trouble, and endless queries in his mind. His mind was raising provocative subjects but his faith was enough to answer every enigma.

    The conflict between science and religion started early with Abbas. A conflict that had no chance to be made public. Had this conflict emerged from the darkness since its inception, he wouldn’t have reached this degree of fervour that is conveyed in this unrivalled book. If he was allowed to express his mind and heart, the result would have been the same but it wouldn’t have been with such intensity and fervour.

    Abbas is not responsible for the rejection of the Quran and the god of the Quran. Neither are the Quran or Allah responsible. It’s all Muslims and particularly the loudmouthed Mufassirun who are responsible for this bizarre Western view of the Quran and the god of the Quran.

    The Muslims have extracted the Quran from its environment and presented it to us as an eternal, divine text that has no relation with the human thought and the circumstances of its origins. Which is the whole problem to Dr. Abbas. He wants nothing but to return back to history. A wonderful text in its time but full with mistakes and misguidances when not in its time.***

    We ask the reader to read slowly in order to judge, to read the suffering of the author, and to let his mind and faith work together. Let the reader know that faith works when the mind is not working but not without it.


    ...
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #62 - April 29, 2010, 10:15 AM

    I found some Muslim websites that refer to the author as mentally ill or non-existent....

    It is pathetic how their denial can reach terrible levels. If he mentally ill, boy what a genius the author was; as he has analyzed the Quran in such a way that it revealed its true nature. And if he is non-existent (the author), then the original writer is a very well educated in the history of the tafseers and Islamic studies..

    ...
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #63 - April 29, 2010, 10:23 AM


    Mental illness is one of the default slurs used against apostates and dissenters from Islam. You hear it quite regularly. Acceptance of Islam is equated with the natural human mode. In this version, Islam is a function of your brain, its synapses and biology.

    Having said that, it makes the death penalty all the more cruel - because they are willing to execute people who are by their own reckoning mentally ill people  Roll Eyes


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #64 - April 29, 2010, 10:24 AM


    Great start, IA, and your translation is smooth and very well done  Afro

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #65 - April 29, 2010, 10:46 AM

    I would suggest to use an "etherpad" to work collaboratively on the translation. The original etherpad.com website is closing down, but the software fortunately is open-source and many clones exist already. We should find one which requires accounts, so that only a particular group may edit the document. But I will also look into installing the software on this server. Could be useful for any other future collaborative projects. Smiley

    German ex-Muslim forumMy YouTubeList of Ex-Muslims
    Wikis: en de fr ar tr
    CEMB-Chat
    I'm on an indefinite break...
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #66 - April 29, 2010, 11:08 AM

    Doesn't google docs work in a similar manner? I think many partners can edit and view a one certain document and have previlage of editing?

    ...
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #67 - April 29, 2010, 11:20 AM

    Doesn't google docs work in a similar manner? I think many partners can edit and view a one certain document and have previlage of editing?


    ...
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #68 - April 29, 2010, 11:38 AM

    Doesn't google docs work in a similar manner? I think many partners can edit and view a one certain document and have previlage of editing?

    True, it does. The only difference is, that etherpad allows you to edit a document in real time with other people, where the changes are seen immediately and they are coloured with the user's unique colour. Use whatever suits you best.

    I said I'll consider installing etherpad myself, but it's not so simple and I give up on that idea. I would recommend to use a free service if you wish to use it.

    And regarding the translation of this book: I think it would be a good idea to also create a proper Arabic script from the images in the PDF. This will be extra work, but the benefits are that the text will be searchable and indexable by Arabic search engines. Smiley

    German ex-Muslim forumMy YouTubeList of Ex-Muslims
    Wikis: en de fr ar tr
    CEMB-Chat
    I'm on an indefinite break...
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #69 - April 29, 2010, 11:47 AM

    I know that there is this "OCR software" that can read English text from images, do you know if there are similar ones for Arabic?

    ...
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #70 - April 29, 2010, 12:06 PM

    Don't know any off the top of my head. We'd need to find one. But I suspect that there won't be a good, free solution. Arabic script is probably harder to recognize by computers than Latin script.

    German ex-Muslim forumMy YouTubeList of Ex-Muslims
    Wikis: en de fr ar tr
    CEMB-Chat
    I'm on an indefinite break...
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #71 - April 29, 2010, 01:51 PM

    Nice work IA  Afro  Can any furture translators here, paste their translated scripts here so we can read it as you go along.

    Thanks for your time guys, its mucho appreciated.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #72 - April 29, 2010, 02:02 PM

    Thanks a lot, IA! That's a really good start.

    As for a platform for collaboration, I really wouldn't mind using Google Docs. I've used it to edit stuff at our student newspaper and it's really efficient. You get to give access to certain people, limit some people to being readers only, and you can choose different colour fonts to distinguish your work. It shows the changes to others as soon as your work is saved, and it occasionally saves automatically. It also has a spell-checker.
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #73 - April 29, 2010, 02:28 PM

    Quote from: alternative translation posted by RIBS
    My plight with the Koran and with God in the Koran version 2 (it's a better version) - Abbas Abdel Nour (Arabic)

    Abbas Abdul Noor, born in Damanhur, a Sunni doctrine. Faqih. Director of hospice. He was sixty-year-old devout Muslim, Imam mosque, a great preacher and writer, poet and explaining the Holy Qur'an, and then after the publication of his book (the Koran with my plight) and became an unbeliever when it was eighty years old, and his book is the most dangerous wrote in atheism.
    He joined the Faculty of religion in the assets of Al-Azhar. And the granting of assistance from the Islamic Waqf, moved to the University of Sorbonne in Paris to attend a doctorate in philosophy of science, philosophy and able to be educated together.
    When he returned to his city became imam and preacher at a mosque, and it has a Dreadlocked, gave them the note of good faith and worship, as a university professor and author of books and many scientific philosophical.
    However, the intellectual life were not without concern or without his religious doubts, it was mind raises thorny issues, and enough faith in the answer to every problem ..
    Science and faith conflict began when Abbas early in the conflict have not had the opportunity to present publicly. If out of the shadows since its inception, had reached that the reduction of violence as expressed in this book, there is a lot like him.

    Note: This book is banned in all Arab and Islamic countries.

    Where did you get this translation RIBS? is it yours? I like the word "plight" better than "ordeal". I also think the word "director" of is more fitting than "chief" which I used. But we shouldn't use "hospice" as it primarily means nursing home. Tekkiye or Khanaqah are better.
    In addition, I think there are a lot of Arab words such as "Faqih" and "Waqf" that should be translated to make it easier for the English reader.

    I notice there are differences and additions in the text like it mentions he became an unbeliever at 80. This isn't mentioned in the file I downloaded. Is this a different version?  if so where did you get it?


    Iraqi Athiest, they talk about a better version. I am not sure if they are talking about this I one I posted. I am not good with torrents, I found sites that have it to download with torrents. And since it was banned, I am not sure if other websites will be talking about it.

    Can you please check?

    I just checked some torrents website and the book is there. The only problem is that all the torrents have 0 seeds. IOW, it's undownloadable.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Billy, IsLame, Abood, thanks guys. I need you to check the grammar in this paragraph (specially the underlined parts):

    Quote
    The conflict between science and religion started early with Abbas. A conflict that had no chance to be made public. Had this conflict emerged from the darkness since its inception, he wouldn’t have reached this degree of fervour that is conveyed in this unrivalled book. If he was allowed to express his mind and heart, the result would have been the same but it wouldn’t have been with such intensity and fervour.


    BTW, I still struggle with if clauses and conditional tenses. Any help? maybe a link from an English learning website?

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Now a couple of corrections:
    1-"Plight" instead of "ordeal". What do you guys think about this one?
    2-"Director" of Khanaqah instead of "chief". (thanks to RIBS)



  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #74 - April 29, 2010, 02:31 PM

    Nice work IA  Afro  Can any furture translators here, paste their translated scripts here so we can read it as you go along.

    Thanks for your time guys, its mucho appreciated.


    I don't think it has been translated anywhere before. I think COEM would be the first to do so, unless we get threats like Southpark guys and that scares us off, it would be good for the forum as an advertisment.  Headsman

    ...
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #75 - April 29, 2010, 02:34 PM

    Where did you get this translation RIBS? is it yours? I like the word "plight" better than "ordeal". I also think the word "director" of is more fitting than "chief" which I used. But we shouldn't use "hospice" as it primarily means nursing home. Tekkiye or Khanaqah are better.
    In addition, I think there are a lot of Arab words such as "Faqih" and "Waqf" that should be translated to make it easier for the English reader.

    I notice there are differences and additions in the text like it mentions he became an unbeliever at 80. This isn't mentioned in the file I downloaded. Is this a different version?  if so where did you get it?

    I just checked some torrents website and the book is there. The only problem is that all the torrents have 0 seeds. IOW, it's undownloadable.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Billy, IsLame, Abood, thanks guys. I need you to check the grammar in this paragraph (specially the underlined parts):

    BTW, I still struggle with if clauses and conditional tenses. Any help? maybe a link from an English learning website?

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Now a couple of corrections:
    1-"Plight" instead of "ordeal". What do you guys think about this one?
    2-"Director" of Khanaqah instead of "chief". (thanks to RIBS)


    No it is not my translation. I got it from this website: CLICK HERE

    ...
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #76 - April 29, 2010, 02:43 PM

    Actually I did not know what plight means before until yesterday. I thought that the Mi7naty (محنتي) means "ORDEAL", but yes I think "plight" is better, unless you have other word to use. What I understand from "Mi7naty" is that he wanted to tell us about the bad experience he faced, hence I thought of the word "ordeal".

    AI, you are doing a great job. As IsLame said, at this stage we needn't worry about the grammer. If we ever finish translating it, we can send for proof reeding and correction by others.  Afro

    ...
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #77 - April 29, 2010, 03:02 PM

    Quote
    The conflict between science and religion started early with Abbas. A conflict that had no chance to be made public. Had this conflict emerged from the darkness since its inception, he wouldn’t have reached this degree of fervour that is conveyed in this unrivalled book. If he was allowed to express his mind and heart, the result would have been the same but it wouldn’t have been with such intensity and fervour.


    BTW, I still struggle with if clauses and conditional tenses. Any help? maybe a link from an English learning website?


    It reads fine to me. I get the sense that Arabic rhetoric and style involves repetition in this passage. These two sentences basically say the same thing:

    "Had this conflict emerged from the darkness since its inception, he wouldn’t have reached this the degree of fervour that is conveyed in this unrivalled book. If he was allowed to express his mind and heart, the result would have been the same but it wouldn’t have been with such intensity and fervour."

    (Just one correction above. I don't think anyone should edit your translations down now. If you can get it translated then others here can make suggestions for the second revision after its been put down in a first English draft. I know lots here will volunteer to give suggestions then, but getting it down on paper first of all is a good thing)

    As for an English learning website, I can't think of one offhand. The best way is just by reading as widely as you can, it will all come to you naturally.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #78 - April 29, 2010, 03:24 PM

    Quote from: Iraqi Atheist
    I notice there are differences and additions in the text like it mentions he became an unbeliever at 80. This isn't mentioned in the file I downloaded. Is this a different version?  if so where did you get it?


    I got it from the introduction somewhere, besides he was born in 1927, so if he is still alive, he should be 83 years old now. so maybe he declared that he is no longer a believer from the age of late 70 to 80 years.

    ...
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #79 - April 29, 2010, 03:46 PM


    The conflict between science and religion started early with Abbas. A conflict that had no chance to be of being made public. Had this conflict emerged from the darkness since its inception, he wouldn’t have reached this degree of fervour that is conveyed in this unrivalled book. If he was allowed to express his mind and heart, the result would have been the same but it wouldn’t have been with such intensity and fervour.

    Quote
    Now a couple of corrections:
    1-"Plight" instead of "ordeal". What do you guys think about this one?
    2-"Director" of Khanaqah instead of "chief". (thanks to RIBS)

    I think you are getting too worried about detail at this stage - think its better to focus energies on getting the bulk translated, then you could always have somebody check & oversee the work done.  These corrections are good, although I agree with what you said about Faqih & Waqf bcos I still have no idea what they mean.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #80 - April 29, 2010, 05:10 PM

    .....I notice there are differences and additions in the text like it mentions he became an unbeliever at 80. This isn't mentioned in the file I downloaded. Is this a different version?  if so where did you get it?......


    I got it from the same website here:

    Quote
    My plight with the Koran and with God in the Koran version 2 (it's a better version) - Abbas Abdel Nour (Arabic)

    Abbas Abdul Noor, born in Damanhur, a Sunni doctrine. Faqih. Director of hospice. He was sixty-year-old devout Muslim, Imam mosque, a great preacher and writer, poet and explaining the Holy Qur'an, and then after the publication of his book (the Koran with my plight) and became an unbeliever when it was eighty years old, and his book is the most dangerous wrote in atheism.
    He joined the Faculty of religion in the assets of Al-Azhar. And the granting of assistance from the Islamic Waqf, moved to the University of Sorbonne in Paris to attend a doctorate in philosophy of science, philosophy and able to be educated together.
    When he returned to his city became imam and preacher at a mosque, and it has a Dreadlocked, gave them the note of good faith and worship, as a university professor and author of books and many scientific philosophical.

    However, the intellectual life were not without concern or without his religious doubts, it was mind raises thorny issues, and enough faith in the answer to every problem ..
    Science and faith conflict began when Abbas early in the conflict have not had the opportunity to present publicly. If out of the shadows since its inception, had reached that the reduction of violence as expressed in this book, there is a lot like him.

    Note: This book is banned in all Arab and Islamic countries.


    ...
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #81 - April 29, 2010, 07:15 PM

    Wow I admire everyone's enthusiasm and it makes me feel bad about being lazy - OK give me a part to translate.
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #82 - April 29, 2010, 07:19 PM

    Tell me what chapter so we don't repeat the same thing.
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #83 - April 29, 2010, 07:38 PM

    I guess it will be chapter 2, as Iraqi Atheist is now translating the first chapter. Right, IA? I wish I could help with chapter 3, but I am not sure I will perfect it. The most difficult part will be when we reach the grammar mistakes in the Quran, and how the tafseer mullahs have been playing with words and attributing those mistakes to new forms of poetry. He says they invented new branches of Arabic poetry just so the Quran would look nice and not out of tune.

    ...
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #84 - April 29, 2010, 07:53 PM

    Would this not be something that Ayaan Hirsi Ali could support? Maybe she could make sure that it gets published and marketed so that people find out about it?

    /Stefan
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #85 - April 29, 2010, 08:09 PM

    I give my emotional support those those brave translators Smiley

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #86 - April 29, 2010, 08:23 PM

    Would this not be something that Ayaan Hirsi Ali could support? Maybe she could make sure that it gets published and marketed so that people find out about it?

    /Stefan


    I am not sure she speaks Arabic!

    ...
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #87 - April 29, 2010, 08:29 PM

    I guess it will be chapter 2, as Iraqi Atheist is now translating the first chapter. Right, IA? I wish I could help with chapter 3, but I am not sure I will perfect it. The most difficult part will be when we reach the grammar mistakes in the Quran, and how the tafseer mullahs have been playing with words and attributing those mistakes to new forms of poetry. He says they invented new branches of Arabic poetry just so the Quran would look nice and not out of tune.


    OK, chapter 2 it is! I will try and make a start tomorrow - will be busy this weekend but will do it whenever I have a moment  Afro
  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #88 - April 29, 2010, 08:38 PM

    Would this not be something that Ayaan Hirsi Ali could support? Maybe she could make sure that it gets published and marketed so that people find out about it?

    /Stefan

    Good idea - even if they dont get involved, they should be made aware of it.  All the big players including Thunderfoot, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Salman Rushdie, ZomitgitCross, Maryam Namazie, Arab Atheists Network, FFI (Ali Sina), etc

    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #89 - April 29, 2010, 08:44 PM

    No problem, RIBS.

    I uploaded the PDF file to our server. The author shouldn't mind, I guess. grin12

    This link doesnt work for me..

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
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